ANTI - WAR Protester

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:53 pm

Web Site " CARRY A BIG STICKER.com "

Theres a guy - business guy selling several anti war items.

He made up a T-shirt with all the casualties of Iraq, 2803 names up to

Ocober 23, 2006.

- its actually cool - I ordered 2, and it lists all the names - T-shirt reads on the front BUSH LIED and THEY DIED on the back, listing all casualties.

This web site has several other items to purchase -

Let me know if you find his web site interesting.

Sorry computer stupid - I don't know how to forward,transfer etc.. you'll have to go directly to the site. It was on the news and may have to discontinue his t-shirts..?? He didn't get permission from all the families.?? I ordered

Enjoy

Patsy

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:38 am

I hope he does have to discontinue the shirts. One reason it's really rude to make money off a fallen soldier's name. And two how's the family to feel to see their son's name on a shirt that's carrying a political message they may not follow.

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:35 am

I hope the families of the fallen sue the man!

I have never hidden the fact that I think that the reasons for going into Iraq were bogus and the true reason has more to do with a personal agenda of the current administration, but never in a million years would I ever support anything that might be seen by our troops and their families as less then supportive of THEM.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:35 pm

Everyone should be very proud of the men and women at war to protect the US.

And I'm sure the families are very proud, nearly 3000 casualties.

This Anti-War guy probably falls between the Freedom of Speech, he'll probably have to discontinue making these T-shirts since he didn't get permission from all the families. Being sued - possible, then the guy can file bankruptcy and no one gets squat.

This web site sells several anti-war items, I ordered 2 t-shirts to keep, not wear, I wanted all the names - and I don't care for Bush, and I don't agree with this war or sending more over to support this war.

The t-shirts are similar to the POW bracelets, to preserve the memory of those who served & sacrificed everything.

Patsy

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:29 pm

Patsy Warnick;514262 wrote: The t-shirts are similar to the POW bracelets, to preserve the memory of those who served & sacrificed everything.
Um, no they're not. Ask a Vietnam Veteran what the POW/MIA issue means to HIM and tell me that statement is even in the same ballpark. This piece of $hit hawker's sole mission is to MAKE MONEY. He spotted a market and he zeroed in. If he was in my presence I'd bitchslap his stupid empty head and then turn him over to the Vets.

And for this whole "war protesting" BS, when....WHEN, for the love of Christ are people going to wake up and realize that the soldiers who fight don't get to discuss, debate argue or even IMPLY disagreement with who and where they fight? It.....is.....their.....JOB, no questions, no arguments.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:39 pm

Babyrider

Sure this guy is a oppertunist - theres several out there.

POW bracelets and this t-shirt that I bought - are similar to me - I still have my POW bracelet and I'll keep this t-shirt as well, right along with the FLAG that drapped my husbands coffin.

My HUSBAND died serving this country - I have asked veterans their opinions.

Patsy

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:46 pm

Every soldier I have ever known would much rather be remembered for the life that he lived and the things that he stood for then be a name on an anti-war t-shirt. And I have known a couple of soldiers - having been born on a military base, served in the military, married to a military man the first time we went into the Middle East and having been the good wife to a man that served in Iraq.

POW bracelets are to remember those who have been taken prisoner and never found. Hardly the same and certainly not even close in comparison.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:38 pm

Patsy Warnick;514356 wrote: Babyrider

Sure this guy is a oppertunist - theres several out there.

POW bracelets and this t-shirt that I bought - are similar to me - I still have my POW bracelet and I'll keep this t-shirt as well, right along with the FLAG that drapped my husbands coffin.

My HUSBAND died serving this country - I have asked veterans their opinions.

Patsy
And you're willingly lining his pockets and putting your money towards his actions. Which shows unequivocal support of those actions. Any Vet I know, be they blood relation or otherwise, wouldn't go near his crap with a ten foot pole. Decent save on the "similar to me" but it has nothing to do with the way the Vets I know think.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:48 pm

Patsy Warnick;514262 wrote: The t-shirts are similar to the POW bracelets, to preserve the memory of those who served & sacrificed everything.

Patsy
POW bracelets are made and worn to honor the names engraved on them. The tiny names on the T-shirt are used as decoration around the huge words "Bush Lied" and "They Died". It's no more honorable than American flag boxer shorts.

The lettering is the same size as that on a penny, for Chrissakes.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:19 pm

I'm a collector of stuff - Political items as well, good, bad & ugly.

Perhaps I shouldn't of used the word "similar". was just a term.

I know what the POW bracelets represent - I had several friends die during that war too.

Patsy

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:25 pm

I'm not seeing the same things most of you are. As far as the shirt goes, if I saw someone wearing it, I'd see all those names and it would make me think. There are human beings for each of those names. There are some people who forget that part. I don't see why it would be seen as a disgrace to have those names on a shirt. I see no difference between that and touching names on a stone wall. Maybe the families didn't give their permission but they gave their sons and daughters for the benefit of our country and hopefully that of others. I'm not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful here, just explaining that I suppose I see a different viewpoint. If I was a Bush supporter I might be offended but since I cannot stomach him, I am not. I see the names are tiny but how else to get all of them on the shirt?

Now I'm going to that website and take a look.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:02 pm

THANK YOU BABY RIDER

Signed

Vietnam veteran who's too damn mad at this thread to speak!!!

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:25 pm

Clint

I wasn't going to reply to this - but what the hell

You are thanking Babyrider for what?

Patsy

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:29 pm

You should go with your first reactions.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:40 pm

Oh, that explains it

Thats like asking your parents why - their reply is "because I said so".

This guy has his site under freedom of speech, and obviously is anti war and anti Bush.

I collect political items - good, bad or otherwise. That doesn't make me a bad person. And what Babyrider states or anyone else about a t-shirt with the casualties, they don't have to buy one.

I don't believe in guns - I don't blast anyone for owning them.

Patsy

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:02 pm

Freedom of speech. The maker of that T shirt should be thanking the people who's names he/she is abusing for political gain and money. They are part of a heritage that has preserved that freedom. I've seen other posts of yours and your anti-war position is clear. You didn't point the people here to that site because you were outraged by it. All I see from you people is that you hate President Bush. You would be happy to see us lose the war just because you want him to look bad. You want the war to stop with or without victory but you don't have a plan to preserve our freedom once you have disgraced us. It doesn't bother you one bit that those who have died will have died for nothing. You somehow think you will be spared by the throat cutters we are fighting against because you showed them your weakness and gave in to them.

I am so angry over this garbage. People who have been quiet until now are begining to wake up. Those of you who pretend to be peaceful to cover your cowardess are going to be surprised when they all wake up. I'm sick of trying to say this stuff in a nice way. I can't stomach cowards.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:18 pm

RedGlitter;514722 wrote: I'm not seeing the same things most of you are. As far as the shirt goes, if I saw someone wearing it, I'd see all those names and it would make me think.

Maybe what people need to think about is that our service people, active and Veterans, are not appreciated. They choose to make their life's work protecting this country and her citizens, at the cost of their own life if that's needed. That number of names or whateverthehell the schmuck put on them won't be remembered and the continually ignorant consumer doesn't even realize the repurcussions of what he is supporting. Some slimeball's retirement fund. It's disgusting. It's revolting. No American worth their salt should condone and add money to this freakin idiots scam. But they do....they always do.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:28 pm

Patsy Warnick;514790 wrote: That doesn't make me a bad person. And what Babyrider states or anyone else about a t-shirt with the casualties, they don't have to buy one.

I don't believe in guns - I don't blast anyone for owning them.

Don't HAVe to buy one? Damn straight I'd never buy one, it's the dumbing down of America that buys into this garbage that pisses me off. Some jackass somewhere wants to whine and **** and moan about BUSH and this is the ugly end result. I hope he looses his ass from the families who will most likely be outraged to have their lost ones paraded around stupid people's backs as an advertisment.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:47 pm

Wow, is it hot in here!

Clint I respectfully ask that you not presume to know what I (I am one of the "you people") feel about this war. What I just took from your remark is that you'd have us all dead if it would save our face. Now I can't believe that you would actually mean that so I am figuring you must have said this in anger.

I also didn't appreciate the comment to Patsy. That was not very charitable.

As for making money off the war and the dea dpeople, how many yellow ribbons and American flag stickers/decals/crap did you buy? Any? Do you think you helped someone make a profit off perhaps, the war and the soldiers over there?

I see no difference in the shirt.

If my father's name was on a shirt for Korean war efforts, I would not be suing anyone. Nor would I be thinking they owed him or me some money.

I would be thinking that maybe just maybe someone would get a damn wake up call out of it.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:00 am

Babyrider - obviously your upset that this guy has the freedom to produce the anti-war & anti-Bush material, as others have the freedom to purchase these items, only in America.

Clint - you do not know where I stand Politically, Several in my family have served to protect this country, my Husband died protecting this country - for your freedom & Babyriders freedom, and mine..

This hostility can't just be over this t-shirt ?? Perhaps Bush's speech the other night? yes.?

One thing I'm not is a coward - Thank You

Patsy

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:26 am

Scrat

I agree - Clint was frustrated & we all should be over this war - Babyrider states buying these shirts & lining this guys pocket . Babyrider & all should be concerned about the billions wasted in this war - they should be concerned about where their tax dollar is going.

Just think what this country could do with those billions to improve this country and everyones welfare - unbelievable.

No they're pissed over the 20.00 bucks I spent to buy a shirt - which has a family member listed on it. - unbelievable.

Everyone should be frustrated.

Clint & Babyrider How the hell do we get out of this war? How do we get these men & women home safe?

Patsy

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:08 am

RedGlitter;514722 wrote: I see no difference between that and touching names on a stone wall. The wall was to honor those who died. The shirt was a dig at Bush. That's the difference, and it is major.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:21 am

Clint;514796 wrote: All I see from you people is that you hate President Bush. Scrat;514901 wrote: You got that right. [pap deleted] Clint wrote: You would be happy to see us lose the war just because you want him to look bad. Squat wrote: Stop listening ... [pap deleted] Clint wrote: You want the war to stop with or without victory but you don't have a plan to preserve our freedom once you have disgraced us. Scroat wrote: [pap deleted]
Clint, I noticed that none of his response disagreed with you at all.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:25 am

Patsy Warnick;514966 wrote: Babyrider - obviously your upset that this guy has the freedom to produce the anti-war & anti-Bush material, as others have the freedom to purchase these items, only in America.I don't think you get it. He has the freedom. He deserves the freedom. It's the way he uses his freedom that's got us angry. We also have the freedom to give voice to that anger.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:30 am

Scrat;514968 wrote: And people wonder why I'm against this war. :-2I'm not sure anyone wonders. You've made it abundantly clear through thousands of posts that you hate America and anything it stands for, and mourn the USSR. You're against the war when it suits you so you can run down America, and cheer the war when it suits you so you can run down America.

No wondering at all here.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:17 am

Accountable;515112 wrote: The wall was to honor those who died. The shirt was a dig at Bush. That's the difference, and it is major.

Ok, let's say it was. What of it? Many people support Bush and many people don't. One side should not overcome the other. And I hope you wouldn't think we should support someone, even our president, when we think he is blatantly wrong...just because he's the president?

Let's say the shirt really was a jab at Bush. So what? Sure they signed up for the miltary but it was Bush who sent them over there. He is as I see it, responsible for their deaths. And now he wants to send more in. We can't get out of this gracefully and more people will die to save face. Is that acceptable?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:42 am

RedGlitter;515164 wrote: Ok, let's say it was. What
I'm glad we agree.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:49 am

Accountable;515191 wrote: I'm glad we agree.

We don't. Seems as if by your edited quotes that you're only seeing what you wish to. This is not conducive to discussion.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:58 am

Patsy Warnick;514977 wrote: Scrat

I agree - Clint was frustrated & we all should be over this war - Babyrider states buying these shirts & lining this guys pocket . Babyrider & all should be concerned about the billions wasted in this war - they should be concerned about where their tax dollar is going.

Just think what this country could do with those billions to improve this country and everyones welfare - unbelievable.

No they're pissed over the 20.00 bucks I spent to buy a shirt - which has a family member listed on it. - unbelievable.

Everyone should be frustrated.

Clint & Babyrider How the hell do we get out of this war? How do we get these men & women home safe?

Patsy

The logic in your statements is so warped and twisted it is impossible for me to respond to. You say you are a patriot then you side with Scrat who is anything but.

How do we get out of this war? We don't. We win it. We get the politics out and stop listing to the fear mongers and take it to the enemy like it's a real war.

I didn't set foot on U.S. soil for three straight years (67-70). I didn't know what the likes of this guy selling T shirts and Scrat were doing back home. I thought I was fighting for my country like my father had. When I returned I was angry and I've been angry every since. You want to do that to another generation of men and women who volunteer to put their lives on the line. If you do, we will never be able to stand for anything again. Maybe that appeals to some but it sure doesn't appeal to me.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:56 am

Scrat;515354 wrote: By the way. Just how do we know we've won? What are the conditions of victory?

Are they even attainable?

What is this "we" stuff? Why don't take off the mask?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:59 am

Scrat;515304 wrote:

Remember that next time you're at the pump you REMF.
REMF?

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:16 am

It's an excellent question---HOW DO WE KNOW WE'VE WON?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:20 am

Clint

You should be happy you made it back to US soil.

This war, although high tech compared to wars in the past, we may have fewer deaths, but the men & women who make it back to the US soil are missing limbs, disfigured.

I see a whole generation on disability and the US out of money to support these men & women who sacrificed everything.

Patsy

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:45 am

Patsy Warnick;514966 wrote: Babyrider - obviously your upset that this guy has the freedom to produce the anti-war & anti-Bush material, as others have the freedom to purchase these items, only in America.

Clint - you do not know where I stand Politically, Several in my family have served to protect this country, my Husband died protecting this country - for your freedom & Babyriders freedom, and mine..

This hostility can't just be over this t-shirt ?? Perhaps Bush's speech the other night? yes.?

One thing I'm not is a coward - Thank You

Patsy
Well you're wrong yet again. Your neat, packaged, erroneous assumptions of what upsets me show me that you don't pay a bit of atention to what I'm saying. It also says, "I have my own ideas, don't confuse me with the facts." You want fact? Here's one, a direct, verbatim quote from a Vietnam Veteran about your POS:

He's lying through his teeth and exploiting the sacrifice of our troops for the sake of money. This is a piece of $hit whom I would have to look at as beneath my notice, else I would certainly knock every tooth in his head down his throat; which would, of course, make him a martyr and advance his bull$hit cause all the further...

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:36 am

We'll know we have victory when (not a complete list):

People stop bombing themselves and everyone around them no matter if they are innocent or not just because things aren't going thier way.

It's okay to ask someone to join you in your faith but it isn't okay to demand they do or die.

You can get on an airplane and only wonder if it will have a mechanical failure.

The people of Iraq are sharing in its wealth.

Iraq is sharing its wealth with the world.

We can leave and know that there won't be the slaughter that occured when we left Vietnam.

The government of Iraq is able to maintain order (peace is an individual state of mind)

Most of the above is happening and we can see the rest will follow.

Winning to we Americans is what happens in a game. This can't be compared to a game...it isn't even close. Too many see it as a game you can just say we've had enough of, throw our hands in the air and go home from, only concerned that the record book will show a loss on our side.

I'm beyond wondering if we should be there or not. It doesn't matter anymore. The reality is that we are there and we have started a job that has to be finished. If it isn't, what will follow will be so much worse than what is going on now even Scrat will say we should have stayed to finish. It isn't going to be over in the time it takes to watch the evening news. This is something that will take decades fighting an enemy willing to fight for centuries.

We can't continue to fight an enemy that wants to kill millions of men, women and children like we are police in a domestic dispute. We have to be able to take them out and the people who allow them to exist in their midst. Ugly indeed, but war isn't pretty.

And finially, Patsy...don't tell me how I should feel about an experience I had unless you shared in the same experience. You and those who share your views presume too much. The idea that I only have the right to be angry and speak as a vet is if I didn't make it back...sheesh.

How dare you imply that those who have sacrificed in this war have done it for nothing then worry about the money they may get instead of you?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:41 am

Babyrider

I was listening - your wrong

Verbatim quote: Damn straight - I'd never buy one, this kind of garbage pisses me off.

Scrat - I read where the facilities are already running out of room for rehab etc., and can't build fast enough to cope.

I know your area very well - my husband was stationed at Ft. Lewis and I from Tacoma.

Patsy

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:44 am

Scrat;515438 wrote: He's a true spirited American. The making of money has no relation to morals in any way shape or form.

Just ask Dick Cheney.

This man is what the Vietnam veterans fought for!!!

The American way.

They need to stop whining about it and go fall asleep at a traffic light.

You are absolutely out to lunch. No one fought for Dick Cheney and I doubt he would ever want them to. We fight for our country.

If you hate Americans so much go where there aren't any.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:55 am

Patsy Warnick;514966 wrote:

One thing I'm not is a coward - Thank You

Patsy

^

l

l

Thats true. See, she uses her real name as her username and doesnt hide under a fake one.

Thats what she said to me anyway.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:55 am

Clint

I'm not telling you how to feel - you stated your angry - I stated be thankful you made it back, Thousands didn't make it back to US soil. And those who made it back have a terrible state of mind.

Unfortunately we maybe in a war we can't win. Wheres the US state of mind then?

This generation fighting in this war will be a disability generation - where do you suppose the US comes up with the money to support that? We can't get our budget under control now - Medicare is a mess - yet we're spending billions on this war.

Patsy