The world influences us in many ways.
Sometimes in large ways, we are swayed by a political movement such as war. War is never black and white. There are too many variables. too much at stake, human lives will be lost. War costs in all ways. The politicians tell us we will conquer evil, we will spread democracy throughout the world. We will free the masses from tyranny. So we cheer on our troops and wave our flags.
Sometimes the world influences us in small ways.
The media for example taunts us with shiny things will improve our lives. Luxury cars that will make us feel good about ourselves. Exercise machines that will makes us look good. Perfumes and colognes that will attract the opposite sex and empower us with sultry sexuality.
How do you come to the conclusion that you have made the right choice ?
Or more often do you allow yourself to be shuttled here then there because thats the way the crowd is moving.
When you declare yourself pro choice or anti war how difficult is it coming to that conclusion ?
Shouldnt the decisions we make about our lives be painful ones ?
How far do we stretch ourselves in determining what type of men/women we are ?
How do you know when you're right ?
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Nomad;510649 wrote: How do you know when you're right ?
How do you know if you're not?
It's question of individual morality.
How do you know if you're not?
It's question of individual morality.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
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RedGlitter
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How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
What's in your heart, Nomad?
That's the first place I look.
Like the Buddhist t-shirt says "Inquire Within."
That's the first place I look.
Like the Buddhist t-shirt says "Inquire Within."
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
RedGlitter;510761 wrote: What's in your heart, Nomad?
That's the first place I look.
Like the Buddhist t-shirt says "Inquire Within."
What she said. :guitarist
But sometimes it's called the gut.
That's the first place I look.
Like the Buddhist t-shirt says "Inquire Within."
What she said. :guitarist
But sometimes it's called the gut.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
I am with Red on this one Nomad,
go with your heart, go with what feels good to you, and for you, (as long as it does not hurt others)
Live for yourself, not in an evil greedy way, but in a way that fortifies and fullfils you.
go with your heart, go with what feels good to you, and for you, (as long as it does not hurt others)
Live for yourself, not in an evil greedy way, but in a way that fortifies and fullfils you.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
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chonsigirl
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How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
We can only take the best guess, and try to know when it is right. Yes, we sometimes flub it, but it is a life learning experience.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
chonsigirl;510811 wrote: We can only take the best guess, and try to know when it is right. Yes, we sometimes flub it, but it is a life learning experience.
you got it CG, once is a mistake you better learn something from it
twice is stupidity, you didn't learn a darn thing
you got it CG, once is a mistake you better learn something from it
twice is stupidity, you didn't learn a darn thing
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
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Tater Tazz
- Posts: 2938
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:25 am
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
We learn from our mistakes.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
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How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Nomad;510649 wrote: How do you come to the conclusion that you have made the right choice ?
Or more often do you allow yourself to be shuttled here then there because thats the way the crowd is moving.
When you declare yourself pro choice or anti war how difficult is it coming to that conclusion ?I open myself up to challenge, and I challenge myself, on my chosen ideals. If the are the right ones, I figure they will withstand any challenge. If they don't, then I need to examine why and make adjustments.
Nomad wrote: Shouldnt the decisions we make about our lives be painful ones ?I don't know about painful, but they should definitely be deliberate. No one over twenty years old should rely on the old crutch "that's just the way I was raised." Parents ideals are given to you until you can form your own. Hopefully, examining the ideals you were raised with will make sense when dragged out into the bright sunlight. If not, figuring out why is the first step in forming your own ideals.
Nomad wrote: How far do we stretch ourselves in determining what type of men/women we are ?
How do you know when you're right ?
Know? I'm not sure we ever really know. Like Chonsi said, best choice. If you meet someone who knows they are right in this context, keep a grain of salt handy. Listen to me. I know.
Or more often do you allow yourself to be shuttled here then there because thats the way the crowd is moving.
When you declare yourself pro choice or anti war how difficult is it coming to that conclusion ?I open myself up to challenge, and I challenge myself, on my chosen ideals. If the are the right ones, I figure they will withstand any challenge. If they don't, then I need to examine why and make adjustments.
Nomad wrote: Shouldnt the decisions we make about our lives be painful ones ?I don't know about painful, but they should definitely be deliberate. No one over twenty years old should rely on the old crutch "that's just the way I was raised." Parents ideals are given to you until you can form your own. Hopefully, examining the ideals you were raised with will make sense when dragged out into the bright sunlight. If not, figuring out why is the first step in forming your own ideals.
Nomad wrote: How far do we stretch ourselves in determining what type of men/women we are ?
How do you know when you're right ?
Know? I'm not sure we ever really know. Like Chonsi said, best choice. If you meet someone who knows they are right in this context, keep a grain of salt handy. Listen to me. I know.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Ask your wife 
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
buttercup;511116 wrote: Ask your wife
.:p.
.:p.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Nomad;510649 wrote:
How do you come to the conclusion that you have made the right choice ?
Or more often do you allow yourself to be shuttled here then there because thats the way the crowd is moving.
When you declare yourself pro choice or anti war how difficult is it coming to that conclusion ?
Shouldnt the decisions we make about our lives be painful ones ?
How far do we stretch ourselves in determining what type of men/women we are ?
How do you know when you're right ?
Beyond going with your heart I believe that it is incumbent on us all to dig beneath the information we are given by the politicians and the media and find out "the truth"* for ourselves before we come to a decision.
* I recognise that the truth does not exist but we are fed so much BS that we cannot just take it on face value. At least if we dig for ourselves we have a fighting chance of making a rational decision rather than being manipulated into doing what "they" want.
How do you come to the conclusion that you have made the right choice ?
Or more often do you allow yourself to be shuttled here then there because thats the way the crowd is moving.
When you declare yourself pro choice or anti war how difficult is it coming to that conclusion ?
Shouldnt the decisions we make about our lives be painful ones ?
How far do we stretch ourselves in determining what type of men/women we are ?
How do you know when you're right ?
Beyond going with your heart I believe that it is incumbent on us all to dig beneath the information we are given by the politicians and the media and find out "the truth"* for ourselves before we come to a decision.
* I recognise that the truth does not exist but we are fed so much BS that we cannot just take it on face value. At least if we dig for ourselves we have a fighting chance of making a rational decision rather than being manipulated into doing what "they" want.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
The great Sir Karl Popper would say that we know we are right until we are proven to be wrong. We cannot prove a proposition to be right but we can prove a proposition to be wrong.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Funny thing........I normally ask myself what the negatives are about the decisions I make or am about to make...if there are none or they can be overcome, then I guess I'm doing the RIGHT thing....life's never simple though because more often than not, the decisions you make have to take into consideration others around you.....what's right for YOU may not be too pleasing for THEM....that's where compromise creeps in.
Good thread Nomad and good answers from the 'Garden Folks'.
Good thread Nomad and good answers from the 'Garden Folks'.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
If you are never completely sure of your rightness, You never feel as bad when you are proven wrong.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Diuretic;511727 wrote: I still can't get my head around that falsifiability thing, no matter how hard I try. I do remember the if you see a black swan then the statement, "all swans are white" must be false. How that translates into everything else I haven't a clue.
But if the proposition is "Black swans exist" then the sighting of a black swan proves it to be true.
If you can prove a proposition to be false then you can always prove an inverse proposition to be true.
But if the proposition is "Black swans exist" then the sighting of a black swan proves it to be true.
If you can prove a proposition to be false then you can always prove an inverse proposition to be true.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
somehow I don't think this is helping. :wah:
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Diuretic;511843 wrote: That's where I get all confused. If I suggest that black swans exist but I've never seen one then I'm making an empty assertion until I can prove they exist, then my statement becomes the truth. That makes intuitive sense to me.
But it's Popper's falsifiability thing that really does me over. If it can't be falsified then it's true? Or is it that if you can falsify it then it's true. See what I mean? All I know is I haven't a clue.
OK. I've gone and looked at Falsifiability and what it appears to be saying is no axioms allowed. That is, every statement must be capable of being falsified if it to be considered to be anything other than an act of faith.
You cannot say all of the swans we have observed have been white therefore all swans are white without admitting that the existance of a black swan falsifies the belief. Any statement that is phrased in such a way as to not admit a falsification cannot be accepted as scientific and that any scientific theory is only accepted until one of the statements has been shown to be false. Therefore, no theory is provable absolutely, you can only posit a thoery until it is proven false.
All of this is fair enough in an absolute sense but, in practice, some statements have been posited and accepted for so long that they are considered to be axiomatic. Also, some statements such as "swans come in a variety of colours" are demonstrably provable so I'd say that this is one for the purists only.
But it's Popper's falsifiability thing that really does me over. If it can't be falsified then it's true? Or is it that if you can falsify it then it's true. See what I mean? All I know is I haven't a clue.
OK. I've gone and looked at Falsifiability and what it appears to be saying is no axioms allowed. That is, every statement must be capable of being falsified if it to be considered to be anything other than an act of faith.
You cannot say all of the swans we have observed have been white therefore all swans are white without admitting that the existance of a black swan falsifies the belief. Any statement that is phrased in such a way as to not admit a falsification cannot be accepted as scientific and that any scientific theory is only accepted until one of the statements has been shown to be false. Therefore, no theory is provable absolutely, you can only posit a thoery until it is proven false.
All of this is fair enough in an absolute sense but, in practice, some statements have been posited and accepted for so long that they are considered to be axiomatic. Also, some statements such as "swans come in a variety of colours" are demonstrably provable so I'd say that this is one for the purists only.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
I think the important aspect of Popper's claim about falsafiability is to show that nothing regarding facts can be proven to be true. The best a human mind can do is to prove something is false. This is what Kant has taught us. Human reason cannot find Truth in matters of fact.
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Accountable
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How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
coberst;512193 wrote: I think the important aspect of Popper's claim about falsafiability is to show that nothing regarding facts can be proven to be true. The best a human mind can do is to prove something is false. This is what Kant has taught us. Human reason cannot find Truth in matters of fact.
So truth lies only in matters of faith? Interesting.
So truth lies only in matters of faith? Interesting.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Truth is a consensus view taken from the unfalsified set containing ideas which may be true. Some of those ideas are so widely accepted that they're regarded, without logical foundation, as absolute truths. Some are mutually exclusive while still each being unfalsified and this leads to argument and conflict. All that can be done with such conflicts, in the absence of falsifiability, is to make the consequence of one or other of the ideas sufficiently unpalatable that the consensus swings away from it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
I think I've got a good summary of what spot just said:
To establish "rightness" one must first look to establish what is false or "wrong". If you start with a handful of possibilities, you must eliminate the false from the handful - some are easy to identify, some are not - until you are left with, hopefully, one remaining possibility which can then be deemed "right". If there is more than one possibility remaining then you look to the consequences of following each in turn and decide which has the most rewarding outcome.
To establish "rightness" one must first look to establish what is false or "wrong". If you start with a handful of possibilities, you must eliminate the false from the handful - some are easy to identify, some are not - until you are left with, hopefully, one remaining possibility which can then be deemed "right". If there is more than one possibility remaining then you look to the consequences of following each in turn and decide which has the most rewarding outcome.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
coberst;512193 wrote: I think the important aspect of Popper's claim about falsafiability is to show that nothing regarding facts can be proven to be true. The best a human mind can do is to prove something is false. This is what Kant has taught us. Human reason cannot find Truth in matters of fact.
Where does "this swan is white" fit in. Unless you go with I think therefore I am as the only known fact then that fact is provable. If you do go with I think therefore I am as the only known fact then you cannot prove it false.
Got there. It is always possible that, although the swan has every appearance of being white someone will come along later with a new solvent and wash the paint off showing it to be a black swan.
I agree with Diuretic, Philosophy does your head in.
Where does "this swan is white" fit in. Unless you go with I think therefore I am as the only known fact then that fact is provable. If you do go with I think therefore I am as the only known fact then you cannot prove it false.
Got there. It is always possible that, although the swan has every appearance of being white someone will come along later with a new solvent and wash the paint off showing it to be a black swan.
I agree with Diuretic, Philosophy does your head in.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
Bryn Mawr;512740 wrote: Where does "this swan is white" fit in."This swan is white" is an absolute truth formed from a definition. You define white, you find an instance that adheres to the definition and hey presto you have a definitive example of truth. It's not an instance of the sort of truth under discussion.
The sort of truth under discussion is "swans are white" and there's people who've seen hundreds of white swans and never seen a black swan who might think it true. The truth is provisional on a black swan not turning up in the future. A black swan, if and when it shows up, falsifies the proposition and makes it false for all time.
When you get away from swans and into rather more abstract propositions things get argumentative. You'll have noticed that, presumably. Anyway, it gives different qualities and powers to "true" and "false" even though at first sight they seem equally powerful.
The sort of truth under discussion is "swans are white" and there's people who've seen hundreds of white swans and never seen a black swan who might think it true. The truth is provisional on a black swan not turning up in the future. A black swan, if and when it shows up, falsifies the proposition and makes it false for all time.
When you get away from swans and into rather more abstract propositions things get argumentative. You'll have noticed that, presumably. Anyway, it gives different qualities and powers to "true" and "false" even though at first sight they seem equally powerful.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
When physicists began to examine the internal operations of the atom early in the 20th century it became obvious that the world inside the atom was a far different kind if world than we live in. Things happen in the inner world of the atom that is completely unbelievable in our world.
When we attempt to comprehend our world through philosophy we will be examining a world that is different from our common sense world. We must be prepared to hold in abeyance our common sense comprehension of reality before we can comprehend reality exposed through the discipline of philosophy. Philosophy takes an entirely different perspective of reality than does our common sense perception.
When we attempt to comprehend our world through philosophy we will be examining a world that is different from our common sense world. We must be prepared to hold in abeyance our common sense comprehension of reality before we can comprehend reality exposed through the discipline of philosophy. Philosophy takes an entirely different perspective of reality than does our common sense perception.
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Accountable
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
So, Nomad. Aren't you glad you asked? 
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
when everybody else around me is mad....then i am probably right.....:p
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
I like your description Koan and Guppy has it nailed as well. :-6 Good work ladies.
Posted by Koan:
[QUOTE]I think I've got a good summary of what spot just said:
To establish "rightness" one must first look to establish what is false or "wrong". If you start with a handful of possibilities, you must eliminate the false from the handful - some are easy to identify, some are not - until you are left with, hopefully, one remaining possibility which can then be deemed "right". If there is more than one possibility remaining then you look to the consequences of following each in turn and decide which has the most rewarding outcome.
Posted by Guppy:
[QUOTE]when everybody else around me is mad....then i am probably right.....[/QUOTE]
Posted by Koan:
[QUOTE]I think I've got a good summary of what spot just said:
To establish "rightness" one must first look to establish what is false or "wrong". If you start with a handful of possibilities, you must eliminate the false from the handful - some are easy to identify, some are not - until you are left with, hopefully, one remaining possibility which can then be deemed "right". If there is more than one possibility remaining then you look to the consequences of following each in turn and decide which has the most rewarding outcome.
Posted by Guppy:
[QUOTE]when everybody else around me is mad....then i am probably right.....[/QUOTE]
ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
How Do We Know When We Are Right ?
spot;512776 wrote: "This swan is white" is an absolute truth formed from a definition. You define white, you find an instance that adheres to the definition and hey presto you have a definitive example of truth. It's not an instance of the sort of truth under discussion.
The sort of truth under discussion is "swans are white" and there's people who've seen hundreds of white swans and never seen a black swan who might think it true. The truth is provisional on a black swan not turning up in the future. A black swan, if and when it shows up, falsifies the proposition and makes it false for all time.
When you get away from swans and into rather more abstract propositions things get argumentative. You'll have noticed that, presumably. Anyway, it gives different qualities and powers to "true" and "false" even though at first sight they seem equally powerful.
But if you allow elementary items to be absolute truths then you can build up complex arguments from those absolute truths and that is what the theory does not allow - complex arguments that are absolutely verifiable.
By implication it must also disallow elemenary items to be absolute truths which is where my question originated.
Personally, I think it's going too far and that certain fudamental facts *are* so evedent and verifiable (assuming that you don't go back to I think therefore I am) as to be axiomatic.
The sort of truth under discussion is "swans are white" and there's people who've seen hundreds of white swans and never seen a black swan who might think it true. The truth is provisional on a black swan not turning up in the future. A black swan, if and when it shows up, falsifies the proposition and makes it false for all time.
When you get away from swans and into rather more abstract propositions things get argumentative. You'll have noticed that, presumably. Anyway, it gives different qualities and powers to "true" and "false" even though at first sight they seem equally powerful.
But if you allow elementary items to be absolute truths then you can build up complex arguments from those absolute truths and that is what the theory does not allow - complex arguments that are absolutely verifiable.
By implication it must also disallow elemenary items to be absolute truths which is where my question originated.
Personally, I think it's going too far and that certain fudamental facts *are* so evedent and verifiable (assuming that you don't go back to I think therefore I am) as to be axiomatic.