The Other White Meat

Little Chamonix · Post by **Little Chamonix** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:03 am

Hi, it's been a while since I've been here but I think it would be a good place to bring this up. I've been travelling the world something most of this great country doesn't do even though we have such an affect on the globe.

However, while away something happened that gave me a serious dillema now I'm home: In Korea they eat dog meat.

I imagine most people who are reading this have gagged slightly at the thought of eating mans best friend (although men are stupid and who wants to be their friend?), I know I was. Despite this I thought it was important to imerse myself in the culture of where I was visiting and I found that dogs for eating are humanely farmed specifically for food much like chickens and cattle.

Aware of this fact I attended the Dog meat festival, the first thing to hit me was the smell, it was like the nicest grilled bacon you've ever had and as a result I tried some. I would decribe it as firm textured and slightly spicy with a salty aftertaste. Something I had initially reviled was fast becoming a favorite food and I ate dog on many more occasions while travelling.

I've been home for a month now and have the following quandry: would it be ethical of me to buy dog here with the express intention of eating it, or should I try and use rescue dogs? I believe younger dogs (less than 8 months) give the most tender meat so I'm not sure there would be any rescue dogs of this age.

Thanks for your time and open mindedness.

Daisy.

caesar777 · Post by **caesar777** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:10 am

I see no difference in eating dog, cow, pig, sheep or horse. It's only culturally unacceptable to most, as eating pig is to Jews and Muslims.

I myself am vegetarian.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:12 am

Well, people keep chickens and eat them, some still slaughter cows.

Sorry, chonsi, but some kill their rabbits as well.

Perhaps if you rescued two and bred them you'd not be having to deal with the dilemma over and over. Just breed your own supply. :guitarist

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:12 am

Thank you for posting this Daisy, your open expression on the subject is both brave and welcome.

My own opinion is that it would save much needless hardship and expense if unwanted pets were available for purchase with such an end in mind. Actually breeding dogs for consumption would require a shift in national culture, but consumption of animals which are otherwise unwanted sounds very sensible.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:13 am

Little Chamonix;484644 wrote: I've been home for a month now and have the following quandry: would it be ethical of me to buy dog here with the express intention of eating it, or should I try and use rescue dogs? I believe younger dogs (less than 8 months) give the most tender meat so I'm not sure there would be any rescue dogs of this age.

Thanks for your time and open mindedness.

Daisy.

You make your own decisions based on your own code of conduct. Trip trap trip

trap. Try Big Billy Goat Gruff, instead.

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:17 am

Being a dog lover, I myself was gagging also. We are brought up in the culture of dogs being pets, not the main course for dinner.

I agree with Snooze, if you are going to do it, that of course is your business. I would prefer not to know about it.

I would go with the dog rescue mission instead of raising them to eat them, as already mentioned it is against the law. I know alot of people that are in animal rescue and I admire them for their love for animals that are mistreated. Most of my dogs and cats I've had through the years are rescue.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:22 am

Dog meat legal, health inspector says

Last Updated: Friday, November 7, 2003 | 1:56 PM ET

CBC News

It isn't illegal to sell and eat the meat of dogs and other canines, as long as it's been inspected, an Alberta health inspector says.

On Monday, the skinned and gutted carcasses of four canines were found in the freezer of the Panda Garden restaurant.

* FROM NOV. 5, 2003: Ready-to-cook canines at Edmonton restaurant

While it raised some eyebrows, the Capital Health Authority's Nelson Fok said it's legal.

"To be available to serve in a restaurant and for the public, the meat has to be inspected," Fok said.

"That would mean involving Alberta Agriculture or the federal inspectors to be at the site where the animal will be killed and gutted and making sure the animal does not have any disease that can be passed on to humans," he said.

Officials still aren't sure whether the animals were dogs or coyotes.

source

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:32 am

Little Chamonix;484644 wrote: Hi, it's been a while since I've been here but I think it would be a good place to bring this up. I've been travelling the world something most of this great country doesn't do even though we have such an affect on the globe.

However, while away something happened that gave me a serious dillema now I'm home: In Korea they eat dog meat.

I imagine most people who are reading this have gagged slightly at the thought of eating mans best friend (although men are stupid and who wants to be their friend?), I know I was. Despite this I thought it was important to imerse myself in the culture of where I was visiting and I found that dogs for eating are humanely farmed specifically for food much like chickens and cattle.

Aware of this fact I attended the Dog meat festival, the first thing to hit me was the smell, it was like the nicest grilled bacon you've ever had and as a result I tried some. I would decribe it as firm textured and slightly spicy with a salty aftertaste. Something I had initially reviled was fast becoming a favorite food and I ate dog on many more occasions while travelling.

I've been home for a month now and have the following quandry: would it be ethical of me to buy dog here with the express intention of eating it, or should I try and use rescue dogs? I believe younger dogs (less than 8 months) give the most tender meat so I'm not sure there would be any rescue dogs of this age.

Thanks for your time and open mindedness.

Daisy.
Do I detect a little mischievous tilt to this post? :sneaky:

I've been to Korea and ate dog. I thought it was great! I don't know that eating dog is illegal in the States, but you can bet your last dollar your neighbors think it is. Would eating the meat be worth the hassle?

The spicy & salty taste was just that: spice and salt. You can flavor beef or pork to taste close enough to dog to satisfy. I wouldn't recommend rescuing a dog for supper unless you are an expert on those farm-raised ones in Korea. What the animal eats affects the flavor of the meat, so at best it's a crapshoot.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:37 am

My open minded reply is this: I sincerely hope you're joking.

While in Rome, you may do as the Romans do (or the Koreans in your case) in America we don't eat dogs and cats. If youw ant todo that, go over there and maybe research a little more on the inhumane methods they use of slaughtering them, such as skinning them alive. If you didn't see that then you have been mislead.

Eating any animal is unethical by the standards of many but not all. No, I would suggest you not use rescued dogs for your deed. I am in rescue and if you ever ate one of my dogs, I would hunt you down. Unequivocally. So, no I don't agree that it's your own business what you eat when it comes to dogs. They are loyal, faithful, intelligent and exist domestically to be loved, not consumed. I suggest if you really want to eat a dog, that you go back where they do that kind of terrible thing.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:44 am

SnoozeControl;484669 wrote: I doubt 'eating' it is illegal, it's the manner in which you acquire the meat that most likely would be.It's a very culture-biased question, eating animals that some sections of society consider to be pets. WASP (is that a disallowed term nowadays? What's the replacement?) consumption of pigeon, turtle, pig or rabbit goes on regardless of the sensibilities of those who keep them as pets in their homes. What's so different about eating dog or cat, given that some cultures find it acceptable in exactly the same way.Marshall Sahlins, in the book Culture and Practical Reason, says people equate dogs with themselves because dogs "climb upon chairs designed for humans, sleep in people's beds and sit at tables after their own fashion awaiting their share of the family meal." They're given names, too, and it all adds up to "metaphorical cannibalism" if we were to chow down on a chow.

There's no law against eating dog. Congress, Torpoco notes, "defined 'food' in the federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act as 'articles used as food,'" which is a pretty broad description.

"Terms such as 'fit for human consumption,"edible' and 'filthy' are meaningless absent a cultural context," he writes.

Houston Press (Texas) February 3, 2005, "The Fido Solution"There are a few local State laws but it's not anything like a national ban.Two Cambodian refugees in Long Beach were prosecuted in March after killing a German shepherd dog for food. The case was dismissed after a judge ruled that there was no law against eating dogs and that the animal had not been killed in an inhumane manner.

The incident, coupled with unsubstantiated but persistent rumors of dog hunting in Golden Gate Park, caused enough alarm to prompt Assemblywoman Jackie Speier, a Democrat from South San Francisco, to sponsor legislation making it a misdemeanor to possess, sell or give away for the sole purpose of killing for food any animal ''commonly kept as a pet or companion.''

The Legislature approved the measure last month, and it will go into effect Jan. 1. Violators could receive up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. Livestock, poultry, fish and game are exempted.

Joseph Beason, a lawyer from Long Beach who represented one of the defendants in the case last March, said the men had ''no concept they had done anything wrong.''

The New York Times October 5, 1989

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:54 am

I googled, but don't have time to sift through the strident blogs & such of the vegan extremists. Anyone find a disinterested report of how the dogs are slaughtered & prepared?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:59 am

I don't have the time to look up a report this minute but you may check Peta and the ASPCA and HSUS for starters. I understand it is common to burn off the hair while the dogs are strung upside down and still alive, then to skin them. I've seen footage of it in a documentary but it was some years back so I haven't the name, sorry. My dad was in Korea and can testify to the method as well. He said it was horrific.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:00 am

Accountable;484665 wrote: Do I detect a little mischievous tilt to this post? :sneaky:

I think someone is trying to raise our ire this morning . . . I for one am not going for it :-6

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:15 am

Accountable;484695 wrote: I googled, but don't have time to sift through the strident blogs & such of the vegan extremists. Anyone find a disinterested report of how the dogs are slaughtered & prepared?
Arguably, governmental bodies such as the FDA already possess the requisite statutory authority to prohibit the sale of certain foods. First, such prohibitions arguably would not be beyond the FDA's mission--to ensure that food is "safe, pure, and wholesome."73 As previously noted, terms such as "wholesome" are subject to open interpretation. In addition, the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act prohibits the sale of adulterated foods; the statute defines "adulterated foods,"

Animal food products are subject to specific regulatory requirements under existing law. Meat, for example, is regulated by the USDA under the Federal Meat Inspection Act. But although manufacturers of food products must comply with regulations governing the slaughter of animals and their processing, few restrictions exist that prevent manufacturers from exploiting specific sources of meat.

The sale and consumption of human flesh is a notable exception, however.

For a concise statement of the FDA's mission with respect to food, see S. Rep. No. 101-84 (1989) which are defined under the Act as any food that "consists in whole or in part of any filthy ... substance, or ... is otherwise unfit for food." Again, terms such as "fit for human consumption", "edible," and "filthy" are subject to open interpretation. Moreover, the courts have held that, under existing law, sterilized filth, although harmless, may be prohibited by the FDA on aesthetic grounds alone. Given that current law enables the FDA to prohibit the sale of sterilized filth on aesthetic grounds alone, the FDA could conceivably ban the sale of certain items, such as rat meat, as filth per se, however sanitary or nutritional such a product might be.

http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/172/etorpoco.html "Explanations for Human Food Preferences and Implications for Government Regulation", Edward A. Torpoco, Food and Drug Law Paper, January 25, 1997

venus · Post by **venus** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:20 am

RedGlitter;484668 wrote: My open minded reply is this: I sincerely hope you're joking.

While in Rome, you may do as the Romans do (or the Koreans in your case) in America we don't eat dogs and cats. If youw ant todo that, go over there and maybe research a little more on the inhumane methods they use of slaughtering them, such as skinning them alive. If you didn't see that then you have been mislead.

Eating any animal is unethical by the standards of many but not all. No, I would suggest you not use rescued dogs for your deed. I am in rescue and if you ever ate one of my dogs, I would hunt you down. Unequivocally. So, no I don't agree that it's your own business what you eat when it comes to dogs. They are loyal, faithful, intelligent and exist domestically to be loved, not consumed. I suggest if you really want to eat a dog, that you go back where they do that kind of terrible thing.

well to save me typing for hours about what l would really like to say l will just agree with red..that way l will not get banned!!:mad:

I love ascii · Post by **I love ascii** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:34 am

I can't understand the opposition to this.

I mean you don't protest against cows or pigs being eaten. and they are very friendly.

Is it just that dogs don't taste nice? because if they did then everyone would be eating them.

Just think

'Now't like a good dog butty'

caesar777 · Post by **caesar777** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:37 am

I love ascii;484746 wrote: I can't understand the opposition to this.

I mean you don't protest against cows or pigs being eaten. and they are very friendly.

Is it just that dogs don't taste nice? because if they did then everyone would be eating them.

Just think

'Now't like a good dog butty'

Hear! Hear!

Little Chamonix · Post by **Little Chamonix** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:50 am

Thank you for the replies, I'm glad that in general people on here are as open minded as I believed. I know I'm a very infrequent user of this website but I do value the opinions of the members.

Bill Sikes, I'm talking about dog not goats but I do have a good recipe for Jerk goat if you want?

Accountable, I think you're correct I am a dog lover too and maybe farming my own would be better as I could give it the best life possible.

As to the slaughter I think I'd be best just shooting it, a quick painless kill makes the meat less tough, this would be prefferable to say the struggle if I drowned the animal like you do with cats.

Red Glitter, plase take a suggestion and if this others you that much don't post such vitriol. Other members have replied snsibly so why can't you?

Ceaser777 and I love ascii, please don't be so frivilous I'm trying to stimlate adult debae as well as getting an answer to my problem.

A further question is if I buy the dogs from a pet shop then they aren't classed as meat, surely if I decide to eat them or breed them for food it's similar to me purchasing an apple tree and eating the apples?

Thanks again,

Daisy

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:53 am

There must be other choices of meat? Do you have to eat Dog? I've never been to Korea, nor do I desire to go - Is it tradition to eat dog as US eats Turkey for Thanksgiving? It's early here in the US - Are you sleep walking?

Patsy

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:55 am

Little Chamonix;484766 wrote: A further question is if I buy the dogs from a pet shop then they aren't classed as meat, surely if I decide to eat them or breed them for food it's similar to me purchasing an apple tree and eating the apples?
Why would you think that???

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:55 am

In one of Michael Moore's films "Roger and Me" (?) one of the local women was breeding and selling rabbits. The sign out front said "Rabbit. Pets or Meat". He interviews her a couple of time, fascinated by how people were surviving the poverty after factory closures.

She got shut down at the end by the inspectors. Someone reported her and they said her slaughter area wasn't up to standard. She needed proper steel counters etc.

If just for your own consumption, I don't think the rules apply but you could definitely find yourself in trouble if you tried selling it to anyone.

Not that I think you are going to.

It's just interesting from a legal perspective.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:59 am

If eating dog is a custom in Korea - you would need to buy dog from a reputable farmer - or butcher. Pet stores sell exactly that pets as nurserys sell plants.

Perhaps Korea has dog in their grocery stores - meat dept.

Patsy

Little Chamonix · Post by **Little Chamonix** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:04 am

Patsy Warnick;484768 wrote: There must be other choices of meat? Do you have to eat Dog? I've never been to Korea, nor do I desire to go - Is it tradition to eat dog as US eats Turkey for Thanksgiving? It's early here in the US - Are you sleep walking?

Patsy

Tell me about it, I work 9-5 but not the normal one

Korean eating of dog would be more similar to our eating veal I guess, it's not a annual one off thing like Thanksgiving Day although they do have the dog meat festival, however that lasts for a few days.

Daisy

Shweet tatersalad · Post by **Shweet tatersalad** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:05 am

Are you kidding me?

We don't have enough too eat around here and you wanna eat chow casserole.

This might be a perfect thread too test our new censorship rules we have now.

I am not really a dog person,but I am not comfortable with German Shepard tar tar.

Little Chamonix · Post by **Little Chamonix** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:05 am

BabyRider;484770 wrote: Why would you think that???

How is it different?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:07 am

Little Chamonix;484784 wrote: How is it different?
You see it as "normal"?

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:10 am

Shweet tatersalad;484783 wrote: This might be a perfect thread too test our new censorship rules we have now.

I am not really a dog person,but I am not comfortable with German Shepard tar tar.

Seriously Shweet, nobody's recommending that they're eaten raw. The flavour's quite different to ground beef and it wouldn't be at all the same. Besides, some animals (unlike cows) are prone to flukes and the cooking's necessary to make the meat safe.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:10 am

BabyRider;484786 wrote: You see it as "normal"?

BR my friend :-6

Maybe Daisy should just join a Korean forum and discuss this topic.

Don't we have better things to get aggravated over?

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:11 am

spot;484789 wrote: Seriously Shweet, nobody's recommending that they're eaten raw. The flavour's quite different to ground beef and it wouldn't be at all the same. Besides, some animals (unlike cows) are prone to flukes and the cooking's necessary to make the meat safe.

Oh Spot

You never could resist a provocative topic, could you?

I love ascii · Post by **I love ascii** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:12 am

I wouldn't suggest dog tartar, raw dog is suspect would not be entirely safe to eat, i mean they lick their own arses let alone other dogs.

Better to cook it well

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:13 am

cherandbuster;484790 wrote: BR my friend :-6

Maybe Daisy should just join a Korean forum and discuss this topic.

Don't we have better things to get aggravated over?
Actually, today is a great day for concern!

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:14 am

cherandbuster;484791 wrote: Oh Spot

You never could resist a provocative topic, could you?

I'm watching the visitors from wherever they've come from.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 44 (10 members and 34 guests)

I expect their board's down and they came here to play.

I hope some of them decide they like us. They're fun so far.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:14 am

Anyone who is outraged (from the US) can go and sign a petition.

Then you can feel like you've done something to protect the dogs as there doesn't actually seem to be a law against it.

online petition

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:15 am

spot;484796 wrote: I expect their board's down and they came here to play.

I think you're right.

Hey, can one of you guys start a great sexy thread, too? :guitarist

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:16 am

Yep. I smell a troll.

Or a baiter. Especially the part about "sense." That was funny. :wah:

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:18 am

RedGlitter;484802 wrote: Yep. I smell a troll.

Or a baiter. Especially the part about "sense." That was funny. :wah:Let's not use the T-word, they're fun. They might even stay. Of all topics to pick, this one's the least offensive I can think of.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:34 am

I myself respect dogs contributions to society too much to consider them a food source.

Why not look at this from a different light, for all who find nothing wrong with using canines as a food source, where is there a line drawn between animals readily accepted for consumption? Next thing you know the Homeless will be on the menu, because they don't contribute to society(Sorry Homeless, but you do not benefit society one bit by paying taxes for roads, schools, hospitals, and conservation. If you would like to change that, then get a job - Thank you)(PS: do you have a computer?)

I am sure we all can agree that drawing the line upon consuming human beings is by far unreasonable, so why can't such be the case for other oxygen breathing species? Humans are animals, correct?

PS: Have you tried Rat, or Crow lately?...I heard it tastes much like chicken.

caesar777 · Post by **caesar777** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:36 am

[QUOTE=Little Chamonix;484766]

Ceaser777 and I love ascii, please don't be so frivilous I'm trying to stimlate adult debae as well as getting an answer to my problem.

I'm not being frivolous, I'm deadly serious.

I see no difference from eating dog to eating any other animal.

It is not illegal to catch and kill wild animals (rabbits for example) for food, so stray dogs should meet you requirements.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:40 am

K.Snyder;484822 wrote: (Sorry Homeless, but you do not benefit society one bit by paying taxes for roads, schools, hospitals, and conservation. If you would like to change that, then get a job - Thank you)(PS: do you have a computer?)Everyone should be homeless at least once in their life, it's educational. What else is life for if not to experience extremes and grow from them?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:49 am

Once your homeless, you appreciate not being homeless - it is growth and a good experience everyone should go through.

Patsy

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:00 am

I went to Pluto once and ate troll. It was bitter and nasty.

Little Chamonix · Post by **Little Chamonix** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:05 am

spot;484834 wrote: Everyone should be homeless at least once in their life, it's educational. What else is life for if not to experience extremes and grow from them?

I agree, a resonable proposistion. Since a young age I have attempted to live by the motto "Try everything twice". Some people on here should maybe try that for a week.

As to those accusing me of being deliberately provocotive I'd like them to know I have been a member allbeit extremely inactive of this site for almost 6 months having "lurked" for someime before that. I can't possiblly say why so many non-members are looking at this maybe it's something of general intrest to people as a whole?

K.Snyder I know you are posting tounge in cheek, however, you raise a valid point. I am not about to eat the homeless, I tried dog and found it o be very much to my liking and as pointed out I'm not breaking any law. If I could find a source of rat or crow that was clean then I would try it as experience shows that the unlikeliest meat can be very palatable. Frogs legs would be a case in point.

Anyway I'm off to bed now as I'm becoming incohereant nights really are killing me, maybe I should move to Korea they seem more open minded that some of my own countryfolk.

Daisy.

P.S. yes I have tried THAT and it was OK.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:13 am

I'm amused that having some standards is always the opposite of "openmindedness."

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:21 am

Not to be provocative but. The American Indian is said to have eaten dog. Some books I have read stated that during winter months it was common for Indians to eat their dogs. I have a link listed that says they ate dog also. Trust me I am a dog lover and would never eat dog but can understand it somewhat.

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional ... icans.html

Little Chamonix · Post by **Little Chamonix** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:31 am

YZGI, and don't forget man got to the pole by eating dog.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:14 am

Would you eat human babies if someone told you they were tender and juicy?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:15 am

DesignerGal;484958 wrote: Would you eat human babies if someone told you they were tender and juicy?
UMMMM NO!