Hi, how are you?

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:15 am

Does anyone else have trouble with meaningless phrases?

Sometimes people really want to know how I am and it is pleasant when they ask but when it is said without the slightest intention of listening to the answer.... it drives me batty. (sorry zinky - no pun intended)

How are you ... at dealing with inane chatter? I don't. I screw it up every time.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:20 am

Ever notice how we will automatically respond "fine"..even if we are far from fine?

But I have to agree with you. The question, as well as the response are rote. Another is '"If you need anything...call me", that is usually uttered during hard times..illness, death.

I still remember one GOOD thing when my mom died....my cousin came over to the house, grabbed a pen and paper, brought me into the kitchen and said...lets see what you need, I will go to the grocery store for you". And she did..and would not let my dad or I give her money. I mean, it was just basic stuff..coffee, milk, so soda pop..jusgt something to offer the people who came over.

Fibonacci · Post by **Fibonacci** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:26 am

koan;481649 wrote: Does anyone else have trouble with meaningless phrases?

Sometimes people really want to know how I am and it is pleasant when they ask but when it is said without the slightest intention of listening to the answer.... it drives me batty. (sorry zinky - no pun intended)

How are you ... at dealing with inane chatter? I don't. I screw it up every time.

I can't deal with it either. sometimes i get the feeling that people are just going through the paces. Asking because they think they have to, not because they want to.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:27 am

Koan we all screw it up at times. :wah: Sometimes my answer doesn't even match the question, I just keep on going and laugh at myself afterwards.

We are so tuned in to a pat answers we don't even hear what we are saying. The only way I find I can actually answers the question is to stop and look them in the eyes, then I have to answers it correctly hopefully..:-3

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:28 am

"Fine." I know...grit teeth.

I have to write these things in my scripts and it's just as painful.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:32 am

You know people banter those lines back and forth, an attempt at half a conversation almost.

Now, if I was writing a comedy...................

Boss: How are you today, Worker A?

*as he is already dumping a pile of work on your desk, and turning around to go back into his office*

Worker A: I'm fine, Boss........................

*and add wherever it takes you*

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:36 am

oh yeah, the number of things said at work that fall in this category...

"would you mind doing this for me?"

"can I see you in my office?" :-3

"don't I deserve a raise?"

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:45 am

Oh, I like your use of the smilies depicting the worker's face. LOL

:-5 "How long until Friday?"

:yh_cow "Yes, Boss-y"

*last syllable said in undertone, don't want him to hear it*

:yh_mfight "Yes Boss."

*thinking, bad hair day?*

:yh_devil *wait until he sits on that whoppee cushion I put on his leather chair!*

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:51 am

I'd also put in this category the oddity of having to answer

"I love you." with that oh, so predictable "I love you too." Even if it's true, it just doesn't sound sincere to me. I wince.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:15 am

I have many pet hates in phrases, such as "same difference" which is always used as an oxymoron. I also dislike euphemisms and there are loads nowadays, like when the government here makes a complete bollix of something, and calls it a "systems faulire" which is a way of saying, "we don't care, and we will get round to fixing it as soon as a highly paid committe which you will pay for, for about 6 years makes a 450 page report on the problem, by which time you will have all forgotten what it was about in the first place, and we shall ignore it", until the next "systems failure, when we shall repeat the process" "don't forget to pay your taxes BTW".

ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH. :-5

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:23 am

:yh_sweat

Talking about euphemisms. This subject arose because a character refers to a photo of a woman and her dad. The woman says "my mom passed away when I was young." but I double checked it and, thankfully, in England, people would say "my mom died".

Then comes the N. American "I'm sorry to hear that." but, apparently, in England, that is not required. so sayeth spot.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:27 am

Or the 100% Beef, burger trick, which actually means 100% cow, minus the bones (usually). :wah:

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:29 am

Galbally;481711 wrote: Or the 100% Beef, burger trick, which actually means 100% cow, minus the bones (usually). :wah:

I try not to read labels. Life is better that way.

well, dinner is better that way.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:34 am

Back to the labels for a second. I just read one and lost a little bit of faith in humanity.

On a can that has one of those tabbed lids:

IF YOU WOULD PREFER TO OPEN WITH A CAN OPENER, JUST TURN THE CAN UPSIDE DOWN.

was that really necessary. i don't need to know these things about people.

bagels · Post by **bagels** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:37 am

koan;481675 wrote: I'd also put in this category the oddity of having to answer

"I love you." with that oh, so predictable "I love you too." Even if it's true, it just doesn't sound sincere to me. I wince.

Yes!! I couldn't agree more. I tend to kind of inadvertently roll my eyes when I say "I love you too," because although it might be true, I know I'm just doing it out of politeness and as a conditioned response.

Maybe the whole "I love you/I love you too" exchange has been practised to much that it has reached a point in the English language (and probably others, too) where it is never a sincere conversation anymore, but a mere formality, devoid of the feeling it was once intended to describe or evoke... maybe we need to come up with a new response to "I love you" - one that we're not disensitized to, and that the other speaker isn't blindly expecting to hear...

Also, the quote in your sig couldn't be more poignant to this discussion.

24Hours · Post by **24Hours** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:39 am

Sometimes people really want to know how I am and it is pleasant when they ask but when it is said without the slightest intention of listening to the answer.... it drives me batty. (sorry zinky - no pun intended)

I know what you mean, Koan. I consider myself very "real" and so that type of thing annoyed me too. I got around it by answering with something real that was true, to operate on the level I felt at - such as "everyone in the family is healthy so can't complain, but I could use more sleep." And then, when I ask them back, "how are you doing" I look them dead in the eye and face them signaling I want to talk about THEM.

You'll like me too much if I go on a lot more, so let's just leave it at that.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:41 am

bagels;481719 wrote: Yes!! I couldn't agree more. I tend to kind of inadvertently roll my eyes when I say "I love you too," because although it might be true, I know I'm just doing it out of politeness and as a conditioned response.

Maybe the whole "I love you/I love you too" exchange has been practised to much that it has reached a point in the English language (and probably others, too) where it is never a sincere conversation anymore, but a mere formality, devoid of the feeling it was once intended to describe or evoke... maybe we need to come up with a new response to "I love you" - one that we're not disensitized to, and that the other speaker isn't blindly expecting to hear...

Also, the quote in your sig couldn't be more poignant to this discussion.

My daughter says it all the time and she's gotten used to "thank you." "I'm so pleased" "I'm the luckiest person in the world" etc. but I make sure to tell her as often. Just at different times.

911 · Post by **911** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:44 am

OMG!

My all time worst phrase is "My Bad"! I hate that! :-5

Your bad what? Your bad breath? Your bad back? I actually had an officer who used to say that on the air all the time! I could have strangled him

Post by **spot** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:45 am

bagels;481719 wrote: maybe we need to come up with a new response to "I love you" - one that we're not disensitized to, and that the other speaker isn't blindly expecting to hear...If find "yo momma" validates the experience effectively at that stage in the conversation.

bagels · Post by **bagels** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:46 am

pompom;481715 wrote: Not very good at this either but I usually try to go with it - it's like "stroking" activity in primates? Perhaps it's not the actual words that count in certain situations, those where people are slightly acquainted and no-one's sure of the other's feelings/intentions...maybe it's just about making friendly noises?

Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head... it's all about formalities. A polite way of sniffing each other's butts, if you will. Especially with English speakers, I find... English is just about the politest language I know.

So you will tend to have trouble when you take said words seriously, or as sincere, or as fulfilling another function than that of formal cliché... I must admit, I often take it as sincere, too. I'm just a straight-forward, no-bullcrap kind of person, you know?

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:54 am

What about "Yo Blair" as a means for the President of the U.S.A to salute the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Its not a euphemism, or a a meaningless phrase, its just Mr Bush's somewhat urban ghetto style take on the English language.

I wonder what he calls those leaders that he doesn't know, "Hey you!, yeah you in the funny hat, dog!", "what country you be running homey?", "whats that you sayin?", "Afganist-turkeme-azer-where?", "Yeah, whatever, Ringo". :wah:

911 · Post by **911** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:55 am

Out shopping: "Did you find everything OK?"

What if you say no? Are they going to order it for you and have it there within 5 business days? Can they specially make the color you want?

Don't ask questions you don't want answers to!

911 · Post by **911** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:57 am

Galbally;481731 wrote: What about "Yo Blair" as a means for the President of the U.S.A to salute the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Its not a euphemism, or a a meaningless phrase, its just Mr Bush's somewhat urban ghetto style take on the English language.

I wonder what he calls those leaders that he doesn't know, "Hey you!, yeah you in the funny hat, dog!", "what country you be running homey?", "whats that you sayin?", "Afganist-turkeme-azer-where?", "Yeah, whatever, Ringo". :wah:

Ringo, that's funny! :wah: I've never heard that one

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:08 pm

911;481723 wrote: OMG!

My all time worst phrase is "My Bad"! I hate that! :-5

Your bad what? Your bad breath? Your bad back? I actually had an officer who used to say that on the air all the time! I could have strangled him

yup. hate that one too.

I've caught myself using it before though. only once. never again.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:12 pm

911;481723 wrote: OMG!

My all time worst phrase is "My Bad"! I hate that! :-5

Your bad what? Your bad breath? Your bad back? I actually had an officer who used to say that on the air all the time! I could have strangled him

I agree with you, 911 -- that drives me crazy! :rolleyes:

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:14 pm

Galbally;481731 wrote: "Afganist-turkeme-azer-where?"
I'm sure that's been Bush's name for the Iranian president at least once, can't imagine him actually hitting that man's name without fumble.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:00 pm

koan;481754 wrote: I'm sure that's been Bush's name for the Iranian president at least once, can't imagine him actually hitting that man's name without fumble.

Yes indeed, though I find Mr Mahmoud Ahmadinejad even more worrying in his ability to come up with strange phrases than Mr Bush (admittedly he doesn't have the power to actually carry out any of his linguistic gaffes, yet).

Here are a few

The current geopolitcal situation: "The wave of the Islamic revolution will soon reach the entire world."

Israel: "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,”

Israel again: "No doubt the new wave [of attacks] in Palestine will soon wipe off this disgraceful blot from the face of the Islamic world.”

Lovely man.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:05 pm

Here's a question for him:

"Mr. Ahmadinejad, how are you?"

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:08 pm

Interesting thread, Koan. I was thinking yesterday about the 'Have a Nice Day' phrase which came to Australia from America, grated horribly on antipodean ears at first but now is normal parlance.

My take is that social interaction with strangers is a risky business, risky in the sense of you're sailing into unknown territory. So you put a few friendly type, recognisable markers into the conversation. An opener like ' Hi how are you' and all its variants, and a closer like 'Have a nice day.' They are like html markups and not meaningful, usually in themselves. The last thing you want is for a perfect stranger you're standing in line at the checkout with, to suddenly tell you how they really are. But it does happen. :sneaky:

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:11 pm

[QUOTE=911;481723]OMG!

My all time worst phrase is "My Bad"! I hate that! :-5

QUOTE]

I actually give lunch detentions to any student who says that in reply to me. After the first detention, I didn't have to hear that phrase again.

:)

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:12 pm

what's wrong with html markups?

they make sense to me

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:22 pm

That isn't what I meant!!! Grin. They aren't meaningless, but they are indicators... like the bit between the markups is to be italicised or represents a hyperlink. I love html. grin... Used to write webpages in it before all these editor thingies seduced us into not bothering to code up our own tables etc.. Ah, those heady old days of web design. This is a tangent, but I do recall asking for help on how to get Greek characters into scientific manuscripts published on the web. This was before symbol fonts etc. You had to insert tiny graphics.. but I digress... Yeah, I love html.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:24 pm

:yh_sweat

had me worried for a sec

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:10 pm

"How do you do?"

(Shakes hand)

"How do you do?"

How do you do what?

The dishes?

That thing you do?

If anyone says it to me, i answer the question, not turn it back on them who just ignore it anyway.

:-5

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:22 pm

That's what spot was telling me. It's the English custom to return the question. I like it.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:51 pm

I loved the 'How do you do' scene in the old My Fair Lady film. At the Ascot races.

How doooo you do!! GREAT

bagels · Post by **bagels** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:32 pm

AussiePam;481848 wrote: Interesting thread, Koan. I was thinking yesterday about the 'Have a Nice Day' phrase which came to Australia from America, grated horribly on antipodean ears at first but now is normal parlance.

My take is that social interaction with strangers is a risky business, risky in the sense of you're sailing into unknown territory. So you put a few friendly type, recognisable markers into the conversation. An opener like ' Hi how are you' and all its variants, and a closer like 'Have a nice day.' They are like html markups and not meaningful, usually in themselves. The last thing you want is for a perfect stranger you're standing in line at the checkout with, to suddenly tell you how they really are. But it does happen.

I had a prof of English-Language Stylistics who actually got a bit offended when a student ended an e-mail to her with "Have a nice day." She felt it was so fake and insincere, that it was more damaging to use it than not to.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:51 pm

I used to feel the same way, bagels. But I think most people are probably happily fairly unaware of the nuances of language and are probably just following a closure formula they've learned.

Have a nice day! can be used to be polite to a customer, to finalise a conversation free of any vibes, to finalise a conversation angrily, disdainfully or with wit or irony. It can be used when you really do want the person you've just finished speaking to, to have a nice day!!! Or when you hope they'll drop dead and never again see any kind of daylight, nice or otherwise.. :sneaky: Like most language, it's can hold a lot of different and shifting vibes. Otherwise how would people continue to be able to misunderstand people. Grin.

As we say in Australia

Have a good one!!!

That normally applies to the weekend, and normally really just means Have a Good Weekend! Literally.

bagels · Post by **bagels** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:16 pm

AussiePam;482194 wrote: I used to feel the same way, bagels. But I think most people are probably happily fairly unaware of the nuances of language and are probably just following a closure formula they've learned.

Have a nice day! can be used to be polite to a customer, to finalise a conversation free of any vibes, to finalise a conversation angrily, disdainfully or with wit or irony. It can be used when you really do want the person you've just finished speaking to, to have a nice day!!! Or when you hope they'll drop dead and never again see any kind of daylight, nice or otherwise.. :sneaky: Like most language, it's can hold a lot of different and shifting vibes. Otherwise how would people continue to be able to misunderstand people. Grin.

As we say in Australia

Have a good one!!!

That normally applies to the weekend, and normally really just means Have a Good Weekend! Literally.

I agree with all of this completely... I love language.

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:03 am

AussiePam;482065 wrote: I loved the 'How do you do' scene in the old My Fair Lady film. At the Ascot races.

How doooo you do!! GREAT

i live near ascot races

i hate it in the states when they say whats up

the sky , the roof ...the stars ... little jimbo ... not so much at my age but thanks for asking ... how did whats up become how are you i mean

another thing is how did a fat bald guy having breakfast minding his own .. just commenting on the heat of the day

saying "i'm really hot" make loads of young waitresses fall about laughing for over there on a hot day it means if you say i'm really hot that you think your really good looking how did that happen ? so moral of story is if your fat bald and sooo not good looking just dont comment on the temp or loads of young women will fall about laughing at you honest :wah: :wah:

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:44 am

Often when people greet me with "Alright?", I say "No, but thanks for asking" :rolleyes:

Having said that, it's one of my standard greetings as I can't be arsed to say "Good day to you my fine fellow, and how are you on this seasonably inclement day?"

Alright?

Imladris · Post by **Imladris** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:54 am

What really gets my goat is people who start sentences with 'Basically' and throw in a 'y'know what I mean' every now and then.

But what really, really is guaranteed to wind me up is the word 'gobsmacked'

English is a language of so many words, there are many, many choices...so why use that foul, coarse, unimaginative word is beyond me!!!:-5

*breathing deeply and calming down*

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:04 am

I get annoyed when women say they've gone through "the change of life".

hell, life changes me every day. I get a little bit older, wiser, and unafraid to say words like "menopause". :rolleyes:

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:39 am

Wendybird;482399 wrote: lol For years now if Graeme says "I love you" I answer it with "12" :wah:

Basically it means I love him six times more than loving him 2! (I think I was drunk when I came up with it but he knows what it means :-4 )

sue would be over the moon if i could love her with 12 "

:wah:

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:41 am

I love this thread.

I agree with so many points here.

Gobsmacked! Yes! That word disturbs me as much as "piehole." :wah:

Basically: something either is or it isn't; it can't be basically.

I don't really mind small talk; I guess for me it depends on who I am talking with. I find it comforting to talk about weather. Don't know why, we can't change it, it's just there.

I do seriously dislike cashiers who ask me how I am today because they don't care, and I dislike the required "merry christmas" from them, presuming I am christian, and also because they only say it because the store requires it of them.

Have a nice day is also another bone of contention with some and I admit I use it often. Except when I say "you too" to the cashier, I really mean it.

:)

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:46 am

Wendybird;482403 wrote: :yh_rotfl

Aww babes

(get her a magnifying glass for Crimbo jimbo!) :sneaky:

and tweezers:o

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:59 am

AussiePam;482194 wrote: I think most people are probably happily fairly unaware of the nuances of language and are probably just following a closure formula they've learned.The simple ways are best. Saying "By the way, your fly's undone" and, when they look, following it with "ha ha, got you that time" is as certain a way of ending a conversation that I know. Works for me every time, formulaic or not.