WorldPride festival in Jerusalem

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:08 am

New York Times

International gay leaders are planning a 10-day WorldPride festival and parade in Jerusalem in August, saying they want to make a statement about tolerance and diversity in the Holy City, home to three great religious traditions.

Now major leaders of the three faiths - Christianity, Judaism and Islam - are making a rare show of unity to try to stop the festival. They say the event would desecrate the city and convey the erroneous impression that homosexuality is acceptable...............

Post by **kensloft** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:34 am

This ought to be interesting.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:00 am

That does seem unnecessarily antagonizing, doesn't it? I saw a primetime commercial last night for some kind of gay rally. For a small segment of the population, they sure are vocal.

Or should I say "oral"? (snicker) Sorry about that. :rolleyes:

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:10 pm

Personally I have no problem with homosexuality. And I know that that segment of our society has been pushed into a corner so many times. However, I'm not in favour of Pride Day parades.

Those of us who are heterosexual do not hold parades announcing our sexual orientation. In fact my sexual orientation is no one elses business by my own just as no one elses is anybodys business..

Shalom

Ted :-6

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:56 pm

Yeah, I'm with you Ted. I'm not homophobic, but I do wish their sexuality was a little more subdued. Seeing two men french kissing is still a little unsettling to me.

The kids often ask me if I knew of any gay fighter pilots in the Air Force. My answer is, 'probably, but since that's not a part of the job and none of my business, I have no idea who they were." That's the way it should be.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:18 pm

Would there ever be a good reason to hold a pork growers convention in Jerusalem or Mecca? If someone proposed it you would know they wanted to offend the people who live there. I think this is the same thing.

lime-sterman · Post by **lime-sterman** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:48 pm

Ted wrote: Personally I have no problem with homosexuality. And I know that that segment of our society has been pushed into a corner so many times. However, I'm not in favour of Pride Day parades.

Those of us who are heterosexual do not hold parades announcing our sexual orientation. In fact my sexual orientation is no one elses business by my own just as no one elses is anybodys business..

Shalom

Ted :-6

It just so happened a gay parade was on in the town where I live, I was shopping at the time, they were not only kissing and grinding each other but they were whipping each other as well!..........it would not have mattered to me if it was a heterosexual pride parade who were doing this, it was to over the top for me!..........I don't mind if they have club's or venue's where they can indulge all of this and more if that's what they want, but I don't want people grinding there butt in my face in leather trouser's with no seat in the back of there pant's!.........had to admit though I found it hysterically funny as well.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:56 pm

lime-sterman wrote: It just so happened a gay parade was on in the town where I live, I was shopping at the time, they were not only kissing and grinding each other but they were whipping each other as well!..........it would not have mattered to me if it was a heterosexual pride parade who were doing this, it was to over the top for me!..........I don't mind if they have club's or venue's where they can indulge all of this and more if that's what they want, but I don't want people grinding there butt in my face in leather trouser's with no seat in the back of there pant's!.........had to admit though I found it hysterically funny as well.
But is'nt that the idea? the guys dress like this just to draw attention to their cause, the majority of guys who are gay dont dress like this every day, that would be ludicrous!! i mean could you imagine going to a lawyer & seeing his arse hanging out of his chaps :rolleyes:

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:20 pm

I have no problems with the homosexual lifestyle. However I would have a problem with parades in public places containing lewd acts and clothing that doesn't leave much to the imagination.

As for there being a parade in Jerusalem, not a very good idea for the planners. Unless they are expecting some to become martyrs.

Post by **kensloft** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:23 pm

abbey wrote: But is'nt that the idea? the guys dress like this just to draw attention to their cause, the majority of guys who are gay dont dress like this every day, that would be ludicrous!! i mean could you imagine going to a lawyer & seeing his arse hanging out of his chaps :rolleyes:
It's your arse that is hanging out of the pants, where your wallet used to be, when you visit any lawyer isn't it?

lime-sterman · Post by **lime-sterman** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:26 pm

abbey wrote: But is'nt that the idea? the guys dress like this just to draw attention to their cause, the majority of guys who are gay dont dress like this every day, that would be ludicrous!! i mean could you imagine going to a lawyer & seeing his arse hanging out of his chaps :rolleyes:

Without a doubt Abbey! I was just voicing my personal view and experience at the time, but as for the gay parade in Jerusalem goes, let's see how far this tolerance is going to be stretched, somehow I think the guy's who already live there will be providing the firework's :wah:

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:31 pm

you should see what this is like!! i have attended a few times, it makes mardi gras look like a girl scout picnic! Official Fantasy Fest Website - Key West FloridaFREAKS, GEEKS AND GODDESSES DESCEND UPON KEY WEST FOR FANTASY FEST 2005!http://www.fantasyfest.net/

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:51 pm

I suppose I have mixed feelings about the idea. Heterosexuals don't need to have parades because they are not discriminated against for their sexual orientation. By parading in the Holy City it would be a big move as far as announcing their presence and challenging discrimination from those they deem to be at the heart of the problem. Just once, though, I would like to see them parade in jeans and t-shirts. If they want to be accepted as a normal part of culture then they should make the statement by appearing just as any other members of acceptable culture would appear. Some in business suits some in cargo pants...

Normal citizens don't go about licking each other in public either.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:49 pm

koan wrote: If they want to be accepted as a normal part of culture then they should make the statement by appearing just as any other members of acceptable culture would appear. Some in business suits some in cargo pants...

A couple in walmart T-shirts.... Amen to that. It's really hard for me to accept someone dressed as the Indian Chief from The Village People as a stable member of society.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:51 pm

koan wrote:

Normal citizens don't go about licking each other in public either.

Except, of course, high school kids. lol!

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:32 pm

OK, STOP THE DAMN TRUCK!! :yh_angry Where were all of these kind of posts on the threads I was just crusified on??? It's the same kind of response I was asking for, but nobody would speak up!! These are all the same things I was thinking, but I was too emotional to get it down in print. I think a man dresses in a pastel t-shirt, denim skorts, Mary Janes, panty hose and an ankle bracelet walking through the mall is putting it in my face. :yh_silent I don't want to have to explain it to my 8 year old son. I said a lot of the same things that I just read, and I was called a narrow minded gay basher by about 4 or 5 people. True my first post was a little, well really harsh. But I later retracted that and explained that I over re-acted due to the emotional part of it. I have gay associates. You want to be gay, go for it, but don't throw it in my face. If you want to be accepted as the norm, than quit putting on the circus. I try to avoid the times and places that this is going on, but I can't avoid the mall, or just walking down the street.

As for the straight people not doing that openly sexual thing, your wrong. Ever been to Mardi Gras? It's a straight circus. Actually, I think it's pretty much a straight/bi/gay/metro circus.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:20 pm

Bullet, i will respond for myself only...when that guy first posted i thought it was a little joke to get a reaction. it may well have been, in retrospect. but when i read about his hormone therapy i had a tiny worry that he may be for real, and didn't want to hurt his feelings... mainly because i'm a mod, and also because sometimes i am a bit combative on here, as in my real life. i did understand your aversion as a straight man, and your point about being out with your child. then again, i am always at fantasy fest every year, (see above link) and have a bloody good time. the drag queens are a scream, and harmless, and the key west PD leads the parade every year. but when people go to fantasy fest they know what they are in for and don't take the cub scout troop. i know you wouldn't have battered the guy, but we on the internet often don't get the tone of voice or real intent of each other. i sure as hell have offended enough people with my sense of humor and strong opinions. you're good buddy!

10-4?

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:28 pm

The vast majority of gays do not dress as women, do not have sex in public, do not lust for children, do not obsess about sex 24/7, do not support bin Laden and are living their lives like the rest of us; Working, being responsible citizens and hoping to find someone to love and settle down with. The childish fear and hatred of gays in the U.S. is absurd but enthusiastically accepted now as we swing further right than ever. Bush's Mafia used the fear of them to divert our attention away from real problems and our president's profound ineptitude.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:33 pm

lady cop wrote: Bullet, i will respond for myself only...when that guy first posted i thought it was a little joke to get a reaction. it may well have been, in retrospect. but when i read about his hormone therapy i had a tiny worry that he may be for real, and didn't want to hurt his feelings... mainly because i'm a mod, and also because sometimes i am a bit combative on here, as in my real life. i did understand your aversion as a straight man, and your point about being out with your child. then again, i am always at fantasy fest every year, (see above link) and have a bloody good time. the drag queens are a scream, and harmless, and the key west PD leads the parade every year. but when people go to fantasy fest they know what they are in for and don't take the cub scout troop. i know you wouldn't have battered the guy, but we on the internet often don't get the tone of voice or real intent of each other. i sure as hell have offended enough people with my sense of humor and strong opinions. you're good buddy!

10-4?10-4 I guess I have always been the one to say what others were thinking. I just thought I'd get more support. Kind of felt high and dry on that one. I'm not the most PC, and quit frankly don't care. I am what I am (insert Popeye voice here),

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:37 pm

Bullet wrote: 10-4 I guess I have always been the one to say what others were thinking. I just thought I'd get more support. Kind of felt high and dry on that one. I'm not the most PC, and quit frankly don't care. I am what I am (insert Popeye voice here),frankly, i enjoy your comments since you are as bad as i am. worse actually.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:44 pm

David813 wrote: The vast majority of gays do not dress as women, do not have sex in public, do not lust for children, do not obsess about sex 24/7, do not support bin Laden and are living their lives like the rest of us; Working, being responsible citizens and hoping to find someone to love and settle down with. The childish fear and hatred of gays in the U.S. is absurd but enthusiastically accepted now as we swing further right than ever. Bush's Mafia used the fear of them to divert our attention away from real problems and our president's profound ineptitude.I really, REALLY get annoyed with this attitude. Because a person doesn't like/accept/approve of/condone gay lifestyles, they are labeled "childish", and "absurd". All this "We MUST be politically correct and accepting of everyone and everything, no matter what they are doing" is what is absurd. I don't like it, I never have liked it, and no matter what is said, I never will like it. I don't want to see it, and I sure don't want my kids to see it. Do whatever the hell you like, just keep it out of my face. I believe that is the point Bullet was trying to make. I agree.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:49 pm

BR I note your opinion on the subject. In my view you are a bigot on this issue. Just on this issue!!! I wonder what your reaction would be if you were to discover later in life that someone you love is gay. Happens every day. Amazing what a dash of compassion can do to one's prejudice. Ask Dick Cheney.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:50 pm

BabyRider wrote: I really, REALLY get annoyed with this attitude. Because a person doesn't like/accept/approve of/condone gay lifestyles, they are labeled "childish", and "absurd". All this "We MUST be politically correct and accepting of everyone and everything, no matter what they are doing" is what is absurd. I don't like it, I never have liked it, and no matter what is said, I never will like it. I don't want to see it, and I sure don't want my kids to see it. Do whatever the hell you like, just keep it out of my face. I believe that is the point Bullet was trying to make. I agree.Thank you. Even though you may be biased.:yh_angel But great minds think alike.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:53 pm

I am biased. But that has nothing to do with the fact that I had come to these conclusions all by myself, long before I knew you.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:54 pm

David813 wrote: BR I note your opinion on the subject. In my view you are a bigot on this issue. Just on this issue!!! I wonder what your reaction would be if you were to discover later in life that someone you love is gay. Happens every day. Amazing what a dash of compassion can do to one's prejudice. Ask Dick Cheney. :(Just because we don't approve does not mean we are a biggot. If someone I love is gay, great, go for it. Now I am going to say this again. I'll type realy slowly so you might get it this time. DON'T........PUT...... IT.........IN.........MY........FACE. D-O-N-'-T P-U-T I-T I-N M-Y F-A-C-E. Did you comprehend it this time?:yh_wait

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:55 pm

David813 wrote: BR I note your opinion on the subject. In my view you are a bigot on this issue. Just on this issue!!! I wonder what your reaction would be if you were to discover later in life that someone you love is gay. Happens every day. Amazing what a dash of compassion can do to one's prejudice. Ask Dick Cheney. :(if someone you love is gay, you keep loving them. assuming you REALLY love them. unless it's your lover, then you cap their ass.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:56 pm

Bullet :-6

Perhaps we should look at other things the Bible says as well. We are to stone prostitutes. We are allowed and urged to stone our misbhaving children. It is an abomination to eat shell fish. The wearing of clothing of two different fibres is forbidden. A woman who is into her period is unclean. Demon possession causes illnesses. God apparently condones war crimes (Num 31). A male who has a nocturnal emission is unclean (That would be about every teenager). It is certainly OK to dash the brains of babies out on the rocks.

I could go on but I think you get my drift.

The Bible was not dictated by God. It is man's response to his experiences of the Divine. It contains, myth, legend, folk tale, short story, fiction, poetry, theology and some kernels of history throughout.

It is not the "Word of God" by virtue of its authorship. It becomes for Christians the "Word of God" because God speaks to us through the Bible.

If homosexuality is such a big issue it is amazing that Jesus did not once refer to it and it was at the same level in that era as it is today. Ten percent of the animal population, including humans, display homosexual behaviour. According to the medical researchers it is not a choice but is actually part of the persons very ontology or being.

If homosexuality is a sin then we can directly blame God for it as he created man with ten percent of humans displaying homosexual behaviours.

Shalom

Ted :-6

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:59 pm

David813 wrote: BR I note your opinion on the subject. In my view you are a bigot on this issue. Just on this issue!!! I wonder what your reaction would be if you were to discover later in life that someone you love is gay. Happens every day. Amazing what a dash of compassion can do to one's prejudice. Ask Dick Cheney. :(I'm a bigot on more than just this issue. If it makes you feel better to label me because of my beliefs, no problem.

As a matter of fact I have some experience with people I care about telling me they are gay. Like my brother-in-law. He married my sister, had a child with her, and decided 12, count 'em 12 freakin' years later that he was a homo. Did I take him aside and wish him luck in his new lifestyle and explain that I was sympathetic and understood? Nope. I told him he was a walking piece of excrement that didn't deserve to live among humans. Then I kicked him in the shin and dumped powdered Ex-lax into his thermos. Compassion? What's that??? He sure didn't have any spare for my sister.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:00 pm

BabyRider :-6

I can agree that it is inappropriate to publicly display sexual behaviour. None of us really wants to see two humans making love in public. It is a private matter between two consenting adults and should remain so.

Shalom

Ted :-6

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:02 pm

Ted wrote:

If homosexuality is a sin then we can directly blame God for it as he created man with ten percent of humans displaying homosexual behaviours.

Then using that theory, we can blame God for murderers and rapists, too.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:07 pm

BabyRider :-6

Sorry but that logic doesn't follow at all. A homosexual is thus in his very being. Since he is a creation of God he was created that way.

Murderers etc. choose to be what they are.

Shalom

Ted :-6

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:15 pm

[QUOTE=Ted]

A homosexual is thus in his very being. Since he is a creation of God he was created that way.

I just don't buy that. See above post regarding brother-in-law. Murderers etc. choose to be what they are. Try telling that to all those defense attorneys out there who get their clients off by scamming the jury into believing they weren't responsible for their actions.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:18 pm

Ted wrote: Bullet :-6

Perhaps we should look at other things the Bible says as well. We are to stone prostitutes. Under Mosaic Law yes, but Jesus relieved us from such law. In fact he saved a women from being stoned for adultry.."let he with out sin cast the first stone"We are allowed and urged to stone our misbhaving children. I've never read of god fearing people doing this? Which book, chapt & verse?It is an abomination to eat shell fish. Again, where is that written?The wearing of clothing of two different fibres is forbidden. Again, where? It may have been for certain prosolytes. A woman who is into her period is unclean. Well they did not quit have the tampons and sanitary napkins of today so it was pretty nasty. Demon possession causes illnesses. And? Not the only cause of illness. When Jesus raised Lazerous, he had died of illness but not demon posession, and the little girl, I forget her name. She died quit young, no mention of demon posesion there, God apparently condones war crimes (Num 31). A male who has a nocturnal emission is unclean (That would be about every teenager). Well did'nt you wash up after? NO....eeeewwwweee It is certainly OK to dash the brains of babies out on the rocks.

I could go on but I think you get my drift.

The Bible was not dictated by God. It is man's response to his experiences of the Divine. It contains, myth, legend, folk tale, short story, fiction, poetry, theology and some kernels of history throughout.

It is not the "Word of God" by virtue of its authorship. It becomes for Christians the "Word of God" because God speaks to us through the Bible.

If homosexuality is such a big issue it is amazing that Jesus did not once refer to it and it was at the same level in that era as it is today. Ten percent of the animal population, including humans, display homosexual behaviour. According to the medical researchers it is not a choice but is actually part of the persons very ontology or being. You say it, so it MUST be true.:yh_eyerol

If homosexuality is a sin then we can directly blame God for it as he created man with ten percent of humans displaying homosexual behaviours.

Shalom

Ted :-6Your dancing around the issue and distorting scripture. Just answer the question yes or no. Does the bible, from which you have stated "It becomes for Christians the "Word of God" because God speaks to us through the Bible." does in condone or condemn homosexuality?:yh_silent

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:21 pm

BabyRider :-6

You may not buy it but the scientific research is there to show it is so. Now I am talking the true homosexual. I have not doubts there are some who, for whatever reason, choose that lifestyly. However, I can't see too many making that choice considering the kinds of abuse they have to put up with in our society.

The Bible speaks against promiscuity but it does not speak against sexual behaviour between two loving consenting adults.

BTW there are all kinds of web sites that show the research. They are not hard to find.

Shalom

Ted :-6

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:25 pm

BabyRider wrote: I'm a bigot on more than just this issue. If it makes you feel better to label me because of my beliefs, no problem.

As a matter of fact I have some experience with people I care about telling me they are gay. Like my brother-in-law. He married my sister, had a child with her, and decided 12, count 'em 12 freakin' years later that he was a homo. Did I take him aside and wish him luck in his new lifestyle and explain that I was sympathetic and understood? Nope. I told him he was a walking piece of excrement that didn't deserve to live among humans. Then I kicked him in the shin and dumped powdered Ex-lax into his thermos. Compassion? What's that??? He sure didn't have any spare for my sister.
All gays are just like your brother in law. Hmmmm. I won't argue with a moderator but I think that is wrong. Plus your bible is not everyone's guide book. So keep it outta my face and we'll continue to get along despite our differences!

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:31 pm

Bullet :-6

I am not skating around the issue whatsoever. Jesus made no comment whatsoever about homosexuality. Now you will say that Paul spoke out against it. He also spoke out against women speaking in church or having any leadership role. Paul said a lot of things that we don't accept because they are purely his opinion.

Then of course we have the problem of which of Paul's letters come from Paul and which come from Pseudo-Paul.

There are some phrases that can be misinterpreted that way. i.e. "It is an abomination for a man to lie with a man as with a woman." It also says in the same book (Leviticus) that it is an abomination to eat shell fish or wear clothing of two different fibres.

You are making the mistake of trying to find a simple answer to a very complex problem. Unfortunately the Bible doesn't respond to all of our modern problems.

Then one has to understand haggadah midrash and the use of metaphor in the Bible as well. You also have the problem of discerning what is the "Word of God" in the very human words in the Bible: not an easy task either.

Shalom

Ted :-6

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:32 pm

Well. Look what happens when I miss a few pages.

A lot.

First let me clarify that when I suggested gays should dress "normal" at the parades it does not mean that I dislike flamboyant outfits at any other time. I merely suggest it would make their point better. Sex in a public place is, I believe, fantasy #2 for most people. I think the festivals and parades are used to partially live out this fantasy. Some fantasies are best left that way.

When I see men dressed (usually better than a percentage of women) as females I am likely to say something like "you go, girl". It's fun. It is no "worse" than women dressed in skin tight clothing that barely conceals their assets, or a goth with a spider tattooed on their face, or punk with a purple mohawk and ripped leggings, or a biker, or a grandpa in a polyester pant suit.

All these things and more can be an affront to the senses.

BR the question was what would you do if someone you love turns out to be gay. It doesn't seem you loved this person very much. Try imagining the news comes from your son.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:33 pm

Ted wrote: BabyRider :-6

You may not buy it but the scientific research is there to show it is so. Now I am talking the true homosexual. I have not doubts there are some who, for whatever reason, choose that lifestyly. However, I can't see too many making that choice considering the kinds of abuse they have to put up with in our society.

The Bible speaks against promiscuity but it does not speak against sexual behaviour between two loving consenting adults. Wrong, but I sin in this catagory also.

BTW there are all kinds of web sites that show the research. They are not hard to find.

Shalom

Ted :-6 I am outta here, I'll check the thread when I get home. L8R, bullet

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:34 pm

David813 wrote: All gays are just like your brother in law. Hmmmm. I won't argue with a moderator but I think that is wrong. Plus your bible is not everyone's guide book. So keep it outta my face and we'll continue to get along despite our differences!I don't mean to throw the bible in your face. Ted accused me of putting homo and immorality together, and I was just clearing up that I did not, the bible did. I apoligize if I offend. I certainly do not whant to push this on anybody. Good night.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:35 pm

David813 wrote: All gays are just like your brother in law. Hmmmm. I won't argue with a moderator but I think that is wrong. Plus your bible is not everyone's guide book. So keep it outta my face and we'll continue to get along despite our differences!
OK, first of all...What the hell does being a moderator have to do with anything??? You can't argue or debate with someone who is around to delete spam? Because that's about the extent of my awesome power.

And 2nd, where did the "your bible" comment come from? Please refer to my previous posts here or frankly in any thread you can dig up and show me where I have referred to the bible. I was forced to read and study it as a child, but I've blocked most of it from my memory, so I tend NOT to use the bible for any argument. I'll leave the scripture quoting to Bullet.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:36 pm

It's been a long night folks, I'm leaving workand will check back later, Happy posting

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:38 pm

Bullet :-6

"Wrong, but I sin in this category also." That is your opinion but it is not supported by Biblical scholars.

Shalom

Ted :-6

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:55 pm

koan wrote:

BR the question was what would you do if someone you love turns out to be gay. It doesn't seem you loved this person very much. Try imagining the news comes from your son. Somehow I knew someone would come along with this. And now I'm supposed to say either, "Yep, I'd hate him, too," proving that I am adamant in my beliefs, but opening myself up for attack for not standing behind my child no matter what, or backpedal, and shoot myself in the foot.

My son is fully aware of what his uncle did and what he is. He's not a fan.

There seems to be a common belief among those yelling "acceptance" that gays are "born that way." Well, my son hasn't shown any signs of being attracted to other boys. Coming up on 16 and he's still into girls. Playing out the hypothetical scenario, if he came to me and said he was gay, I don't know how I'd react. No one could know that until they are put to the test. Would I be happy? No. What would I do? Let's hope we never find out.

As far as loving my brother-in-law, I did. Until he crushed my sister. Now he is #2 on my list of people I'd enjoy seeing dead.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:12 pm

BabyRider wrote: Somehow I knew someone would come along with this. And now I'm supposed to say either, "Yep, I'd hate him, too," proving that I am adamant in my beliefs, but opening myself up for attack for not standing behind my child no matter what, or backpedal, and shoot myself in the foot.

My son is fully aware of what his uncle did and what he is. He's not a fan.

There seems to be a common belief among those yelling "acceptance" that gays are "born that way." Well, my son hasn't shown any signs of being attracted to other boys. Coming up on 16 and he's still into girls. Playing out the hypothetical scenario, if he came to me and said he was gay, I don't know how I'd react. No one could know that until they are put to the test. Would I be happy? No. What would I do? Let's hope we never find out.

As far as loving my brother-in-law, I did. Until he crushed my sister. Now he is #2 on my list of people I'd enjoy seeing dead.

Now that we've cleared up that your bigotry is not based on religion, just on personal opinion, I have to question your definition of love.

Aren't you the lucky one that your son appears to be of the acceptable sexual orientation. I bet he be scared sh!tless to exhibit anything different if it was the case. I'm not implying your son is gay. I'm trying to get through to you. You are not playing out the hypothetical scenario. To complete this excercise you have to imagine what you would do. You stopped loving your brother in law. BTW if your son is well aware of what happened with your brother in law you are teaching him to fear and/or hate homosexuality.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:24 pm

kensloft wrote: This ought to be interesting.
Are you psychic?

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:33 pm

Bullet wrote: Just because we don't approve does not mean we are a biggot. If someone I love is gay, great, go for it. Now I am going to say this again. I'll type realy slowly so you might get it this time. DON'T........PUT...... IT.........IN.........MY........FACE. D-O-N-'-T P-U-T I-T I-N M-Y F-A-C-E. Did you comprehend it this time?:yh_wait

Though I added it to my previous list for your sake let me say it again slowly. DO... YOU... HIDE... THE... FACT... THAT... YOU... ARE... A... BIKER? Do you walk around in public in cargo pants and a polo shirt? Do you save your bike for weekend joy rides? Are you unaware that some people don't like bikers? I personally know someone who wanted to throw a dead rat onto the Hell's Angel's clubhouse lot. As you have said already, Jesus said "let him without sin cast the first stone"

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:38 pm

koan wrote: Now that we've cleared up that your bigotry is not based on religion, just on personal opinion, I have to question your definition of love. I'm sure you do.

Aren't you the lucky one that your son appears to be of the acceptable sexual orientation. I would say that raising him with morals and honesty had a lot more to do with it than luck. I bet he be scared sh!tless to exhibit anything different if it was the case. Then you would lose. Try not to assume that you know THAT much more about my son than I do. The fact is, we have a very open line of communication and there are several things he sees very differently than I do. Just so happens that men sleeping with men being wrong is one thing we see the same. I'm not implying your son is gay. I'm trying to get through to you. Your efforts became futile when you assumed you knew something about my child, when in fact, you don't. You are not playing out the hypothetical scenario. To complete this excercise you have to imagine what you would do. You stopped loving your brother in law. BTW if your son is well aware of what happened with your brother in law you are teaching him to fear and/or hate homosexuality. "I object, your honor!!"

"On what grounds?"

"The question has been asked and answered. The witness has confessed she does not know what she would do, and this court cannot go on what may or may not happen."

"Sustained."

How in THE HELL does him knowing what happened with the brother-in-law equate to me teaching him fear and hatred of gays? Exactly what planet did THAT far-fetched theory come from???

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:38 pm

BabyRider wrote: I'm a bigot on more than just this issue. If it makes you feel better to label me because of my beliefs, no problem.

... I told him he was a walking piece of excrement that didn't deserve to live among humans. Then I kicked him in the shin and dumped powdered Ex-lax into his thermos. Compassion? What's that??? He sure didn't have any spare for my sister.

Do you expect us to yell and cheer? What you did, IMO, was horrible. You judged him, assaulted him, and poisoned him. I will look to you no further for compassion or morals.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:41 pm

koan wrote: I personally know someone who wanted to throw a dead rat onto the Hell's Angel's clubhouse lot.With the desired result being......what exactly? They'd probably snag it and cook it up for a snack.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:43 pm

Dictionary.com

bigÃ‚·ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)

n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.