'Boom, and then no more screams'

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:16 am

What is going through their minds when they do things like this ???

A schoolboy who killed nine people then himself, walked through a school in the US state of Minnesota shooting as he went, witnesses said.

BBC World News report

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:12 am

These things always happen this time of year?

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:28 am

letha wrote: What is going through their minds when they do things like this ???

A schoolboy who killed nine people then himself, walked through a school in the US state of Minnesota shooting as he went, witnesses said.

BBC World News report

You know Letha, I don't know what is going on thru their minds???????

Having been a victim of a stalker/shooting I can tell you what maybe the victims were thinking.........

......This ain't happening, I don't want to die yet, please lord, HELP ME. It is a terrifying feeling, hopelessness, fear, then anger.

I have been a gun rights advocate ever since I was assaulted.

When I lived in Utah I helped to lobby for the teachers to be allowed to carry firearms. (which they now do)

I see where the first shot was a security guard. I wonder if he was armed? I have a feeling he was not.

This will be turned around to the gun issue in the next few days, where did he get the gun? etc.....

This is from London, Evening Standard :

First he killed the security guard, then Weise began firing as he walked down the hallway of the school, stepping into a classroom where the rest of the killings took place.

Pupils cowered under desks, screaming and begging him to stop.

The two handguns and a shotgun used by the killer are believe to belong to his grandfather Daryl Lussier, 58, a veteran tribal officer with the Red Lake police department.

He is believed to have used his grandfather's police vehicle to get to the school, according to sources.

The family are said to be one of the most prominent on the reservation, with Mr Lussier near retirement.

Perhaps if the security guard were armed there would only be one death here.....?

JUST only, This Nazi luvin punk:

Fifteen-year-old Jeff Weise was seen "grinning and waving" as he walked down the corridor firing as he went.

Weise, who started by shooting dead his two grandparents, was armed with two handguns and a shotgun.

It is the worst toll in a US school shooting since the Columbine massacre in Colorado six years ago left 14 dead. Like Weise, Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold dressed in black trenchcoats and were obsessed by Satan and Nazis.

:-1

ilona17 · Post by **ilona17** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:37 am

you can always speculate about what is going through someone's mind at a time like that but truly we will never know what drives a person to such extreme measures. untill we expirience such extreme desperation are self. I do not think that he was a nazi person at all. we do not know the ins and outs of this case. We dont know what this young boy went through in his life to reach such desperation so lets not specualate by any means to say that he must have beign "evil" because that is the easiest way to cope with situations like this. than to think he was just a "normal" boy driven to this.

ilona17 · Post by **ilona17** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:40 am

BTS wrote: You know Letha, I don't know what is going on thru their minds???????

Having been a victim of a stalker/shooting I can tell you what maybe the victims were thinking.........

......This ain't happening, I don't want to die yet, please lord, HELP ME. It is a terrifying feeling, hopelessness, fear, then anger.

I have been a gun rights advocate ever since I was assaulted.

When I lived in Utah I helped to lobby for the teachers to be allowed to carry firearms. (which they now do)

I see where the first shot was a security guard. I wonder if he was armed? I have a feeling he was not.

This will be turned around to the gun issue in the next few days, where did he get?

This from London, Evening Standard :

First he killed the security guard, then Weise began firing as he walked down the hallway of the school, stepping into a classroom where the rest of the killings took place.

Pupils cowered under desks, screaming and begging him to stop.

The two handguns and a shotgun used by the killer are believe to belong to his grandfather Daryl Lussier, 58, a veteran tribal officer with the Red Lake police department.

He is believed to have used his grandfather's police vehicle to get to the school, according to sources.

The family are said to be one of the most prominent on the reservation, with Mr Lussier near retirement.

Perhaps if the security guard were armed there would only be one death here.....?

JUST This Nazi luvin punk:

Fifteen-year-old Jeff Weise was seen "grinning and waving" as he walked down the corridor firing as he went.

Weise, who started by shooting dead his two grandparents, was armed with two handguns and a shotgun.

It is the worst toll in a US school shooting since the Columbine massacre in Colorado six years ago left 14 dead. Like Weise, Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold dressed in black trenchcoats and were obsessed by Satan and Nazis.

:-1JUST This Nazi luvin punk

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:48 am

ilona17 wrote: JUST This Nazi luvin punk

Yah..................Just a Nazi luvin PUNK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,1 ... 62,00.html

A neo-nazi 'angel of death'

Sarah Left uncovers a series of website posts apparently linking Jeff Weise to extreme rightwing politics

Tuesday March 22, 2005

Jeff Weise, the 17-year-old named in newspaper reports as the gunman in the Red Lake school shooting, may have been investigated last year in connection with a shooting threat to the school, according to posts made on a Nazi website.

Over a five-month period between March and August 2004, someone identifying himself as Weise posted numerous messages on a talkboard hosted by Nazi.org, the website of the Libertarian National Socialist Green party. The party promotes a Nazi philosophy of racial purity.

Article continues

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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In March 2004, a chatroom participant tagged Todesengel ("angel of death") began a thread titled "Native American Nationalist?" and introduced himself as "Jeff Weise, a Native American from the Red Lake 'Indian' reservation in Minnesota". Todesengel expressed interest in joining the party and said he had done a great deal of research on Hitler, a man he much admired. Later in the thread, Todesengel changed his tag to NativeNazi.

"When I was growing up, I was taught (like others) that Nazi's were (are) evil and that Hitler was a very evil man, ect," wrote Todesengel, in a quote not corrected for spelling and grammar. "Of course, not for a second did I believe this. Upon reading up on his actions, the ideals and issues the German Third Reich adressed, I began to see how much of a lie had been painted about them. They truly were doing it for the better."

On April 19 2004, he posted to the talkboard: "By the way, I'm being blamed for a threat on the school I attend because someone said they were going to shoot up the school on 4/20, Hitlers birthday, and just because I claim being a National Socialist, guess whom they've pinned?"

By May 26 the incident seemed to have blown over, with Todesengel posting: "But the school threat passed and I was cleared as a suspect, I'm glad for that. I don't much care for jail, I've never been there and I don't plan on it."

The gun rampage through the remote northern Minnesota reservation yesterday left 10 people dead. Reports suggested that Weise took a shotgun and at least one handgun belonging to his grandfather, a veteran local police officer. He shot his grandparents, who later died, before moving on to Red Lake high school and killing five students, a teacher, a security guard and ultimately himself.

Today the Libertarian National Socialist Green party said incidents such as yesterday's shooting were to be expected when "thinking people are crammed into an unthinking, irrational modern society".

"We knew [Weise] briefly through 34 posts he made on the forum. He expressed himself well and was clearly highly intelligent and contemplative, especially for one so young," the site's administrator said in statement posted today on Nazi.org.

"Weise participated in the forum in part because, unlike 'white nationalist' or 'white power' movements, the LNSG embraces all races as part of its vision of world nationalism. His statements on the site reflected a frustration with the populist politics and materialistic arrogance of modern society," the statement continued.

In a July 13 post, NativeNazi expressed his concern that Native Americans had turned their backs on racial purity and were being weakened by "interracial mixing". He was particularly annoyed that young Native Americans were copying the culture of African Americans.

"Where I live less than 1% of all the people on the Reservation can speak their own language, and among the youth wanting to be black has run ramped. We have kids my age killing each other over things as simple as a fight, and it's because of the rap influence. Wannabe-gangsters everywhere, I can't go 5 feet without hearing someone blasting some rap song over their speakers," he complained.

He went on: "It's hard though, being a Native American National Socialist, people are so misinformed, ignorant, and close minded it makes your life a living hell."

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:03 am

ilona17 wrote: you can always speculate about what is going through someone's mind at a time like that but truly we will never know what drives a person to such extreme measures. untill we expirience such extreme desperation are self. I do not think that he was a nazi person at all. we do not know the ins and outs of this case. We dont know what this young boy went through in his lie to reach such desperation so lets not specualate by any means to say that he must have beign "evil" because that is the easiest way to cope with situations like this. than to think he was just a "normal" boy driven to this.

Just a normal boy?

You sound like the nazi web site.........I quote them (nazi.org):

Today the Libertarian National Socialist Green party said incidents such as yesterday's shooting were to be expected when "thinking people are crammed into an unthinking, irrational modern society".

"We knew [Weise] briefly through 34 posts he made on the forum. He expressed himself well and was clearly highly intelligent and contemplative, especially for one so young," the site's administrator said in statement posted today on Nazi.org.

"so lets not specualate by any means to say that he must have beign "evil" because that is the easiest way to cope with situations like this. than to think he was just a "normal" boy driven to this".

Just a poor young normal boy crammed into a crazy world and this is to be expected..........

Sorry I disagree, He was a sick puppy and like I said before I wish the guard could have taken him out..........or if the teacher he killed might have been armed too.

:-5

ilona17 · Post by **ilona17** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:04 am

look i think you've got me all wrong mate keep you're wig on! I would never condem someone's action's no matter how good the excuse or reason for that matter. I would never condem the taking of innocent people's lives no one's life for that matter. And before you told me i did not know about the nazi webiste. Im just saying sometimes circumstances drive a person to their actions. their not always nazi's or whatever you said.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:07 am

You're still left with the question as to why though?

Always think of that song now everytime this happens, and now I can't remember who it's by or what it's called.

First persons he shot were actually his grandparents by the way.

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:17 am

When I lived in Utah I helped to lobby for the teachers to be allowed to carry firearms So with a nod to my previous gun control thread the answer in to arm everybody?

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:52 am

Does anyone know how many times this sort of thing has happened in the UK, I can think of twice, both were adults behind the guns though.

First at my High School, nobody was hurt though, except emotionally of course, there were a bunch held hostage in the library.

Second the village in Scotland(I don't want to spell it wrong).

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:19 am

Dunblane was the school and Hungerford was the other one, both men involved were members of gun clubs and used legally held weapons, bothwere also self confessed "gun nuts" i.e. gun enthusiasts

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:00 pm

That's three then, my school was in Lowestoft. I don't remember that making it big in the news though, it was the late 80's

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:12 pm

This boy lost both of his parents to violence. He was very intelligent and severely misguided. This is what happens when a child is left to be taught by paid segregates (school teachers) and his own peer group. Until we do the hard work necessary to be sure all children are connected to a loving family structure we will be seeing this sort of thing. It is easy to give them to the schools to raise then blame the schools when it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t work.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:53 pm

posted by Letha

Second the village in Scotland(I don't want to spell it wrong)

Actually Dunblane is a city as it has a cathedral, it just happens to be a very small one. Just after the shooting there was a local by election, the pro gun candiadate had to be rescued by police as it seemed he would be-well not lynched but a well to do version of it.

After Dunblane there was also a call for air guns to be banned, recently in Glasgow a two year old was killed by one.

Rather than calls for everybody to be armed there are calls for all guns to be banned there are now public support for air guns to be kept from kids. After Dunblane the age at which they can be bought was not raised. It's a fairly safe bet that any candidate that does not agree is unlikely to get elected at least in Glasgow.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5036729.html

The person who did this should really give himself up, if the mothers in Easterhouse get hold of him he is liable to find out what a spanking at the rough end of society is like.

There are no tory voters in Glasgow anyway. In fact I only know two or three.

Probably the Scottish parliament will take action at least in Scotland.

We just have a completely different attitude to guns, it's more along the lines of any sick B(*&^^%% who wants one should be locked up.

Out thugs and nutters are just as bad as anyone elses but apart from isolated pockets gun crime is rare, that is why it gets the headlines that it does.

posted by BTS

Perhaps if the security guard were armed there would only be one death here.....?

Is it just me or does anyone else think there is something wrong if you need armed security guards in a school.?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:01 pm

Hi GMC....most security guards over here are not armed, except those working armored trucks, and perhaps a couple other categories. but my county does have deputies assigned to our schools. they're called school resource officers, but sadly it has more to do with drugs and armed kids.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:10 pm

Some schools have metal detectors too don't they?

Actually Dunblane is a city as it has a cathedralSorry

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:12 pm

gmc wrote:

Is it just me or does anyone else think there is something wrong if you need armed security guards in a school.?There is definitely something wrong if we need armed security guards in schools. But I happen to think we do. We are seeing this more and more, these shootings at schools. And factories, and post offices. If the people providing security carry guns, they have the ability to stop these attacks.

Start arming the security and these kids will have to think twice about going in and opening fire on their classmates and teachers. And if they don't think twice, the people there MEANT TO PROTECT OUR KIDS can protect them.

Until we find a way to prevent the shootings, we should provide the neccessary protection.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:13 pm

Clint wrote: This boy lost both of his parents to violence. He was very intelligent and severely misguided. This is what happens when a child is left to be taught by paid segregates (school teachers) and his own peer group. Until we do the hard work necessary to be sure all children are connected to a loving family structure we will be seeing this sort of thing. It is easy to give them to the schools to raise then blame the schools when it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t work.

Your solution is what?

"This is what happens when a child is left to be taught by paid segregates (school teachers) and his own peer group. Until we do the hard work necessary to be sure all children are connected to a loving family structure we will be seeing this sort of thing. It is easy to give them to the schools to raise then blame the schools when it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t work."

First:

Who is "we"

Blame anyone but the one responsible for their actions?

Who is blaming the school? Other than Jeff ?

We can't take every kid with problems from their homes. He lived with his grandparents, so he was probably where he needed to be......... With his FAMILY

WASSS U think?

Perhaps they tried to correct his poor behavior and that was his reason for killing them.......I DUNNO just guessin

And that mean ol school put him on the ol "HOMEBOUND PLAN" so that was a good enough reason to committ murder there too?

A few pics I got off of the Red Lake High Site,

(pic of hallway)

http://www.paulbunyan.net/rlschools/ima ... 20hall.JPG

(Girls basketball team)

http://www.paulbunyan.net/rlschools/gir ... 4%2005.JPG

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005...ain682257.shtml

A 'Weird' And 'Anti-Social' Loner

March 22, 2005

CBS/AP) Classmates of the Minnesota teenager suspected of killing nine people and himself in a shooting rampage Monday say he was "weird" and "anti-social" and may have posted messages on neo-Nazi Internet sites.

The suspect was identified as Jeff Weise, a 17-year-old student at Red Lake High School on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, about 300 miles north of Minneapolis.

He is accused of shooting his grandfather and the grandfather's girlfriend to death at their home, then going to the school and gunning down five students, a teacher and a security guard before turning a gun on himself.

At least 14 others were wounded in the attack, the worst school shooting since the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.

There was no immediate indication of Weise's motive. But several students said he held anti-social beliefs, and he may have posted messages on a neo-Nazi Web site expressing admiration for Adolf Hitler.

A writer who identified himself as Jeff Weise of the Red Lake Reservation posted the messages under the nickname "Todesengel" German for "angel of death." An April 2004 posting by him referred to being accused of "a threat on the school I attend," though the writer later said he was cleared.

Weise had been placed in Red Lake High's homebound program for some violation of policy, said school board member Kathryn Beaulieu. Students in that program stay at home and are tutored by a traveling teacher. Beaulieu said she didn't know what the violation was and wouldn't be allowed to reveal it if she did.

Relatives told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise was a loner who usually wore black and was teased by other kids until "he snapped." They told the newspaper Wiese's father committed suicide four years ago, and that his mother was living in a Minneapolis nursing home because she suffered brain injuries in a car accident.

One student said Wiese had not attended school recently. She said other students viewed him as "weird."

"He's anti-social," the student said. She said she had never heard him discuss Nazis, but that he drew pictures in which "his people have little hats with Nazi signs on them."

Ã‚©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:07 pm

Excuse me. I missed the fact that he was living with his grandparents. That is usually a good thing.

Ã¢â‚¬Å“WeÃ¢â‚¬ is all of us. A broad brush statement but my post was short.

My point is that the family structure (here in the U.S. anyway) has been pretty well destroyed. Both parents usually work and the children ARE left to be raised by the schools. Children are being raised with out love being demonstrated to them by the sacrifices of those who should love them the most.

I expect that this boy felt unloved by his parents. His grandfather and his girlfriend were killed by him. On the surface it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t look like the grandfather was all that dear to his grandson.

We canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make a law that will fix this problem. We (all of us) have to be shaken to the reality that our culture is failing. We (all of us) have to be willing to make sacrifices for our children (big houses, new cars, etc.) that demonstrate love. Children need loving parents if they are going to be expected to become loving people. We are spawning a more violent generation than the previous generation and if we keep it up the next generation will be even more violent.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:19 pm

Clint wrote:

We canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make a law that will fix this problem. We (all of us) have to be shaken to the reality that our culture is failing. We (all of us) have to be willing to make sacrifices for our children (big houses, new cars, etc.) that demonstrate love. Children need loving parents if they are going to be expected to become loving people. We are spawning a more violent generation than the previous generation and if we keep it up the next generation will be even more violent.
Hold the phone...Are you actually saying that big houses and nice cars are a true demonstration of love??? If that's the case, I must not love my kids very much, because I drive a piece of crap car, and live in a tiny upper flat. My fiance drives an old car and lives in same said tiny upper flat. So he doesn't love his kids as much as someone who can afford a big house either?? WTF does money have to do with how much you love your kids? Please, PLEASE tell me that I am reading your post wrong. :-5

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:00 pm

Clint wrote: Excuse me. I missed the fact that he was living with his grandparents. That is usually a good thing.

Ã¢â‚¬Å“WeÃ¢â‚¬ is all of us. A broad brush statement but my post was short.

My point is that the family structure (here in the U.S. anyway) has been pretty well destroyed. Both parents usually work and the children ARE left to be raised by the schools. Children are being raised with out love being demonstrated to them by the sacrifices of those who should love them the most.

I expect that this boy felt unloved by his parents. His grandfather and his girlfriend were killed by him. On the surface it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t look like the grandfather was all that dear to his grandson.

We canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make a law that will fix this problem. We (all of us) have to be shaken to the reality that our culture is failing. We (all of us) have to be willing to make sacrifices for our children (big houses, new cars, etc.) that demonstrate love. Children need loving parents if they are going to be expected to become loving people. We are spawning a more violent generation than the previous generation and if we keep it up the next generation will be even more violent.

Clint you seem reasonable and have to admit to have all those things you speak of

"(big houses, new cars, etc.) " Both parents usually will have to work to do those things.

I think BR has it right:

(a little stronger choice of words than I might choose)

"WTF does money have to do with how much you love your kids?"

I believe in a "perfect world", one parent should stay home (preferably the wife) and the husband works. But we do not live in a perfect world, unfortunately. We live in a world sculptured around PC thinking anymore.........not a perfect world

To just get by usually both will have to find work of some kind. Hopefully the wife's would be part time. This flies right in the face of "NOW" and how they have badgered women into believing they should go against this family values way of thinking. THERE lies the downfall in my opinion

I also disagree that we are falling apart. These are few and far apart (School shootings) and not the norm

I look at my 5 children (three grown) and say that with a straight and proud face :yh_wink

There are some REALLY great children in our midst. Just take a look around, Volunteer to coach little league, go out to a FFA function, etc.......

Point being this nay-sayer attitude will get us nowhere.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:07 pm

letha wrote: What is going through their minds when they do things like this ???

A schoolboy who killed nine people then himself, walked through a school in the US state of Minnesota shooting as he went, witnesses said.

BBC World News report
This kid had a love affair with Nazi ideology.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:37 pm

tmbsgrl wrote: The whole deal with the court house got me Bc since when has a court house let their guards down so much for this horrible thing to happen.

tmbsgrl:

Try this link and let me know wass you think...K?

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/pri ... article=46

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:16 pm

BabyRider wrote: Hold the phone...Are you actually saying that big houses and nice cars are a true demonstration of love??? If that's the case, I must not love my kids very much, because I drive a piece of crap car, and live in a tiny upper flat. My fiance drives an old car and lives in same said tiny upper flat. So he doesn't love his kids as much as someone who can afford a big house either?? WTF does money have to do with how much you love your kids? Please, PLEASE tell me that I am reading your post wrong. :-5

I'm sorry, you read it wrong but probably because I made it easy to read wrong.

We need to sacrifice the big house and car. The sacrifice of the big house, car or whatever, will demonstrate love and hopefully provide the time needed to properly raise children. When parents won't give the children the necessary time and attention because they are working to hard for the "good life", the children pay the price. We are now seeing the result of more than one generation of neglect.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:20 pm

If parents have to work just to make ends meet and provide for the children, the children know it. The love is there.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:28 pm

Isn't that why people work in the first place, to make ends meet, with the purpose of the good life being the ultimate goal that you never quite reach because the grass is always greener ???

Should add there with the exception of welfare states where you can just sit on your arse and the government will pay you for it :rolleyes:

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:07 pm

Clint wrote: I'm sorry, you read it wrong but probably because I made it easy to read wrong.

We need to sacrifice the big house and car. The sacrifice of the big house, car or whatever, will demonstrate love and hopefully provide the time needed to properly raise children. When parents won't give the children the necessary time and attention because they are working to hard for the "good life", the children pay the price. We are now seeing the result of more than one generation of neglect.OK, now THAT makes sense. And I agree, sometimes parents are more concerned with making the big bucks than parenting. And while we all want a better life for our kids, the single most important thing a person can do is raise a child with strong morals and respect. Respect for others and maybe even more important, respect for themselves. Just teaching right from wrong isn't always enough.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:32 pm

letha wrote: Isn't that why people work in the first place, to make ends meet, with the purpose of the good life being the ultimate goal that you never quite reach because the grass is always greener ???

Should add there with the exception of welfare states where you can just sit on your arse and the government will pay you for it :rolleyes:
I think it's different now than it used to be. My parents wore patches over their patches on their pants just to make ends meet. We didn't have big fancy vacations unless we could pay for them. People lived within their means, and the boundaries of their means was a one-income household (more often than not).

Today people seem to be convinced that if their kids are wearing hand-me-downs or they shop at used stores, they're bad people. Until we change our way of thinking, and re-align our priorities, I think the violence and hopelessness of our kids will continue.

(and that doesn't mean I think ALL parents and/or kids fall into this category. But the numbers of those who do certainly seem to be on the rise.)

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:18 pm

gmc wrote: After Dunblane there was also a call for air guns to be banned, recently in Glasgow a two year old was killed by one.

really? the air gun just leapt up and shot the two year old of its own volition?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:55 pm

anastrophe wrote: really? the air gun just leapt up and shot the two year old of its own volition?
let me expand on that just a little (as if anyone asked me to, or wants me to for that matter!).

listen to these sentences:

two men were killed by a knife last night, and a third is in critical condition.

in a vicious, unprovoked attack, a knifeman murdered two customers at the local mcdonalds.

three men were knifed-down yesterday in what is believed to be an incident of gang violence.

sound a bit odd, don't they. that's because the media have done a very effective job of making the weapon the focus in news stories when that weapon is a gun. with all other weapons, the focus is on the person doing the harm.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:41 pm

anastrophe wrote: let me expand on that just a little (as if anyone asked me to, or wants me to for that matter!).

listen to these sentences:

two men were killed by a knife last night, and a third is in critical condition.

in a vicious, unprovoked attack, a knifeman murdered two customers at the local mcdonalds.

three men were knifed-down yesterday in what is believed to be an incident of gang violence.

sound a bit odd, don't they. that's because the media have done a very effective job of making the weapon the focus in news stories when that weapon is a gun. with all other weapons, the focus is on the person doing the harm.

Excellent point.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:49 pm

i would like to add another perspective to the knife scenario, but i realize it is a bit specialized to my personal frame of reference...(i do , incidently, believe in honest citizens being armed.) when i approach a strange vehicle, and even if i am careful to stay out of what is known as the "kill zone" in my approach, there is a distinct possibility that the operator of the vehicle has a gun in their lap and will blow me away. not going to happen with a knife or other close-combat article.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:58 am

lady cop wrote: i would like to add another perspective to the knife scenario, but i realize it is a bit specialized to my personal frame of reference...(i do , incidently, believe in honest citizens being armed.) when i approach a strange vehicle, and even if i am careful to stay out of what is known as the "kill zone" in my approach, there is a distinct possibility that the operator of the vehicle has a gun in their lap and will blow me away. not going to happen with a knife or other close-combat article.
Lady Cop,

The it sounds like the laws only make sure it won't be an honest citizen who shoots you. The bad guys will have guns, even if they have to make their own. :-5