RedGlitter wrote: I understood K's post. It does seem like there is more empathy here for the criminal than there is for the victim. -2
I'm not sure how you work that out at all. Fairness and principle, yes.
Death Penalty
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Bill Sikes
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Death Penalty
Bill Sikes wrote: Please express your thoughts using different words. I have no idea what you mean.
:yh_tired
:yh_tired
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Bored_Wombat
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:33 am
Death Penalty
K.Snyder wrote: Wow...
Empathy: feeling of concern and understanding for another's situation or feelings. Also, an emotional feeling of identification or understanding of a work of art.
My judgement that GBH is not as bad as dead is not based on a misunderstanding of empathy.
Even tetraplegics return to their own basic happiness level when (and if) they get through the grieving process.
Dead is worse.
Empathy: feeling of concern and understanding for another's situation or feelings. Also, an emotional feeling of identification or understanding of a work of art.
My judgement that GBH is not as bad as dead is not based on a misunderstanding of empathy.
Even tetraplegics return to their own basic happiness level when (and if) they get through the grieving process.
Dead is worse.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
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K.Snyder wrote: [quote=sikes]Please express your thoughts using different words. I have no idea what you mean.
:yh_tired
Wow, how unhelpful. It seems I was right! Anyway, *I* tried.
:yh_tired
Wow, how unhelpful. It seems I was right! Anyway, *I* tried.
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RedGlitter
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I was referring mainly to the notion that a double amputeed rape victim is better off than a dead person. 
I think killing is a bad thing just like anyone else. But I see no problem serving it up as payment for certain acts committed. I guess that's my case in a nutshell.
I think killing is a bad thing just like anyone else. But I see no problem serving it up as payment for certain acts committed. I guess that's my case in a nutshell.
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RedGlitter
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Death Penalty
Bored_Wombat wrote: My judgement that GBH is not as bad as dead is not based on a misunderstanding of empathy.
Even tetraplegics return to their own basic happiness level when (and if) they get through the grieving process.
Dead is worse.
Wombat, says who? I mean seriously, you can get through the grieving process enough to function from day to day, and still be scarred for life.
Or maybe I should ask a question so I may understand better: WHY is death worse?
Even tetraplegics return to their own basic happiness level when (and if) they get through the grieving process.
Dead is worse.
Wombat, says who? I mean seriously, you can get through the grieving process enough to function from day to day, and still be scarred for life.
Or maybe I should ask a question so I may understand better: WHY is death worse?
Death Penalty
Diuretic wrote: Both abhorrent yes, but while the victim in one is violated and in the other is horribly mutilated they're not dead.
Yeah you're right...they're not dead...but you do understand that the person who was mutilated is relatively not accustomed to being mutilated for the rest of their life much like it is a custom for a woman to engage in sexual intercourse? Unless of course you remain celibate. But this is as much empathy as I can show, considering that I am not female.
Yeah you're right...they're not dead...but you do understand that the person who was mutilated is relatively not accustomed to being mutilated for the rest of their life much like it is a custom for a woman to engage in sexual intercourse? Unless of course you remain celibate. But this is as much empathy as I can show, considering that I am not female.
Death Penalty
Bill Sikes wrote: Wow, how unhelpful. It seems I was right! Anyway, *I* tried.
Nah...if you would read the thread it would explain itself.
Nah...if you would read the thread it would explain itself.
Death Penalty
Diuretic wrote: If a factory owner is negligent and their negligence sees a worker horribly mutilated how should the factory owner be punished?
:wah: What's the relevance of this question?
:wah: What's the relevance of this question?
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RedGlitter
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Death Penalty
Diuretic wrote: If a factory owner is negligent and their negligence sees a worker horribly mutilated how should the factory owner be punished?
I would say that the factory cover all the victim's medical bills, and pay a substantial restitution, although you can't really put a price on the victim's grief.
But...that said because negligence isn't the same thing as intent or evilness.
If however, say someone at the factory deliberately ran you over with a forklift because you got a raise and he didn't, then it's fry time.
I would say that the factory cover all the victim's medical bills, and pay a substantial restitution, although you can't really put a price on the victim's grief.
But...that said because negligence isn't the same thing as intent or evilness.
If however, say someone at the factory deliberately ran you over with a forklift because you got a raise and he didn't, then it's fry time.
Death Penalty
Bored_Wombat wrote: My judgement that GBH is not as bad as dead is not based on a misunderstanding of empathy.
Even tetraplegics return to their own basic happiness level when (and if) they get through the grieving process.
Dead is worse.
Post #209
Even tetraplegics return to their own basic happiness level when (and if) they get through the grieving process.
Dead is worse.
Post #209
Death Penalty
Diuretic wrote: Thanks RG.
What if the worker was killed due to the negligence of the factory owner. What should happen then? This is for anyone not just RG (who had the gumption to answer it).
This was my response, but then I failed to see what the relevance was to this thread, but for the sake of your insight I'll post it.
Punished based on the degree of incompetents pertaining to his obligation as a factory owner to ensure the safety and well being of his workers. It should be well within the policy the workers signed before starting work in general.
What if the worker was killed due to the negligence of the factory owner. What should happen then? This is for anyone not just RG (who had the gumption to answer it).
This was my response, but then I failed to see what the relevance was to this thread, but for the sake of your insight I'll post it.
Punished based on the degree of incompetents pertaining to his obligation as a factory owner to ensure the safety and well being of his workers. It should be well within the policy the workers signed before starting work in general.
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RedGlitter
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Death Penalty
Diuretic wrote: Thanks RG.
What if the worker was killed due to the negligence of the factory owner. What should happen then? This is for anyone not just RG (who had the gumption to answer it).
If he was killed due to negligence...and this negligence was a first time thing, meaning OSHA hadn't written up the factory before for said negligence, then I woul dstill go with my original reply- in this case, funeral costs, restitution to family.
If the factory had repeatedly been warned to clean up their act and hadn't done so, causing a death, then some people need to be imprisoned at the least.
Damn! I'm tired and goofed up! :-2
Let me try again! If repeated negligence caused a death, then forget prison- that is too little. I vote for a life.
What if the worker was killed due to the negligence of the factory owner. What should happen then? This is for anyone not just RG (who had the gumption to answer it).
If he was killed due to negligence...and this negligence was a first time thing, meaning OSHA hadn't written up the factory before for said negligence, then I woul dstill go with my original reply- in this case, funeral costs, restitution to family.
If the factory had repeatedly been warned to clean up their act and hadn't done so, causing a death, then some people need to be imprisoned at the least.
Damn! I'm tired and goofed up! :-2
Let me try again! If repeated negligence caused a death, then forget prison- that is too little. I vote for a life.
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Bored_Wombat
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Death Penalty
RedGlitter wrote: Wombat, says who? I mean seriously, you can get through the grieving process enough to function from day to day, and still be scarred for life.
Follows a cut and paste from "HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, DISABILITY, AND ASSISTED SUICIDE: An Examination of Relevant Empirical Evidence and Reply to Batavia (2000)" by Gill, Carol J. published in Psychology, Public Policy and Law Volume 6(2), June 2000, p 526–545.
...
Disability and Quality of Life
Assessments of People With Disabilities
A review of recent research on quality of life and life satisfaction of persons with disabilities yields little support for a differential response to suicidal feelings based on disability status. Researchers find that people with disabilities generally say they are glad to be alive, the majority rating the quality of their lives as good to excellent (Eisenberg & Saltz, 1991). Although some studies indicate that quality-of-life ratings are somewhat lower for persons with disabilities than for nondisabled control participants (Fuhrer, Rintala, Hart, Clearman, & Young, 1992; National Organization on Disability, 1998), other studies reveal no significant differences (e.g., Eisenberg & Saltz, 1991; Stensman, 1985), and some suggest that many persons perceive their lives as better after disability onset than before it (Ray & West, 1984; Weinberg, 1984). In cases where the ratings are lower for disability samples, social correlates of disability (such as inadequate social support, economic insecurity, and lack of meaningful activity or control over life choices) rather than physical factors may account for the difference (Asch, 1998; Craig, Hanock, & Dickson, 1994; Fuhrer et al., 1992; McColl & Rosenthal, 1994; Viemero & Krause, 1998).
A remarkably consistent finding across studies using widely varying samples and methods is that life satisfaction does not diminish with increasing degree of physical impairment (Craig et al., 1994; Cushman & Hassett, 1992; Dijkers, 1997; Fuhrer et al., 1992; Viemero & Krause, 1998). In fact, several studies indicate that persons with “severe physical disabilities, such as spinal cord quadriplegia and neuromuscular disabilities requiring mechanical ventilation, express greater life satisfaction than do those with less disabling conditions (Bach & Tilton, 1994; Whiteneck et al., 1985). Supporting this interesting pattern, a recently published comprehensive investigation of mortality and spinal cord injury demonstrated an inverse relationship between suicide and degree of impairment (Hartkopp, Bronnum-Hansen, Seidenschnur, & Biering-Sorensen, 1998). Although the investigators discovered that even extensively disabled individuals were capable of committing suicide, significantly fewer did so than persons with less extensive disabilities. This difference in suicide rate is not explained by functional capacity. Although most individuals had sufficient independent function to commit suicide by various means, the highest rates were among individuals whose injuries resulted in “marginal impairment. The investigators consider several explanations for this trend, including inadequate social support and high expectations imposed on persons who approach full recovery.
...
The cited references are pasted below:
Asch, A. (1998). Distracted by disability: The “difference of disability in the medical setting. Cambridge Quarterly of Healthcare Ethics, 7(1), 77–87.
Bach, J. R., & Tilton, M. C. (1994). Life satisfaction and well-being measures in ventilator assisted individuals with traumatic tetraplegia. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 75, 626–632.
Craig, A. R., Hancock, K. M., & Dickson, H. G. (1994). Spinal cord injury: A search for determinants of depression two years after the event. British Journal of Clinical Psychology, 33 (Pt. 2), 221–230.
Cushman, L. A., & Hassett, J. (1992). Spinal cord injury: 10 and 15 years after. Paraplegia, 30, 690–696.
Dijkers, M. (1997). Quality of life after spinal cord injury: A meta analysis of the effects of disablement components. Spinal Cord, 35, 829–840.
Eisenberg, M. G., & Saltz, C. C. (1991). Quality of life among spinal cord injured persons: Long term rehabilitation outcomes. Paraplegia, 29, 514–520.
Fuhrer, M. J., Rintala, D. H., Hart, K. A., Clearman, R., & Young, M. E. (1992). Relationship of life satisfaction to impairment, disability, and handicap among persons with spinal cord injury living in the community. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 73, 552–557.
Hartkopp, A., Bronnum-Hansen, H., Seidenschnur, A., & Biering-Sorensen, F. (1998). Suicide in a spinal cord injured population: Its relation to functional status. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 79, 1356–1361.
McColl, M., & Rosenthal, C. (1994). A model of resource needs of aging spinal cord injured men. Paraplegia, 32(4), 261–270.
Ray, C., & and West, J. (1984). Social, sexual and personal implications of paraplegia. Paraplegia, 22, 75–86.
Stensman, R. (1985). Severely mobility-disabled people assess the quality of their lives. Scandinavian Journal of Rehabilitation Medicine, 17, 87–99
Viemero, V., & Krause, C. (1998). Quality of life in individuals with physical disabilities. Psychotherapy & Psychosomatics, 67, 317–322.
Weinberg, N. (1984). Physically disabled people assess the quality of their lives. Rehabilitation Literature, 45(1–2), 12–15.
Whiteneck, G. G., Carter, R. E., Charlifue, S. W., Hall, K. M., Menter, R. R., Wilkerson, M. A., & Wilmot, C. B. (1985). A collaborative study of high quadriplegia (Rocky Mountain Spinal Cord Injury System Report to the National Institute of Handicapped Research). Unpublished report.
...
Overall yes they are scarred, but within a few weeks they are happy, and their disability is not in itself a source of unhappiness, (although they do think that they were ecstatically happy before their accidents.)
Follows a cut and paste from "HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, DISABILITY, AND ASSISTED SUICIDE: An Examination of Relevant Empirical Evidence and Reply to Batavia (2000)" by Gill, Carol J. published in Psychology, Public Policy and Law Volume 6(2), June 2000, p 526–545.
...
Disability and Quality of Life
Assessments of People With Disabilities
A review of recent research on quality of life and life satisfaction of persons with disabilities yields little support for a differential response to suicidal feelings based on disability status. Researchers find that people with disabilities generally say they are glad to be alive, the majority rating the quality of their lives as good to excellent (Eisenberg & Saltz, 1991). Although some studies indicate that quality-of-life ratings are somewhat lower for persons with disabilities than for nondisabled control participants (Fuhrer, Rintala, Hart, Clearman, & Young, 1992; National Organization on Disability, 1998), other studies reveal no significant differences (e.g., Eisenberg & Saltz, 1991; Stensman, 1985), and some suggest that many persons perceive their lives as better after disability onset than before it (Ray & West, 1984; Weinberg, 1984). In cases where the ratings are lower for disability samples, social correlates of disability (such as inadequate social support, economic insecurity, and lack of meaningful activity or control over life choices) rather than physical factors may account for the difference (Asch, 1998; Craig, Hanock, & Dickson, 1994; Fuhrer et al., 1992; McColl & Rosenthal, 1994; Viemero & Krause, 1998).
A remarkably consistent finding across studies using widely varying samples and methods is that life satisfaction does not diminish with increasing degree of physical impairment (Craig et al., 1994; Cushman & Hassett, 1992; Dijkers, 1997; Fuhrer et al., 1992; Viemero & Krause, 1998). In fact, several studies indicate that persons with “severe physical disabilities, such as spinal cord quadriplegia and neuromuscular disabilities requiring mechanical ventilation, express greater life satisfaction than do those with less disabling conditions (Bach & Tilton, 1994; Whiteneck et al., 1985). Supporting this interesting pattern, a recently published comprehensive investigation of mortality and spinal cord injury demonstrated an inverse relationship between suicide and degree of impairment (Hartkopp, Bronnum-Hansen, Seidenschnur, & Biering-Sorensen, 1998). Although the investigators discovered that even extensively disabled individuals were capable of committing suicide, significantly fewer did so than persons with less extensive disabilities. This difference in suicide rate is not explained by functional capacity. Although most individuals had sufficient independent function to commit suicide by various means, the highest rates were among individuals whose injuries resulted in “marginal impairment. The investigators consider several explanations for this trend, including inadequate social support and high expectations imposed on persons who approach full recovery.
...
The cited references are pasted below:
Asch, A. (1998). Distracted by disability: The “difference of disability in the medical setting. Cambridge Quarterly of Healthcare Ethics, 7(1), 77–87.
Bach, J. R., & Tilton, M. C. (1994). Life satisfaction and well-being measures in ventilator assisted individuals with traumatic tetraplegia. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 75, 626–632.
Craig, A. R., Hancock, K. M., & Dickson, H. G. (1994). Spinal cord injury: A search for determinants of depression two years after the event. British Journal of Clinical Psychology, 33 (Pt. 2), 221–230.
Cushman, L. A., & Hassett, J. (1992). Spinal cord injury: 10 and 15 years after. Paraplegia, 30, 690–696.
Dijkers, M. (1997). Quality of life after spinal cord injury: A meta analysis of the effects of disablement components. Spinal Cord, 35, 829–840.
Eisenberg, M. G., & Saltz, C. C. (1991). Quality of life among spinal cord injured persons: Long term rehabilitation outcomes. Paraplegia, 29, 514–520.
Fuhrer, M. J., Rintala, D. H., Hart, K. A., Clearman, R., & Young, M. E. (1992). Relationship of life satisfaction to impairment, disability, and handicap among persons with spinal cord injury living in the community. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 73, 552–557.
Hartkopp, A., Bronnum-Hansen, H., Seidenschnur, A., & Biering-Sorensen, F. (1998). Suicide in a spinal cord injured population: Its relation to functional status. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 79, 1356–1361.
McColl, M., & Rosenthal, C. (1994). A model of resource needs of aging spinal cord injured men. Paraplegia, 32(4), 261–270.
Ray, C., & and West, J. (1984). Social, sexual and personal implications of paraplegia. Paraplegia, 22, 75–86.
Stensman, R. (1985). Severely mobility-disabled people assess the quality of their lives. Scandinavian Journal of Rehabilitation Medicine, 17, 87–99
Viemero, V., & Krause, C. (1998). Quality of life in individuals with physical disabilities. Psychotherapy & Psychosomatics, 67, 317–322.
Weinberg, N. (1984). Physically disabled people assess the quality of their lives. Rehabilitation Literature, 45(1–2), 12–15.
Whiteneck, G. G., Carter, R. E., Charlifue, S. W., Hall, K. M., Menter, R. R., Wilkerson, M. A., & Wilmot, C. B. (1985). A collaborative study of high quadriplegia (Rocky Mountain Spinal Cord Injury System Report to the National Institute of Handicapped Research). Unpublished report.
...
Overall yes they are scarred, but within a few weeks they are happy, and their disability is not in itself a source of unhappiness, (although they do think that they were ecstatically happy before their accidents.)
Death Penalty
" life satisfaction does not diminish with increasing degree of physical impairment "
++++++++++++++++ I believe this supports my statements above about the great adaptability of the human being. We can be happy in many circumstances, even life in prison, without possibility of parole. The death penalty is a greater punishement than confinement in a prison situation.
++++++++++++++++ I believe this supports my statements above about the great adaptability of the human being. We can be happy in many circumstances, even life in prison, without possibility of parole. The death penalty is a greater punishement than confinement in a prison situation.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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DesignerGal
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Death Penalty
LUCASVILLE, Ohio (AP) -- Ohio executed a religious cult leader Tuesday for murdering a family of five followers who were taken one at a time to a barn, bound and shot to death. The youngest was a girl just 7 years old.
Jeffrey Lundgren, 56, died by injection at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility.
"I profess my love for God, my family, for my children, for Kathy (his wife). I am because you are," Lundgren said in his final statement.
The evidence against him in the deaths of the Avery family -- Dennis, 49, Cheryl, 46, Trina, 15, Rebecca, 13, and 7-year-old Karen -- was compelling.
Upset by what he saw as a lack of faith, Lundgren arranged a dinner hosted by cult members. Afterward, he and his followers led the family members one by one -- the father first, young Karen last -- to their deaths while the others unknowingly cleaned up after dinner.
Lundgren shot each victim two or three times while a running chain saw muffled the sound of the gunfire.
Lundgren argued at his trial in 1990 that he was prophet of God and therefore not deserving of the death penalty.
"It's not a figment of my imagination that I can in fact talk to God, that I can hear his voice," he had told the jurors. "I am a prophet of God. I am even more than a prophet."
Lundgren formed the cult with about 20 members in the northeast Ohio town of Kirtland after he was dismissed in 1987 as a lay minister of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, an offshoot of the Mormon church.
He said God commanded him, through interpretation of Scriptures, to kill the Avery family, who had moved from Missouri in 1987 to follow his teachings.
Lundgren's attorneys had tried to put off the execution, arguing that he should be allowed to join a lawsuit challenging Ohio's use of lethal injection as cruel and unusual punishment. They said his execution had more of a chance of being painful because he was diabetic and overweight at 275 pounds.
Late Monday, the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati issued an order allowing the execution to go forward. The U.S. Supreme Court refused a last-minute request to stop his execution Tuesday, and Gov. Bob Taft denied clemency.
Thirteen cult members were charged in the case, including Lundgren's wife, Alice, now 55, and their son, Damon, now 35, both serving life prison terms.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Jeffrey Lundgren, 56, died by injection at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility.
"I profess my love for God, my family, for my children, for Kathy (his wife). I am because you are," Lundgren said in his final statement.
The evidence against him in the deaths of the Avery family -- Dennis, 49, Cheryl, 46, Trina, 15, Rebecca, 13, and 7-year-old Karen -- was compelling.
Upset by what he saw as a lack of faith, Lundgren arranged a dinner hosted by cult members. Afterward, he and his followers led the family members one by one -- the father first, young Karen last -- to their deaths while the others unknowingly cleaned up after dinner.
Lundgren shot each victim two or three times while a running chain saw muffled the sound of the gunfire.
Lundgren argued at his trial in 1990 that he was prophet of God and therefore not deserving of the death penalty.
"It's not a figment of my imagination that I can in fact talk to God, that I can hear his voice," he had told the jurors. "I am a prophet of God. I am even more than a prophet."
Lundgren formed the cult with about 20 members in the northeast Ohio town of Kirtland after he was dismissed in 1987 as a lay minister of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, an offshoot of the Mormon church.
He said God commanded him, through interpretation of Scriptures, to kill the Avery family, who had moved from Missouri in 1987 to follow his teachings.
Lundgren's attorneys had tried to put off the execution, arguing that he should be allowed to join a lawsuit challenging Ohio's use of lethal injection as cruel and unusual punishment. They said his execution had more of a chance of being painful because he was diabetic and overweight at 275 pounds.
Late Monday, the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati issued an order allowing the execution to go forward. The U.S. Supreme Court refused a last-minute request to stop his execution Tuesday, and Gov. Bob Taft denied clemency.
Thirteen cult members were charged in the case, including Lundgren's wife, Alice, now 55, and their son, Damon, now 35, both serving life prison terms.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
HBIC
Death Penalty
So do we execute people for revenge? Is it supposed to make us feel better?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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DesignerGal
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Death Penalty
zinkyusa wrote: So do we execute people for revenge? Is it supposed to make us feel better?
I think we execute people to show them there are dire consequences. There has to be strict consequences for people who commit crimes otherwise people would be running rampant murdering each other.
I think we execute people to show them there are dire consequences. There has to be strict consequences for people who commit crimes otherwise people would be running rampant murdering each other.
HBIC
Death Penalty
DesignerGal wrote: I think we execute people to show them there are dire consequences. There has to be strict consequences for people who commit crimes otherwise people would be running rampant murdering each other.
DG that has been proven to be no deterrant at all...
DG that has been proven to be no deterrant at all...
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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DesignerGal
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Death Penalty
zinkyusa wrote: DG that has been proven to be no deterrant at all...
Im sure thats true, but I was just answering the question on why I think we execute people. Im sure the government doesnt do it for fun.
Im sure thats true, but I was just answering the question on why I think we execute people. Im sure the government doesnt do it for fun.
HBIC
Death Penalty
DesignerGal wrote: Im sure thats true, but I was just answering the question on why I think we execute people. Im sure the government doesnt do it for fun.
They do it because they perceive that is what people want. People want it for revenge and to feel good IMO...to me that makes it wrong..
They do it because they perceive that is what people want. People want it for revenge and to feel good IMO...to me that makes it wrong..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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DesignerGal
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Death Penalty
zinkyusa wrote: They do it because they perceive that is what people want. People want it for revenge and to feel good IMO...to me that makes it wrong..
Ok.
Ok.
HBIC
Death Penalty
DesignerGal wrote: Ok.
Oh stop being so easy to get along with;)
Oh stop being so easy to get along with;)
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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DesignerGal
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Death Penalty
I would also like to say, I started this thread to talk about the article in the original post. The subject not being wether the death penalty was right or wrong, but wether or not this guy should be able to get out of it because he is "too fat".
The death penalty isnt going away right now....so
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?
The death penalty isnt going away right now....so
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?
HBIC
Death Penalty
DesignerGal wrote: I would also like to say, I started this thread to talk about the article in the original post. The subject not being wether the death penalty was right or wrong, but wether or not this guy should be able to get out of it because he is "too fat".
The death penalty isnt going away right now....so
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?
Just to clarify I didn't say I was necessarily against the death penalty, I said we do it for for revenge and to make us feel good..and that is wrong IMO.
As for this fine specimen of a human being I think this just another trick to delay his execution..I think we are way to hung up on this idea of there being a humane way to kill someone. The process of dying sucks and when you sentence someone to death they are going to suffer in some manner. I think it's way more inhumane to let them live 15 or 20 years and become different people and then kill them..
The death penalty isnt going away right now....so
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?
Just to clarify I didn't say I was necessarily against the death penalty, I said we do it for for revenge and to make us feel good..and that is wrong IMO.
As for this fine specimen of a human being I think this just another trick to delay his execution..I think we are way to hung up on this idea of there being a humane way to kill someone. The process of dying sucks and when you sentence someone to death they are going to suffer in some manner. I think it's way more inhumane to let them live 15 or 20 years and become different people and then kill them..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Death Penalty
Diuretic wrote: Since the worker was killed as a result of the negligence of the factory owner then the penalty should be quite severe shouldn't it?
Any owner wouldn't purposely neglect their duty to ensure the safety of their workers given any sort of accident. Besides it's bad business, and upon an attempt to do so would yield an investigation, which comes down to the competence of the judicial system, not motive. In most cases I would have to consider that an accident, but upon an investigation, in which unintentional incompetence is ruled out, then yes I would have to say it should be rather severe.
Any owner wouldn't purposely neglect their duty to ensure the safety of their workers given any sort of accident. Besides it's bad business, and upon an attempt to do so would yield an investigation, which comes down to the competence of the judicial system, not motive. In most cases I would have to consider that an accident, but upon an investigation, in which unintentional incompetence is ruled out, then yes I would have to say it should be rather severe.
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RedGlitter
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Death Penalty
DesignerGal wrote:
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?
I don't care what his reasons are. Fat or not, lethal injection is a lamea$$ way to die. Far too humane. Where does he get off thinking he deserves consideration from us? Did he give consideration to those victims?!
Q: Am I the only one here that thinks revenge/avenging a wrongful killing is okay??
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?
I don't care what his reasons are. Fat or not, lethal injection is a lamea$$ way to die. Far too humane. Where does he get off thinking he deserves consideration from us? Did he give consideration to those victims?!
Q: Am I the only one here that thinks revenge/avenging a wrongful killing is okay??
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Bored_Wombat
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Death Penalty
zinkyusa wrote: Just to clarify I didn't say I was necessarily against the death penalty, I said we do it for for revenge and to make us feel good..and that is wrong IMO.
Under what circumstances would you support the death penalty?
Under what circumstances would you support the death penalty?
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Accountable
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Death Penalty
zinkyusa wrote: DG that has been proven to be no deterrant at all...It deters that one. 
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Accountable
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Death Penalty
RedGlitter wrote: I don't care what his reasons are. Fat or not, lethal injection is a lamea$$ way to die. Far too humane. Where does he get off thinking he deserves consideration from us? Did he give consideration to those victims?!
Q: Am I the only one here that thinks revenge/avenging a wrongful killing is okay??I don't. A murderer is a danger to society, and if deemed "unfixable", should be put to death. Method? I don't see any reason to spend more money in such an endeavor than the cost of a large syringe and needle - one per prison for multiple uses. A large injection of air will kill quickly, I understand.
Q: Am I the only one here that thinks revenge/avenging a wrongful killing is okay??
I don't. A murderer is a danger to society, and if deemed "unfixable", should be put to death. Method? I don't see any reason to spend more money in such an endeavor than the cost of a large syringe and needle - one per prison for multiple uses. A large injection of air will kill quickly, I understand.Death Penalty
Accountable wrote: It deters that one.
Can't argue with that.
Can't argue with that.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Death Penalty
Bored_Wombat wrote: Under what circumstances would you support the death penalty?
I don't know wombat I'll have to think about it. It's still to easy to make a mistake..
I don't know wombat I'll have to think about it. It's still to easy to make a mistake..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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DesignerGal
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Bored_Wombat
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Death Penalty
Accountable wrote: ... if deemed "unfixable", ...
Deemed?
Deemed?
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Bored_Wombat
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Death Penalty
DesignerGal wrote:
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?
Gee DesignerGal, I just don't know.
Execution is pretty final. You'd have to expect the fellow's lawyer to take the fight as fully as possible down every possible avenue, and when all possibilities are exhausted, stall for time: after all the law may change.
Again, it has to be noted that this dude thought he was doing the will of God. He needs medication and psychiatric care, not a lethal injection. On the SI scale of nuttiness, he's four and a half pounds of macadamias.
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?
Gee DesignerGal, I just don't know.
Execution is pretty final. You'd have to expect the fellow's lawyer to take the fight as fully as possible down every possible avenue, and when all possibilities are exhausted, stall for time: after all the law may change.
Again, it has to be noted that this dude thought he was doing the will of God. He needs medication and psychiatric care, not a lethal injection. On the SI scale of nuttiness, he's four and a half pounds of macadamias.
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RedGlitter
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Death Penalty
Wombat-
Hitler thought he was doing God's work too when he tried to create an Aryan world. Did we ever decide if he was just a nutcase or if he was evil? I vote for evil. I have a hard time believing that everyone who kills is a mental case and can or should be rehabbed. Just an example.
Hitler thought he was doing God's work too when he tried to create an Aryan world. Did we ever decide if he was just a nutcase or if he was evil? I vote for evil. I have a hard time believing that everyone who kills is a mental case and can or should be rehabbed. Just an example.
Death Penalty
Diuretic wrote: Points taken K. I was thinking about the situation where the owner wanted to maximise profits by deliberately not spending money on what he/she/it considered a cost, the safety of the workers and took a sort of risk management approach to it. My point in bringing these points up was to trigger some discussion about deterrence effect.
I think that may be better evaluated depending on the exact type of facility that person actually runs...You have to look at what type of accident it was that occurred, and was it something that could have been extremely prevented, as opposed to it being truly a "freak" accident. Some people like to cut corners, but if someone were to die at the expense of the owner, which may eventually turn out to be something that would have ended in the same result even if the owner had complied with the laws of safety in the work place. To me, I much rather like to emphasize motive more than anything pertaining to a crime, as opposed to what extent that crime is carried out. Lets face it, we're all capable of mistakes...but we all should be held responsible for our choices that we make. (My opinion)
I think that may be better evaluated depending on the exact type of facility that person actually runs...You have to look at what type of accident it was that occurred, and was it something that could have been extremely prevented, as opposed to it being truly a "freak" accident. Some people like to cut corners, but if someone were to die at the expense of the owner, which may eventually turn out to be something that would have ended in the same result even if the owner had complied with the laws of safety in the work place. To me, I much rather like to emphasize motive more than anything pertaining to a crime, as opposed to what extent that crime is carried out. Lets face it, we're all capable of mistakes...but we all should be held responsible for our choices that we make. (My opinion)
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Accountable
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Death Penalty
DesignerGal wrote: I would also like to say, I started this thread to talk about the article in the original post. The subject not being wether the death penalty was right or wrong, but wether or not this guy should be able to get out of it because he is "too fat".
The death penalty isnt going away right now....so
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?If the issue is the pain of (dying? dieing?) death, then the answer isn't to stop the execution, but to make it more pleasant.
Maybe he'd enjoy some dancing girls to perform while he's getting injected.
This lawyer is desperately throwing any crap he can, hoping something sticks. His argument should never have been given the attention it's gotten.
The death penalty isnt going away right now....so
What do you (anyone, generally speaking) think of his reasons for wanting to commute his sentence to life? Should he be killed in some other way if lethal injection is considered inhumane? Should he get a life sentence with no parole?If the issue is the pain of (dying? dieing?) death, then the answer isn't to stop the execution, but to make it more pleasant.
Maybe he'd enjoy some dancing girls to perform while he's getting injected.
This lawyer is desperately throwing any crap he can, hoping something sticks. His argument should never have been given the attention it's gotten.
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Bored_Wombat
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Death Penalty
RedGlitter wrote: Wombat-
Hitler thought he was doing God's work too when he tried to create an Aryan world. Did we ever decide if he was just a nutcase or if he was evil? I vote for evil. I have a hard time believing that everyone who kills is a mental case and can or should be rehabbed. Just an example.
I think the consensus is he was an evil nutcase. But you get that losing wars. I'm sure if he'd have won, history would have recorded that Stalin and Churchill were evil. (And perhaps it does).
But I think also that the consensus is that his religious rhetoric was for the benefit of the masses. He wasn't a Christian any more than the figureheads of today's hegemonies.
Hitler thought he was doing God's work too when he tried to create an Aryan world. Did we ever decide if he was just a nutcase or if he was evil? I vote for evil. I have a hard time believing that everyone who kills is a mental case and can or should be rehabbed. Just an example.
I think the consensus is he was an evil nutcase. But you get that losing wars. I'm sure if he'd have won, history would have recorded that Stalin and Churchill were evil. (And perhaps it does).
But I think also that the consensus is that his religious rhetoric was for the benefit of the masses. He wasn't a Christian any more than the figureheads of today's hegemonies.