Bait and Switch

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:23 pm

Suppose you found the ideal job and you applied for it. Say you became a candidate and went through a series of interviews with a lot of people within the organization. The intervies were all about finding your strength and they did, and they said it was a match, and they hired you. It's a perfect match in what you think is a stable organization.

You are excited because you found a job that needs what you are strong in so you sell your house and move to take the job. Suppose your spouse resigns their position to move with you and takes a big cut in pay.

Less than 6 months later your new boss's boss who was one of those who interviewed you, decides to make some big changes and fires your boss. Your boss's replacement shows up and decides they don't need your position and the strengths they so badly needed a few months ago aren't important anymore. Your only counterpart resigns under pressure so now you are waiting for the other shoe to drop (you). You are needing a job because of the expense of moving and losing your spouses income. The new boss is putting the pressure on in hopes you will resign like your counterpart and the pressure includes finding fault with everything you do.

What do you do?

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:41 pm

??

Blow your stinkin brains out with a 12 gauge shotgun?

Nah. What else is there to do...you would have to find another job, even if that meant moving again. If you were competent enough to be offered a job as exuberant as you have described, then you should have no problem in finding another job sufficient enough to meet your needs. You just may have to sacrifice a few things during the transition.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:25 pm

:yh_worshp You are all great!!! And you give good advice too,:yh_worshp

CrÃ¨me brÃ»lÃ©e · Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:32 pm

Clint wrote: :yh_worshp You are all great!!! And you give good advice too,:yh_worshp

Whatever you do, don't let them make you quit.

Don't let them screw up your unemployment , if it comes to that.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:47 pm

Clint wrote: :yh_worshp You are all great!!! And you give good advice too,:yh_worshpEverything Pinky said. Also, contact the fired boss. What's he/she up to? Maybe they'd like to bring you on board.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:55 pm

Thank you AC. I've done that and there is a possibility there.

CrÃ¨me brÃ»lÃ©e · Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:58 pm

Is this a large company Clint?

are you evan off your probation period yet?

CrÃ¨me brÃ»lÃ©e · Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:07 pm

Pinky wrote: Who's Evan?

there is no capital.....and it's even (as if :sneaky: )

CrÃ¨me brÃ»lÃ©e · Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:12 pm

Pinky wrote: Nah
that sounds like a fish.:-3

CrÃ¨me brÃ»lÃ©e · Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:29 pm

Pinky wrote: Huh? What kind of fish?

It sounds like they should be in a tin, like sardines.

That's what it sounded like when I first heard it.

CrÃ¨me brÃ»lÃ©e · Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:33 pm

Pinky wrote: It may have been tuna, you never know.

Nah, Knakerd doesnt like a Tuna tin to me.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:16 am

That exact scenario happened to me. Before leaving Georgia, to return to Virginia, I lined up a great job. Initially we corresponded by mail. I flew back and forth twice for 2 interviews. In my case, the owner hired me. I wont tell my story because this is your thread, but for various reasons I had to leave the position. It was like he decided he didnt want me, once I was on the job. It was awful. Ive been piecing a living together since last April. Youve moved. The actions of the compamy are inconsiderate. Id just start looking for a job in the new location. What else can you do?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:41 am

weeder wrote: That exact scenario happened to me. Before leaving Georgia, to return to Virginia, I lined up a great job. Initially we corresponded by mail. I flew back and forth twice for 2 interviews. In my case, the owner hired me. I wont tell my story because this is your thread, but for various reasons I had to leave the position. It was like he decided he didnt want me, once I was on the job. It was awful. Ive been piecing a living together since last April. Youve moved. The actions of the compamy are inconsiderate. Id just start looking for a job in the new location. What else can you do?
Thank you. It's like they ordered a part in the mail and when they got it just threw it away. Cold, and it isn't a good business practice.

Please feel free to tell your story here if you like. I would like to read it and at least it would be on the subject of the thread.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:19 pm

Clint

I'm so sorry you have to go through this

I have been laid off from jobs four times in my life. Each one became a little bit harder from which to recover, mentally and emotionally.

I wish you only the *very best*. You know that you'll get a ton of support from everyone here in the Garden, including me :-6

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:17 pm

Clint wrote: Thank you. It's like they ordered a part in the mail and when they got it just threw it away. Cold, and it isn't a good business practice.

Please feel free to tell your story here if you like. I would like to read it and at least it would be on the subject of the thread.
Clint, There arent many business owners or employers who exercise business with a concience anymore. This is a dog eat dog world, unfortunately. Its every man for himself and the buck is the bottom line. I knew these things 15 years ago, or discovered it as I fought to make my way, as head of my household and working in a field occupied predominately by men. 15 years ago I walked off an excellent paying job and vowed never to work for anyone again. I didnt walk off because I was mistreated, or treated unfairly.. I left because my co workers.. the people who took direction from me were treated disrespectfully. I managed to maintain self employment for those 15 years. I decided last spring that I was ready to try again, being an employee as I felt my hiatis had taught me how to be appreciative of receiving a paycheck without the headaches that accompany ownership. Like you I moved, restructured my life, and studied for months in the areas I was weak in so that I might give my all to the position I was given. My interviews in Virginia were held at the home of the owner. On both ocassions I was invited for lunch and the owners wife was present. I felt flattered by the invitations that were given in order to provide a relaxed and informal atmosphere in which we could discuss all aspects of the job. The owners would also have the opportunity to observe my behavior in an informal setting. Could I carry the ball gracefully and walk the fine line of business combined with socializing. ( Im no dummy) I got the distinct impression that the owners wife was very impressed by my assertive, outgoing, personality. And quite taken with my independant life style, as she had always been a stay at home spouse. I didnt like the way he ordered her around.. and as I left their home the second time.. having accepted the position... a small voice in my head said " Weeder, she pushed him to hire a woman, and he did it to give her her way. But I ignored it. I knew he had the reputation of being difficult. That didnt frighten me as I have worked for difficult and demanding bosses all of my life. It is actually more valuable to me to receive the approval of these difficult individuals than to slide by with superiors who know so little that they are very easy to please. Well, the man was rude, difficult, and disrespectful to me from my first day on the job. I was stunned, confused, and frightened because obviously I needed my job to survive. He ignored me, left me out of meetings, discussed business plans with men who were my subordinates. and just generally disrespected me in any way he could. I became a nervous wreck and things rapidly got to the point where I dreaded going in there in the morning. Its impossible for me to describe all of the altercations I had with him. One day, he asked me to do something... I agreed, of course, and immediately moved to comply. He slithered up beside me and whispered in my ear " Yes, sir, she replied in a respectful tone of voice" I felt sick. I wasnt subserviant enough, I didnt know my place. The little voice that whispered in my ear the day I accepted the position was correct. I walked off the job that day. I had written a letter of resignation giving two weeks notice. In light of the abuse and realizing that he had no sense or responsibility regarding the arrangements I had made to take the job, I knew that continuing to operate within the realms of professional conduct was simply a waste of time. And quite frankly, I felt so disrespected and abused that I just didnt care anymore. At that point I was willing to face poverty than to have to look at this disrespecful animal for one more day. Good paying jobs are few and far between in the beautiful but rural community whare I live. I have been doing consulting, some property maintenance... and yes.. Ill say it.. waitressing at night to get by. I have one job offer in Georgia and another one just came through in New York.I am swimming mentally in a sea of confusion ( which is the result of everything I have been through) trying to decide what to do. I dont know what you do for a living Clint.... but I will tell you this. It is wise to develop the tools required to always rely on oneself and such a blessing never to have to be subjected to the disrespect and incondideration of short sighted, disrespectful employers who use people and who have absolutely no regard for the importance of self respect that is due to everyman.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:28 pm

cherandbuster wrote: Clint

I'm so sorry you have to go through this

I have been laid off from jobs four times in my life. Each one became a little bit harder from which to recover, mentally and emotionally.

I wish you only the *very best*. You know that you'll get a ton of support from everyone here in the Garden, including me :-6
Thank you.

This is the second time in a row for me. The last time was very similar to this. New adminstrator and out the door you go. The administrator that did that is now facing Federal charges for the way he handled things. I thought this one would be different.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:15 pm

weeder wrote: Clint, There arent many business owners or employers who exercise business with a concience anymore. This is a dog eat dog world, unfortunately. Its every man for himself and the buck is the bottom line. I knew these things 15 years ago, or discovered it as I fought to make my way, as head of my household and working in a field occupied predominately by men. 15 years ago I walked off an excellent paying job and vowed never to work for anyone again. I didnt walk off because I was mistreated, or treated unfairly.. I left because my co workers.. the people who took direction from me were treated disrespectfully. I managed to maintain self employment for those 15 years. I decided last spring that I was ready to try again, being an employee as I felt my hiatis had taught me how to be appreciative of receiving a paycheck without the headaches that accompany ownership. Like you I moved, restructured my life, and studied for months in the areas I was weak in so that I might give my all to the position I was given. My interviews in Virginia were held at the home of the owner. On both ocassions I was invited for lunch and the owners wife was present. I felt flattered by the invitations that were given in order to provide a relaxed and informal atmosphere in which we could discuss all aspects of the job. The owners would also have the opportunity to observe my behavior in an informal setting. Could I carry the ball gracefully and walk the fine line of business combined with socializing. ( Im no dummy) I got the distinct impression that the owners wife was very impressed by my assertive, outgoing, personality. And quite taken with my independant life style, as she had always been a stay at home spouse. I didnt like the way he ordered her around.. and as I left their home the second time.. having accepted the position... a small voice in my head said " Weeder, she pushed him to hire a woman, and he did it to give her her way. But I ignored it. I knew he had the reputation of being difficult. That didnt frighten me as I have worked for difficult and demanding bosses all of my life. It is actually more valuable to me to receive the approval of these difficult individuals than to slide by with superiors who know so little that they are very easy to please. Well, the man was rude, difficult, and disrespectful to me from my first day on the job. I was stunned, confused, and frightened because obviously I needed my job to survive. He ignored me, left me out of meetings, discussed business plans with men who were my subordinates. and just generally disrespected me in any way he could. I became a nervous wreck and things rapidly got to the point where I dreaded going in there in the morning. Its impossible for me to describe all of the altercations I had with him. One day, he asked me to do something... I agreed, of course, and immediately moved to comply. He slithered up beside me and whispered in my ear " Yes, sir, she replied in a respectful tone of voice" I felt sick. I wasnt subserviant enough, I didnt know my place. The little voice that whispered in my ear the day I accepted the position was correct. I walked off the job that day. I had written a letter of resignation giving two weeks notice. In light of the abuse and realizing that he had no sense or responsibility regarding the arrangements I had made to take the job, I knew that continuing to operate within the realms of professional conduct was simply a waste of time. And quite frankly, I felt so disrespected and abused that I just didnt care anymore. At that point I was willing to face poverty than to have to look at this disrespecful animal for one more day. Good paying jobs are few and far between in the beautiful but rural community whare I live. I have been doing consulting, some property maintenance... and yes.. Ill say it.. waitressing at night to get by. I have one job offer in Georgia and another one just came through in New York.I am swimming mentally in a sea of confusion ( which is the result of everything I have been through) trying to decide what to do. I dont know what you do for a living Clint.... but I will tell you this. It is wise to develop the tools required to always rely on oneself and such a blessing never to have to be subjected to the disrespect and incondideration of short sighted, disrespectful employers who use people and who have absolutely no regard for the importance of self respect that is due to everyman.
Wow! That guy didn't deserve good employees. I'm glad you had the courage to get out of there.

I thought about going into business for myself the last time and now I'm thinking about it again. I too have been in business before and know how difficult it is but I'm thinking that if it will help avoid what feels like slavery, it may be the best option. I'll be 59 in a couple of months and I'm getting tired of chaning directions but way to young to quit working.

I sure hope things begin to sort out for you soon. You sound like someone who will land on both feet. It sounds like the place you are located is important to you. Quality of life doesn't depend on a good job or a good pay check.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:12 am

Like you, I will be 55 this January. I am also thinking of turning down both job offers and starting up for myself again this spring. There arent any guarantees in life and I think I hold my freedom and self respect more dearly, than a paycheck. The scary part is that I think this is the last hoorah. I certainly wont get offered anything great at 60. I think we just have to think when faced with these circumstances that " everything happens for a reason.

Supersilly@rse · Post by **Supersilly@rse** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:17 am

Clint wrote: Suppose you found the ideal job and you applied for it. Say you became a candidate and went through a series of interviews with a lot of people within the organization. The intervies were all about finding your strength and they did, and they said it was a match, and they hired you. It's a perfect match in what you think is a stable organization.

You are excited because you found a job that needs what you are strong in so you sell your house and move to take the job. Suppose your spouse resigns their position to move with you and takes a big cut in pay.

Less than 6 months later your new boss's boss who was one of those who interviewed you, decides to make some big changes and fires your boss. Your boss's replacement shows up and decides they don't need your position and the strengths they so badly needed a few months ago aren't important anymore. Your only counterpart resigns under pressure so now you are waiting for the other shoe to drop (you). You are needing a job because of the expense of moving and losing your spouses income. The new boss is putting the pressure on in hopes you will resign like your counterpart and the pressure includes finding fault with everything you do.

What do you do?

What do you do? Dependant on your local country law there are a few things you can do.

If the pressure is unreasonable, then raise this formally. Then you're probably protected as awhilstle blower. If the pressure is high, then this is surely a pivotal role!!!!!! If the role wasn't needed you'd be twiddling your thumbs!

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:33 am

weeder wrote: Like you, I will be 55 this January. I am also thinking of turning down both job offers and starting up for myself again this spring. There arent any guarantees in life and I think I hold my freedom and self respect more dearly, than a paycheck. The scary part is that I think this is the last hoorah. I certainly wont get offered anything great at 60. I think we just have to think when faced with these circumstances that " everything happens for a reason.
And...may I add...a good reason. When I look at it that way, I can start getting excited about the future. I know it, I just have to accept it.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:06 pm

I just realized some sort of an update is in order.

Iâ€™m still employed. The switch is running into trouble. The bad players are fighting for their survival now and Iâ€™m getting stronger. I had been way too passive. When I decided I didnâ€™t have anything to lose so I may as well take the gloves off, things began to turn around. Iâ€™m still in a rough patch but there is a lot more hope now.

This could get very interesting and Iâ€™m going to approach it as an interesting experience. Iâ€™ve been through rough patches before and by the grace of God Iâ€™ve made it through to see better days each time. I donâ€™t know why this should be any different.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:27 am

Clint;454603 wrote: I just realized some sort of an update is in order.

Iâ€™m still employed. The switch is running into trouble. The bad players are fighting for their survival now and Iâ€™m getting stronger. I had been way too passive. When I decided I didnâ€™t have anything to lose so I may as well take the gloves off, things began to turn around. Iâ€™m still in a rough patch but there is a lot more hope now.

This could get very interesting and Iâ€™m going to approach it as an interesting experience. Iâ€™ve been through rough patches before and by the grace of God Iâ€™ve made it through to see better days each time. I donâ€™t know why this should be any different.
Atta boy! :yh_clap Haven't you found it incredibly empowering at work, once you realize that it's your decision to stay there, rather than their decision to keep you? The very idea allows you to walk taller, talk straighter, and get more done.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:57 pm

Accountable;454707 wrote: Atta boy! :yh_clap Haven't you found it incredibly empowering at work, once you realize that it's your decision to stay there, rather than their decision to keep you? The very idea allows you to walk taller, talk straighter, and get more done.

All true. :yh_worshp They can still fire me but that's nothing new. I do have options and some of them might be better than where I am so I'm walk'n taller, talk'n straighter and gett'n more done.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:06 pm

Clint and Weeder, both of your stores are very inspirational. Thanks for sharing them..

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:09 pm

zinkyusa;455260 wrote: Clint and Weeder, both of your stores are very inspirational. Thanks for sharing them..

My pleasure! I'm the one being inspired by all of you.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:12 pm

Glad to hear your in a good place Clint. I decided to turn down both job offers. It took a lot of soul searching, But I know deep in my heart that I have been self employed for too long to go back into the harness. I also do not want to leave Virginia. And so right now... Im simply a waitress. But it was my choice.. so I feel much better. I am going to start up my landscaping business again this spring. Then pray to God that I stay healthy enough for another 15 years to keep on going. Ah, what is life? The best layed plans go askew.... Ive spent a lifetime worried about money and wishing I could be somebody. It wasnt in the cards, But I get a tremendous kick out of having 10 days off.. when I decide to take them, after busting my back for 300 and 55. There are a couple of women in my town who gave me inspiration. One was the editor of a local " Free" news publication. Very left wing for my area. ( She has guts) She closed down and started up again 2 years later. Another is an interior designer, She left the area to go to Maine... came back, and shes starting up again. I can do it too. A toast to us all. Life goes on.. and we decide where our lives are going.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:19 pm

weeder;455537 wrote: Glad to hear your in a good place Clint. I decided to turn down both job offers. It took a lot of soul searching, But I know deep in my heart that I have been self employed for too long to go back into the harness. I also do not want to leave Virginia. And so right now... Im simply a waitress. But it was my choice.. so I feel much better. I am going to start up my landscaping business again this spring. Then pray to God that I stay healthy enough for another 15 years to keep on going. Ah, what is life? The best layed plans go askew.... Ive spent a lifetime worried about money and wishing I could be somebody. It wasnt in the cards, But I get a tremendous kick out of having 10 days off.. when I decide to take them, after busting my back for 300 and 55. There are a couple of women in my town who gave me inspiration. One was the editor of a local " Free" news publication. Very left wing for my area. ( She has guts) She closed down and started up again 2 years later. Another is an interior designer, She left the area to go to Maine... came back, and shes starting up again. I can do it too. A toast to us all. Life goes on.. and we decide where our lives are going.

When it comes to being somebody, in my estimation you already are. You've made decisions that reflect character and you are sticking with your plan to live where you want to live. Too often we think it's about what we do when it's really about who we become. Many people have done important sounding jobs and never became "somebody". A lot of the people who are in the news today are really nobody with the spotlight pointed at them in error.

I'll bet you are somebody in the lives of many and just don't realize it.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:25 pm

Itâ€™s time for another update.

Since the last one everything went south again. The same games started back up and like the two before me, I finally folded my tent. They were successful in removing the top three in the organization just like they had planned all along.

It isnâ€™t worth the battleâ€¦it was only a job and if I canâ€™t find one to replace it Iâ€™ll have to make one. Iâ€™m going to be 60 before Iâ€™m 59 again so Iâ€™m not looking for a career path to president anymore:wah: . That should make finding something a lot easier. It was reassuring to get an unsolicited call from a headhunter a couple of days agoâ€¦so hereâ€™s hoping.

All the advice I got here was very useful.

Thank you!!!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:24 pm

Clint;545647 wrote: Itâ€™s time for another update.

Since the last one everything went south again. The same games started back up and like the two before me, I finally folded my tent. They were successful in removing the top three in the organization just like they had planned all along.

It isnâ€™t worth the battleâ€¦it was only a job and if I canâ€™t find one to replace it Iâ€™ll have to make one. Iâ€™m going to be 60 before Iâ€™m 59 again so Iâ€™m not looking for a career path to president anymore:wah: . That should make finding something a lot easier. It was reassuring to get an unsolicited call from a headhunter a couple of days agoâ€¦so hereâ€™s hoping.

All the advice I got here was very useful.

Thank you!!!
Ever thought of consulting? I'm sure alot of small businessmen could use some of your input.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:33 pm

Accountable;545792 wrote: Ever thought of consulting? I'm sure alot of small businessmen could use some of your input.

Yes, I have. The other thing I'd like to do is teach leadership. It's something have some passion for and others have told me I should. I'm not real sure how to get started though.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:39 am

Clint;545804 wrote: Yes, I have. The other thing I'd like to do is teach leadership. It's something have some passion for and others have told me I should. I'm not real sure how to get started though.
These guys do leadership seminars, but it's lots of travel time.

www.nationalseminarstraining.com

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:06 am

Accountable;546136 wrote: These guys do leadership seminars, but it's lots of travel time.

www.nationalseminarstraining.com

Thank you my friend. I'm constantly amazed at the true concern and friendship you demonstrate here. I don't agree with you on everything but your lead by examle is one I'm personally challenged to follow.

I have looked into other organizations like this one. From what I read they have a great approach. I'm going to do some more research and I have to decide if I want to travel again.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:31 am

Clint;546218 wrote: Thank you my friend. I'm constantly amazed at the true concern and friendship you demonstrate here. I don't agree with you on everything but your lead by examle is one I'm personally challenged to follow.

I have looked into other organizations like this one. From what I read they have a great approach. I'm going to do some more research and I have to decide if I want to travel again.
Aw shucks and pshaw! We share this one passion in spades, and I'm always hungry to talk and promote leadership development. If I were single, I'd be up to my neck in these kinds of seminars, but my passion for my beloved is more important than this passion, and I still haven't convinced her she'd like me better from afar.