TERRI SCHIAVO~remove feeding tube?

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:50 am

Unless a higher court grants a stay, Michael Schiavo will be able to begin the slow, painful death of his wife, Theresa Schindler-Schiavo by starvation at 1 p.m. on Friday, March 18.http://www.theempirejournal.com/0225057 ... appeal.htm

Looks like unless the lawmakers step in, the courts are going to allow her to be killed.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:53 am

Good. Allow her to rest, she'll feel better in the next life. (There's no pain there.) Everyone's bemoaning the loss of her in this life as if that's all there is. Don't worry, there is another life, I've been there.

With the morphine they'll give her, she won't feel a thing. Godspeed, Teri!

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:07 am

Allow her to be killed? First of all, you are assuming there is an actual afterlife. I personally believe this is it. You do not know that it is her wishes to die. Starving one to death is not even in the same accord to removing the plug. Deciding to starve someone is a proactivc step to induce death via removing the life giving nutrients the body needs to function. It is a process that can take many weeks to achieve its desired goal of death. Removing a plug is denying artificial means to oxygenate the body. It often results in a death within minutes, maybe a few hours.

Terry has never vocalized a wish to die to anyone accept to her husband according to hearsay, hearsay that is not supposedly legally admissable according to state laws.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:47 am

Beth wrote: First of all, you are assuming there is an actual afterlife.

I'm not assuming a thing. I know it for a fact. I have clinically died before, and been brought back to life.

You do not know that it is her wishes to die.

And you do not know if it is her wish to live.

Deciding to starve someone is a process that can take many weeks.

5 days. That's how long it took my mother. And she never felt any pain, the morphine is given regularly and liberally.

Terry has never vocalized a wish to die to anyone accept to her husband .

To hell with law, she told her husband, that's good enough for me. Rest in Peace, Terri. I'll see you and talk to you on the other side.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:03 am

just to add a couple items for the record, Terri's parents are trying to find a legal method to divorce her from her husband on the grounds he lives with and has kids with another woman. also, it was reported there is an investigation into allegations she has been neglected and abused by her husband.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:16 am

Jives wrote: I'm not assuming a thing. I know it for a fact. I have clinically died before, and been brought back to life. I don't consider that fact, in fact, it isn't fact. Speaking as someone who has had a near death experience, they are very convincing, but there are many explanations for them, explanations that do not need something supernatural to substanciate them.

And you do not know if it is her wish to live.

Since there is no living will, one must assume it is. The only person who claims that Terry wished not to receive life support is her husband, a man who does not seem to have the best interests for her. He is living with a woman, has children by her, within a short period of time after winning a large settlement for a trust for Terry, he started fighting to have the tube removed. Not to mention allegations that have been made for years about him abusing Terry.

5 days. That's how long it took my mother. And she never felt any pain, the morphine is given regularly and liberally.

Not everyone takes five days, some people last for weeks. My husband's great uncle took three weeks.

To hell with law, she told her husband, that's good enough for me. Rest in Peace, Terri. I'll see you and talk to you on the other side.
You don't know that she told her husband. When Shiavo sued doctors for $20 million for the care of Terry in 1992, he explained that he need the money to care for her for the duration of her life expectancy of 51. He also told the courts that he wanted to become a nurse so to help care for his wife as long as she lived. Then in August of 1993, he instructed doctors not to treat his wife for a potentially life threatening infection and again in 1995. Oh, this is after the courts granted a $1.4 million award to Terry and a $600,000 award to Michael.

I sincerely hope that the lawmakers step in and constitutionally remove Schivao's guardianship of his wife. There seems to be evidence to suggest that Terry was responding well to rehabilitation in the 90's. That there was the possibility that she could have learned to swallow again and that the husband blatanly refused the parents to continue therapy for his wife.

Rest in peace, huh? I seem to handle abuse in a different way.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:42 am

Beth wrote: I don't consider that fact, in fact, it isn't fact. Speaking as someone who has had a near death experience, they are very convincing, but there are many explanations for them, explanations that do not need something supernatural to substanciate them.

Holy smokes, Beth. Are you actually telling me that you've seen the other side too, and it didn't make a believer out of you? I, for one, was completely relieved from pain, what a blessing that was after the crushing pain I lived with for a year, and to feel the love around me and see the people waiting for me.....

Well, let's just say that I'm certainly not afraid to go back anymore, nor am I sad for anyone who goes there... as we all will someday.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:59 am

If Terry were not Christian would you feel the same? Terry was denied her last rites by her husband in 2003 when the feeding tube was removed citing he was concerned she would choke on a wafer that melts in the mouth and that she might inhale the miniscule drop of wine. Makes me wonder if he was scared that she might show a swallowing reflex.

You aren't sad for those who are taken from this life without their consent?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:29 pm

Hearings set in Terri Schiavo saga

Video Story

Clearwater, Florida - Circuit Judge George Greer plans to hold hearings in Clearwater today on a number of motions filed in the Terri Schiavo case.

The state's social services agency said it wants to delay the removal of the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube so it can investigate about 30 new allegations of "abuse, neglect or "exploitation" by her husband, Michael Schiavo. Under a court-ordered stay, the tube can be removed as early as March 18th.

Michael Schiavo has been engaged in a bitter legal fight to remove the tube, arguing that she did not want to be kept alive artificially.

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have fought to keep her alive, contending that she had no such end-of-life wishes and is not in a vegetative state as court-ordered doctors have determined.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:09 am

a florida judge has blocked removal of the feeding tube at the eleventh hour.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:17 am

Rats. Her suffering must continue.

(Yeah, I know you are mad at me for wanting to let her go to a plane where she will be able to talk, walk, laugh and run again. but I'm sticking to my guns.)

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:20 am

Jives wrote: Rats. Her suffering must continue.

(Yeah, I know you are mad at me for wanting to let her go to a plane where she will be able to talk, walk, laugh and run again. but I'm sticking to my guns.)

I'M mad at you??

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:31 am

Jives wrote: Rats. Her suffering must continue.

(Yeah, I know you are mad at me for wanting to let her go to a plane where she will be able to talk, walk, laugh and run again. but I'm sticking to my guns.)

I'm certainly not mad at you, but I do dissagree with your believe. If Terri has cognitive thought now, then she is able to do all that sort of thing in her dreams. After she dies, who knows? It may just be nothing. We are just now learning about the brain and comas are such a grey area for us. I side with her parents even still. They should be allowed to decide.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:47 am

the judge has reinstated the order to remove feeding tube, and doctors await her husband's instructions.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:49 am

Do you have a link? Because I read that federal marshals are under order to enforce a subpoena that protects her.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:51 am

www.CNN.com.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:04 pm

Thanks. It looks like the family can get a restraining order to stop the tube from being removed:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150797,00.html

In addition to the testimony, the subpoenas require that Schiavo's feeding tube remain in place, stating, "No things including those things reflecting data, information, or records called for by this request shall be destroyed, modified, transferred, disconnected, discontinued, or otherwise made inaccessible to the Committee."

Further, it reads: "This request is continuing in nature and applies to any newly deployed things required for the continued hydration and nutrition of Theresa Schiavo."

Since Terri Schiavo herself has been designated a congressional witness, Schiavo's family or other concerned parties can go to the U.S. attorney in Florida and ask for a temporary restraining order against anyone wishing to harm her, sources on Capitol Hill say.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:24 pm

her feeding tube has been removed.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:28 pm

What?! Are these guys duking it out over her prostrate body? It sounds like there's an insurgency going on in her hospital room!

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:21 pm

Well according to the news there is no living will. and whoever eased my thread, that was rude.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:28 pm

Threads that duplicate existing topics are often erased. It has nothing to do with rude, it has to do with keeping confusion to a minimum.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:32 pm

get your info right. They did not block the removal. They couldn't find the judge. So when the judge was found he told them to to REMOVE it. This is very sick.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:08 pm

kmhowe72 wrote: get your info right. They did not block the removal. They couldn't find the judge. So when the judge was found he told them to to REMOVE it. This is very sick.oh i have my info right...when i posted this AM that removal was blocked, it was. and within minutes it was unblocked. further, when you want to post a topic, check to see if there is an existing thread. and try to at least spell the poor woman's name correctly. i deleted your thread because it was locked by admin. and nobody could add to it anyway.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:17 pm

LEAVE THIS POOR WOMEN ALONE PLEASE. LET HER CARE GO TO HER PARENTS.. WHY DOES SHE HAVE TO DIE??? WHY, WHY, WHY, WHAT WILL BE GAINED BY THIS??? :-1

I can't believe this has gone on and on. She is now starving to death. I hope her X-HUSBAND is happy. How can he live with himself. Is he afraid she may someday improve, and tell what really happened. I doubt that will happen ever, but she should be left alone. PUT THE FEEDING TUBE BACK IN NOW.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:27 pm

I am upset, too, Carla. I am just tired of it all. It would be nicer to see her be given to the parent's care. Schiavo has rejected millions to do so, so I really don't think he is in it for the money. I guess he really thinks she should die.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:01 pm

I just read a pdf report about Schiavo. Maybe this is for the best. THe facts of the case seem to be more clear than what I've seen anywhere else and I have been reading up on characteristics of vegatative states. It seems that those videos may not really be her responding cognitively, but it is just a stem reaction.

Looks like I was wrong. Not the first time.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:35 pm

I was reading on the internet. that congrass has managed to agree on the bill, and hopefully they will be able to act on it has early as tomarrow. Congrass is calling on special session.

also I saw her husband last night twice. and man does he look awful. He should. I hope he rot's for this in you know where.

You beter move this thread, because if it passes tomarrow. Then it will be in the courts.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:43 pm

For one thing Terry's brother and sister vowed to take care of terry after her parents pass away. And If she cot outside, (she is not even being let any sunshine in that room) and there are alot of good skin products. Her skin will be just fine. Terry does not have a spine problem like Chris Reeve. That is not a brian disorder. I heared her brother even said that speech may happen. He talked about having an afitdavid from a speech pothogist saying she can. And she couold possibly swallow on her own. If there is reasonable dought in an murder case we let them go, if not we send them to prison or we put them to death.

So with Terry we have reasonable dought that her condition, may not be all what it seems to be now. What I am saying is there lingering dought. That is a REAL VEG. Case

Post by **kensloft** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:12 pm

If there isn't sentience coming from the film that was shown then I'll be a monkey's uncle.

Post by **kensloft** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:55 pm

Scrat wrote: What film? All I saw here was a link to a PDF file adressed to Jeb Bush. I have seen pics but I have never seen a film.
Saw it on tv. Canadian channel CBC. It would be on the family's website(?) Don't know where it is but try google. check

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/healt ... state.html

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:22 pm

They are going to special session tomarrow. what's going to happen? does anyone have any idea? :wah:

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:23 pm

kmhowe72 wrote: I was reading on the internet. that congrass has managed to agree on the bill, and hopefully they will be able to act on it has early as tomarrow. Congrass is calling on special session.

You beter move this thread, because if it passes tomarrow. Then it will be in the courts. congrass?? and what does this mean?

"That is a REAL VEG. Case

"(kmhowe)

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:36 pm

From the reports on Tv. Terry schiavo can breathe and blink her eyes all on her own. The husband for some reason does not want her to recover. The parents believe that speech and other function she can do on her own.

So why should she die. The only thing she has hooked up is a feeding tube. I know children who have feeding tubes and they walk. Yes she is mentally retarded, brian damaged. But should she be STARVED to Death. If she is hooked up to a ventalater then I would think that maybe she should die.

:-1 Know one deserves to be touchered.

Post by **kensloft** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:28 pm

Scrat wrote: I just saw a "film" on TV. There is not a sentient being there.

Terri Schiavo died 15 years ago.

Now the husk is just a dog toy for the religious extremists, lawyers and politicians to play with.

I hope they have fun.

I guess your guess is as good as mine at this point.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:28 pm

I understand the laws, I understand the X-HUSBAND being her custodian for care. What I don't understand is WHY DOES SHE HAVE TO DIE. Why can't she be in her parents care till she dies normally. There is no reason for her die, non at all.. :-1

I see suffering everyday, I see pain, I see agony. When I look at Terri I see a brain damaged women for sure. She isn't suffering, she doesn't looked ill, her weight is normal. Her color is good. She is living on her own with only a feeding tube. LEAVE THIS WOMEN ALONE. LET HER LIVE OUT HER LIFE TO DIE WITH DIGNITY ON HER OWN TIME. SHE MAY NOT HAVE WANTED TO LIVE IN A VEGATATIVE STATE AS A YOUNG WOMEN. FROM WHAT I SEE SHE IS SHOWING HER DESIRE TO LIVE BY SURVIVING SEVERAL FEEDING TUBE REMOVALS. LEAVE HER ALONE..

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:37 pm

I hope the person who wrote that this is some political game, doesn't find themselves in this position ever. because their is such a thing as what goes around comes back to you. :-2

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:38 pm

Prsident Bush is on his way back to the white house to sign the law in right now. according to Fox . Now I wish I voted for him.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:00 am

SCRAT,

If you truly want your wish carried out make sure you have an ADVANCE DIRECTIVE in order now. Have it notorized, signed by two people (not relatives) and put in a safe place. Give copies to everyone in your family. If you have an attorney give him one as well. Then there will be no doubts about how you will be treated if you can't make the decision yourself.

In the directive have a durable power of attorney as well, stating the name of the person you want to handle your affairs if you can't.

If you feel it necessary have a LIVING WILL set up now. We need to be prepared, so our families won't have to go through the agony that Ms. Schiavo family is dealing with now.. :-1

Post by **kensloft** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:51 am

Scrat wrote: It never will happen to me. I have the following tattoed on my chest.

IN CASE OF TOTAL HEART FAILURE DUE TO ANY CONDITION DO NOT RESUSITATE THIS INDIVIDUAL. TAKE THIS BODY TO THE NEAREST COLD STORAGE UNIT IMMEDIATELY.

NOTIFY THE FOLLOWING. Sister ect, next of kin blah, blah, blah and ALCORE LIFE EXTENSION FOUNDATION.

IF YOU RESUSITATE ME AND I AM NOT AT THE PEAK OF HEALTH AFTERWARDS I WILL SPEND EVERY WAKING MOMENT THAT I LIVE MAKING YOUR LIFE A LIVING HELL. I WILL PAY LAWYERS TO ASSAULT YOU LIKE DEPRAVED HORNY PITBULLS AND POLITICIANS TO HAVE FASCIST MEN IN BLACK SUITS AND BLACK SUVS FOLLOW YOU AT ALL TIMES, LOOK IN YOUR WINDOWS AT NIGHT AND WATCH YOU TAKE SHOWERS IN THE MORNING. IF I AM CAPABLE OF MOVEMENT I WILL EVENTUALLY HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU.

I figure that this message on my chest would most likely make anyone think twice of getting my ticker going again, wouldn't you? They are more likely to flee the scene in haste. I seriously doubt it will ever happen to me.

:wah:

It is easy to be facetious. Especially when the things that you are talking about have no personal bearing on your life. The 'if it was me' attitude doesn't hold water because it has no substance to it. Death is not funny. It is not a joke. Losing someone that is close to you will hurt you like you never knew hurt could. Laugh and think that you are above it all if you want, but, remember what you ask for you just might get and when you do you will see that it is not exactly what you thought it would be like.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:06 am

I don't know how people who are right there can make a decision on what to do in circumstances like this, let alone people like us on an internet forum. It is interesting to conjecture but...REALLY! As far as the actual woman is concerned, none of us knows if she wants to live or die. All we have is our own personal opinions of what we would want for ourselves...but then that could change if the moment arrived.

As far as the husband's motivation goes; that is even harder to determine. There must be a lot of emotions involved. Some people react to grief with anger some with tears and faith everyone on a forum has been guilty of jumping to conclusions at some point. The whole thing is very sad and has been for 15 years. I'm glad I'm not one of the people who has to live it.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:26 am

Leave her alone, she isn't bothering anyone. Let the mother keep her as long as she wants. Why put a human down over water and nourishment?

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:31 am

I read the entire pdf file. It showed that some of the things the parent have been saying about the husband are outright lies. It also said that Terry's behavior on film is typical of one in a vegetative state. Her actions appear to be cognitive reactions but are really stem reactions.