http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3724194.stm
This case goes back a while and I have followed it with interest, the little girl is now 3yrs old and even though her parents fought tooth and nail to keep her alive (and won a legal battle to have her resuscitated after the link I have posted was published), she is to be possibly put with foster parents as her birth parents have split and neither are capable or suitable to look after her special needs.
I don't really want to get into this particular case but what are your views on the resuscitation of very sick babies and infants? Do you think that they should be kept alive at all costs, even if their long term prognosis is poor and it is possible that they are in pain? Or, should they be allowed to slip away and spared the intrusion of wires and aggressive procedures during their short lives. Is it for the doctors or the parents to judge?
Personally I'd like to think that if I were in this situation, I'd have the courage to let the child slip away peacefully, but what do you think?
Katy
Life at all costs?
Life at all costs?
I am pro life but I guess with a difference because I think quality of life is important and I see no reason to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep a underweight, sick back alive for a life destined for total disability and having to be cared for every minute of their life. I also for myself would not want to be kept alive mechanically beyond my ability to have some quality of life.
I am beyond having children so that probably makes a difference in my opinion., I don't know how I would feel if I was in the position of making a choice for a baby, my baby.
I am beyond having children so that probably makes a difference in my opinion., I don't know how I would feel if I was in the position of making a choice for a baby, my baby.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Life at all costs?
Katy1 wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3724194.stm
This case goes back a while and I have followed it with interest, the little girl is now 3yrs old and even though her parents fought tooth and nail to keep her alive (and won a legal battle to have her resuscitated after the link I have posted was published), she is to be possibly put with foster parents as her birth parents have split and neither are capable or suitable to look after her special needs.
I don't really want to get into this particular case but what are your views on the resuscitation of very sick babies and infants? Do you think that they should be kept alive at all costs, even if their long term prognosis is poor and it is possible that they are in pain? Or, should they be allowed to slip away and spared the intrusion of wires and aggressive procedures during their short lives. Is it for the doctors or the parents to judge?
Personally I'd like to think that if I were in this situation, I'd have the courage to let the child slip away peacefully, but what do you think?
Katy
when my lovely daughter Natasha was borne she had been starved of oxygen and had she lived she would of been severely brain damaged last week i saw a poor tortured father trying to cope with a severely mentally handicapped child though i have no doubts in my mind i could of looked after her i cant say i'm glad she died i loved her with all my heart but i'm glad she is not suffering
there is an answer in there somewhere
This case goes back a while and I have followed it with interest, the little girl is now 3yrs old and even though her parents fought tooth and nail to keep her alive (and won a legal battle to have her resuscitated after the link I have posted was published), she is to be possibly put with foster parents as her birth parents have split and neither are capable or suitable to look after her special needs.
I don't really want to get into this particular case but what are your views on the resuscitation of very sick babies and infants? Do you think that they should be kept alive at all costs, even if their long term prognosis is poor and it is possible that they are in pain? Or, should they be allowed to slip away and spared the intrusion of wires and aggressive procedures during their short lives. Is it for the doctors or the parents to judge?
Personally I'd like to think that if I were in this situation, I'd have the courage to let the child slip away peacefully, but what do you think?
Katy
when my lovely daughter Natasha was borne she had been starved of oxygen and had she lived she would of been severely brain damaged last week i saw a poor tortured father trying to cope with a severely mentally handicapped child though i have no doubts in my mind i could of looked after her i cant say i'm glad she died i loved her with all my heart but i'm glad she is not suffering
there is an answer in there somewhere
Life at all costs?
jimbo wrote: when my lovely daughter Natasha was borne she had been starved of oxygen and had she lived she would of been severely brain damaged last week i saw a poor tortured father trying to cope with a severely mentally handicapped child though i have no doubts in my mind i could of looked after her i cant say i'm glad she died i loved her with all my heart but i'm glad she is not suffering
there is an answer in there somewhere
Hey Jimbo, that must have been very hard for you. I can never find the right words so instead.....:yh_flower
there is an answer in there somewhere
Hey Jimbo, that must have been very hard for you. I can never find the right words so instead.....:yh_flower
-
chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Life at all costs?
That is a hard choice, my cousin currently is faced with a similar situation. His one month old daughter is severely retarded, and only has been home for one day, the rest of the time in the hospital.
From the older perspective, for older people I mean, it depends on the individual's wishes and desires. You must make a Living Will, or others will make these decisions for you. My husband did not have one, I had to make the descision what to do. Would I have done it again had I known how it would be? Yes, because I believe life is sacred, even if they live at a different capacity to enjoy life. Is life fair to allow these things to happen? No, it is not. But we learn to cope with them the best we can. Could I have sat there at the major point of decision, and allowed him to die? No, because then I would have to live the remainder of my life with that memory, and my choice. When it is his time to go, it will be for God to decide, not me.
From the older perspective, for older people I mean, it depends on the individual's wishes and desires. You must make a Living Will, or others will make these decisions for you. My husband did not have one, I had to make the descision what to do. Would I have done it again had I known how it would be? Yes, because I believe life is sacred, even if they live at a different capacity to enjoy life. Is life fair to allow these things to happen? No, it is not. But we learn to cope with them the best we can. Could I have sat there at the major point of decision, and allowed him to die? No, because then I would have to live the remainder of my life with that memory, and my choice. When it is his time to go, it will be for God to decide, not me.
Life at all costs?
thanks katy
i would hate any person any animal to suffer unesesary ,i ran down a rabbit sorry chonsi
it guts was hanging out it was not going to live but it was in so much pain i could not leave it, it was screaming honest i did not know they could make a noise but it was a had to get the jack out of the boot of the car and put it out of its misery it really upset me for days
so if a child is going to have no quality of life i think they should be painlessly let to go to sleep
before any one starts jumping up and down i know what i'm talking about i've been there
i would hate any person any animal to suffer unesesary ,i ran down a rabbit sorry chonsi
it guts was hanging out it was not going to live but it was in so much pain i could not leave it, it was screaming honest i did not know they could make a noise but it was a had to get the jack out of the boot of the car and put it out of its misery it really upset me for days
so if a child is going to have no quality of life i think they should be painlessly let to go to sleep
before any one starts jumping up and down i know what i'm talking about i've been there
Life at all costs?
jimbo wrote: when my lovely daughter Natasha was borne she had been starved of oxygen and had she lived she would of been severely brain damaged last week i saw a poor tortured father trying to cope with a severely mentally handicapped child though i have no doubts in my mind i could of looked after her i cant say i'm glad she died i loved her with all my heart but i'm glad she is not suffering
there is an answer in there somewhere
Hey Jimbo
That made me cry:yh_sad . It must have been very difficult decision to make. Your love for your baby must have been very deep to decide. I probably would have done the same but that doesn't make it any easier for someone else.:yh_hugs :yh_hugs
there is an answer in there somewhere
Hey Jimbo
That made me cry:yh_sad . It must have been very difficult decision to make. Your love for your baby must have been very deep to decide. I probably would have done the same but that doesn't make it any easier for someone else.:yh_hugs :yh_hugs
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
-
chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Life at all costs?
Yes, you have been there and know the sorrow and misery. I always respect you and send you my kindest wishes, for your loss.:-4
I have been there too, and still live in limbo. It is not an easy decision to make, we must make the one we feel is best.
Quality of life-I just personally believe it is up to the Creator for that decision.
Does my husband have a good quality of life-how will I ever know what is truly inside of his mind, he will never be able to communicate properly. I must assume the responsibility of ensuring he has the best that is offered him. Is life easy-no, you have all heard me grumble about how hard it is. It is two years now, it is a long time. The longest I have ever lived in my 52 years. Will he get better-no, brain injuries do not heal much more after 18 months. I have learned, although I do not like it, to know he will never really know me again as I was. To have years of memory erased, and be seen as "Mom" most of the time, is very hard for me. I am not his mom, I am his wife. To know he will never, ever, call me by name or know for sure who I am, is very difficult. It is the one thing I really would like, to hear him once call me by name, or say it.
To know each day could be his last, for he could die now, or 20 years from now, I live each day "One day at a time." And I will try my best to make sure he lives it as well as possible, because I love him.
I have been there too, and still live in limbo. It is not an easy decision to make, we must make the one we feel is best.
Quality of life-I just personally believe it is up to the Creator for that decision.
Does my husband have a good quality of life-how will I ever know what is truly inside of his mind, he will never be able to communicate properly. I must assume the responsibility of ensuring he has the best that is offered him. Is life easy-no, you have all heard me grumble about how hard it is. It is two years now, it is a long time. The longest I have ever lived in my 52 years. Will he get better-no, brain injuries do not heal much more after 18 months. I have learned, although I do not like it, to know he will never really know me again as I was. To have years of memory erased, and be seen as "Mom" most of the time, is very hard for me. I am not his mom, I am his wife. To know he will never, ever, call me by name or know for sure who I am, is very difficult. It is the one thing I really would like, to hear him once call me by name, or say it.
To know each day could be his last, for he could die now, or 20 years from now, I live each day "One day at a time." And I will try my best to make sure he lives it as well as possible, because I love him.
Life at all costs?
weber wrote: Hey Jimbo
That made me cry:yh_sad . It must have been very difficult decision to make. Your love for your baby must have been very deep to decide. I probably would have done the same but that doesn't make it any easier for someone else.:yh_hugs :yh_hugs
sorry i think i misinformed you there i had no choice she just died but if i had had a choice .....i'm just glad she is not suffering
when i was younger i would of said try and save her
now i'd think of her and what life she would of had ahead of her i'd say pull the plug i have a friend who has a child that cant talk or walk she is just sitting around waiting for him to die not wanting him to but with all there is wrong with him he wont live for very young sue knows whays wrong with him i'll get her to post later
he is 10 now and the longest any with this illness has lived is 15
so you tell me was it worth him living with no quality of life and what about the parents its been a living hell for them
That made me cry:yh_sad . It must have been very difficult decision to make. Your love for your baby must have been very deep to decide. I probably would have done the same but that doesn't make it any easier for someone else.:yh_hugs :yh_hugs
sorry i think i misinformed you there i had no choice she just died but if i had had a choice .....i'm just glad she is not suffering
when i was younger i would of said try and save her
now i'd think of her and what life she would of had ahead of her i'd say pull the plug i have a friend who has a child that cant talk or walk she is just sitting around waiting for him to die not wanting him to but with all there is wrong with him he wont live for very young sue knows whays wrong with him i'll get her to post later
he is 10 now and the longest any with this illness has lived is 15
so you tell me was it worth him living with no quality of life and what about the parents its been a living hell for them
Life at all costs?
chonsigirl wrote: Yes, you have been there and know the sorrow and misery. I always respect you and send you my kindest wishes, for your loss.:-4
I have been there too, and still live in limbo. It is not an easy decision to make, we must make the one we feel is best.
Quality of life-I just personally believe it is up to the Creator for that decision.
Does my husband have a good quality of life-how will I ever know what is truly inside of his mind, he will never be able to communicate properly. I must assume the responsibility of ensuring he has the best that is offered him. Is life easy-no, you have all heard me grumble about how hard it is. It is two years now, it is a long time. The longest I have ever lived in my 52 years. Will he get better-no, brain injuries do not heal much more after 18 months. I have learned, although I do not like it, to know he will never really know me again as I was. To have years of memory erased, and be seen as "Mom" most of the time, is very hard for me. I am not his mom, I am his wife. To know he will never, ever, call me by name or know for sure who I am, is very difficult. It is the one thing I really would like, to hear him once call me by name, or say it.
To know each day could be his last, for he could die now, or 20 years from now, I live each day "One day at a time." And I will try my best to make sure he lives it as well as possible, because I love him.
thats terrible chonsi i really dont know where you get your strength if there is ever any thing i can say or do just drop me a line . thats given me a lump in my throat like a watermelon take care jimbo
I have been there too, and still live in limbo. It is not an easy decision to make, we must make the one we feel is best.
Quality of life-I just personally believe it is up to the Creator for that decision.
Does my husband have a good quality of life-how will I ever know what is truly inside of his mind, he will never be able to communicate properly. I must assume the responsibility of ensuring he has the best that is offered him. Is life easy-no, you have all heard me grumble about how hard it is. It is two years now, it is a long time. The longest I have ever lived in my 52 years. Will he get better-no, brain injuries do not heal much more after 18 months. I have learned, although I do not like it, to know he will never really know me again as I was. To have years of memory erased, and be seen as "Mom" most of the time, is very hard for me. I am not his mom, I am his wife. To know he will never, ever, call me by name or know for sure who I am, is very difficult. It is the one thing I really would like, to hear him once call me by name, or say it.
To know each day could be his last, for he could die now, or 20 years from now, I live each day "One day at a time." And I will try my best to make sure he lives it as well as possible, because I love him.
thats terrible chonsi i really dont know where you get your strength if there is ever any thing i can say or do just drop me a line . thats given me a lump in my throat like a watermelon
take care jimbo-
chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Life at all costs?
Yes, it is worth his living, every moment that he breathes. If his parents have not learned unconditional love from this experience, then he would not be alive today. They have known this, and have kept him alive.
Everyone must make their own choices about "pulling the plug" on another human beings life. It does not concern the issue of quality of life, but the question of life itself.
Everyone must make their own choices about "pulling the plug" on another human beings life. It does not concern the issue of quality of life, but the question of life itself.
Life at all costs?
Its a terrible thing for anyone to have to face. No one can be blamed for wanting their child to live as long as possible whatever the circumstances. I'm not sure how you could legislate for such things, or what type of precedent you would use. If a child cannot live without the aid of machines there obviously comes a point at which the medical people involved feel that they are not able to do anything except prolong a trajically short life, and at that stage of course the question of resources becomes serious as hospitals or even governments do not have unlimited resources and they have to shared amoung many very needy people. Its still horrible, its one of the reasons I'm glad I didn't end up being a medical doctor. Jimbo, I admire your ability to discuss your feelings about such a tragic circumstance, there's nothing to say beyond what you have posted, your story makes me realize how lucky I am just to be alive, I forget that sometimes.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Life at all costs?
Galbally wrote: Its a terrible thing for anyone to have to face. No one can be blamed for wanting their child to live as long as possible whatever the circumstances. I'm not sure how you could legislate for such things, or what type of precedent you would use. If a child cannot live without the aid of machines there obviously comes a point at which the medical people involved feel that they are not able to do anything except prolong a trajically short life, and at that stage of course the question of resources becomes serious as hospitals or even governments do not have unlimited resources and they have to shared amoung many very needy people. Its still horrible, its one of the reasons I'm glad I didn't end up being a medical doctor. Jimbo, I admire your ability to discuss your feelings about such a tragic circumstance, there's nothing to say beyond what you have posted, your story makes me realize how lucky I am just to be alive, I forget that sometimes.
thanks i would also like to think that if ever i was in this sort of predicament i have made my sister and sue promise me they would pull the plug on me
about 10 years ago maybe a bit more i had a terrible accident when some scaffolding collapsed i had a terrible head injury i was left unable to walk and talk for six months that didn't bother me none i really did not know much about it but over the next couple of years the pain and depression was unbearable but i proved them all wrong they never thought I'd normal again but i'm OK now .... or am i :-3
thanks i would also like to think that if ever i was in this sort of predicament i have made my sister and sue promise me they would pull the plug on me
about 10 years ago maybe a bit more i had a terrible accident when some scaffolding collapsed i had a terrible head injury i was left unable to walk and talk for six months that didn't bother me none i really did not know much about it but over the next couple of years the pain and depression was unbearable but i proved them all wrong they never thought I'd normal again but i'm OK now .... or am i :-3
-
chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Life at all costs?
Dearest Jimbo, make a Living Will for Sue to know these things. It will help her if such a thing ever happened. It would take the burden off of her, and be so kind a thing to do. If my husband had done that, I would have known what was correct to do.
And I think you are just fine after your accident, your presence is a very welcome one here in the Garden.......................:-4
And I think you are just fine after your accident, your presence is a very welcome one here in the Garden.......................:-4
Life at all costs?
jimbo wrote: thanks i would also like to think that if ever i was in this sort of predicament i have made my sister and sue promise me they would pull the plug on me
about 10 years ago maybe a bit more i had a terrible accident when some scaffolding collapsed i had a terrible head injury i was left unable to walk and talk for six months that didn't bother me none i really did not know much about it but over the next couple of years the pain and depression was unbearable but i proved them all wrong they never thought I'd normal again but i'm OK now .... or am i :-3
You are more OK than most of the rest of us anyway, thats a start! :wah:
about 10 years ago maybe a bit more i had a terrible accident when some scaffolding collapsed i had a terrible head injury i was left unable to walk and talk for six months that didn't bother me none i really did not know much about it but over the next couple of years the pain and depression was unbearable but i proved them all wrong they never thought I'd normal again but i'm OK now .... or am i :-3
You are more OK than most of the rest of us anyway, thats a start! :wah:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Life at all costs?
chonsigirl wrote: Dearest Jimbo, make a Living Will for Sue to know these things. It will help her if such a thing ever happened. It would take the burden off of her, and be so kind a thing to do. If my husband had done that, I would have known what was correct to do.
And I think you are just fine after your accident, your presence is a very welcome one here in the Garden.......................:-4
Several months ago My Wife & I made a living will. Believe me it was a very difficult process to discuss all the personal arangements & desires. As it really showed just how mortal we all are!
chonsi, my heart goes out to you, I can't & don't even want to begin to imagine what you are going through! You are one strong woman, and I'm proud to know you, even if it's just in our cyberworld!! :-4
Your husband is a lucky man, & sadly, he doesn't even know it!
And I think you are just fine after your accident, your presence is a very welcome one here in the Garden.......................:-4
Several months ago My Wife & I made a living will. Believe me it was a very difficult process to discuss all the personal arangements & desires. As it really showed just how mortal we all are!
chonsi, my heart goes out to you, I can't & don't even want to begin to imagine what you are going through! You are one strong woman, and I'm proud to know you, even if it's just in our cyberworld!! :-4
Your husband is a lucky man, & sadly, he doesn't even know it!
Cars 
Life at all costs?
chonsigirl wrote: Dearest Jimbo, make a Living Will for Sue to know these things. It will help her if such a thing ever happened. It would take the burden off of her, and be so kind a thing to do. If my husband had done that, I would have known what was correct to do.
And I think you are just fine after your accident, your presence is a very welcome one here in the Garden.......................:-4
chonsi you are the bravest of the brave i admire you so much i cant put into words . i canmt imagine the horrors and tortures your mind must be going through
as my daughter fought for life a dr asked me to sign on organ donor form which i gladly did for if my little girl did not make i wanted to make sure her passing away would not be in vain and if i could help some other poor parent not go through the pain and despair that we did i would do it
i've left my body for the donor people to but the heart is broken the brain bashed the liver and kidneys damaged by jack daniels but the eye for a lady still works fine though sue keeps a pair of blinkers on me :rolleyes:
And I think you are just fine after your accident, your presence is a very welcome one here in the Garden.......................:-4
chonsi you are the bravest of the brave i admire you so much i cant put into words . i canmt imagine the horrors and tortures your mind must be going through
as my daughter fought for life a dr asked me to sign on organ donor form which i gladly did for if my little girl did not make i wanted to make sure her passing away would not be in vain and if i could help some other poor parent not go through the pain and despair that we did i would do it
i've left my body for the donor people to but the heart is broken the brain bashed the liver and kidneys damaged by jack daniels but the eye for a lady still works fine though sue keeps a pair of blinkers on me :rolleyes:
-
Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Life at all costs?
Katy1 wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3724194.stm
I don't really want to get into this particular case but what are your views on the resuscitation of very sick babies and infants? Do you think that they should be kept alive at all costs, even if their long term prognosis is poor and it is possible that they are in pain? Or, should they be allowed to slip away and spared the intrusion of wires and aggressive procedures during their short lives. Is it for the doctors or the parents to judge?
What is the outlook for this child now? Do her parents still stand by their
decision? If she's to develop, perhaps into a disabled person, what might her
opinion be? Do people disabled by whatever manner alive now wish they wer
dead? Questions to ponder.
I don't really want to get into this particular case but what are your views on the resuscitation of very sick babies and infants? Do you think that they should be kept alive at all costs, even if their long term prognosis is poor and it is possible that they are in pain? Or, should they be allowed to slip away and spared the intrusion of wires and aggressive procedures during their short lives. Is it for the doctors or the parents to judge?
What is the outlook for this child now? Do her parents still stand by their
decision? If she's to develop, perhaps into a disabled person, what might her
opinion be? Do people disabled by whatever manner alive now wish they wer
dead? Questions to ponder.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Life at all costs?
Life or death. It's a torturous decision I would never wish on anyone. I think I might do all in my power to preserve another's life, yet would not want someone to do the same for me.
I pray I or my loved ones will never be put in the position to test the conviction.
I pray I or my loved ones will never be put in the position to test the conviction.
Life at all costs?
Accountable wrote: Life or death. It's a torturous decision I would never wish on anyone. I think I might do all in my power to preserve another's life, yet would not want someone to do the same for me.
I pray I or my loved ones will never be put in the position to test the conviction.
I think perhaps a lot of us think like that Accounts
When it is time, I would want to be just allowed to die. But I don't know that I could do that to someone else. In a way, a bit strange thinking. Are we strange Accounts.:-3
I pray I or my loved ones will never be put in the position to test the conviction.
I think perhaps a lot of us think like that Accounts
When it is time, I would want to be just allowed to die. But I don't know that I could do that to someone else. In a way, a bit strange thinking. Are we strange Accounts.:-3
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Life at all costs?
WEBER "I am pro life but I guess with a difference because I think quality of life is important and I see no reason to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep a underweight, sick back alive for a life destined for total disability and having to be cared for every minute of their life. I also for myself would not want to be kept alive mechanically beyond my ability to have some quality of life."
+++++++++++ Not picking on you, Weber, because I've seen others say the same thing on this thread, but what exactly does "pro-life" mean? If we're all really honest....would we choose to continue a pregnancy, knowing that THIS kind of "life" would be the result?
Anyone with a heart would say "no." And yet, thousands of self-righteous people would deny a woman the chance to end a pregnancy which would result in such a birth.
ANYONE in this position should be allowed to die, if that's what the body will do. And any fetus in this horribly damaged condition should be terminated.
JMHO.
+++++++++++ Not picking on you, Weber, because I've seen others say the same thing on this thread, but what exactly does "pro-life" mean? If we're all really honest....would we choose to continue a pregnancy, knowing that THIS kind of "life" would be the result?
Anyone with a heart would say "no." And yet, thousands of self-righteous people would deny a woman the chance to end a pregnancy which would result in such a birth.
ANYONE in this position should be allowed to die, if that's what the body will do. And any fetus in this horribly damaged condition should be terminated.
JMHO.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Life at all costs?
Lulu2 wrote: WEBER "I am pro life but I guess with a difference because I think quality of life is important and I see no reason to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep a underweight, sick back alive for a life destined for total disability and having to be cared for every minute of their life. I also for myself would not want to be kept alive mechanically beyond my ability to have some quality of life."
+++++++++++ Not picking on you, Weber, because I've seen others say the same thing on this thread, but what exactly does "pro-life" mean? If we're all really honest....would we choose to continue a pregnancy, knowing that THIS kind of "life" would be the result?
Anyone with a heart would say "no." And yet, thousands of self-righteous people would deny a woman the chance to end a pregnancy which would result in such a birth.
ANYONE in this position should be allowed to die, if that's what the body will do. And any fetus in this horribly damaged condition should be terminated.
JMHO.
Lulu
I said the same exact thing as you with just a slight difference.....I said I am pro life but I am not pro life in the sense you are taking it meaning life first and foremost regardless of quality of life. I said as you did that I could not see spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep a underweight, sick child alive with no quality of life to look forward to.
Pro life to me means that I am pro life in the sense that I disagree with abortion on demand for any reason especially if it is just a means a type of birth control.
Quality of life is important to me. I don't want to be kept on life support beyond quality of life for me.
I cannot say I am pro choice because pro choice to me is saying that a woman, any woman, can do anything at all with her body, whatever she chooses even if she just didn't bother to protect herself from conception and once the option is there many women will use it as a door, foothold whatever. So I say I am pro choice and take my knocks.
Go back and read my post. I am quite sure that you probably shut off once you saw pro life. And I am not criticizing or insulting because I do the same thing.... certain words shut me off. I will have to be more careful in both respects.
+++++++++++ Not picking on you, Weber, because I've seen others say the same thing on this thread, but what exactly does "pro-life" mean? If we're all really honest....would we choose to continue a pregnancy, knowing that THIS kind of "life" would be the result?
Anyone with a heart would say "no." And yet, thousands of self-righteous people would deny a woman the chance to end a pregnancy which would result in such a birth.
ANYONE in this position should be allowed to die, if that's what the body will do. And any fetus in this horribly damaged condition should be terminated.
JMHO.
Lulu
I said the same exact thing as you with just a slight difference.....I said I am pro life but I am not pro life in the sense you are taking it meaning life first and foremost regardless of quality of life. I said as you did that I could not see spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep a underweight, sick child alive with no quality of life to look forward to.
Pro life to me means that I am pro life in the sense that I disagree with abortion on demand for any reason especially if it is just a means a type of birth control.
Quality of life is important to me. I don't want to be kept on life support beyond quality of life for me.
I cannot say I am pro choice because pro choice to me is saying that a woman, any woman, can do anything at all with her body, whatever she chooses even if she just didn't bother to protect herself from conception and once the option is there many women will use it as a door, foothold whatever. So I say I am pro choice and take my knocks.
Go back and read my post. I am quite sure that you probably shut off once you saw pro life. And I am not criticizing or insulting because I do the same thing.... certain words shut me off. I will have to be more careful in both respects.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Life at all costs?
chonsigirl wrote: Yes, it is worth his living, every moment that he breathes. If his parents have not learned unconditional love from this experience, then he would not be alive today. They have known this, and have kept him alive.
Everyone must make their own choices about "pulling the plug" on another human beings life. It does not concern the issue of quality of life, but the question of life itself.
I too have been following the story - the Daily Mail has given it coverage from the start. I do not think money has, or should, come into a case like this. They are a young couple whose lives have been put under an intollerable strain by the attention of the news media. The biggest single problem one faces in a situation like this the question regarding quality of life. I am talking about the PHYSICAL quality of life. In almost all of the cases, those who argue about the whys and wherefores of preserving less than perfect lives are fully abled adults. I genuinely thank God from the bottom of my heart that there is nothing seriously wrong with me. The problem is, and I know it's a terrible cliche, are we playing God by deciding for the newly-born as to whether there is hope. Forty years ago those same doctors would have taken the same attitude had a pregnant woman been carrying a child with a serious heart problem. Dr. Christian Barnard and his team turned science on it's head a few years later. Again, it has been said many times before, WHERE THERE IS LIFE THERE IS HOPE.
My late uncle lay in a coma for three weeks after his skull was fractured in a road smash. My Grandparents were told in no uncertain terms that he was brain dead, and that there was no point in operating, and yet despite all the odds, not only did he make a full recovery, he retired to Australia after having fathered three children. Please don't get me wrong, because I feel the doctors or surgeons of today do an absolutely marvellous job, but just how much more pressure would they have been under to "pull the plug" and give somebody else a chance had the accident happened, say, ten years ago?
Making a "living will" is another area of VERY thin ice. It has been medically proven that what was taken as standard with regards to people being brain dead, has now been turned on it's head by the fact that oscilloscopes etc actually picked up impulses that people are still aware of what is going on around them even though there is no possibility of responding. Who is to say the person lying supposedly brain dead is not in turmoil knowing what fate is about to befall him, having changed his mind and unable to tell their partner anything about it. I SAY if anything went seriously wrong with me I wouldn't want to live, but when it comes to the crunch, regardless of how depressing the future may seem, ALL of us cling to life for every last second. There are no easy answers, but as I said earlier, where there is life there is hope. With regards to unborn children, adults in an adult world have to take on the responsibility to fight for their rights. That is why I am an active member of the SPUC - the Society for the Protection uf Unborn Children. There are, as I said, no easy answers.
Everyone must make their own choices about "pulling the plug" on another human beings life. It does not concern the issue of quality of life, but the question of life itself.
I too have been following the story - the Daily Mail has given it coverage from the start. I do not think money has, or should, come into a case like this. They are a young couple whose lives have been put under an intollerable strain by the attention of the news media. The biggest single problem one faces in a situation like this the question regarding quality of life. I am talking about the PHYSICAL quality of life. In almost all of the cases, those who argue about the whys and wherefores of preserving less than perfect lives are fully abled adults. I genuinely thank God from the bottom of my heart that there is nothing seriously wrong with me. The problem is, and I know it's a terrible cliche, are we playing God by deciding for the newly-born as to whether there is hope. Forty years ago those same doctors would have taken the same attitude had a pregnant woman been carrying a child with a serious heart problem. Dr. Christian Barnard and his team turned science on it's head a few years later. Again, it has been said many times before, WHERE THERE IS LIFE THERE IS HOPE.
My late uncle lay in a coma for three weeks after his skull was fractured in a road smash. My Grandparents were told in no uncertain terms that he was brain dead, and that there was no point in operating, and yet despite all the odds, not only did he make a full recovery, he retired to Australia after having fathered three children. Please don't get me wrong, because I feel the doctors or surgeons of today do an absolutely marvellous job, but just how much more pressure would they have been under to "pull the plug" and give somebody else a chance had the accident happened, say, ten years ago?
Making a "living will" is another area of VERY thin ice. It has been medically proven that what was taken as standard with regards to people being brain dead, has now been turned on it's head by the fact that oscilloscopes etc actually picked up impulses that people are still aware of what is going on around them even though there is no possibility of responding. Who is to say the person lying supposedly brain dead is not in turmoil knowing what fate is about to befall him, having changed his mind and unable to tell their partner anything about it. I SAY if anything went seriously wrong with me I wouldn't want to live, but when it comes to the crunch, regardless of how depressing the future may seem, ALL of us cling to life for every last second. There are no easy answers, but as I said earlier, where there is life there is hope. With regards to unborn children, adults in an adult world have to take on the responsibility to fight for their rights. That is why I am an active member of the SPUC - the Society for the Protection uf Unborn Children. There are, as I said, no easy answers.