Argument for Marriage?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:28 am

Check this column out. I support marriage as an institution but not as a legal contract, so maybe this colors my view (duh!), but this guy's "arguments" just don't resonate with me. Sort of sounds like a vegetarian trying to convince an omnivore to give up meat. I can't imagine them actually convincing a young couple to marry if they weren't already convinced they should.

What do you think?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Five non-religious arguments for marriage over living together

By Dennis Prager

Tuesday, October 3, 2006

I have always believed that there is no comparing living together with marriage. There are enormous differences between being a "husband" or a "wife" and being a "partner," a "friend" or a "significant other"; between a legal commitment and a voluntary association; between standing before family and community to publicly announce one's commitment to another person on the one hand and simply living together on the other.

But attending the weddings of two of my three children this past summer made the differences far clearer and far more significant.

First, no matter what you think when living together, your relationship with your significant other changes the moment you marry. You have now made a commitment to each other as husband and wife in front of almost everyone significant in your life. You now see each other in a different and more serious light.

Second, words matter. They deeply affect us and others. Living with your "boyfriend" is not the same as living with your "husband." And living with your "girlfriend" or any other title you give her is not the same as making a home with your "wife." Likewise when you introduce that person as your wife or husband to people, you are making a far more important statement of that person's role in your life than you are with any other title.

Third, legality matters. Being legally bound to and responsible for another person matters. It is an announcement to him/her and to yourself that you take this relationship with the utmost seriousness. No words of affection or promises of commitment, no matter how sincere, can match the seriousness of legal commitment.

Fourth, to better appreciate just how important marriage is to the vast majority of people in your life, consider this: There is no event, no occasion, no moment in your life when so many of the people who matter to you will convene in one place as they will at your wedding. Not the birth of any of your children, not any milestone birthday you may celebrate, not your child's bar-mitzvah or confirmation. The only other time so many of those you care about and who care about you will gather in one place is at your funeral. But by then, unless you die young, nearly all those you love who are older than you will have already died.

So this is it. Your wedding will be the greatest gathering of loved ones in your life. There is a reason. It is the biggest moment of your life. No such event will ever happen if you do not have a wedding.

Fifth, only with marriage will your man's or your woman's family ever become your family. The two weddings transformed the woman in my son's life into my daughter-in-law and transformed the man in my daughter's life into my son-in-law. And I was instantly transformed from the father of their boyfriend or girlfriend into their father-in-law. This was the most dramatic new realization for me. I was now related to my children's partners. Their siblings and parents became family. Nothing comparable happens when two people live together without getting married.

Many women callers to my radio show have told me that the man in their life sees no reason to marry. "It's only a piece of paper," these men (and now some women) argue.

There are two answers to this argument.

One is that if in fact "it is only a piece of paper," what exactly is he so afraid of? Why does he fear a mere piece of paper? Either he is lying to himself and to his woman or lying only to her because he knows this piece of paper is far more than "only a piece of paper."

The other response is all that is written above. Getting married means I am now your wife, not your live-in; I am now your husband, not your significant other. It means that we get to have a wedding where, before virtually every person alive who means anything to us, we commit ourselves to each other. It means that we have decided to bring all these people we love into our lives. It means we have legal obligations to one another. It means my family becomes yours and yours becomes mine.

Thank God my children, ages 30 and 23, decided to marry. Their partners are now my daughter-in-law and son-in-law. They are therefore now mine to love, not merely two people whom my children love.

When you realize all that is attainable by marrying and unattainable by living together without marrying, you have to wonder why anyone would voluntarily choose not to marry the person he or she wishes to live with forever. Unless, of course, one of you really isn't planning on forever.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:41 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I was married by a judge in front of two friends... obviously not the important, life affirming event this person is talking about. I might as well go gnaw a vein now since it's obvious my life is meaningless. :rolleyes:My beloved and I married in Japan. It consisted of our lawyer's bilingual secretary navigating from the back seat. "Turn here. Take the next right. Park here. Come in, this may take awhile. Sit here. ... they need your thumb print. ......... etc ..... Go that way. Wait. Turn. Turn etc etc"

After a few hours of chauffeuring, my "passenger" directs me into a McDonald's. I asked when the marriage would be final. "Oh, that was when you gave your thumb print. Want to see the certificate?"

It's a beautiful certificate, but the reception was a little anticlimatic.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:02 am

Hamster wrote: 3- A legal commitment of marriage can be (and is often made wit the intention to be) broken whenever neccsessary. Why are divorce rates so high?Which is why I think it's dumb to begin with. I got married because I wanted to make a lifetime commitment - that, and the Air Force wouldn't allow me to haul her around the world with me unless we made it legal.

Her friends told her to keep a secret account on the side "just in case." I was livid, and told her that if she were planning on a divorce, we may as well not marry at all.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:06 am

SnoozeControl wrote: So would you have been just as offended if she had asked for a pre-nup?Yup.

Supersilly@rse · Post by **Supersilly@rse** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:07 am

I would like to get married - not from a religious perspective, or a legal perspective - but more of a formal affirmation and commitment perspective.

One of the most beautiful 'marriages' I've ever seen was a Commitment Ceremony in a field in Gloucester, with only friends and family and a Native American performing the ceremony. Totally meaningful with no legal or religious implications. Just for them... lovely!

I'd like a small wedding with only immediate family but it's not looking likely.

So...I'm putting confetti in his sock drawer, and leaving bride magazine on the coffee table.... any other ideas? :wah:

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:01 am

SnoozeControl wrote: People need to be realistic when they enter into a relationship and if having a separate account or prenup helps, then I don't see anything wrong with it.

When I married hubby #2, he insisted on a pre-nup.

My sister and my brother's wife were horrified -- they said they would *never* sign one.

My beloved was 46 years old, had a home and had built his own business from scratch.

So I asked myself: If *I* were *him*, would I want a prenuptual agreement signed?

The answer was 'yes'.

I understand his desire to protect what he had *soley* acquired before he met me.

So I signed on the dotted line. And it's never come up in conversation between us since that day :-6

Supersilly@rse · Post by **Supersilly@rse** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:46 am

I would sign one if my BF asked me to marry him... he has a lot to lose, if I turned into a hurricane.

Similarly, I have protected my own investments, in that they are in my mother's name, so if I got married, they would not be able to get half of it.

I'm realistic, in that how ever much I love my BF, I know that nothing is guaranteed to last forever.

I can only control one person in the relationship (me)

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:54 am

"Fourth, to better appreciate just how important marriage is to the vast majority of people in your life, consider this: There is no event, no occasion, no moment in your life when so many of the people who matter to you will convene in one place"

+++++++++++++++ Sounds like a better excuse for a party than a wedding! :wah:

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:43 am

6 months of living together "common law" here puts you into all the same legal implications as Marriage does. Shared debt, shared assets, leagal obligations to child support if you split up yada yada.

Soooooo where it that glow of marriage now....

Supersilly@rse · Post by **Supersilly@rse** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:51 am

minks wrote: 6 months of living together "common law" here puts you into all the same legal implications as Marriage does. Shared debt, shared assets, leagal obligations to child support if you split up yada yada.

Soooooo where it that glow of marriage now....

I thought that had all changed again now? They require proof of input etc?

SuzyB · Post by **SuzyB** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:55 pm

Jim and i have been living together for ten years (we broke up for 5 months nearly 3 years ago), we have always wanted to be married to each other but seemed to just drift along quite happy as we were. After close family deaths and me nearly dying twice we've decided to go for it next year!! :-4 :-4

twizzel · Post by **twizzel** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:56 pm

Accountable wrote: Check this column out. I support marriage as an institution but not as a legal contract, so maybe this colors my view (duh!), but this guy's "arguments" just don't resonate with me. Sort of sounds like a vegetarian trying to convince an omnivore to give up meat. I can't imagine them actually convincing a young couple to marry if they weren't already convinced they should.

What do you think?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Five non-religious arguments for marriage over living together

By Dennis Prager

Tuesday, October 3, 2006

I have always believed that there is no comparing living together with marriage. There are enormous differences between being a "husband" or a "wife" and being a "partner," a "friend" or a "significant other"; between a legal commitment and a voluntary association; between standing before family and community to publicly announce one's commitment to another person on the one hand and simply living together on the other.

But attending the weddings of two of my three children this past summer made the differences far clearer and far more significant.

First, no matter what you think when living together, your relationship with your significant other changes the moment you marry. You have now made a commitment to each other as husband and wife in front of almost everyone significant in your life. You now see each other in a different and more serious light.

Second, words matter. They deeply affect us and others. Living with your "boyfriend" is not the same as living with your "husband." And living with your "girlfriend" or any other title you give her is not the same as making a home with your "wife." Likewise when you introduce that person as your wife or husband to people, you are making a far more important statement of that person's role in your life than you are with any other title.

Third, legality matters. Being legally bound to and responsible for another person matters. It is an announcement to him/her and to yourself that you take this relationship with the utmost seriousness. No words of affection or promises of commitment, no matter how sincere, can match the seriousness of legal commitment.

Fourth, to better appreciate just how important marriage is to the vast majority of people in your life, consider this: There is no event, no occasion, no moment in your life when so many of the people who matter to you will convene in one place as they will at your wedding. Not the birth of any of your children, not any milestone birthday you may celebrate, not your child's bar-mitzvah or confirmation. The only other time so many of those you care about and who care about you will gather in one place is at your funeral. But by then, unless you die young, nearly all those you love who are older than you will have already died.

So this is it. Your wedding will be the greatest gathering of loved ones in your life. There is a reason. It is the biggest moment of your life. No such event will ever happen if you do not have a wedding.

Fifth, only with marriage will your man's or your woman's family ever become your family. The two weddings transformed the woman in my son's life into my daughter-in-law and transformed the man in my daughter's life into my son-in-law. And I was instantly transformed from the father of their boyfriend or girlfriend into their father-in-law. This was the most dramatic new realization for me. I was now related to my children's partners. Their siblings and parents became family. Nothing comparable happens when two people live together without getting married.

Many women callers to my radio show have told me that the man in their life sees no reason to marry. "It's only a piece of paper," these men (and now some women) argue.

There are two answers to this argument.

One is that if in fact "it is only a piece of paper," what exactly is he so afraid of? Why does he fear a mere piece of paper? Either he is lying to himself and to his woman or lying only to her because he knows this piece of paper is far more than "only a piece of paper."

The other response is all that is written above. Getting married means I am now your wife, not your live-in; I am now your husband, not your significant other. It means that we get to have a wedding where, before virtually every person alive who means anything to us, we commit ourselves to each other. It means that we have decided to bring all these people we love into our lives. It means we have legal obligations to one another. It means my family becomes yours and yours becomes mine.

Thank God my children, ages 30 and 23, decided to marry. Their partners are now my daughter-in-law and son-in-law. They are therefore now mine to love, not merely two people whom my children love.

When you realize all that is attainable by marrying and unattainable by living together without marrying, you have to wonder why anyone would voluntarily choose not to marry the person he or she wishes to live with forever. Unless, of course, one of you really isn't planning on forever.
Having lived with a woman before marrying her the main differance is all those things she did to please you are no longer available, a woman you are living with is never to tired need I go on.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:38 pm

twizzel wrote: Having lived with a woman before marrying her the main differance is all those things she did to please you are no longer available, a woman you are living with is never to tired need I go on.

I don't know about that. In fact I disagree. You could say the same about men ceasing their chivalrous ways after the deal is sealed.

Marriage certainly has its benefits as well as its cons.

I was just in a friend's first wedding Saturday. She spent over twenty grand to have it. It looked like any other wedding.

I disagree with many of the quoted author's statements. I sure don't feel that a wedding is the be-all end-all of it all. Not at all. :wah:

I also don't see it as the biggest moment of your life. My Gosh, does this guy work for Zales or something?! :wah: I would think the day your child is born would be the zinger.

I understand the want for a huge attendance but for me it would be a smaller affair as I actually see taking your wedding vows to be an act more private than even sex.

I would never sign a pre-nuptial contract. Ever.

And I would certainly have my own bank account.

Living "as one" is a lovely idea but in reality there are two people involved.

I do see it as part business contract as well as coming before God with your intended. I have no probs with a JP wedding or even a couple who has lived together for years and appear as husband and wife. They know what their relationship stands for; it's not for me to judge.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:27 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: I don't think of that as an escape plan at all. I got completely screwed over by my ex... he left me a huge pile of bills and I had to declare bankruptcy and my once perfect credit was ruined. People need to be realistic when they enter into a relationship and if having a separate account or prenup helps, then I don't see anything wrong with it. Especially for a wife that's never had a paying job and is left on her own when the husband bales on her. How is she supposed to survive when she has no marketable skills? (No, I'm not talking about myself... but I've seen it happen a LOT.)What I've offered to my beloved - and what you deserve, Snooze - is a full-on, no holds barred, balls to the wall, lifetime commitment.

I don't offer perfection, but I promise to try

We'll fight, but always fair. Always

I will always be on her side in any extended family issue, any job issue, any issue outside of the two of us, because we are one.

I will be faithful and loyal.

She is my queen and I am her servant, protector, lover, friend ... handyman ... whatever she needs. And she is all I need.
Now, later in life, people come with baggage. If part of that baggage is kids, it's only right that they get all that came before, so I'd agree to a prenup.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:34 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: Dear, you're obviously an exceptional man. If only we could all be so lucky as to find someone like you to spend the rest of our lives with. :DShe makes it easy. :-4

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:35 pm

SUZYB "After close family deaths and me nearly dying twice we've decided to go for it next year!!"

I WANT TO BE A CYBER BRIDESMAID! PLEASE? I'LL EVEN WEAR AN UGLY DRESS!

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:55 pm

In the past 35 years my wife and I have had many occasions when one of us would have gladly walked and never returned. It happens and I think it happens in every marriage. If we hadn't stood before family, friends and God to make our vows I don't know if the committment we made in private would have held up.

The committment we made in private was the one that counted. I believe that is the point at which a marriage is made. The public committment is the one that holds us accountable (in our case anyway).

There isn't anyone I'm closer to in the world than my wife. We both know the worst and the best about each other. We know what the other one needs, what makes us happy and what will drag the ugly side out. If we hadn't stayed together through the difficult times and gone our seperate ways, we wouldn't know that stuff about each other and we wouldn't have had the opportunity for the deep and valuable relationship we experience today.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:03 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: Changed my mind, this one's worse:

eeewww:yh_sick

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:06 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: This particular color would do amazing things with your red hair.

Goodness, those women have funny looking faces Snooze.....no eyes to see

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:06 pm

guppy wrote: eeewww:yh_sick
Wouldn't that look nice with green shoes?

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:36 pm

Some years ago, a friend asked me to sing at her wedding.

OK...but, she wanted "The Wedding Song" which is a horrible thing for a singer...all just about one note and terrible to sing. Lots of BREATH.

Her idea was that we'd all wear PURPLE dresses, STRAPLESS, and TIGHT.

Everyone else in the wedding was about five foot two....and size two.

I'm five foot eight and size twelve...with BOOBS.

But, being game, and because I love her, I said I'd do it.

You cannot imagine the HORROR of that dress!

It was sort of a PLUM color...designed to make ANYONE look ill.

Designed for a tiny person, it cramped my chest and MUSHED my boobs!

And she expected me to sing in this thing.

The short story is....I did it, and with every breath I took, I expected my boobs to LURCH out of that bodice and PRESENT THEMSELVES!

They didn't, thank heaven and I've destroyed as many photos of that day as I can find!

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:50 pm

Lulu2 wrote: The short story is....I did it, and with every breath I took, I expected my boobs to LURCH out of that bodice and PRESENT THEMSELVES!

They didn't, thank heaven and I've destroyed as many photos of that day as I can find!

ATTENTION:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl worent you luck Lulu:D

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:16 pm

I support marriage as an institution but not as a legal contract

That simple statement really pisses me off.......... Marriage IS A CONTRACT and how can you POSSIBLY SAY IT IS AN INSTITUTION!!!!!

An institution is sooooo different from marriage.

Go to college - go to the institution......get an education--cool

Get married.....get and have a family..have LOVE in your life - majorly cool

SuzyB · Post by **SuzyB** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:33 am

Lulu2 wrote: SUZYB "After close family deaths and me nearly dying twice we've decided to go for it next year!!"

I WANT TO BE A CYBER BRIDESMAID! PLEASE? I'LL EVEN WEAR AN UGLY DRESS!

OF COURSE YOU CAN, AND DON'T WORRY I WONT PICK YOU A DODGY DRESS:sneaky: :sneaky:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:55 am

nvalleyvee wrote: I support marriage as an institution but not as a legal contract

That simple statement really pisses me off.......... Marriage IS A CONTRACT and how can you POSSIBLY SAY IT IS AN INSTITUTION!!!!!

An institution is sooooo different from marriage.

Go to college - go to the institution......get an education--cool

Get married.....get and have a family..have LOVE in your life - majorly coolInstitution has more than one definition.

American Heritage Dictionary

in·sti·tu·tion

A custom, practice, relationship, or behavioral pattern of importance in the life of a community or society: the institutions of marriage and the family.

Informal. One long associated with a specified place, position, or function.

An established organization or foundation, especially one dedicated to education, public service, or culture.

The building or buildings housing such an organization.

A place for the care of persons who are destitute, disabled, or mentally ill.
If you're still pissed, let me know.

twizzel · Post by **twizzel** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:14 pm

SuzyB wrote: Jim and i have been living together for ten years (we broke up for 5 months nearly 3 years ago), we have always wanted to be married to each other but seemed to just drift along quite happy as we were. After close family deaths and me nearly dying twice we've decided to go for it next year!! :-4 :-4

Are you shaw he is just not interested in the insurance he might think 3rd time lucky

SuzyB · Post by **SuzyB** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:26 pm

twizzel wrote: Are you shaw he is just not interested in the insurance he might think 3rd time lucky

God damn i didn't think of that, changed my mind about the pre-nup:-5

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:44 pm

SuzyB wrote: God damn i didn't think of that, changed my mind about the pre-nup:-5

my darling little angel nearly died twice ,soooo third time lucky means you would of died ,sooooo a pre nup would help you how ? x x x x x x x love you :wah: :wah:

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:46 pm

Cant you guys just talk across the room too each other?:wah: