I loathe Blair.
I loathe him all the more because when he got into power I really believed that we had a great chance for a Labour government to achieve real change.
The last 3 terms have been a long, slow slide for me towards cynicism, disillusionment and a secret hankering after Thatcher (:eek: ).
I really have got to the stage of not wanting to live here any longer.
We have a power-mad government who believe in spin, not substance, a breathtaking belief in our stupidity and apathy as voters, and who probably have sex with their spouses based on reaching maximum target performance.
We have followed Bush slavishly into war and entered into Iraq illegally ; the BBC (our public bastion of intellectual independence and scepticism) was treated like a PR company and threatened by the likes of Alistair Campbell when it continued to ask relevant questions about the basis for war and the alleged links between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein.
We have enormous cultural gulfs between ethnic groups.
We sell peerages for cash sums ("loans" har har) and have a schizoid approach to law and order ; we want to squash yobbishness and binge drinking, but grant 24 alcohol licences and are in negotiations for super-casinos
The government override planning objections because of the perceived need to pavement the whole of Britain to feed insatiable housing needs.
Schools are rubbish; exams are devalued (because equal opportunities means picking a low common denominator to ensure 5 million 18 year olds can get a degree in Media Studies). Manufacturing has gone but we can't even do service industries well (most of them are or will be outsourced to India). Many school leavers can't spell or do simple maths.
The NHS is in it's death throes. QED.
People fly to Europe to get affordable dental treatment.
We have silly numbers as far as immigration is concerned - not enough housing, not enough assurances that economic migrants can pay tax, NI etc
Crime is rife - but the figures would tell us differently.
We live in an increasingly patronising and nanny-like state where we're all treated effectively as children.
I appreciate that many of these are long-standing problems - but I detest the way the Blair government has dealt with them.
Not only should Blair go - we should make damned sure that New Labour do not get into power again.
(The small question of who would be any good to replace them is - ummm- tricky -_
Vive La Revolution!
Blair Must Go
Blair Must Go
posted by Yavanna
The last 3 terms have been a long, slow slide for me towards cynicism, disillusionment and a secret hankering after Thatcher ( ).
:eek:
Hate to say it bit I almost feel the same. Much as I couldn't stand Thatcher I doubt very much she would have got us in to this mess in Iraq. At least you could dislike her and not feel like you were spending time disliking a pile of toxic sludge. Honest muck she was.
I always reckoned TB got in on the back of the goodwill created by John Smith and the voters have been in shock ever since the reality became evident. It's like a car crash-you know it's going to happen but you have lost the ability to turn the wheel but you know what will happen if you don't.
posted by arnold layne
Its not the first time I have said here that I have been hankering after a strong leadership of the type that Maggie offered. And thats rich coming from me. I remember only too well the consequences of THAT regime. But I feel she wouldnt have allowed this country to be overwhelmed by political correctness, immigration problems the like of which we could never have imagined and ludicrous legislation from the beaurocrats of Europe
What we need is a parliament that reflects the actual voting of the british public and an electoral system that allows it. Maggie started this leadership cult thing that is getting us in to this mess. What we need are parliamentarians who know they are in charge and don't belieive getting re-elected depends on the leader of the party. TB should have been boted out once it became unmistakably clear that he lied to the house.
What happened to the labour party? they are just sitting there letting them away with it. O.K as an old boys club it made the Tories look like rank amateurs but at least there was always someone that would stand up and shout get stuffed.
I live in what was Robin cook's constituency, pity he died as i reckon he would have been a prime candidate for leadership right now.
The last 3 terms have been a long, slow slide for me towards cynicism, disillusionment and a secret hankering after Thatcher ( ).
:eek:
Hate to say it bit I almost feel the same. Much as I couldn't stand Thatcher I doubt very much she would have got us in to this mess in Iraq. At least you could dislike her and not feel like you were spending time disliking a pile of toxic sludge. Honest muck she was.
I always reckoned TB got in on the back of the goodwill created by John Smith and the voters have been in shock ever since the reality became evident. It's like a car crash-you know it's going to happen but you have lost the ability to turn the wheel but you know what will happen if you don't.
posted by arnold layne
Its not the first time I have said here that I have been hankering after a strong leadership of the type that Maggie offered. And thats rich coming from me. I remember only too well the consequences of THAT regime. But I feel she wouldnt have allowed this country to be overwhelmed by political correctness, immigration problems the like of which we could never have imagined and ludicrous legislation from the beaurocrats of Europe
What we need is a parliament that reflects the actual voting of the british public and an electoral system that allows it. Maggie started this leadership cult thing that is getting us in to this mess. What we need are parliamentarians who know they are in charge and don't belieive getting re-elected depends on the leader of the party. TB should have been boted out once it became unmistakably clear that he lied to the house.
What happened to the labour party? they are just sitting there letting them away with it. O.K as an old boys club it made the Tories look like rank amateurs but at least there was always someone that would stand up and shout get stuffed.
I live in what was Robin cook's constituency, pity he died as i reckon he would have been a prime candidate for leadership right now.
Blair Must Go
gmc wrote: What happened to the labour party? .
It got into power, that's what happened.
'S funny you guys feel the same way about Thatcher ; I'm sure we're looking back with rose-tinted glasses - after all, we had the Falklands War, the decimation of the miners (I was living in Durham at the time and remember it well) and so on.
But at least we had a sense of expecting people to be self-sufficient instead of constantly harping on about their human rights (conveniently forgetting that with every right comes a responsibility to do your bit).
And I also think the electorate was much more vociferous and empowered than we are now ; we've grown into a generation of X-boxers who have given up on collective responsibility.
God, I really am middle aged. Slippers and a pipe next !
It got into power, that's what happened.
'S funny you guys feel the same way about Thatcher ; I'm sure we're looking back with rose-tinted glasses - after all, we had the Falklands War, the decimation of the miners (I was living in Durham at the time and remember it well) and so on.
But at least we had a sense of expecting people to be self-sufficient instead of constantly harping on about their human rights (conveniently forgetting that with every right comes a responsibility to do your bit).
And I also think the electorate was much more vociferous and empowered than we are now ; we've grown into a generation of X-boxers who have given up on collective responsibility.
God, I really am middle aged. Slippers and a pipe next !
Blair Must Go
Shall thee and me start one up, then, lass?
(sorry - don't know you - just the Yorkshire thing in your avatar:D )
(sorry - don't know you - just the Yorkshire thing in your avatar:D )
-
Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Blair Must Go
Yavanna wrote: I loathe Blair.
Wake up at the back there!
Yavanna wrote: We have a power-mad government who believe in spin, not substance, a breathtaking belief in our stupidity and apathy as voters, and who probably have sex with their spouses based on reaching maximum target performance.
We have followed Bush slavishly into war and entered into Iraq illegally ; the BBC (our public bastion of intellectual independence and scepticism) was treated like a PR company and threatened by the likes of Alistair Campbell when it continued to ask relevant questions about the basis for war and the alleged links between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein.
We have enormous cultural gulfs between ethnic groups.
We sell peerages for cash sums ("loans" har har) and have a schizoid approach to law and order ; we want to squash yobbishness and binge drinking, but grant 24 alcohol licences and are in negotiations for super-casinos
The government override planning objections because of the perceived need to pavement the whole of Britain to feed insatiable housing needs.
Schools are rubbish; exams are devalued (because equal opportunities means picking a low common denominator to ensure 5 million 18 year olds can get a degree in Media Studies). Manufacturing has gone but we can't even do service industries well (most of them are or will be outsourced to India). Many school leavers can't spell or do simple maths.
The NHS is in it's death throes. QED.
People fly to Europe to get affordable dental treatment.
We have silly numbers as far as immigration is concerned - not enough housing, not enough assurances that economic migrants can pay tax, NI etc
Crime is rife - but the figures would tell us differently.
We live in an increasingly patronising and nanny-like state where we're all treated effectively as children.
I appreciate that many of these are long-standing problems - but I detest the way the Blair government has dealt with them.
Not only should Blair go - we should make damned sure that New Labour do not get into power again.
(The small question of who would be any good to replace them is - ummm- tricky -_
Vive La Revolution!
Vote for the honesty party? Oh, arr, it does not exist. A step back from spin,
and the dreadful "Presidential" style of the PM would be great!
What I'd like to see is more public involvement in voting. The vast majority of
the population have a bank account. Let the banks be paid (at cost!) by the
govt. to issue "voting cards", like bank cards, with the same sort of security,
to allow a vote by card holders to show opinion, and influence government.
Not too difficult to carry that out, based on existing commercial systems.
Wake up at the back there!
Yavanna wrote: We have a power-mad government who believe in spin, not substance, a breathtaking belief in our stupidity and apathy as voters, and who probably have sex with their spouses based on reaching maximum target performance.
We have followed Bush slavishly into war and entered into Iraq illegally ; the BBC (our public bastion of intellectual independence and scepticism) was treated like a PR company and threatened by the likes of Alistair Campbell when it continued to ask relevant questions about the basis for war and the alleged links between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein.
We have enormous cultural gulfs between ethnic groups.
We sell peerages for cash sums ("loans" har har) and have a schizoid approach to law and order ; we want to squash yobbishness and binge drinking, but grant 24 alcohol licences and are in negotiations for super-casinos
The government override planning objections because of the perceived need to pavement the whole of Britain to feed insatiable housing needs.
Schools are rubbish; exams are devalued (because equal opportunities means picking a low common denominator to ensure 5 million 18 year olds can get a degree in Media Studies). Manufacturing has gone but we can't even do service industries well (most of them are or will be outsourced to India). Many school leavers can't spell or do simple maths.
The NHS is in it's death throes. QED.
People fly to Europe to get affordable dental treatment.
We have silly numbers as far as immigration is concerned - not enough housing, not enough assurances that economic migrants can pay tax, NI etc
Crime is rife - but the figures would tell us differently.
We live in an increasingly patronising and nanny-like state where we're all treated effectively as children.
I appreciate that many of these are long-standing problems - but I detest the way the Blair government has dealt with them.
Not only should Blair go - we should make damned sure that New Labour do not get into power again.
(The small question of who would be any good to replace them is - ummm- tricky -_
Vive La Revolution!
Vote for the honesty party? Oh, arr, it does not exist. A step back from spin,
and the dreadful "Presidential" style of the PM would be great!
What I'd like to see is more public involvement in voting. The vast majority of
the population have a bank account. Let the banks be paid (at cost!) by the
govt. to issue "voting cards", like bank cards, with the same sort of security,
to allow a vote by card holders to show opinion, and influence government.
Not too difficult to carry that out, based on existing commercial systems.
Blair Must Go
Bill Sikes wrote: Wake up at the back there!
Vote for the honesty party? Oh, arr, it does not exist. A step back from spin,
and the dreadful "Presidential" style of the PM would be great!
What I'd like to see is more public involvement in voting. The vast majority of
the population have a bank account. Let the banks be paid (at cost!) by the
govt. to issue "voting cards", like bank cards, with the same sort of security,
to allow a vote by card holders to show opinion, and influence government.
Not too difficult to carry that out, based on existing commercial systems.
Getting the voting systems out there is not a problem - we could have refferenda daily in a secure and fraud proof system within a year.
But getting the input of the population implies informed decision and therein lies the rub. Instead of reducing the spin you suddenly make it even more important and mis-information would be flying around so thickly that we'd be covered in guano.
How do you propose that the public gets the accurate, unbiased, information it would require to have a meaningful vote?
Vote for the honesty party? Oh, arr, it does not exist. A step back from spin,
and the dreadful "Presidential" style of the PM would be great!
What I'd like to see is more public involvement in voting. The vast majority of
the population have a bank account. Let the banks be paid (at cost!) by the
govt. to issue "voting cards", like bank cards, with the same sort of security,
to allow a vote by card holders to show opinion, and influence government.
Not too difficult to carry that out, based on existing commercial systems.
Getting the voting systems out there is not a problem - we could have refferenda daily in a secure and fraud proof system within a year.
But getting the input of the population implies informed decision and therein lies the rub. Instead of reducing the spin you suddenly make it even more important and mis-information would be flying around so thickly that we'd be covered in guano.
How do you propose that the public gets the accurate, unbiased, information it would require to have a meaningful vote?
Blair Must Go
Yavanna wrote: It got into power, that's what happened.
'S funny you guys feel the same way about Thatcher ; I'm sure we're looking back with rose-tinted glasses - after all, we had the Falklands War, the decimation of the miners (I was living in Durham at the time and remember it well) and so on.
But at least we had a sense of expecting people to be self-sufficient instead of constantly harping on about their human rights (conveniently forgetting that with every right comes a responsibility to do your bit).
And I also think the electorate was much more vociferous and empowered than we are now ; we've grown into a generation of X-boxers who have given up on collective responsibility.
God, I really am middle aged. Slippers and a pipe next !
Don't misunderstand I disliked Thatcher with a passion but I doubt she would tell lies to take the country to war even if you can argue she has caused irretreivable harm.
TB and new labour are in a different league of control freakery and corruption, I think part of the reason parliament went along with Iraq is hat no one could quite believe a prime minister would lie to that extent. Bit like the emperor's new clothes, no one could quite accept that what what they weren't seeing was the reality. Conforming has become the new trend in politics with everybody singing from the same hymn sheet and no one wants to stand out form the chorus or bang a different drum.
Incidentally maybe the West lothian question will be brought up again. Most scots opbjected to polcies being foisted on us despite overwhelmoing opposition-most notably the poll tax. So very few will object if scots MP's get barred from voting on a particularly english issue-why should they vote on education for instance? we have a different system and rejected many of labour's reforms. for scot's MP's to have a vote is wrong.
'S funny you guys feel the same way about Thatcher ; I'm sure we're looking back with rose-tinted glasses - after all, we had the Falklands War, the decimation of the miners (I was living in Durham at the time and remember it well) and so on.
But at least we had a sense of expecting people to be self-sufficient instead of constantly harping on about their human rights (conveniently forgetting that with every right comes a responsibility to do your bit).
And I also think the electorate was much more vociferous and empowered than we are now ; we've grown into a generation of X-boxers who have given up on collective responsibility.
God, I really am middle aged. Slippers and a pipe next !
Don't misunderstand I disliked Thatcher with a passion but I doubt she would tell lies to take the country to war even if you can argue she has caused irretreivable harm.
TB and new labour are in a different league of control freakery and corruption, I think part of the reason parliament went along with Iraq is hat no one could quite believe a prime minister would lie to that extent. Bit like the emperor's new clothes, no one could quite accept that what what they weren't seeing was the reality. Conforming has become the new trend in politics with everybody singing from the same hymn sheet and no one wants to stand out form the chorus or bang a different drum.
Incidentally maybe the West lothian question will be brought up again. Most scots opbjected to polcies being foisted on us despite overwhelmoing opposition-most notably the poll tax. So very few will object if scots MP's get barred from voting on a particularly english issue-why should they vote on education for instance? we have a different system and rejected many of labour's reforms. for scot's MP's to have a vote is wrong.
-
Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Blair Must Go
Originally Posted by Bill Sikes
What I'd like to see is more public involvement in voting. The vast majority of
the population have a bank account. Let the banks be paid (at cost!) by the
govt. to issue "voting cards", like bank cards, with the same sort of security,
to allow a vote by card holders to show opinion, and influence government.
Bryn Mawr wrote: How do you propose that the public gets the accurate, unbiased, information it would require to have a meaningful vote?
The way it gets it now. Do you feel capable of expressing your opinion? I do.
What I'd like to see is more public involvement in voting. The vast majority of
the population have a bank account. Let the banks be paid (at cost!) by the
govt. to issue "voting cards", like bank cards, with the same sort of security,
to allow a vote by card holders to show opinion, and influence government.
Bryn Mawr wrote: How do you propose that the public gets the accurate, unbiased, information it would require to have a meaningful vote?
The way it gets it now. Do you feel capable of expressing your opinion? I do.
Blair Must Go
Hamster wrote: Sounds good Yavanna....What are we going to call ourselves? :wah:
I quite like the sound of The Cowbag Coalition Party.......I'd like Ann Widdicombe and Janet Street-Porter to join.....
Honestly, you start up a thread about a serious issue and end up talking about Frosties, photos and made-up parties :rolleyes: :p
Bryn Mawr has a point, I think ; the only party which I think hasn't been brainwashed by spin doctors is the Liberal Party.
Who believes what most politicians say these days? There are a few people of conviction and conscience left, who will say what they really believe - Robin Cook was one, Tony Benn, Claire Short and - gasp Ann Widdicombe - but the party controllers are so obsessed about telling us what they think we want to hear that I don't trust a word any of 'em say, nor a statistic, nor a "fact".
You can pretty much be sure that as soon as a politician says "Let's be clear about this", he or she means "Let me me feed you meaningless pap as if you were 18 months old and you're too dumb to know the difference".
Perhaps it really is time our form of democracy was scrapped. Proportional representation would be fairer - but would it result in paralysis at government level? I fear decision-making by committee just ends up as no decisions being made at all.....
I quite like the sound of The Cowbag Coalition Party.......I'd like Ann Widdicombe and Janet Street-Porter to join.....
Honestly, you start up a thread about a serious issue and end up talking about Frosties, photos and made-up parties :rolleyes: :p
Bryn Mawr has a point, I think ; the only party which I think hasn't been brainwashed by spin doctors is the Liberal Party.
Who believes what most politicians say these days? There are a few people of conviction and conscience left, who will say what they really believe - Robin Cook was one, Tony Benn, Claire Short and - gasp
Ann Widdicombe - but the party controllers are so obsessed about telling us what they think we want to hear that I don't trust a word any of 'em say, nor a statistic, nor a "fact".You can pretty much be sure that as soon as a politician says "Let's be clear about this", he or she means "Let me me feed you meaningless pap as if you were 18 months old and you're too dumb to know the difference".
Perhaps it really is time our form of democracy was scrapped. Proportional representation would be fairer - but would it result in paralysis at government level? I fear decision-making by committee just ends up as no decisions being made at all.....
Blair Must Go
posted by yavanna
Perhaps it really is time our form of democracy was scrapped. Proportional representation would be fairer - but would it result in paralysis at government level? I fear decision-making by committee just ends up as no decisions being made at all.....
Not scrapped but it is due a change IMO. After twenty six years of the tories and new labour screwing up the country maybe management by committee is worth a try. It's a falsehood that you ned a strong leader. too often it means a personality that is incapable of delegating and trusting others and one which takes criticism as disloyalty. Maggie emasculated the Tory party as any politician worth his salt would not tolerate touching his forelock and doing just what they are told. TB has brought in cronyism of the worst sort. Labour like the tories have always tended to running a little club TB just took it to new depths. It is also very unbritish to play follow the leader. Always amuses me when politicians start banging on about britishness-one of the most eclectic countries on the planet if there is one thing that is typically british it is the readiness, when opush comes to shove to tell would be leaders where to go.
Tell me is there a major politician around today you would employ?
I think you underestimate the british voter, when they get annoyed enough they are more than capable of sorting out politicians and putting them back in their place. New labour I think are making a mistake in taking their vote for granted, even the most die hard labouirite is Pissed off.
Perhaps it really is time our form of democracy was scrapped. Proportional representation would be fairer - but would it result in paralysis at government level? I fear decision-making by committee just ends up as no decisions being made at all.....
Not scrapped but it is due a change IMO. After twenty six years of the tories and new labour screwing up the country maybe management by committee is worth a try. It's a falsehood that you ned a strong leader. too often it means a personality that is incapable of delegating and trusting others and one which takes criticism as disloyalty. Maggie emasculated the Tory party as any politician worth his salt would not tolerate touching his forelock and doing just what they are told. TB has brought in cronyism of the worst sort. Labour like the tories have always tended to running a little club TB just took it to new depths. It is also very unbritish to play follow the leader. Always amuses me when politicians start banging on about britishness-one of the most eclectic countries on the planet if there is one thing that is typically british it is the readiness, when opush comes to shove to tell would be leaders where to go.
Tell me is there a major politician around today you would employ?
I think you underestimate the british voter, when they get annoyed enough they are more than capable of sorting out politicians and putting them back in their place. New labour I think are making a mistake in taking their vote for granted, even the most die hard labouirite is Pissed off.
Blair Must Go
ArnoldLayne wrote: I would go further and say that the die hard Labourite is more pissed off than your average voter. The likes of Tony Benn and his ilke are either suppressed or are biting their lip so hard they cant talk.
A major politicain I would employ ? Well Boris Johnson would entertain the nation the most and he has the uncanny ability to be honest to the point of self destruction. While New Labour is made from 24 ct buffoons, he at least doesnt pretend to be anything else
I might add that my suggestion has more than a hint of tongue in cheek
I'd agree with you there. Up here the scottish labour party seem to be getting woried about the tony effect. It's not just iraq some of his other domestic policies , having two scots preside over the disbanding of the scottish regiments is but one that gets people blazing mad at TB and his pals. Right now if any other party was putting a good case they would walk it imo.
I like Boris Johnson as well-at least he is prepared to take the heat for things going wrong when he has the responsibility.
A major politicain I would employ ? Well Boris Johnson would entertain the nation the most and he has the uncanny ability to be honest to the point of self destruction. While New Labour is made from 24 ct buffoons, he at least doesnt pretend to be anything else
I might add that my suggestion has more than a hint of tongue in cheek
I'd agree with you there. Up here the scottish labour party seem to be getting woried about the tony effect. It's not just iraq some of his other domestic policies , having two scots preside over the disbanding of the scottish regiments is but one that gets people blazing mad at TB and his pals. Right now if any other party was putting a good case they would walk it imo.
I like Boris Johnson as well-at least he is prepared to take the heat for things going wrong when he has the responsibility.
Blair Must Go
I'd be willing to give proportional representation a go on the basis that if it's broke, mend it.
But without a demand for electoral reform that the leading parties hear, how will we ever get it? I demand a revolution!
But without a demand for electoral reform that the leading parties hear, how will we ever get it? I demand a revolution!
Blair Must Go
ArnoldLayne wrote: Its something the Liberal Democrats have been subscribing to for years but it scares the other two witless.
It also has to be said that with PR comes representation for fringe politics like BNP and the SWP but maybe they would cancel each other out.
I think it should be at least considered. Im not sure of any other negatives that would come bundled with PR. I'm sure someone here will enlighten us
It would also bring the fringe in to the light of day so people can see what they really are. PR was imposed on Germany post ww2 precisely because itvstopped a fringe party gaining a disproportionate share of seats that their actual support would allow.
On of the reasons labour is worried in scotland is because we have a form of PR. Scots tories are now in favour as without it they would have no seats at all.
It also has to be said that with PR comes representation for fringe politics like BNP and the SWP but maybe they would cancel each other out.
I think it should be at least considered. Im not sure of any other negatives that would come bundled with PR. I'm sure someone here will enlighten us
It would also bring the fringe in to the light of day so people can see what they really are. PR was imposed on Germany post ww2 precisely because itvstopped a fringe party gaining a disproportionate share of seats that their actual support would allow.
On of the reasons labour is worried in scotland is because we have a form of PR. Scots tories are now in favour as without it they would have no seats at all.
Blair Must Go
See, what I can't help wondering is whether, regardless of the electoral system we choose, we would end up with the same problems - because they are systemic problems, rather than party political ones.
By that I mean that it seems self-evident to me we have the following fundamental problems ( all of which are vast generalisations but which I think have more than a grain of truth) :
A shrinking pool of tax and NI payers ; those who are paying tax are paying higher taxes than I can recall ever being the case (but conversely, are shrinking in number)
A population that is growing older and all the pension black holes which that generates
A population of illiterate, innumerate and indifferent kids coming from school/uni, most of whom seem to think that it's a legitimate career ambition to audition for X Factor (bile overflow - can't help it)
Not enough physical space in the country
A rights-based culture which fails to insist upon corresponding responsibilities
Immigration problems
An infrastructure on its last legs - the power companies, water companies, rail companies, NHS, education, etc - all seem to be tottering along in their death throes
I realise this sounds very Revalations like in its doom and gloom, but it's genuinely how I feel.
Problem is - once you get a rights-based culture, where everyone expects to be housed, fed, educated, healed and have their asses wiped for them, how do you start to undo those assumptions? Without hundreds of thousands of people taking the state to the European Court of Human Rights?
By that I mean that it seems self-evident to me we have the following fundamental problems ( all of which are vast generalisations but which I think have more than a grain of truth) :
A shrinking pool of tax and NI payers ; those who are paying tax are paying higher taxes than I can recall ever being the case (but conversely, are shrinking in number)
A population that is growing older and all the pension black holes which that generates
A population of illiterate, innumerate and indifferent kids coming from school/uni, most of whom seem to think that it's a legitimate career ambition to audition for X Factor (bile overflow - can't help it)
Not enough physical space in the country
A rights-based culture which fails to insist upon corresponding responsibilities
Immigration problems
An infrastructure on its last legs - the power companies, water companies, rail companies, NHS, education, etc - all seem to be tottering along in their death throes
I realise this sounds very Revalations like in its doom and gloom, but it's genuinely how I feel.
Problem is - once you get a rights-based culture, where everyone expects to be housed, fed, educated, healed and have their asses wiped for them, how do you start to undo those assumptions? Without hundreds of thousands of people taking the state to the European Court of Human Rights?
Blair Must Go
ArnoldLayne wrote: So lets go there and we can all not pay income tax. The money you earn is entirely yours to do and spend as you wish
Oh, the temptation! Think of all the lovely clothes I could buy! But I wouldn't go as far as that ; I do expect an infrastructure around me that I accept I have to pay towards. Society should offer a safety net to people who would otherwise starve - I just think it's gone too far the other way.
For example, I really do resent paying for working or child tax credit for families, when I don't have kids myself ; not only am I expected to pick up the slack for people who want flexi time or part time work to look after kids, but I also subsidise their choices through my taxes.
If the logic is that I should be helping to bring up the next generation so their taxes and NI can help me in my old age, this is what I have to say - the state pension won't keep me in Marks & Spencer's knickers, so any contriution they make will be minimal and meaningless in the scale of an ageing population, but also, I have no faith that our education system is turning out a generation of grafters. Really, I don't. Half of the people I interview for jobs who have degrees have A Levels in General Studies and a 2:1 that means very little - their CVs make clear that they can't even spell properly half the time!
I do think we will end up with a local income tax in the next 10 to 15 years. I reckon that will throw up the same problems. I live in a very poor area of the country, where salaries are very low, but where house prices are very high (because of second home owners). If I have to subsidise the low incomes in Cornwall through a local income tax, I might as well give up work myself - most of my hard-earned cash will go on supporting New Agers who claim Housing Benefit and helping out people who work hard but aren't paid much.
I can tell I'm approaching 40 ; I called a young man serving me coffee in a shop the other day "love". :-3
Oh, the temptation! Think of all the lovely clothes I could buy! But I wouldn't go as far as that ; I do expect an infrastructure around me that I accept I have to pay towards. Society should offer a safety net to people who would otherwise starve - I just think it's gone too far the other way.
For example, I really do resent paying for working or child tax credit for families, when I don't have kids myself ; not only am I expected to pick up the slack for people who want flexi time or part time work to look after kids, but I also subsidise their choices through my taxes.
If the logic is that I should be helping to bring up the next generation so their taxes and NI can help me in my old age, this is what I have to say - the state pension won't keep me in Marks & Spencer's knickers, so any contriution they make will be minimal and meaningless in the scale of an ageing population, but also, I have no faith that our education system is turning out a generation of grafters. Really, I don't. Half of the people I interview for jobs who have degrees have A Levels in General Studies and a 2:1 that means very little - their CVs make clear that they can't even spell properly half the time!
I do think we will end up with a local income tax in the next 10 to 15 years. I reckon that will throw up the same problems. I live in a very poor area of the country, where salaries are very low, but where house prices are very high (because of second home owners). If I have to subsidise the low incomes in Cornwall through a local income tax, I might as well give up work myself - most of my hard-earned cash will go on supporting New Agers who claim Housing Benefit and helping out people who work hard but aren't paid much.
I can tell I'm approaching 40 ; I called a young man serving me coffee in a shop the other day "love". :-3
Blair Must Go
Bill Sikes wrote: Originally Posted by Bill Sikes
What I'd like to see is more public involvement in voting. The vast majority of
the population have a bank account. Let the banks be paid (at cost!) by the
govt. to issue "voting cards", like bank cards, with the same sort of security,
to allow a vote by card holders to show opinion, and influence government.
The way it gets it now. Do you feel capable of expressing your opinion? I do.
My point is that the way we get our information now is flawed and open to manipulation by those in power - especially so if the result of a referendum is at stake.
How do you propose to prevent the disemination of misinformation, the twisting of facts and other methods of manipulating mass opinion they would surely be used if we moved to a system of goverment by referendum?
Until we can answer that question in a robust and verifiable fasion then I do not see how it can work.
What I'd like to see is more public involvement in voting. The vast majority of
the population have a bank account. Let the banks be paid (at cost!) by the
govt. to issue "voting cards", like bank cards, with the same sort of security,
to allow a vote by card holders to show opinion, and influence government.
The way it gets it now. Do you feel capable of expressing your opinion? I do.
My point is that the way we get our information now is flawed and open to manipulation by those in power - especially so if the result of a referendum is at stake.
How do you propose to prevent the disemination of misinformation, the twisting of facts and other methods of manipulating mass opinion they would surely be used if we moved to a system of goverment by referendum?
Until we can answer that question in a robust and verifiable fasion then I do not see how it can work.