Church of God

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:59 am

An Evangelical church with six million members worldwide is planning to build a 10m euro church in County Louth in Southern Ireland.

Over 1,300 worshippers will be able to attend sesions in the church. It is being built by the Irish arm of the Church of God, a religious movement in the US at Cleveland.

The Church which preaches strict adherence to the bible and keeping Sunday holy.

The site will also house a penthouse and a bible teaching school.

www.unison.ie/

john8pies · Post by **john8pies** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:34 pm

Interesting development in a predominantly Roman Catholic country..............

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:30 pm

Yes it is. But Rome will perhaps them in before long. As it is trying to do with the Angelicans. They are not shouting that the Reformation was a farce.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:02 am

Do you think they get the protestant/catholic thing?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:07 pm

I think "The Church of God" is another example of "everyone else has it wrong but us". It is a narrow and untenable point of view.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:33 pm

Ted wrote: I think "The Church of God" is another example of "everyone else has it wrong but us". It is a narrow and untenable point of view.

Shalom

Ted :-6
I seem to remember you saying you were pretty tightly tuned in on the scholars in your denomination. You see your way as broad and inclusive to the point it has become a doctrine that is narrow and exclusive. Only those who subscribe to your view are right...right? What is the difference?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:59 pm

Clint :-6

First of all I read many scholars that are not of my denomination. In fact I don't belong to a denomination. I belong to the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Our Lord was also broad and inclusive. However, when he was up against somthing he strongly disagreed with he spoke his mind: the Pharasees.

I believe I know enough about this church to know that it is one of those that is strictly exclusive and believes they have the only way. You see I was raised in such a church and left it when I realized that it was not practising what it preached.

That being said, I have given my personal view on what I believe this church to be. I cannot judge this church as that is not my role but I don't have to go along with it either especially when I don't agree with them exclusivity.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:26 pm

Ted wrote:

I belong to the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Is that the one formed in England in 1837 in anticipation of Chist's second coming and claiming to have historical continuity to him?

turbonium · Post by **turbonium** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:06 pm

Moderator - can you add a little "powder keg" smiley that can be attached to the title of threads that may end up go "boom!"?

(just kidding)

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:05 pm

Clint :-6

Not at all. If you didn't notice I used the term "Apostolic". That church goes right back to the apostles themselves. Much older then 1837.

Shalom

Ted :-6

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:11 pm

Ted wrote: Clint :-6

First of all I read many scholars that are not of my denomination. In fact I don't belong to a denomination. I belong to the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Our Lord was also broad and inclusive. However, when he was up against somthing he strongly disagreed with he spoke his mind: the Pharasees.

I believe I know enough about this church to know that it is one of those that is strictly exclusive and believes they have the only way. You see I was raised in such a church and left it when I realized that it was not practising what it preached.

That being said, I have given my personal view on what I believe this church to be. I cannot judge this church as that is not my role but I don't have to go along with it either especially when I don't agree with them exclusivity.

Shalom

Ted :-6What may I ask is Holy Ted?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:14 pm

capt :-6

Was that "Holy Ted" or "Holy, Ted".

Shalom

Ted :-6

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:20 pm

Ted wrote: capt :-6

Was that "Holy Ted" or "Holy, Ted".

Shalom

Ted :-6I meant just HOLY

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:26 pm

capt :-6

If we accept the panentheistic theology then all life is in one way or another both sacred and Holy. Since we are in Divine and the Divine is in all living creatures in one way or another we reflect not only the image of Divinity but also the "Character" of the Divine.

Shalom

Ted :-6

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:34 pm

and that could be said of same Jihad.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:47 pm

capt :-6

I am not the judge. Yes I would kill in self defense. On the other hand perhaps it is time for the western world--mostly the US to look at their foreign policy to see why they are so hated by many. I am convinced of the general goodness of humanity as a whole.

Looking at the statistics that Matthew Fox has suggested, I think explains a lot and unless we as a western world change our ways we are indeed in for a hell of a pile of trouble. I hope not but????

It is interesting if one is Palestinian the jihad is both holy and right in the eyes of many. Yet looking at it from a western point of view it is evil.

When is a terrorist a terrorist and when is s/he a freedom fighter? Menacham Begin of Israel was a terrorist or was he a freedom fighter? The same can be asked of Yasser Arafat.

Shalom

Ted :-6

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:51 pm

Ted wrote: capt :-6

I am not the judge. Yes I would kill in self defense. On the other hand perhaps it is time for the western world--mostly the US to look at their foreign policy to see why they are so hated by many. I am convinced of the general goodness of humanity as a whole.

Looking at the statistics that Matthew Fox has suggested, I think explains a lot and unless we as a western world change our ways we are indeed in for a hell of a pile of trouble. I hope not but????

It is interesting if one is Palestinian the jihad is both holy and right in the eyes of many. Yet looking at it from a western point of view it is evil.

When is a terrorist a terrorist and when is s/he a freedom fighter? Menacham Begin of Israel was a terrorist or was he a freedom fighter? The same can be asked of Yasser Arafat.

Shalom

Ted :-6And our own Gerry Adams & Martin McGuinness.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:55 pm

capt :-6

You "know" them better then I do. Do they have some valid points to make.? Do they point out injustices that need to be corrected?

That man must resort to weapons to make his point is indeed very sad. But on the other hand what else are they to do if their point is valid and yet they are not heard?

I don't have an answer.

We have similar problems in Canada but they have not yet reached that point. Perhaps one day they will.

Shalom

Ted :-6

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:03 pm

Ted wrote: capt :-6

You "know" them better then I do. Do they have some valid points to make.? Do they point out injustices that need to be corrected?

That man must resort to weapons to make his point is indeed very sad. But on the other hand what else are they to do if their point is valid and yet they are not heard?

I don't have an answer.

We have similar problems in Canada but they have not yet reached that point. Perhaps one day they will.

Shalom

Ted :-6and Those who use the sword, shall die by the sword.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:08 pm

capt :-6

I firmly agree with that. However, I still must ask how it is that folks get pushed to the "point of no return" when it comes to weapons. It is like the suicide victim s/he feels that there is nothing left to do but opt out of life. It is very sad.

In the case of India Ghandi used civil disobedience and it still cost him his life. But at least it was a life not wasted. He succeeded. When are folks going to learn to sit down and resolve their issues in a peacful manner? I know in some cases it is greed but that is not so in all cases.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:11 pm

capt :-6

It's eat time here. Will talk later.

Shalom

Ted :-6

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:13 pm

Ted wrote: capt :-6

It's eat time here. Will talk later.

Shalom

Ted :-6
Enjoy it Friend.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:10 pm

Ted wrote: Clint :-6

Not at all. If you didn't notice I used the term "Apostolic". That church goes right back to the apostles themselves. Much older then 1837.

Shalom

Ted :-6
The group formed in 1867 calls themselves Ã¢â‚¬Å“ApostolicÃ¢â‚¬ was well. I like following the Apostles. They practiced Judaism you know. Do you also celebrate Passover and observe Yom Kippur, etc.?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:37 pm

Clint :-6

I do not observe Passover or Yom Kippur as I am not of the Jewish faith. However, as the forfathers of the Christian faith I have every respect for the Jewish faith and its followers. How could I do anything different since my Lord was a Jew and a devout one at that.

I have nothing to offer the Jews except best wishes. Since salvation comes from the Jews I guess we have much to thank them for.

Shalom

Ted :-6

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:50 pm

Ted wrote: Clint :-6

I do not observe Passover or Yom Kippur as I am not of the Jewish faith. However, as the forfathers of the Christian faith I have every respect for the Jewish faith and its followers. How could I do anything different since my Lord was a Jew and a devout one at that.

I have nothing to offer the Jews except best wishes. Since salvation comes from the Jews I guess we have much to thank them for.

Shalom

Ted :-6
Amen!

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:41 pm

The number of evangelical Christians in Ireland has grown by a massive 1,000pc.

The Evangelical Alliance in Ireland has conducted a survey, contacted heads of evangelical congregations in the Dublin city area and has found that an estimated 13,000 people are worshipping every sunday and having bible study every wednesday evenings.

The survey also shows that despite recent immigration, most of the growth has come from roman catholics disillusioned with their Roman Church.

Where most Roman Catholics in Ireland are not attending church today, nonetheless, they kept an interest in spirit matters and this often led to coming into contact with friends or colleagues who are attending prayer meetings at evangelical groups.

The other main reason was that the mainstream churches were in decline and evangelicalism was growing, is because evangelicals emphasise ''a commitment to a message and a way of life based on Jesus, and not on an institution.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:55 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: The number of evangelical Christians in Ireland has grown by a massive 1,000pc.

''a commitment to a message and a way of life based on Jesus, and not on an institution.

That is the key. A personal RELATIONSHIP with God and a commitment to him because of his commitment to me is what it is all about.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:11 pm

[QUOTE=TW2005][QUOTE=capt_buzzard]The number of evangelical Christians in Ireland has grown by a massive 1,000pc.

Better get the hell outta there capt!Now why would I wanna do that?

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:26 pm

[QUOTE=TW2005]Because when you get to 5,000 posts in a few minutes, they will be flocking after you calling you "god"

But atleast it's Ireland that had the Christian problems and not my neighborhood.But you Germans all started it,way way back with a guy called Martin Luther:-5

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:04 am

TW2005 wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by saying that "you all Germans...." I told you in a PM that I am not German. I am fluent in the German language along with 4 others. I also told you that I do not live in Germany, will soon to study abroad, but do not currently live there. So....not sure what you mean? Maybe it's supposed to be one of your "funny" joke posts that I'm just not catching?Sorry TW2005. Its just an Irish thing me' jing. I should have said,it all started in Germany with Martin Luther.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:27 am

In God We Trust by an Irish American.

20,000 worshippers pray every Sunday at churches in Texas, Alabama's most senior judge was dismissed for refusing to remove the Ten Commandments from his court, George Bush is re-elected and returned to the White House with the support of thousands of evangelicals lured to the polls by local laws banning homosexual marriage.

The ministers and priests of the main churches in the United States should not become involved in politics. But should be preaching the word of Jesus Christ.Institutions of the church and state should be separate.

One man from Osborne, Pennsylvania, said ''Our nation was founded on Judaeo-Christian policies and religious leaders have an obligation to speak out on public policy, otherwise they're wimps''.

Pope Benedict XV1 has complained that a growing secularism has left churches empty. It also has reopened the debate among the people as to the many different religions and all professing Jesus Christ.

In the United States of America there are more different religions and even more churches than the rest of the world.

William Ess · Post by **William Ess** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:07 am

capt_buzzard wrote: An Evangelical church with six million members worldwide is planning to build a 10m euro church in County Louth in Southern Ireland.

Over 1,300 worshippers will be able to attend sesions in the church. It is being built by the Irish arm of the Church of God, a religious movement in the US at Cleveland.

The Church which preaches strict adherence to the bible and keeping Sunday holy.

The site will also house a penthouse and a bible teaching school.

www.unison.ie/

What mystifies me is why someone in Cleveland (or indeed anywhere) should want to spend so much money on reinventing the wheel. Adherence to the Bible is a sine qua none of all established churches; the difference being that most are careful not to confuse strict adherence with slavish adherence.

Why keep the Sabbath holy? To do so suggests that behaviour on the other six is unimportant. Best to keep all seven days holy.

If people want to join a church that treats every nuance in the Bible as though it were a direct command from God, why not join the Jehovah Witnesses? Those I know are jolly fine people, very sincere and probably less given to hypocracy than most. On the other hand if you think the Bible is a guide rather than a manual, join one of the established churches: there are plenty to choose from.

Where is the need for a new one?

William Ess · Post by **William Ess** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:13 am

[QUOTE=capt_buzzard]The ministers and priests of the main churches in the United States should not become involved in politics. But should be preaching the word of Jesus Christ.Institutions of the church and state should be separate.

What then do the church leaders do when the actions of the Government cut across the word of God? Sit on the fence, look the other way or, obey their consciences and speak out.

"I come to set father against son, brother against brother".

Anyone can be a Christian when the going is easy.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:12 am

I've had some experience with The Church Of God. When I lived in Italy, I attended services of a Church of God in the American military community. I had doctrinal differences but was never ostracized or condemned in any way or fashion. I was accepted in love and treated as a brother in Christ. Discussions were lively but always respectful and always ended with a hug, a handshake, and a prayer.

William Ess · Post by **William Ess** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:34 am

A hug?

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:18 am

Yep, a hug.

William Ess · Post by **William Ess** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:21 am

Adam Zapple wrote: Yep, a hug.

I've heard of loving one's neighbour but isn't that taking things a bit far..............

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:57 pm

Maybe it's a cultural thing. It is very common to share a hug at church in the US. Hey, footballers do it, why not in church.

William Ess · Post by **William Ess** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:02 pm

Adam Zapple wrote: Maybe it's a cultural thing. It is very common to share a hug at church in the US. Hey, footballers do it, why not in church.

Why? If you embrace a total stranger (sort of thing the French and Russians would do), what do you do to an intimate? Better, I think, to shake hands - always provided one has been introduced first.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:34 pm

I don't personally hug strangers. Some of the more gregarious women will hug other women they may not know but for strangers a handshake and a welcome is enough. Hugs are for the posse. Never been to a friendly church?

William Ess · Post by **William Ess** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:56 pm

Adam Zapple wrote: I don't personally hug strangers. Some of the more gregarious women will hug other women they may not know but for strangers a handshake and a welcome is enough. Hugs are for the posse. Never been to a friendly church?

Perhaps it is my age but the idea of being 'hugged' by a total stranger is not something I warm to. I don't mind the occasional gregarious female giving me a hug but not, I think, in public.

My wife and I were at a service once in one of these horribly progressive churches where halfway through the service we were expected to turn to the person next to us and shake hands. To a total stranger! Fortunately, my wife turned to me, grasped my hand, saying in a voice that she usually reserves for me when I am caught with a cigar between my teeth. "How do you do. Frightful weather for the time of year.........".

It is akin to this modern habit of addressing strangers by their Christian names; a practice that a lot of people of my age find faintly offensive. The Christian name is rather like the French 'tu', only used in the familiar tense.

I occasionally accompany my wife to chapel and I suppose they are friendly enough but since it is all in Welsh, I've barely understood a word of it.

Friendship is not, in my view hugging and addressing strangers in the intimate - friendship is inviting them round to a drink and dinner!

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:50 pm

Pinks! Give Me A Hug, Please!

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:54 pm

Back Atcha!

William Ess · Post by **William Ess** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:40 pm

Lulu2 wrote: Pinks! Give Me A Hug, Please!

Look, I say. I mean, this is a family show. Steady on.

Bronwen · Post by **Bronwen** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:53 am

capt_buzzard wrote: An Evangelical church with six million members worldwide is planning to build a 10m euro church in County Louth in Southern Ireland.

Over 1,300 worshippers will be able to attend sesions in the church. It is being built by the Irish arm of the Church of God, a religious movement in the US at Cleveland.

The Church which preaches strict adherence to the bible and keeping Sunday holy.

The site will also house a penthouse and a bible teaching school.

www.unison.ie/This discussion seems to have gone hopelessly astray, but in any case, I have a few questions.

I got the link to come up but was unable to find this particular story. Maybe it has expired.

In any case, do you mean Cleveland, Ohio, or Cleveland, Tennessee? If the latter, I was under the impression that that was an all-black denom, and when I lived in Knoxville, I had some friends, fine African-American Christians, who were members.

Now, I have heard the expression, 'black Irishman', though I was never quite sure of its meaning, but this interests me, especially the penthouse. One wonders if it will include a Penthouse Pet as standard equipment.

I would welcome any news of further developments.