Why Are Men Trying To Make Abortion Decisions???

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:15 pm

onsekiz wrote: Babies have the right to live. I don't care what ignorant mothers think.

I haven't yet finished reading the rest of these posts for the day, but I have to say this post has me at a high boil. It is only the ignorant mother who can disregard the life her child will lead if she's chosen to keep it here.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:23 pm

onsekiz wrote: Hey, anybody supporting abortion (with no decent reason) is ignorant in my opinion. It's not about being women, or man, or animal, or alien, or G. W. Bush.. That's only my humble opinion, sorry if I hurt you.

I have said it time and time again, but do not apologize for backing up what you say. Where the apology would normally fit in, it simply needs replaced by your reasons. The computer smilies unfortunately do not provide a tone of voice. With any subject really, especially one like this. If an opinion as strong as that one is posted and you reply later by saying "if there's no descent reason" it's often to late because you've already been ambushed by not adding it earlier. lol. I try the best I can, when I'm posting something, or replying to think of it as a conversation. What would that person ask you if you said " I don't believe in abortion". What would you say to that? I don't know, that's how I try to do it anyway. I'm not always that great at it, but I try, and encourage questions if I haven't.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:29 pm

Tigerlily wrote: loads of women of my generation have had teenage pregnancies late 60s early 70s. Sheer carelessness cause the situation, not even ignorance, and at a time when educational opportunities were opening up for girls. I have no problem with that at all. I would have had a problem with a child being born to a child, as I would if my child(16) had a child - because I would have to look after both of them, and I've got other plans.

I more than agree with you on that one, and wish I could shake your hand. Now is the same. I have always thought that the only thing time changes is the style of clothes you wear, and how quickly we can communicate with one another. I went to highschool not long ago and walking through the halls was like avoiding bumper cars. So many were pregnant I swear it scared the hell out of me that If I tripped and ran into someone I'd cause a miscarriage. It's ridiculous now, was then, and as a realist, will be for a long time to come.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:39 pm

Lizard Lips wrote: I don't care what 68% of all women believe. I only speak for myself.

I only brought it up because you said it seems that it was mostly men who were against abortion and only because they want to control women.

Lizard Lips wrote: And as I said, I'm personally against abortion. But because I only speak for myself, I'm politically for choice & with zero restrictions.

Then you are not against abortion.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:40 pm

daBunnyWendy7 wrote: Why Are Men Trying To Make Abortion Decisions???

1.rainingsun 15yr o's "punishment"watermelon,mistake NOT...,IMHO...BABY.PERIOD.END OF STORY .However tiny,STILL a baby she MADE a BABY , NOT a mistake.

2.Accountable Parents,NOT child.CHILD's chance at greatness OR mediocrity DUE to POVerty,Avoid ,masturbation safer.SHE LOVED YOU SO MUCH she knew she couldn't take care of you"agree"LOVE & opportunity to BE anything IS THE HEART of issue"honed in FAST,I just started reading,will comment further but insanity a t airport precludes concise reply of length SPECIALLY since there has been so much discussion on this thread.MY reply is just to th first three.ONE,a baby,real,containing ALL germs of abilities,intelligences,personalities,genetic variables INCLUDING those he/SHE will gift to THEIR PROGENY,EVERTHING they are OR EVER WILL BE is distilled w/in that tiny PERSONand...WORSE she'd endure due to MODERN meds.is stetchmarks upon flesh w/o application of effective self control WHICH WE ALL LERN

Whhoooooooowwwww......slow down there Trigger...keep 'er at a trot for a second. lol. (endearing sarcasm) I found that very difficult to understand what if any, your opinion is. I felt alittle like I was back in Chemistry class taking a formula to mix in my beaker. lol. I haven't finished reading the rest of these for the day yet, so if you came back and wrote again more understandably to me than just disregard me on this one. If not if you could you maybe write that out in complete sentences for me. I thought I was gonna have decode that or something. lol. It's alright though. Made me laugh. Thanks.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:49 pm

LuLu2 wrote: My question would be...what gives anyone else the right to interfere with my zygote?

Because some people believe that "your zygote" is a defenseless, living human being (and I say that w/o judgement to you or any other woman). There is no other reason to oppose abortion.

We have laws protecting sea turtle eggs but not feti or fetuses, whichever you prefer.

weber · Post by **weber** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:02 pm

Adam Zapple wrote: Because some people believe that "your zygote" is a defenseless, living human being (and I say that w/o judgement to you or any other woman). There is no other reason to oppose abortion.

We have laws protecting sea turtle eggs but not feti or fetuses, whichever you prefer.

I am against abortion because if you as a zygote or fetus as you call it had been destroyed, aborted, you wouldn't be here and I think that is an extremely good indication that human life begins with that zygote, at conception. I don't think that "poof" at some point this thing becomes human......I think it is human from the time it is, becomes, conception.

daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:29 pm

Yes,both flora and fauna alike enjoy MORE protection & respect.And,yes,either an entity is human & has HUMAN rights OR "it" is NOT AND NEVER will BE (human).

Author Info: Michelle Queneau Bosworth MS, CGC, The Gale Group Inc., Gale, Detroit, Gale Encyclopedia of Genetic Disorders - Part I, 2002

What do you think of this article? (exerpt...zygote IS NOT "yours"only 50%contribution TO an INDIVIDUAL,new & UNIQUE)

Page: 1 2 Next >

Definition

The zygote is the single cell that is formed when the sperm cell fertilizes the egg cell. The zygote divides multiple times, producing identical copies of itself. The cells produced by the division of the zygote form the developing embryo, fetus, and baby. The zygote is the first step in the formation of a new person.

Description

When the sperm fuses with the egg, a cascade of events begins. Additional sperm are prevented from fertilizingthe egg. The membranes of the egg and sperm combine, producing one single cell. The egg and sperm prepare to fuse their genetic material (DNA/chromosomes). Finally, the genetic material combines to produce the zygote with one complete set of chromosomes.

Most cells in the human body have two pairs of 23 chromosomes, i.e. 46 chromosomes total. One set of 23 chromosomes is inherited from the mother, and the complementary set is inherited from the father. When the egg and sperm are formed, the two sets of chromosomes divide evenly, from 46 to 23 chromsomes to produce eggs and sperm with 23 chromosomes each. This ensures that when the egg and sperm fuse during conception, the original number of chromosomes (46) is restored.

The reduction of each parent cell from 46 to 23 chromosomes ensures that each parent contributes half of his or her genetic material to form the zygote and the offspring shares 50% of his or her genes with each parent. Duplication of the single zygote occurs through a complete division of the single ball of cells. This begins the process of forming the fetus and eventually the baby. The first division produces two identical cells, the second produces four cells, the third produces eight cells, etc. After many cell divisions, the cells begin to specialize and differentiate (form particular tissues and organs).

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:51 pm

I'm going to write this reply with a slightly different approach here and see what comes of it. This will be my overall opinion on this subject of abortion in general.

IF YOUR CHILD IS OLD ENOUGH TO SURVIVE IN A NEONATAL INTESIVE CARE UNIT THEN FOR GOD SAKE USE SOME SENSE AND DON'T SUFFOCATE IT OFF FROM IT'S LIFE LINE AT AN AGE OLD ENOUGH TO CRY WHEN SOMETHING HURTS IT! THAT INFURIATES ME BEYOND ANYTHING ELSE. YOU MAKE THAT DECISION OF ABORTION IMMEDIATELY AT A FEW WEEKS WHEN YOU FIND OUT OR NOT AT ALL PLEASE!

ABOVE EVEN THE FIRST ON MY LIST I MUST SAY THAT VACCINATIONS IS NOT MY ABSOLUTE OPINION FOR A SOLUTION. HOWEVER.....I WOULD FULLY PETITION A LAW TO BAN ANY SEXUAL CONTACT BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE UNTIL THE AGE OF 18. IF YOU SAY "WELL, HOW CAN YOU ENFORCE IT IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT?".....GEE IT'S NOT PERFECT AND IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BOTHER THOSE WHO SMOKE ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES EITHER BUT..... IT DOES HOWEVER GIVE THE RIGHT TO ADMINISTER LEGAL CONSEQUENCES IF IT CAN BE PROVEN IT WAS DONE. SMOKING UNDER AGE IS ILLEGAL BECAUSE YOU CAN GET CANCER, OR ADDICTED TO IT. YOU CAN OVERTIME GET CANCER, AND ADDICTED REGARDLESS. YET H.I.V. AND A.I.D.S. TAKES ONLY THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES FOR YOU TO DROP YOUR TROUSERS (pants, dress, whatever). WHAT WOULD YOU SAY DESERVES MORE SWIFT LEGAL ACTION,.....A CIGARETTE THAT THE KID STILL WON'T KNOW HOW TO INHALE UNTIL HE'S 17 OR 18, OR THE SEX THAT COMES WITH INSTINCT AND NO NEED FOR PRACTICE.

1.) Rape-automatic, no question, should permit abortion.

2. There's no person in this world at any age over 18 with the same concept of life and consequences for themselves, offspring, or others that they had at ages 1-present.

3. There is no CHILD at age 15-14-16 etc. old enough, or experienced enough to honestly say whether they can handle a child or not.

4. It is not my absolute opinion the Birth Control vaccinations should be mandatory.

5. Non-Abortion laws should be made by noone except those in the situation that that particular option would apply. Even if the politician opposed to it is a female. Besides the fact that most political officials, if women, grew up in a time that women were shunned if divorced and wanting to make their life their own, on their own.

6. Views of a person, the mind of a person, will always be the product of their life. I'm not saying if you were raised against abortion then you will be, but the way you are as far as your choices, are always products of your life.

7. Choices such as this, and really as with anything else, cannot ever be properly made unless made by the ones who are directly affected by it. Hence the reason that your consent is required before the doctor takes his blade and cuts you open to remove your organs or things growing on them. If you're dying, but you're awake, the doctor isn't going to wheel you to the operating room if you say no right? He'll lecture you profusely, yes. Even then though, if you want to ly there and die in one piece instead of five, you're entitled to it because you're the one who's to bare it.

READ THIS IF NOTHING ELSE.......(BELOW AT #8)

8. FOR THOSE OPPOSED TO CONTROL OF CHILD PREGNANCY IN THEIR CHILDREN BECAUSE "IT'S NOT YOUR PLACE", .................... IF YOUR CHILD GOES TO THE HOSPITAL, DOESN'T WANT TO BE TREATED..........WHO'S SAY DO THEY TAKE? LAST I CHECKED IT'S NOT EVEN AN OPTION TO TAKE THE CHILD'S (under 18) JUDGEMENT. DO YOU ALSO TELL THE DOCTORS THAT IT IS NOT YOUR PLACE? THE REASON AGE 18 SEEMS TO BE IT'S OWN ENTITY IS BECAUSE THAT IS THE DAY YOUR PLACE IN JUDGEMENT TO DETIRMINE YOUR CHILD'S FUTURE STOPS. THAT'S THE DAY YOU STOP GETTING THE PERMISSION FORMS WITH A BLANK SIGNATURE LINE FOR YOUR CHILDREN'S MMR SHOTS WITH SERIOUS SIDE AFFECTS THAT OCCUR TOO OFTEN TO IGNORE.

THERE IS A CERTAIN SOMETHING I CAME AWARE OF WATCHING THE DISCOVERY HEALTH CHANNEL NOT LONG AGO THAT GIVES ME A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS NOT A PARENT'S PLACE. A TEENAGER LAY IN A COMA NEEDING A BLOOD TRANSFUSION TO LIVE. LIFE OR DEATH, CLEAR CUT...PERIOD......ONE CATCH....THEY ARE JOHOVAH'S WITNESSES. THE FAMILY SAID NO TRANSFUSION. THE LITTLE GIRL DIED. JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT. TO DO THIS WOULD HAVE AT LEAST BROUGHT HER BACK ENOUGH TO SPEAK. THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY. NOW THAT IS OUT OF PLACE DON'T YOU THINK????????

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:54 pm

Adam Zapple wrote: Because some people believe that "your zygote" is a defenseless, living human being (and I say that w/o judgement to you or any other woman). There is no other reason to oppose abortion.

We have laws protecting sea turtle eggs but not feti or fetuses, whichever you prefer.

Unless that sea turtle is going to break into my house, steal my identity, get arrested and sit on Death Row eating my tax dollars.......I'll choose the sea turtles.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:13 pm

daBunnyWendy7 wrote:

Yes,both flora and fauna alike enjoy MORE protection & respect.And,yes,either an entity is human & has HUMAN rights OR "it" is NOT AND NEVER will BE (human).

Author Info: Michelle Queneau Bosworth MS, CGC, The Gale Group Inc., Gale, Detroit, Gale Encyclopedia of Genetic Disorders - Part I, 2002

What do you think of this article? (exerpt...zygote IS NOT "yours"only 50%contribution TO an INDIVIDUAL,new & UNIQUE)

Page: 1 2 Next >

Definition

The zygote is the single cell that is formed when the sperm cell fertilizes the egg cell. The zygote divides multiple times, producing identical copies of itself. The cells produced by the division of the zygote form the developing embryo, fetus, and baby. The zygote is the first step in the formation of a new person.

Description

When the sperm fuses with the egg, a cascade of events begins. Additional sperm are prevented from fertilizingthe egg. The membranes of the egg and sperm combine, producing one single cell. The egg and sperm prepare to fuse their genetic material (DNA/chromosomes). Finally, the genetic material combines to produce the zygote with one complete set of chromosomes.

Most cells in the human body have two pairs of 23 chromosomes, i.e. 46 chromosomes total. One set of 23 chromosomes is inherited from the mother, and the complementary set is inherited from the father. When the egg and sperm are formed, the two sets of chromosomes divide evenly, from 46 to 23 chromsomes to produce eggs and sperm with 23 chromosomes each. This ensures that when the egg and sperm fuse during conception, the original number of chromosomes (46) is restored.

The reduction of each parent cell from 46 to 23 chromosomes ensures that each parent contributes half of his or her genetic material to form the zygote and the offspring shares 50% of his or her genes with each parent. Duplication of the single zygote occurs through a complete division of the single ball of cells. This begins the process of forming the fetus and eventually the baby. The first division produces two identical cells, the second produces four cells, the third produces eight cells, etc. After many cell divisions, the cells begin to specialize and differentiate (form particular tissues and organs).

The problem with the contraversy over abortion is that it's deemed controversial by those who will never have to, or never had to, for the most part anyway, make those kinds of decisions. It is not right to make decisions for someone fully able to make their own as they're leaving the room. The United States of America as a whole are not children that the government can tell to go to their room while mommy and daddy think of their punishment. That's what this problem with abortion feels like. Along with my pro choice opinion I do believe however that the types of abortions and how they do it should be restricted......some are horrifying to even hear about....those are the ones that make it terrible. You can't just go and have an abortion when your five months along like some do and tie off the the oxygen and suffocate it. Those are the ones I swear those who perform it need to have it done back to them. How horrifying. If you're a few weeks, 6, 8, when you first realize you are. If you do it, do it then. Don't have an abortion with a child almost old enough to survive in Neonatal Intensive Care unit. Use some sense.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:22 pm

to end this for this evening any how, i will say that the one thing needing to be understood by all is that unless you stand in one's shoes, your understanding enough to make decisions for them is less than zilch. The next time you go somewhere think of what goes on behind the scenes, behind the counters, behind the doors. It's like people who think that those who marry should stay married until death no matter what. If that was the case then homicides in this country would triple i'm sure. You don't know what circumstances ly in that marriage. It's like those opposing immigration and wanting all hispanics to return to Mexico. People forget that Mexicans themselves would also love to be able to return to their own country if it supplied them with enough to sustain their families. THEY DON'T WANT TO LIVE HERE EITHER! THEY WANT TO GO HOME AS MUCH AS OTHERS WANT THEM TO! People seem to forget things like that.

daBunnyWendy7 · Post by **daBunnyWendy7** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:30 pm

Not being allowed (OR atleast applauded for exercising"freedom") to kill another human being IS NOT a punishment.

IF you were FORCED to raise an unwanted child,THAT might ,however be,of course.

As I suggested,even the pain of childbirth can be avoided AND I think AS a nationfooting the bill for easing "YOUR burden" that comes as a NATURAL foregone consequence IS something I would approve,personally.My motivating factors ARE NOT spitefulness NOR operatic drama-seeking posings.JUST a deep gutlevel DISGUST for violence and inflicting PAIN (studies show,YES babies FEEL it in the womb).

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:42 pm

daBunnyWendy7 wrote: Not being allowed (OR atleast applauded for exercising"freedom") to kill another human being IS NOT a punishment.

IF you were FORCED to raise an unwanted child,THAT might ,however be,of course.

As I suggested,even the pain of childbirth can be avoided AND I think AS a nationfooting the bill for easing "YOUR burden" that comes as a NATURAL foregone consequence IS something I would approve,personally.My motivating factors ARE NOT spitefulness NOR operatic drama-seeking posings.JUST a deep gutlevel DISGUST for violence and inflicting PAIN (studies show,YES babies FEEL it in the womb).

I MYSELF HAVE STATED THAT BABIES FEEL IN THE WOMB AND ONCE IT IS TO THE POINT THAT THEY CAN WHICH IS VERY VERY EARLY, ABORTION, PERSONALLY DISGUSTS ME AS WELL. BUT YOU CAN NOT JUDGE NOT KNOWING THE CIRCUMSTANCES. IT IS, I'M SURE, EASY FOR PEOPLE TO SAY, DON'T ABORT, GIVE IT UP FOR ADOPTION AND IT'LL HAVE A NICE HOME AND A BETTER LIFE. YEAH....IF IT LIVES IN BOSNIA SOMEONE WILL ADOPT IT RIGHT AWAY, NOT HERE. CHILDREN HERE LIVE IN ORPHANAGES ON AVERAGE TIL PRE TEENS, AND IF THEY'RE ADOPTED RIGHT FROM BIRTH YOU EXPLAIN TO YOUR CHILD OH HONEY SORRY YOU'RE NOT KEEPING IT YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT SO JUST GIVE HER TO MRS. WHATEVER STANDING THERE AND WE'LL HEAD HOME ONCE SHE'S GIVEN US OUR CHECK FOR THE DOCTOR BILLS. NO....THAT'S NOT PUNISHMENT EITHER...:-5

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:46 pm

rainingsun wrote: Unless that sea turtle is going to break into my house, steal my identity, get arrested and sit on Death Row eating my tax dollars.......I'll choose the sea turtles.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:51 pm

rainingsun wrote: The problem with the contraversy over abortion is that it's deemed controversial by those who will never have to, or never had to, for the most part anyway, make those kinds of decisions.

I'm sorry rainingsun, no offense, but comments like these are made all the time but have no basis in reality. They are just talking points bandied around by the pro-choice side. There are plenty of people, including yours truly, who have been in those situations and remain committed to pro-life principles.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:44 pm

Twice AZ has asked the question of whether or not I would "let" a 12 year old keep her baby. Yes I would. Flame away. Accountable thinks my comment that once pregnant, childhood stops, is stupid. No it isn't. Having never been pregnant I can see why you would think that. Were our great grandmothers who were pregnant at 13 and 14 still children back then? The culture may be different but that is all. I am fully aware that it would be me as the grandmother to take care of said child alongside my 12 year old but that would be my business and no one else's if I and my daughter chose that route.

The idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're going to keep a potential baby is highhorsed and unapplicable to human nature. It is idealist which is why it doesn't work.

I think I've said all I can say about my position on this issue while remaining polite; it seems the conversation is not bringing up anything new, but a bunch of preaching and I don't respond to preaching so I shall at this point move on. Thanks for the discussion.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:48 pm

"The idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're going to keep a potential baby is highhorsed and unapplicable to human nature. It is idealist which is why it doesn't work."

++++++++++++++ YUP! It's almost PUNITIVE, isn't it? "So, you used birth control conscientiously and it failed you? Well, TOUGH STUFF, LIL' LADY! Now you have to be a mother, like it or not. YOU WANTED TO PLAY? WELL, NOW YOU GOTTA' PAY!"

I can fully accept and support someone who chooses to continue a pregnancy, any pregnancy. It's HER business! What I cannot accept is someone who attempts to insert themself into MY business because they "believe" my zygote is as important as an adult, sentient human being.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:42 pm

RedGlitter wrote: Twice AZ has asked the question of whether or not I would "let" a 12 year old keep her baby. Yes I would. Flame away.

I don't think that was me.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:22 am

Adam Zapple wrote: I'm sorry rainingsun, no offense, but comments like these are made all the time but have no basis in reality. They are just talking points bandied around by the pro-choice side. There are plenty of people, including yours truly, who have been in those situations and remain committed to pro-life principles.

ONE, I'm speaking of political officials that are making those decisions that have never stood in the shoes of the one's it's affected. TWO the whole point in protesting something so that the world can hear about it is to bring it up. There are few things that I will post knowing strong response will follow that I know nothing about from experience. This though, is also for me, not one of them. I mentioned in a previous post that seems to fit here as. We are all products of life experience. Each of us choose to become a different product, not always walking the path we started on. I'm a fairly opinionated woman. I've learned it is important at times to pick a side...even if that side is your own. Very rarely do I mention portions of my personal life if it has been any sort of inspiration for a posted opinion of any kind. It's fascinating sometimes at how differently one can bring up a subject and dive into other's perspectives of it, listening to them speak freely of their true feelings and opinions while they have no assumption what so ever the other could very well be some sort of product of a situation similar to it. It's pure, untanted thoughts, opinions, whatever. They're not choosing what they say. Make no assumptions on whether I've had an abortion or are speaking of a political,....

or medical nature. I know enough to make me laugh when someone says or implies that I don't know what I'm talking about. On that note, I don't have a clue why I'm sitting here at 3:18 in the morning. I've gotta be up in an hour what am i thinking....I'll be back to read more later on.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:51 am

RedGlitter wrote: Twice AZ has asked the question of whether or not I would "let" a 12 year old keep her baby. Yes I would. Flame away. Accountable thinks my comment that once pregnant, childhood stops, is stupid. No it isn't. Having never been pregnant I can see why you would think that. Were our great grandmothers who were pregnant at 13 and 14 still children back then? The culture may be different but that is all. I am fully aware that it would be me as the grandmother to take care of said child alongside my 12 year old but that would be my business and no one else's if I and my daughter chose that route.

The idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're going to keep a potential baby is highhorsed and unapplicable to human nature. It is idealist which is why it doesn't work.

I think I've said all I can say about my position on this issue while remaining polite; it seems the conversation is not bringing up anything new, but a bunch of preaching and I don't respond to preaching so I shall at this point move on. Thanks for the discussion.

YOU DON'T THINK CHILDREN ARE STILL CHILDREN WHEN THEY GET PREGNANT? DID I INTERPRET THAT CORRECTLY. YOU MENTIONED OUR GRANDPARENTS NOT BEING CHILDREN AT 13,14 YEARS OF AGE WHEN THEY GOT PREGNANT.................................................................................................................................................................WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK IT'S SUCH A BIG DEAL NOW!!!!!!!! BECAUSE.........EVERYONE...........IS.............NOW........ACCEPTING.........THAT...GIRLS...ARE...JUST...AS....QUALIFIED..TO..PASS...THE...8TH GRADE.....AS...THE...BOYS. AND WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT...........BECAUSE....THEY ....ARE CHILDREN!!!!!!!! I'M NOT SURE WHEN THE LAST TIME YOU'VE SEEN A SCAN OF THE BRAIN FROM A 12 YEAR OLD AND A 12 YEAR OLD PREGNANT GIRL.......BUT IT MIGHT SURPRISE YOU TO KNOW THEY ....LOOK....JUST....A LIKE.....

I THINK YOU WANT TO MOVE ON BECAUSE THE PREACHING STARTED FROM YOUR TELLING OTHERS THAT THEY WERE WRONG, AND PATRONIZING THEM FOR IT. I RARELY TALK THIS WAY, BUT WHEN YOU START TELLING ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD DO IN A SITUATION INSTEAD OF JUST GIVING YOUR OPINION ON THE TOPIC AS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT, AND APPROACHING OTHERS HERE THAT THEY SHOULD DO THE SAME.....YOU LEFT YOURSELF OPEN FOR THE PREACHING. JUST TO MAKE MYSELF FEEL BETTER I'LL SAY ONE MORE THING...........HAVING A CHILD IS LIFE OR DEATH, AND IF FOR YOUR OWN PRINCIPLES, AS YOU SAY, YOU'D HAVE YOUR 12 YEAR OLD CONTINUE ON TO BIRTH, SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG WITH YOU. IMAGINE YOUR LITTLE 12 YEAR OLD BODY BEING RAVAGED BY SOMETHING THAT TRAUMATIC. WOW. I WOULDN'T TELL THAT TO TOO MANY PEOPLE. I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT HAVE SAID THAT ALL OVER THE INTERNET. THERE.....NOW I FEEL BETTER............................................

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:02 am

Lulu2 wrote: "The idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're going to keep a potential baby is highhorsed and unapplicable to human nature. It is idealist which is why it doesn't work."

++++++++++++++ YUP! It's almost PUNITIVE, isn't it? "So, you used birth control conscientiously and it failed you? Well, TOUGH STUFF, LIL' LADY! Now you have to be a mother, like it or not. YOU WANTED TO PLAY? WELL, NOW YOU GOTTA' PAY!"

I can fully accept and support someone who chooses to continue a pregnancy, any pregnancy. It's HER business! What I cannot accept is someone who attempts to insert themself into MY business because they "believe" my zygote is as important as an adult, sentient human being.

A TWELVE YEAR OLD IS PUNISHED BY GROUNDING, NOT HEY, YOU WANTED TO PLAY, NOW PLAY. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE. WELL, MAYBE MCDONALD'S HAS A GOOD RETIREMENT PLAN......OH WAIT, SHE WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A JOB IS TO GET ONE.....THAT'S RIGHT...12YR. OLD.....THAT'S ABOUT THE 6TH GRADE RIGHT? AT 12 SHE'S STILL BEING PUNISHED AT SCHOOL BY STAYING IN AT RECESS. I HOPE YOU DON'T WORK FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, IF YOU DO THEN I GUESS WE FOUND THE KINK.

I'M IN RARE FORM THIS EVENING, AND ALL OF THIS NON SENSE HAS INSPIRED A NEW TOPIC I'LL BEGIN TOMORROW I THINK.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:20 am

Rainingsun, you took LuLu the wrong way. Go back and reread.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:16 am

RedGlitter wrote: Twice AZ has asked the question of whether or not I would "let" a 12 year old keep her baby. Yes I would. Flame away. Accountable thinks my comment that once pregnant, childhood stops, is stupid. No it isn't. Having never been pregnant I can see why you would think that. Were our great grandmothers who were pregnant at 13 and 14 still children back then? The culture may be different but that is all. I am fully aware that it would be me as the grandmother to take care of said child alongside my 12 year old but that would be my business and no one else's if I and my daughter chose that route.

The idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're going to keep a potential baby is highhorsed and unapplicable to human nature. It is idealist which is why it doesn't work.

I think I've said all I can say about my position on this issue while remaining polite; it seems the conversation is not bringing up anything new, but a bunch of preaching and I don't respond to preaching so I shall at this point move on. Thanks for the discussion.

I respect you more than you know. I think you're equating responsibility to maturity. Responsibility forces one to 'grow up' etc. While I agree with you there, responsibility certainly doesn't give one the maturity to make adult decisions.

As for your idealist remark - idealism doesn't work only because people say 'idealism doesn't work' and give up trying. If we don't raise our standards - set large challenges - we can't improve. The ideal is a worthy goal. Avoiding sex until you're ready to be a parent is the ideal; I agree with you there. Sex is an activity one chooses to do (rape notably excepted). It's not an involuntary, automatic response. It is an ideal worth going for.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:52 am

Personally, I'd appreciate it if everybody'd take a deep breath, take off the caps lock, and use Verdana 2 instead of Some fancy cursive that's hard to read.

Sorry for the sidetrack.

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:00 am

RedGlitter wrote: Twice AZ has asked the question of whether or not I would "let" a 12 year old keep her baby. Yes I would. Flame away. Accountable thinks my comment that once pregnant, childhood stops, is stupid. No it isn't. Having never been pregnant I can see why you would think that. Were our great grandmothers who were pregnant at 13 and 14 still children back then? The culture may be different but that is all. I am fully aware that it would be me as the grandmother to take care of said child alongside my 12 year old but that would be my business and no one else's if I and my daughter chose that route.

The idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're going to keep a potential baby is highhorsed and unapplicable to human nature. It is idealist which is why it doesn't work.

I think I've said all I can say about my position on this issue while remaining polite; it seems the conversation is not bringing up anything new, but a bunch of preaching and I don't respond to preaching so I shall at this point move on. Thanks for the discussion.

I would say that childhool stops when these children have sex because they know they will just get aborted if they get pregnant. Anybody old enough to have sex is old enough to shoulder the responsibility of the consequences, that being pregnancy and a child. Why would anybody bother thinking about morals if the bandaid is always there.

Sorry, I am for people, responsible people.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:46 pm

miriam wrote: I would say that childhool stops when these children have sex because they know they will just get aborted if they get pregnant. Anybody old enough to have sex is old enough to shoulder the responsibility of the consequences, that being pregnancy and a child. Why would anybody bother thinking about morals if the bandaid is always there.

Sorry, I am for people, responsible people.Are you aware that some girls can get pregnant as young as 10? Kids make all kinds of stupid decisions without being able to fathom the consequences.

Lizard Lips · Post by **Lizard Lips** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:41 pm

RedGlitter wrote: Were our great grandmothers who were pregnant at 13 and 14 still children back then?

I don't know who you mean by "our" but my great-grandparents were certainly older than 13 or 14 when they had children.

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:36 pm

Accountable wrote: Are you aware that some girls can get pregnant as young as 10? Kids make all kinds of stupid decisions without being able to fathom the consequences.

I don't know Acccountable

How many kids get pregnant at age 10, and I would certainly allow that that is a circumstance where abortion would be considered a good thing. And kids at age 10 probably do know the consequences. They know everything else. Kids under 10, even 6 and 7 know, are told, things that I didn't know until I was married.

It is a subject that a persons full beliefs can't be put in a short post and I don't like long drawn out posts that are hard to understand, so I guess that lets me out of these conversations.

There are circulstances where abortion is (for a better word) necessary. I said that in another post. I don't believe in black and white except for the 10 Commandments. And the above borders on them depending on what a person believes.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:58 pm

miriam wrote: I don't know Acccountable

How many kids get pregnant at age 10, and I would certainly allow that that is a circumstance where abortion would be considered a good thing.

Its so good. Thats the word I would use. Sarcasm at its best of course.

miriam wrote:

And kids at age 10 probably do know the consequences. They know everything else. Kids under 10, even 6 and 7 know, are told, things that I didn't know until I was married.

No. They dont know. They HEAR it, but do they really KNOW what the consequences are? No, they read about them, they hear them in the news, in passing from their parnets, but do they really KNOW and UNDERSTAND at 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10....I DOUBT IT!

miriam wrote:

It is a subject that a persons full beliefs can't be put in a short post and I don't like long drawn out posts that are hard to understand, so I guess that lets me out of these conversations.

Thats a total cop-out to this debate/conversation. POst away if you are going to join the discussion, otherwise, dont even post at all...

miriam wrote:

There are circulstances where abortion is (for a better word) necessary. I said that in another post. I don't believe in black and white except for the 10 Commandments. And the above borders on them depending on what a person believes.

What did you say in another post? You said yorself you dont like drawn out posts, so if you wouldnt mind, please paraphrase for us that are lazy here as well. I would, for one. like to know where its necessary and not. Just for a topic of debate. Thanks.

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:51 pm

DesignerGal wrote: What did you say in another post? You said yorself you dont like drawn out posts, so if you wouldnt mind, please paraphrase for us that are lazy here as well. I would, for one. like to know where its necessary and not. Just for a topic of debate. Thanks.

I'm sorry. I don't really understand what you want. When I think about it, I can't figure out what I said that was so terrible as to elicit your response. If you want to know what I think...........

I think abortion is wrong. I think it is killing a human being at it's smallest beginnings.

Actually I suppose I should say that I think abortion on demand is wrong, demand meaning any old reason at all is good enough.

I think if a woman is raped or if her life is threatened, and I don't know but that there are other circumstances where abortion should be up to the woman.

I didn't include the 10 year old because I have never heard of it but I would think it would certainly not be good for a 10 year old girl to have a baby.

Actually, I suppose I shouldn't even say what I think because I have never been faced with a decision on abortion. It is healthier in hospitals than in back street offices where women die. Unfortunately, no matter how good abortion on demand is for women.....without malice of any kind, I still believe that abortion is killing human life at its earliest beginnings. And perhaps it boils down to who is more important........the mother or the new life and the new life doesn't know the difference perhaps. I don't know.......I've never been there.

So you can pretend that you never read this post.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:22 pm

miriam wrote: I would say that childhool stops when these children have sex because they know they will just get aborted if they get pregnant. Anybody old enough to have sex is old enough to shoulder the responsibility of the consequences, that being pregnancy and a child. Why would anybody bother thinking about morals if the bandaid is always there.

Sorry, I am for people, responsible people.

Something like getting pregnant, regardless of something of this scale, still does not change the mental capacity to handle it, and does not make you an adult. If it did, it certainly would not be a problem. As far as bandaids. That is all in the eye of the beholder because if that is your theory than second chances, test retakes, divorces, bankruptcy, law suit settlements and spell check should also not exist because it offers a chance at redemption. Just for the record, responsibility comes with age and experience, not one without the other. Responsibility is followed by action, not action followed by responsibility. It starts by knowing what responsibility is first, then realizing how to apply it after the action. If you are too young to know what it is, and the action occurs where it would apply, the effect is in reverse.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:31 pm

Adam Zapple wrote: Rainingsun, you took LuLu the wrong way. Go back and reread.

I'm aware of what it meant, i know what I read, the interpretation and opinion I have of it are my entitlement, and I meant what I said.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:42 pm

miriam wrote: I don't know Acccountable

How many kids get pregnant at age 10, and I would certainly allow that that is a circumstance where abortion would be considered a good thing. And kids at age 10 probably do know the consequences. They know everything else. Kids under 10, even 6 and 7 know, are told, things that I didn't know until I was married.

It is a subject that a persons full beliefs can't be put in a short post and I don't like long drawn out posts that are hard to understand, so I guess that lets me out of these conversations.

There are circulstances where abortion is (for a better word) necessary. I said that in another post. I don't believe in black and white except for the 10 Commandments. And the above borders on them depending on what a person believes.

This would be an instance I've run into time and time again, and I find it neccessary to say that jumping into a subject such as this, deems it a good idea to disclose things like you think it's acceptable to abort in circumstances such as a 10yr. old. I to think many abuse the abortion option. It frustrates me to no end that it takes away from the others it would truly benefit. It's not meant for birth control and if birth control is what they're looking for then condoms are sold everywhere, and birth control is 10 bucks at planned parenthood. Now if you live with your parents, are 17 or last part of 16, the solution is yes, discussing options such as abortion, adoption, but on a case by case basis, may benefit if family is willing to assist and support through a time where growing up may just have to be a part of well.......growing up.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:48 pm

miriam wrote: I'm sorry. I don't really understand what you want. When I think about it, I can't figure out what I said that was so terrible as to elicit your response. If you want to know what I think...........

I think abortion is wrong. I think it is killing a human being at it's smallest beginnings.

Actually I suppose I should say that I think abortion on demand is wrong, demand meaning any old reason at all is good enough.

I think if a woman is raped or if her life is threatened, and I don't know but that there are other circumstances where abortion should be up to the woman.

I didn't include the 10 year old because I have never heard of it but I would think it would certainly not be good for a 10 year old girl to have a baby.

Actually, I suppose I shouldn't even say what I think because I have never been faced with a decision on abortion. It is healthier in hospitals than in back street offices where women die. Unfortunately, no matter how good abortion on demand is for women.....without malice of any kind, I still believe that abortion is killing human life at its earliest beginnings. And perhaps it boils down to who is more important........the mother or the new life and the new life doesn't know the difference perhaps. I don't know.......I've never been there.

So you can pretend that you never read this post.

There's a difference between saying where you stand on the issue of abortion, and what you do in that situation. Your posts have been more on what you think people should do that you view is right, and that's what's made you so offensive. Forums like this don't exist because everyone's opinion is the same. But opinions on an issue are much different than unsolicited advice or instructional opinions.

weber · Post by **weber** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:52 pm

rainingsun wrote: There's a difference between saying where you stand on the issue of abortion, and what you do in that situation. Your posts have been more on what you think people should do that you view is right, and that's what's made you so offensive. Forums like this don't exist because everyone's opinion is the same. But opinions on an issue are much different than unsolicited advice or instructional opinions.

Thank you

I didn't know that. I will remember that

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:20 am

rainingsun wrote: YOU DON'T THINK CHILDREN ARE STILL CHILDREN WHEN THEY GET PREGNANT? DID I INTERPRET THAT CORRECTLY. YOU MENTIONED OUR GRANDPARENTS NOT BEING CHILDREN AT 13,14 YEARS OF AGE WHEN THEY GOT PREGNANT.................................................................................................................................................................WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK IT'S SUCH A BIG DEAL NOW!!!!!!!! BECAUSE.........EVERYONE...........IS.............NOW........ACCEPTING.........THAT...GIRLS...ARE...JUST...AS....QUALIFIED..TO..PASS...THE...8TH GRADE.....AS...THE...BOYS. AND WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT...........BECAUSE....THEY ....ARE CHILDREN!!!!!!!! I'M NOT SURE WHEN THE LAST TIME YOU'VE SEEN A SCAN OF THE BRAIN FROM A 12 YEAR OLD AND A 12 YEAR OLD PREGNANT GIRL.......BUT IT MIGHT SURPRISE YOU TO KNOW THEY ....LOOK....JUST....A LIKE.....

I THINK YOU WANT TO MOVE ON BECAUSE THE PREACHING STARTED FROM YOUR TELLING OTHERS THAT THEY WERE WRONG, AND PATRONIZING THEM FOR IT. I RARELY TALK THIS WAY, BUT WHEN YOU START TELLING ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD DO IN A SITUATION INSTEAD OF JUST GIVING YOUR OPINION ON THE TOPIC AS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT, AND APPROACHING OTHERS HERE THAT THEY SHOULD DO THE SAME.....YOU LEFT YOURSELF OPEN FOR THE PREACHING. JUST TO MAKE MYSELF FEEL BETTER I'LL SAY ONE MORE THING...........HAVING A CHILD IS LIFE OR DEATH, AND IF FOR YOUR OWN PRINCIPLES, AS YOU SAY, YOU'D HAVE YOUR 12 YEAR OLD CONTINUE ON TO BIRTH, SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG WITH YOU. IMAGINE YOUR LITTLE 12 YEAR OLD BODY BEING RAVAGED BY SOMETHING THAT TRAUMATIC. WOW. I WOULDN'T TELL THAT TO TOO MANY PEOPLE. I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT HAVE SAID THAT ALL OVER THE INTERNET. THERE.....NOW I FEEL BETTER............................................

RainingSun, you are the one always blabbing about how you enjoy EVERYONE'S input regardless of what they say so get over it. I have noticed your tone the last few days with people and I find you really offensive. I don't care if you like my opinion or what I have to say or if you don't, but if you can't keep a grip on yourself when someone says something you don't cotton to, then what the hell are you doing in this forum? I don't like to be discourteous to people even when I disagree but as you keep preaching, all opinions make the world go around and this IS a forum for all opinions- not just the ones you like and certainly not just yours! No, there is nothing wrong with me, and no you did not interpret what I said correctly- you just went off on it regardless. Now knock off your crappy attitude so we can all have a decent discussion.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:33 am

miriam wrote: Thank you

I didn't know that. I will remember that

Don't worry about it, Miriam. You haven't been offensive. And you're entitled to your opinions.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:35 am

I just love strong women. :yh_flower

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:15 am

I just wanted to debate the topic and we have someone saying Im mean and offended and running off stomping their feet and slamming the door. Ok. *I* will remember that.

weber · Post by **weber** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:32 am

RedGlitter wrote: Don't worry about it, Miriam. You haven't been offensive. And you're entitled to your opinions.

Thanks RedGlitter

It's good to know that at least one person other than me thinks I did nothing wrong. I believe I will wait a bit before I say any more.....I'll find the right wording.:yh_sweat

Tigerlily · Post by **Tigerlily** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:04 am

Still can't understand why people get offended on message boards. I offer the opinion I do because I'm a practical sort of person and I know what I'd do if I got pregnant myself - and there are two ends of the spectrum when it comes to inappropriate pregnancy. I would not want to bear another child to term.

I am a healthy woman with responsibilities which are real. The added responsibility of a baby, and there is no guarantee that it would be sound in wind and limb, would be too much.

To be told by someone that I'm effectively a murderess for doing this because the foetus is living is really peachy. Particularly when that person is tearful and offended and misunderstood and holier-than-thou because someone else disagrees with them. Which is what the anti-abortion lot do.

Life throws all sorts of things at people, who generally speaking deal with them the best way they can, in the best interests of those around them. Abortion is a solution to a problem, if a pregnancy is perceived as a problem. It should be available to those who need a solution without do-gooders passing judgement. Because if it's not, desperate girls and women will die.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:28 am

Exactly! It all comes down to choice, doesn't it? It's really galling when someone calls you irresponsible for terminating a pregnancy you sincerely and carefully tried to avoid by using birth control.

weber · Post by **weber** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:33 am

Tigerlily wrote: Still can't understand why people get offended on message boards. I offer the opinion I do because I'm a practical sort of person and I know what I'd do if I got pregnant myself - and there are two ends of the spectrum when it comes to inappropriate pregnancy. I would not want to bear another child to term.

I am a healthy woman with responsibilities which are real. The added responsibility of a baby, and there is no guarantee that it would be sound in wind and limb, would be too much.

To be told by someone that I'm effectively a murderess for doing this because the foetus is living is really peachy. Particularly when that person is tearful and offended and misunderstood and holier-than-thou because someone else disagrees with them. Which is what the anti-abortion lot do.

Life throws all sorts of things at people, who generally speaking deal with them the best way they can, in the best interests of those around them. Abortion is a solution to a problem, if a pregnancy is perceived as a problem. It should be available to those who need a solution without do-gooders passing judgement. Because if it's not, desperate girls and women will die.

I once was told that the baby in the womb was nothing more than a parasite, a leech, a bloodsucker. I think those words are about in the same ballpark with someone calling you a murdress, I mean as in equally horrid. I would not, and and I don't think anybody else would call you a murdress if you did that. I feel bad for women who have abortions, regardless of my opinions. I don't think it is an easy choice to make and I don't think it is an easy thing to go through. And I certainly would not want to make it any more difficult for any woman.

It is the extremes that I find difficult....the name calling on either side or the not taking time to really hear what the other person is saying(and I admit that I am bilty of that). Or the black and white statements with no flexibility at all. The extremes are the hurtful stuff that drive us on sometimes

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:22 pm

RedGlitter wrote: RainingSun, you are the one always blabbing about how you enjoy EVERYONE'S input regardless of what they say so get over it. I have noticed your tone the last few days with people and I find you really offensive. I don't care if you like my opinion or what I have to say or if you don't, but if you can't keep a grip on yourself when someone says something you don't cotton to, then what the hell are you doing in this forum? I don't like to be discourteous to people even when I disagree but as you keep preaching, all opinions make the world go around and this IS a forum for all opinions- not just the ones you like and certainly not just yours! No, there is nothing wrong with me, and no you did not interpret what I said correctly- you just went off on it regardless. Now knock off your crappy attitude so we can all have a decent discussion.

My crappy attitude is only towards those who seem offended when their unsolicited advice isn't taken well by the rest on this thread of the forum. As far as being a part of this forum I believe this particular thread was created by me, so if you don't ...how did you say...."cotton to it?" then I suggest it is you that find a thread where you can be constructive with the type of interaction that you prefer. I will not have it misunderstood, if at all possible, that I do not enjoy the feedback, reading and interaction. That's why I take so much pride in defending it so that others can come in here who truly want to say whether they agree or disagree with abortion without feeling like they're "baby killlers'' if they agree, or "women haters and macho" if they don't. It's very important that in subjects like this opinions are kept as un evasive as possible for it to be welcoming to as many as possible. Those who take a more evasive approach, in MY PARTICULAR THREADS, are the ones I will take the time defend for it to be constructive and welcoming. Forums like this are welcome to new topics being started at any time that you wish. This is my topic, this is what I think, this is why I put it here. There's nothing WRONG with you feeling the way that you do, but for you to be as constructive with it as possible, you may want to also begin a topic of your own and see where it goes as well. Sincerely, APRIL

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:07 pm

Listen, April, I've been here much longer than you and I'm not going anywhere. You are welcome to start any thread you wish but you had better be prepared and willing to read replies you may not like. I don't tell people what they should do nor have I so you must have pulled that one out of thin air. I do know I have seen you insult several of our members here in the short time you've been here and that is not cool. In case you've been too busy pitching your witch to notice, this forum is full of nice, mature people from all walks of life who like to discuss issues. You'll notice we don't always agree but we don't go out of our way to tear each other down either. You won't last long here or ingratiate yourself with us if you keep being rude and hostile to us. I don't care *whose* thread it is. That said, I'm off to talk with people I can respect and quite frankly, that isn't you. So let's both use that handy IGNORE button and we'll both be the better for it.

Red.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:28 pm

RedGlitter wrote: Listen, April, I've been here much longer than you and I'm not going anywhere. You are welcome to start any thread you wish but you had better be prepared and willing to read replies you may not like. I don't tell people what they should do nor have I so you must have pulled that one out of thin air. I do know I have seen you insult several of our members here in the short time you've been here and that is not cool. In case you've been too busy pitching your witch to notice, this forum is full of nice, mature people from all walks of life who like to discuss issues. You'll notice we don't always agree but we don't go out of our way to tear each other down either. You won't last long here or ingratiate yourself with us if you keep being rude and hostile to us. I don't care *whose* thread it is. That said, I'm off to talk with people I can respect and quite frankly, that isn't you. So let's both use that handy IGNORE button and we'll both be the better for it.

Red.

Oh for goodness sake. (stomping my foot) We'll draw a line, you take one side and I'll take this one....lol. I didn't say leave the forum. I said if it's something you feel strongly about than start a new topic. Sorry but rank only works in the military and you sound like how I talked to my baby sister about 10 years ago. You seem to enjoy the disagreement hence your still sticking around this TOPIC (not forum), and quite frankly I have empathy towards your older bossy sister role because well, .....about a decade ago I did that to my own sister. I'd be in denial if I said this disagreement doesn't affect me, but I'd also be in denial if I said it bothered me. Noone needs to feel like a bad person for their opinion on the issue as well as it needing to be just the opinion of the issue itself. I would not feel right not having a problem with someone making others that I invited to yeah or Nah abortion feel bad or that they should take someone's unsolicited advise. I will not hit the ignore button because it's how I feel. I also have read through this as it increases in replies and the more I offend you, the more flaky niceness you seem to spread to more people. If you've been on this forum longer than I have you should allow me to introduce to you a different kind of person that you obviously haven't noticed you've encountered...........a real one.

If someone wants to come in here and say " I don't like abortion" they should be able to do so without someone antagonizing them on a personal level. Also with those who agree with abortion or pro choice. If someone wants to start the personal blows, then I will say something, and I'll say it loud enough that I'm satisfied the other side of the planet has heard me say it. Face to face, yeah ...I'd walk away. I don't see any words jumping off the screen though so unless voodoo really works, my feet aren't budging. One last thing, ......for now. You said "if you're hostile to us you won't last long here." Don't hide behind everyone else. Don't drag a mob out over something you can't stand to take alone. I'm not discussing a congregation so I'm sorry you may not like it, but this is to you. You may have some volunteers to pad your fall, but It's not my back you're breakin'.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:39 pm

I sub in the high school in a small town where 60% are Native American, 30% are Hispanic and 10% are White. The very best birth control I have seen are the girls that get pregnant in High School. NONE of the other girls want to go their way. In this town of minorities .............there is only a 1% pregnancy rate for the girls. The boys get very active too.......lots of condoms. Lots of abstinance.

rainingsun · Post by **rainingsun** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:48 pm

nvalleyvee wrote: I sub in the high school in a small town where 60% are Native American, 30% are Hispanic and 10% are White. The very best birth control I have seen are the girls that get pregnant in High School. NONE of the other girls want to go their way. In this town of minorities .............there is only a 1% pregnancy rate for the girls. The boys get very active too.......lots of condoms. Lots of abstinance.

That's amazing. Most of my family (grandma, grandpas, etc) are native american, and a long time ago she said to me that if you learn to appreciate, and utilize what your surroundings provide for you, you'll learn how you can benefit your surroundings and give balance to your life. Native Americans, hispanics, and other cultures like that have a stronger family unit for the most part don't they? Do you think that's made the biggest difference? The family support?

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:58 pm

rainingsun wrote: That's amazing. Most of my family (grandma, grandpas, etc) are native american, and a long time ago she said to me that if you learn to appreciate, and utilize what your surroundings provide for you, you'll learn how you can benefit your surroundings and give balance to your life. Native Americans, hispanics, and other cultures like that have a stronger family unit for the most part don't they? Do you think that's made the biggest difference? The family support?

Absolutely, I agree. I have subbed in predominatly white schools and at this HS there have only been 5 or 6 infants per year out of a population of 900 students.........go figure. I think you are right.

I think the big popuation of Native Americans has made the most difference. I want to say something else too. The 2 or 3 NA girls who get pregnant in their soph or jr years are the girls who always make it to college after their senior year. THAT IS the family support.