any ideas

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Help - ive made a rod for my own back .My dog Jake absolutely detests going to the vet, he turns into a devil dog,snarling growling .The last time he needed to go for a jab it took my old man and 4 other people to hold him against the wall just to give him an small injection . The problem i have is my dog is now 7 1/2 (quite old for a Rottie ) and he weighs about 11 stone and has delveloped fat lumps, we hate taking him to vet because of the stress and to be honest its quite pointless because the vet insists on him wearing two muzzles and we both have to hold him down before the vet will even consider going near him - then when he starts to play up and pulls both muzzles off ( with his front paws) the vet just says put him on a diet and bring him back in a month (rarely getting to the reason we're there in the first place) . So to my question, he is a big dog and the vet has told us he needs to lose weight - and i know it will help him in later life if he does - what i would like to know is first of all can you recommend a diet that will help him lose weight .We have tryed, my daughter works in a pet shop so we've tryed lots of different things ( and have access to any food we need) but nothing seems to work and secondly the fat lumps can they be removed (he has two, one is very big ) .We have been to different vets and all have really been put off by his aggression (which only happens at the vets) They have said he can go in and have tests but to knock him out would take enough drugs to stun a Rhino and that that is the biggist risk (so he needs to lose the weight quickly so he can go in have the tests ) he does get quite a bit of excerise but is quite lazy in the day and to be honest he is a very big dog but not fat - you can see the out line of his ribs - so any advice even if its tips on getting him to play nice at the vets would be greatly received. :-6

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Pinky wrote: I don't really know much about dogs, but a few long walks / runs everyday might help. Does he like playing fetch? That means more exercise for Jake, less for you!


We take him to Epping forest every week for a good long run and he goes out for walkies 3 times a day - as for playing fetch - you throw the ball an he looks at you like your some dumb ass HE WILL NOT FETCH .The thing is he was castrated at one and he weighed 7 1/2 stone and the vet said he was fat then so now hes around about 11 there still saying hes too fat ( i think there mistaking him for a Doberman ,stupid bloody vet) - i think he does get enough exersize,we have also cut down his food intake and he gets NO treats at all . Its hard because we cant weigh him regularly without the stress of taking him to the vets.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Pinky wrote: Blimey, he's pretty active anyway then!

This is going to sound daft, but you can get herbal / flower rememdies that can help to de-stress Jake...one of these might be worth a go!

They sell them in most health food shops, and our branch of Boots even do them. All totally natural too!


To be honest im prepaired to try anything - any ideas what there called .

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

SnoozeControl wrote: This probably isn't too helpful, but I had a terminal kitty that I knew was getting stressed from all the vet visits, so I found a 'traveling' vet to put him down at home.

Soooo, maybe you could find one to come to your home where your dog is comfortable and non-aggressive and take a better look at him. I don't like the sound of 'fat lumps.'


All dogs(i think ) get fat lumps i just dont really know much about them .The one thing i would do differently if i got another dog would be to make it vet friendly its such a pain - I am pretty sure hes quite healthy apart from the fat lumps its just finding a diet that works wonders over a quick period of time .

[cherandbuster]

I was going to suggest the exact same thing as Snoozie.

My sis-in-law has two cats that are obsessive-compulsive (DON'T ASK!!). They too were traumatized by visits to the vet. She found a traveling vet to come to her house. But, because of their aggression, she has to give them medication to relax before the vet actually visits.

I think travelling vets are increasingly common. Worth checking out, Pants

[Betty Boop]

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: All dogs(i think ) get fat lumps i just dont really know much about them .The one thing i would do differently if i got another dog would be to make it vet friendly its such a pain - I am pretty sure hes quite healthy apart from the fat lumps its just finding a diet that works wonders over a quick period of time .




If you have a good vet surely they will work with you, can't the vet come out of the surgery to greet your boy, let them make friends then let the vet lead him in to the surgery when the dog is comfortable with him. I've done this in the past with a very nervous puppy, but then, maybe I was lucky enough to have quite a small caring practice down here.

[Bill Sikes]

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: the vet just says put him on a diet and bring him back in a month


Why don't you just ask your vet. for advice on a diet for the dog?

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Betty Boop wrote: If you have a good vet surely they will work with you, can't the vet come out of the surgery to greet your boy, let them make friends then let the vet lead him in to the surgery when the dog is comfortable with him. I've done this in the past with a very nervous puppy, but then, maybe I was lucky enough to have quite a small caring practice down here.


We've tryed that - he just knows as soon as he gets inside the vets room and he plays up .Its impossible to give him an injection let alone anything else .The two times that he had to go in for minor ops the vets rang within minutes of him coming to because he caused them so much hassle and was horse from barking like a nutter .

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Bill Sikes wrote: Why don't you just ask your vet. for advice on a diet for the dog?


We did ,they suggested having him come in weekly to join some sort of fat club and they suggested dry food only - we tryed all their suggestions (apart from the weekly visits ) thats why im asking here as a last resort .

[Bill Sikes]

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: (asking for dog diet advice at the vet) We did ,they suggested having him come in weekly to join some sort of fat club and they suggested dry food only - we tryed all their suggestions (apart from the weekly visits ) thats why im asking here as a last resort /SIZE]COLOR]


Weekly!!! Lumme, I don't suppose they wanted any *money*, did they??

I should buy the Doglopaedia and look at the nutrition section... I could look for

you, but mine's a few miles away!

The problem is that your dog is eating more in terms of calories than it's using,

so the surplus is stored as fat (did you know that 1LB of fat is worth about

3,500 (K) calories, enough to keep an active person going for a day?). There's

some info. here:

http://www.allaboutpets.org.uk/assets/p ... /dog08.pdf

that may be of some help. You could also try the Naturediet site for advice.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Bill Sikes wrote: Weekly!!! Lumme, I don't suppose they wanted any *money*, did they??

I should buy the Doglopaedia and look at the nutrition section... I could look for

you, but mine's a few miles away!

The problem is that your dog is eating more in terms of calories than it's using,

so the surplus is stored as fat (did you know that 1LB of fat is worth about

3,500 (K) calories, enough to keep an active person going for a day?). There's

some info. here:

http://www.allaboutpets.org.uk/assets/p ... /dog08.pdf

that may be of some help. You could also try the Naturediet site for advice.
I know its called daylight robbery - thanks for the tips.

[valerie]

Real quick here before I'm off for my walk...



There are several things here that I'm curious about. One is that

you said you can trace the outline of his ribs? How does that make him

fat? On a healthy dog, you should be able to "feel them but not see them".



Something you can do is collect a fecal sample and take it to the vets,

they can test for parasites without the dog having to be in the office.



I wouldn't worry overly much about the "fat lumps" they are likely just

sebaceous cysts, Tamsen has them and has for years, they are

harmless.



If I were you I'd by a quality dog food, something that says on the

bag "Large breed Senior" because that should have a bit lower

protein and more fiber. Follow the directions on the bag, they should

have to maintain weight and also if you want the dog to lose. (Or

gain in some cases!) Be rigid with this. As a completely wild guess,

I would say your guy shouldn't have more than 4 cups a day, feed

him twice a day. And don't guesstimate, use a measuring cup



How is his water intake? Without seeing him it is just hard to say

what's going on, it could be just about anything, from thyroid to

diabetes. That is probably why your vet wants tests.



If your guy is basically healthy though, try the food restrictions

first.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

valerie wrote: Real quick here before I'm off for my walk...



There are several things here that I'm curious about. One is that

you said you can trace the outline of his ribs? How does that make him

fat? On a healthy dog, you should be able to "feel them but not see them".



you can only see the outline very very very faintly - like ive said already i do not think hes fat at all

Something you can do is collect a fecal sample and take it to the vets,

they can test for parasites without the dog having to be in the office.



I wouldn't worry overly much about the "fat lumps" they are likely just

sebaceous cysts, Tamsen has them and has for years, they are

harmless.



If I were you I'd by a quality dog food, something that says on the

bag "Large breed Senior" because that should have a bit lower

protein and more fiber. Follow the directions on the bag, they should

have to maintain weight and also if you want the dog to lose. (Or

gain in some cases!) Be rigid with this. As a completely wild guess,

I would say your guy shouldn't have more than 4 cups a day, feed

him twice a day. And don't guesstimate, use a measuring cup



How is his water intake? Without seeing him it is just hard to say

what's going on, it could be just about anything, from thyroid to

diabetes. That is probably why your vet wants tests.



The tests were to confirm the lumps were no more than fat lumps - the vet didnt seem at all overly worried

If your guy is basically healthy though, try the food restrictions

first.


Can you tell me someting about fat lumps - are they really nothing to worry about.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Pinky wrote: Bach Flower Remedies are the most well known. I'd go with them.
Does anyone know if this sort of remedy could be used on an animal - i dont know much about this sort of thing .

[Lulu2]

Val said everything I'd say, except this....some sebaceous cysts can mask more dangerous things and so, they should be examined by a vet. My dog had one which turned almost overnight into an enormous absess...horrible experience for everyone!

Like everyone else here, I'm wondering if you might search for another vet...at least one who'll help you find an appropriate "doggie downer" to help your dog be calm during the process.

[LilacDragon]

My rottie had a couple of fatty tumors when she got older. So long as they don't get in the way, they are nothing to worry about.

If you can feel your dog's ribs but not see them, then she is not overweight.

When my girl needed to go on a diet, she was fed 2/3 of her regular amount of kibble and 1/3 green beans.

I have to run out, but I will be back later.

[Lulu2]

GREEN BEANS, eh? And was she still fun to be with? :rolleyes:

:wah:

[Lulu2]

I agree, Snoozer...they might easily become inflamed. My vet also says certain tumors can resemble sebacious cysts and so, they should be examined at least once.

[LilacDragon]

Lulu2 wrote: GREEN BEANS, eh? And was she still fun to be with? :rolleyes:

:wah:


She wasn't any more gassy then normal.

Green beans make you feel full, have some of those veggie vitamins and dogs aren't usually allergic to them.

The weight came of at a slow but steady pace without her thinking that she was starving to death. She went from 130 pounds to 115 in about 6 weeks or so.

[Lulu2]

No more gassy than usual, eh? There's a LOT in that sentence!

Two of the dogs I regularly care for are on the BARF diet (that's vegetables and raw meat/raw chicken with bones.) It keeps them in very good shape...but...there is just a TEENY WEENY gas problem!

[CheshireCat]

I'm so sorry to hear that your pup is under the weather.

Ok, one of the most common things we see in older dogs are Lipomas, fatty deposits under the skin. Most of the time they are harmless, but you would want to have them biopsied to make sure. They can be removed, but unless they are just huge or are occurring around a joint (such as the hips or knee joint).

He also would benefit from bloodwork to rule out diabetes and pancreatitis. Hypercholesterolemia is another cause of "fatty deposits"

As far as the aggression at the vet, we see this all the time. It's very common for an animal to act out of character when they are frightenend. The best thing for this is a drug called Acepromazine. It won't put him out, but it will make him easier to handle, animals usually come out of it fairly quickly.

GOOD LUCK!!

[LilacDragon]

Lulu2 wrote: No more gassy than usual, eh? There's a LOT in that sentence!

Two of the dogs I regularly care for are on the BARF diet (that's vegetables and raw meat/raw chicken with bones.) It keeps them in very good shape...but...there is just a TEENY WEENY gas problem!


If there is a gas problem, mention yogurt to your friend. Chase got a tablespoon in her bowl for each meal when she was eating raw. It really does help keep the gas problem down.

Umm. Yeah. Chase would fart, look at her butt and then look at me as if to say "Why did you do that, Mom!" Then she would get up and leave the room. :yh_rotfl

[Lulu2]

:wah: Usually, it's the DOG who gets blamed, isn't it? The dogs do get yogurt--a spoonful in each meal. I'd hate to think of what they'd be like without it! :yh_sick

[LilacDragon]

Are these dogs Boxers, by chance? I hear there is no breed gassier then a Boxer. And judging from my brother's - I won't argue the point!

[CheshireCat]

Lamb and Rice is a good diet for dogs. You could also feed him boiled chicken and rice.

[CheshireCat]

Hey, how's it going with you pup?

I have access to a DVM every day, if you have specific questions, please PM me. I can give you advice, especially in this forum, because it is kind of annoymous, normally we couldn't give put any kind of diagnosis without seeing an animal, because of liability laws. But in this case, you can kind of use common sense, reling on experience from past cases, it would just give you the right questions to ask your vet. Let me know if there is any way that I can help. Animals are my life!

:-6