chonsigirl wrote: Hmm, I seem to recall something known as Pearl Harbor and World War II...........
Military target during time of war vs. civilian target during time of peace.
Terrorism = America
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Adam Zapple
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chonsigirl
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Technically, it started a war.............................but it was a digression of the topic.
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Adam Zapple
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Technically, it precipitated America's involvement in a world war that was already raging and that America was most likely going to be drawn into anyway.......but you're right, we are digressing.
Terrorism = America
Adam Zapple wrote: Military target during time of war vs. civilian target during time of peace.
Not a war that involved us at that point.
Not a war that involved us at that point.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
Terrorism = America
chonsigirl wrote: Hmm, I seem to recall something known as Pearl Harbor and World War II...........
That was a pre emptive act of war by one nation on another as a pelude to all out full blooded warfare. Hardly a terrorist attack which in a modern context are not carried out by nation states despite what GW et al would have you believe.
posted by baby rider
Not a war that involved us at that point.
I've often wondered what would have happened if Hitler had not declared war on america. I doubt america would have got involved in the european war, certainly there was a lot of pro german sentiment at the time.
Actually while on the subject of pre-emptive warfare have a look at what the project for the new american century has to say on the subject. Forget the conspiracy sites and do a search under project for the new american century and go direct to the source yourself. Some of the stuff is quite interesting.
That was a pre emptive act of war by one nation on another as a pelude to all out full blooded warfare. Hardly a terrorist attack which in a modern context are not carried out by nation states despite what GW et al would have you believe.
posted by baby rider
Not a war that involved us at that point.
I've often wondered what would have happened if Hitler had not declared war on america. I doubt america would have got involved in the european war, certainly there was a lot of pro german sentiment at the time.
Actually while on the subject of pre-emptive warfare have a look at what the project for the new american century has to say on the subject. Forget the conspiracy sites and do a search under project for the new american century and go direct to the source yourself. Some of the stuff is quite interesting.
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DesignerGal
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gmc wrote: That was an act of war by one nation on another as a pelude to all out full blooded warfare. Hardly a terrorist attack which in a modern context are not carried out by nation states despite what GW et al would have you believe.
posted by baby rider
certainly there was a lot of pro german sentiment at the time.
That is sick to think about.
posted by baby rider
certainly there was a lot of pro german sentiment at the time.
That is sick to think about.
HBIC
Terrorism = America
DesignerGal wrote: That is sick to think about.
Not really. The issues are only ever simple with hindsight. There were right wing movements throughout europe looking to the fascists and nazis just as there were communist. Japan was trying to emulate the imperial powers . Realistically only an idiot would want to get involved in warfare unless it really is a last resort. seems we never learn from the past.
Not really. The issues are only ever simple with hindsight. There were right wing movements throughout europe looking to the fascists and nazis just as there were communist. Japan was trying to emulate the imperial powers . Realistically only an idiot would want to get involved in warfare unless it really is a last resort. seems we never learn from the past.
Terrorism = America
anastrophe wrote: now, moving away from fictional accounts, here are photographs from the well documented march 16, 1988 catastrophe at halabja, where saddam hussein ordered the gassing of kurdish CIVILIANS, killing some 5,000 immediately and up to 12,000 overall after those who were badly wounded by the chemicals later died.
http://www.kurdistanica.com/halabja/en/ ... Frame.html
anyone else have any other non-fiction stories of the murder of civilians? besides 9/11 obviously.
I'd like to add to your non-fiction story a few other facts. As outlined at this site.
in particular:
December 1982 - Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq.
July 1984 - CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to callibrate mustard gas attacks.
March 1986 - US and Great Britain block Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons.
March 21st US becomes only country refusing to sign Security Council resolution on the matter.
Feb 1988 Saddam starts "Anfal" campaign against Kurds.
April 1988 US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas.
At the time the 5000 + deaths occured there were all of two newstories about it in the US papers. (Amy Goodman looked it up) 15 years later and after the first Gulf war with the same criminal is over it becomes a top item of interest.
http://www.kurdistanica.com/halabja/en/ ... Frame.html
anyone else have any other non-fiction stories of the murder of civilians? besides 9/11 obviously.
I'd like to add to your non-fiction story a few other facts. As outlined at this site.
in particular:
December 1982 - Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq.
July 1984 - CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to callibrate mustard gas attacks.
March 1986 - US and Great Britain block Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons.
March 21st US becomes only country refusing to sign Security Council resolution on the matter.
Feb 1988 Saddam starts "Anfal" campaign against Kurds.
April 1988 US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas.
At the time the 5000 + deaths occured there were all of two newstories about it in the US papers. (Amy Goodman looked it up) 15 years later and after the first Gulf war with the same criminal is over it becomes a top item of interest.
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anastrophe
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as usual, unclear on the concept.
the US has had tens of thousands of tons of chemical weapons stockpiled for decades. i believe they've not been used since vietnam, in warfare. halabja was the gassing of a city filled with innocent civilians. i'm no proponent of the use of chemical weapons even in warfare, but this didn't qualify as warfare - it was indiscriminate devastation.
and perhaps *you* didn't care, or know of halabja until recently, but i've known about it since at least the early 1990's, before the first gulf war. it was a horror back then, sorry you weren't aware of it until it became politically expedient for *you*.
oh, and what the hell, let me repeat: matches cause arson. apparently.
the US has had tens of thousands of tons of chemical weapons stockpiled for decades. i believe they've not been used since vietnam, in warfare. halabja was the gassing of a city filled with innocent civilians. i'm no proponent of the use of chemical weapons even in warfare, but this didn't qualify as warfare - it was indiscriminate devastation.
and perhaps *you* didn't care, or know of halabja until recently, but i've known about it since at least the early 1990's, before the first gulf war. it was a horror back then, sorry you weren't aware of it until it became politically expedient for *you*.
oh, and what the hell, let me repeat: matches cause arson. apparently.
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anastrophe
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that the US supported a despot like saddam hussein is a matter of public record, however embarrassing. that we took the bastard out is the righting of a wrong long in coming.
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anastrophe
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Scrat wrote: There comes a point when you have to say that your government is wrong. No lame excuses Anastrophe. There are a lot of guilty people in this world and one hell of a lot of them reside here in America.
Terrorists wear business suits also.
try debating the issues honestly. i excused nothing.
Terrorists wear business suits also.
try debating the issues honestly. i excused nothing.
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Adam Zapple
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Scrat wrote: At least in my view. 
And you wouldn't have it any other way, would you?
And you wouldn't have it any other way, would you?
Terrorism = America
Talk about avoiding issues...
anastrophe, I'd be interested in a legitimate response to the facts of US implicit involvement in the event you refer to.
Scrat wrote: I think that you are intellectually dishonest.
hear, hear
anastrophe, I'd be interested in a legitimate response to the facts of US implicit involvement in the event you refer to.
Scrat wrote: I think that you are intellectually dishonest.
hear, hear
Terrorism = America
koan wrote: Talk about avoiding issues...
anastrophe, I'd be interested in a legitimate response to the facts of US implicit involvement in the event you refer to.
hear, hear
I think you're being a bit unfair to anastrophe there
posted by anastrophe
that the US supported a despot like saddam hussein is a matter of public record, however embarrassing. that we took the bastard out is the righting of a wrong long in coming.
try debating the issues honestly. i excused nothing.
If you look in to where the chemicals and the machine tools came from to manufacture the stuff it gets really depressing.
EEC countries aren't slow in sticking their fingers in the pie, on the other hand many people in those countries are very vocal in complaining about it and making people aware of what is going on in their name. Politicians on both sides of the atlantic are ignoring basic human decency for one reason or the other and treat their electorate with contempt.
One difference, at least I get the impression it is a difference, no politician here would ever dare label someone who opposed the war in Iraq as unpatriotic. Blind patriotism is just not acceptable.
anastrophe, I'd be interested in a legitimate response to the facts of US implicit involvement in the event you refer to.
hear, hear
I think you're being a bit unfair to anastrophe there
posted by anastrophe
that the US supported a despot like saddam hussein is a matter of public record, however embarrassing. that we took the bastard out is the righting of a wrong long in coming.
try debating the issues honestly. i excused nothing.
If you look in to where the chemicals and the machine tools came from to manufacture the stuff it gets really depressing.
EEC countries aren't slow in sticking their fingers in the pie, on the other hand many people in those countries are very vocal in complaining about it and making people aware of what is going on in their name. Politicians on both sides of the atlantic are ignoring basic human decency for one reason or the other and treat their electorate with contempt.
One difference, at least I get the impression it is a difference, no politician here would ever dare label someone who opposed the war in Iraq as unpatriotic. Blind patriotism is just not acceptable.
Terrorism = America
koan wrote: Talk about avoiding issues...
anastrophe, I'd be interested in a legitimate response to the facts of US implicit involvement in the event you refer to.
hear, hear
I think you're being a bit unfair to anastrophe there
posted by anastrophe
that the US supported a despot like saddam hussein is a matter of public record, however embarrassing. that we took the bastard out is the righting of a wrong long in coming.
try debating the issues honestly. i excused nothing.
If you look in to where the chemicals and the machine tools came from to manufacture the stuff it gets really depressing.
EEC countries aren't slow in sticking their fingers in the pie, the british and french were heavily involved in this. on the other hand many people in those countries are very vocal in complaining about it and making people aware of what is going on in their name. Politicians on both sides of the atlantic are ignoring basic human decency for one reason or the other and treat their electorate with contempt.
One difference, at least I get the impression it is a difference, no politician here would ever dare label someone who opposed the war in Iraq as unpatriotic. Blind patriotism is just not acceptable.
anastrophe, I'd be interested in a legitimate response to the facts of US implicit involvement in the event you refer to.
hear, hear
I think you're being a bit unfair to anastrophe there
posted by anastrophe
that the US supported a despot like saddam hussein is a matter of public record, however embarrassing. that we took the bastard out is the righting of a wrong long in coming.
try debating the issues honestly. i excused nothing.
If you look in to where the chemicals and the machine tools came from to manufacture the stuff it gets really depressing.
EEC countries aren't slow in sticking their fingers in the pie, the british and french were heavily involved in this. on the other hand many people in those countries are very vocal in complaining about it and making people aware of what is going on in their name. Politicians on both sides of the atlantic are ignoring basic human decency for one reason or the other and treat their electorate with contempt.
One difference, at least I get the impression it is a difference, no politician here would ever dare label someone who opposed the war in Iraq as unpatriotic. Blind patriotism is just not acceptable.
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Accountable
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gmc wrote: I think you're being a bit unfair to anastrophe there
posted by anastrophe
If you look in to where the chemicals and the machine tools came from to manufacture the stuff it gets really depressing.
EEC countries aren't slow in sticking their fingers in the pie, on the other hand many people in those countries are very vocal in complaining about it and making people aware of what is going on in their name. Politicians on both sides of the atlantic are ignoring basic human decency for one reason or the other and treat their electorate with contempt.
:yh_clap
gmc wrote: One difference, at least I get the impression it is a difference, no politician here would ever dare label someone who opposed the war in Iraq as unpatriotic. Blind patriotism is just not acceptable.
In this thread, Sprat & Anastrophe are the only Americans involved for awhile. Nobody (I'm guessing) thinks Anastrophe is unpatriotic. Sprat is against the very foundations on which our society is based, regardless of the war. I'm not sure that could be more unpatriotic.
posted by anastrophe
If you look in to where the chemicals and the machine tools came from to manufacture the stuff it gets really depressing.
EEC countries aren't slow in sticking their fingers in the pie, on the other hand many people in those countries are very vocal in complaining about it and making people aware of what is going on in their name. Politicians on both sides of the atlantic are ignoring basic human decency for one reason or the other and treat their electorate with contempt.
:yh_clap
gmc wrote: One difference, at least I get the impression it is a difference, no politician here would ever dare label someone who opposed the war in Iraq as unpatriotic. Blind patriotism is just not acceptable.
In this thread, Sprat & Anastrophe are the only Americans involved for awhile. Nobody (I'm guessing) thinks Anastrophe is unpatriotic. Sprat is against the very foundations on which our society is based, regardless of the war. I'm not sure that could be more unpatriotic.
Terrorism = America
gmc, I don't think I was unfair. After my post the response I got was:
anastrophe wrote: as usual, unclear on the concept.
the US has had tens of thousands of tons of chemical weapons stockpiled for decades. i believe they've not been used since vietnam, in warfare. halabja was the gassing of a city filled with innocent civilians. i'm no proponent of the use of chemical weapons even in warfare, but this didn't qualify as warfare - it was indiscriminate devastation.
and perhaps *you* didn't care, or know of halabja until recently, but i've known about it since at least the early 1990's, before the first gulf war. it was a horror back then, sorry you weren't aware of it until it became politically expedient for *you*.
oh, and what the hell, let me repeat: matches cause arson. apparently.
One month after the attack on the Kurds the US allows shipment of more chemicals having seen what they are being used for.
are the "unclear on the concept" comment and the *you* comments justified in the response I got? The number of newpaper articles printed at the time was not related to the number of times I looked for the articles or anything to do with *me*. Pure ad hominem, anastrophe, you must be proud.
As to the fire comment; Fire has been considered a gift from the Gods and has advanced civilization. Guns and mustard gas chemicals hardly compare. If you hand a match to someone who is cooking you can be reasonably sure what will be done with it. If you hand chemicals to a leader who just gassed thousands of his people you can also be reasonably sure what he will do with it.
anastrophe wrote: as usual, unclear on the concept.
the US has had tens of thousands of tons of chemical weapons stockpiled for decades. i believe they've not been used since vietnam, in warfare. halabja was the gassing of a city filled with innocent civilians. i'm no proponent of the use of chemical weapons even in warfare, but this didn't qualify as warfare - it was indiscriminate devastation.
and perhaps *you* didn't care, or know of halabja until recently, but i've known about it since at least the early 1990's, before the first gulf war. it was a horror back then, sorry you weren't aware of it until it became politically expedient for *you*.
oh, and what the hell, let me repeat: matches cause arson. apparently.
One month after the attack on the Kurds the US allows shipment of more chemicals having seen what they are being used for.
are the "unclear on the concept" comment and the *you* comments justified in the response I got? The number of newpaper articles printed at the time was not related to the number of times I looked for the articles or anything to do with *me*. Pure ad hominem, anastrophe, you must be proud.
As to the fire comment; Fire has been considered a gift from the Gods and has advanced civilization. Guns and mustard gas chemicals hardly compare. If you hand a match to someone who is cooking you can be reasonably sure what will be done with it. If you hand chemicals to a leader who just gassed thousands of his people you can also be reasonably sure what he will do with it.
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anastrophe
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yes, i made barbed statements to koan that were ad hominem. there are degrees of ad hominem it's worth noting, and my comments were awfully mild. scrats however fall into the violently spewing hatred category, where rational disagreement plays no part. sorry, not going to dignify his foul bilgewater of a post with any specific response.
koan, think for a minute, please. of course there were almost no news reports in the immediate aftermath of halabja, because there was nobody reporting on it. saddam's people denied it, the kurds had no formal means of distributing information about it. it was at the level of rumor, and was denied for years - and proof that it took place took a long time to get out. it shouldn't be forgotten either that halabja was *not* an isolated event - it's merely the one for which clear news and evidence did get out, sooner than for other atrocities. the anfal campaign was a campaign of genocide. conservative estimates are that 100,000 kurds died in the anfal massacres.
the US government did not know that saddam had used chemical weapons against the kurds at the time the shipments were approved. The chemical that was shipped was Thiodiglycol:
Thiodiglycol has both polar and nonpolar solvent properties. It is used as a solvent in dyeing textile. In chemical synthesis it is used as a building block for protection products, dispersants, fibers, plasticizers, rubber accelerators, pesticides, dyes, and various other organic chemicals. In manufacture of polymers, it is used as a chain transfer agent. It is an antioxidant. It is used as an additive to lubricants.
that's from wikipedia. also from wikipedia:
By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm of Singapore supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.
as usual, the question again becomes, why do you reserve your umbrage only for the US? where is your condemnation of these other countries? and no, i'm not asking you to acknowledge that others engaged arms trade with iraq, i'm waiting for your condemnations similar to those you have for the US. because i don't think i've ever read a cross word you've written about any other damned country. what about france? they supplied arms to saddam long after the US stopped. it's one of the primary reasons they wouldn't go along with UN condemnation of iraq - iraq was their best customer!
it shouldn't have to be said, but politics makes strange bedfellows. the US has gotten into bed with a lot of bad actors over the years.
we are not unique in doing so, nor are we so dysfunctional that getting into bed with bad actors is *the only thing we do*.
everybody loves to 'pile on' to the US. no good that we do is ever free of criticism that we "could have done more". no bad that we do is ever overlooked. britain and france carved up the middle east like a pie, as their spoils of world war II. but that's "in the past" for purposes of discussion.
koan, think for a minute, please. of course there were almost no news reports in the immediate aftermath of halabja, because there was nobody reporting on it. saddam's people denied it, the kurds had no formal means of distributing information about it. it was at the level of rumor, and was denied for years - and proof that it took place took a long time to get out. it shouldn't be forgotten either that halabja was *not* an isolated event - it's merely the one for which clear news and evidence did get out, sooner than for other atrocities. the anfal campaign was a campaign of genocide. conservative estimates are that 100,000 kurds died in the anfal massacres.
the US government did not know that saddam had used chemical weapons against the kurds at the time the shipments were approved. The chemical that was shipped was Thiodiglycol:
Thiodiglycol has both polar and nonpolar solvent properties. It is used as a solvent in dyeing textile. In chemical synthesis it is used as a building block for protection products, dispersants, fibers, plasticizers, rubber accelerators, pesticides, dyes, and various other organic chemicals. In manufacture of polymers, it is used as a chain transfer agent. It is an antioxidant. It is used as an additive to lubricants.
that's from wikipedia. also from wikipedia:
By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm of Singapore supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.
as usual, the question again becomes, why do you reserve your umbrage only for the US? where is your condemnation of these other countries? and no, i'm not asking you to acknowledge that others engaged arms trade with iraq, i'm waiting for your condemnations similar to those you have for the US. because i don't think i've ever read a cross word you've written about any other damned country. what about france? they supplied arms to saddam long after the US stopped. it's one of the primary reasons they wouldn't go along with UN condemnation of iraq - iraq was their best customer!
it shouldn't have to be said, but politics makes strange bedfellows. the US has gotten into bed with a lot of bad actors over the years.
we are not unique in doing so, nor are we so dysfunctional that getting into bed with bad actors is *the only thing we do*.
everybody loves to 'pile on' to the US. no good that we do is ever free of criticism that we "could have done more". no bad that we do is ever overlooked. britain and france carved up the middle east like a pie, as their spoils of world war II. but that's "in the past" for purposes of discussion.
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anastrophe
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Scrat wrote: Why do you deny the involvement of America in the politics of other countries that go far beyond that of commerce? Once again, you are making excuses for poor behavior that gets people killed. You are correct though, America is far from the only country guilty of such things.
It seems that we should be better than that though.
goddamn it, stop projecting your pathologies onto me. i'm sick of it. nowhere have i denied our involvement - my words are right here, plain as day. nowhere have i denied it. nowhere have i made excuses. show me where i've excused bad behavior?
what gets under my skin is this viceral hatred for my country, to the exclusion of any discussion of far worse things done by other countries. that's not an excuse, it's fatigue from listening to this fulminating contempt for the united states that borders on the hysterical.
It seems that we should be better than that though.
goddamn it, stop projecting your pathologies onto me. i'm sick of it. nowhere have i denied our involvement - my words are right here, plain as day. nowhere have i denied it. nowhere have i made excuses. show me where i've excused bad behavior?
what gets under my skin is this viceral hatred for my country, to the exclusion of any discussion of far worse things done by other countries. that's not an excuse, it's fatigue from listening to this fulminating contempt for the united states that borders on the hysterical.
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Terrorism = America
anastrophe wrote: what gets under my skin is this viceral hatred for my country, to the exclusion of any discussion of far worse things done by other countries. that's not an excuse, it's fatigue from listening to this fulminating contempt for the united states that borders on the hysterical.
:yh_clap :yh_clap
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:yh_clap :yh_clap
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
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nvalleyvee
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Scrat........................I am killing bugs all over my house and especially on my computer screen....................Can you relate? LMFAO
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
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Adam Zapple
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Terrorism = America
standing ovation for anastrophe...:yh_clap :yh_clap :yh_clap :yh_clap
The UN Human Rights Commission effectively legalized terrorism - From the April 16, 2002 edition of The National Post:
“Six European Union countries yesterday endorsed a United Nations document that condones violence as a way to achieve Palestinian statehood¦Canada and two EU countries — Britain and Germany — opposed the measure, which supports the use of ‘all available means, including armed struggle’ to establish a Palestinian state. Guatemala and the Czech Republic joined the opposing voices, but with 40 countries of the 53-member commission voting yes and seven abstaining, the resolution is now part of the international record¦ ‘The failure of the resolution to condemn all acts of terrorism, particularly in the context of recent suicide bombings targeting Israeli civilians, is a serious oversight which renders the resolution fundamentally unacceptable,’ said Marie Gervais-Vidricaire, Canada's ambassador to the commission. ‘There can be no justification whatsoever for terrorist acts¦.’ EU members Austria, Belgium, France, Portugal, Spain and Sweden approved the resolution, and Italy abstained.
The UN Human Rights Commission effectively legalized terrorism - From the April 16, 2002 edition of The National Post:
“Six European Union countries yesterday endorsed a United Nations document that condones violence as a way to achieve Palestinian statehood¦Canada and two EU countries — Britain and Germany — opposed the measure, which supports the use of ‘all available means, including armed struggle’ to establish a Palestinian state. Guatemala and the Czech Republic joined the opposing voices, but with 40 countries of the 53-member commission voting yes and seven abstaining, the resolution is now part of the international record¦ ‘The failure of the resolution to condemn all acts of terrorism, particularly in the context of recent suicide bombings targeting Israeli civilians, is a serious oversight which renders the resolution fundamentally unacceptable,’ said Marie Gervais-Vidricaire, Canada's ambassador to the commission. ‘There can be no justification whatsoever for terrorist acts¦.’ EU members Austria, Belgium, France, Portugal, Spain and Sweden approved the resolution, and Italy abstained.
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Accountable
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anastrophe wrote: [...] i'm waiting for your condemnations similar to those you have for the US. because i don't think i've ever read a cross word you've written about any other damned country.
And waiting ... and waiting ...
Of course, Scrat complies by condemning the democratic gov't in the middle of the jackals. That's to be expected, I spose.
Anastrophe, you dropped out for months not long after I joined. Your silence was too long. :yh_clap *stands shoulder-to- shoulder*
And waiting ... and waiting ...
Of course, Scrat complies by condemning the democratic gov't in the middle of the jackals. That's to be expected, I spose.
Anastrophe, you dropped out for months not long after I joined. Your silence was too long. :yh_clap *stands shoulder-to- shoulder*
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anastrophe
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Scrat wrote: And an aparthied society like Israel, where it is written into the constitution that Palastinians can never have a majority in the government of said country.
Where Arabs are considered second class citizens in their own lands.
Everybody has a right to fight for their freedom, even the Goyem like me and whatever the racist Jews consider the Palastinians.
Israel feathered its own bed.
as you might imagine, i reject that - and find it offensive. apartheid? yeah, right. but Thomas Sowell says is far better than i ever could:
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell071806.asp
only moral relativists excuse the fact that the arabs of the region will never be content until the last jew is driven (or more conveniently, exterminated) from Palestine.
Where Arabs are considered second class citizens in their own lands.
Everybody has a right to fight for their freedom, even the Goyem like me and whatever the racist Jews consider the Palastinians.
Israel feathered its own bed.
as you might imagine, i reject that - and find it offensive. apartheid? yeah, right. but Thomas Sowell says is far better than i ever could:
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell071806.asp
only moral relativists excuse the fact that the arabs of the region will never be content until the last jew is driven (or more conveniently, exterminated) from Palestine.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Terrorism = America
I was channel surfing and saw 20/20 or 60 Minutes or some such, Peter Jennings or some other clone was chatting with Israelis, in an Israeli cafe, when he found that one couple was Jew & Palestinian. When the reporter remarked surprise at such a union, the wife said that 10 years ago no one would have even taken notice.
Damned racists. :yh_youkid
Damned racists. :yh_youkid
Terrorism = America
SnoozeControl wrote: Not to sound ignorant (hopefully), but how would anyone know unless they told them? 
Then we'll be ignorant together, Snooze, because I wondered the same thing...
Then we'll be ignorant together, Snooze, because I wondered the same thing...
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Terrorism = America
SnoozeControl wrote: Not to sound ignorant (hopefully), but how would anyone know unless they told them? Dunno. Bone structure? I can usually tell different nationalities of Asians by bone structure.
Dunno. Bone structure? I can usually tell different nationalities of Asians by bone structure.-
anastrophe
- Posts: 3135
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm
Terrorism = America
Scrat wrote: I don't need an article to speak for me.
well aren't you ever so special! there's such a thing as, you know, learning something new that might challenge your confirmation bias. but god forbid.
Israel has brought the strife she suffers on herself in many ways. It is the same with the Palastinians.
The solution to the problem lies in a 3rd party that is capable of running Israel and Palastine in whatever manner necessary to bring about the condition of peace.
Until then we will take the side that we do. And get nowhere.
let's see, a 3rd party. so you're advocating, say, another country come in and take control to try to restore order.
who would you recommend?
it's amazing how you've figured out how to solve 3000 years of strife in a single sentence.
well aren't you ever so special! there's such a thing as, you know, learning something new that might challenge your confirmation bias. but god forbid.
Israel has brought the strife she suffers on herself in many ways. It is the same with the Palastinians.
The solution to the problem lies in a 3rd party that is capable of running Israel and Palastine in whatever manner necessary to bring about the condition of peace.
Until then we will take the side that we do. And get nowhere.
let's see, a 3rd party. so you're advocating, say, another country come in and take control to try to restore order.
who would you recommend?
it's amazing how you've figured out how to solve 3000 years of strife in a single sentence.
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anastrophe
- Posts: 3135
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm
Terrorism = America
Scrat wrote: Just goes to prove who we need to get rid of. The religious radicals on both sides. Some reporters too?
who's this 'we', whiteman? don't look now, but your western imperialist heritage is showing.
who's this 'we', whiteman? don't look now, but your western imperialist heritage is showing.
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anastrophe
- Posts: 3135
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm
Terrorism = America
Scrat wrote: I don't need an article to speak for me.
you know what's particularly amusing and ironic about this comment? the countless times you've dumped screenloads and screenloads of text from articles here on forumgarden, without even giving any attribution.
you know what's particularly amusing and ironic about this comment? the countless times you've dumped screenloads and screenloads of text from articles here on forumgarden, without even giving any attribution.
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