What do people think of this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 175160.stm
"Israel is imposing an air and sea blockade on Lebanon as part of a major offensive after two soldiers were seized by the militant group Hezbollah.
Israeli warships have blocked Lebanese ports, and its international airport was closed after Israeli bombing.
A Lebanese cabinet minister said the Israeli response was disproportionate, and called for a ceasefire.
Raids on targets across south Lebanon have killed at least 35. Two have died in Hezbollah attacks on Israel.
The operation comes as Israel continues a separate offensive in the Gaza Strip. An Israeli soldier was captured there last month."
Do you think Israel have overreacted? Used a disprortionate amount of force? Or are their actions justified?
Israel and Lebannon
Israel and Lebannon
Scary. Really, really scary. let's see...possible scenario. Lebanon doesn't back down and declares war on Israel. Israel slaughters them for about a week, then Iran joins the fight.
Iran begins to lose (those Israelis are TOUGH!) so they decide to use one of their nukes on an Israeli port city. Before the U.S. can calm everyone down, the Israelis use their nukes.
Now it's on. All out nuclear war. :-2
Iran begins to lose (those Israelis are TOUGH!) so they decide to use one of their nukes on an Israeli port city. Before the U.S. can calm everyone down, the Israelis use their nukes.
Now it's on. All out nuclear war. :-2
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Israel and Lebannon
flopstock wrote: I think that measured and proportionate responses haven't gotten them anywhere.
I think that it is outrageous that we are not more outraged at the civilians being attacked and killed. I remember how much it bothered us that others thought it fair to take out American civilians for the considered 'wrongs' of our government.
I think that it is cowardly for these groups to hide themselves amongst civilians.
I think it is a shame that grown men and women cannot stomach a future with 'others' in it...
Couldn't agree with you more. I think the israelis are going over the top with this and playing right in to the extremists hands. To blame the lebanese govt for the action of a few terrorists is wrong. Same as in Palestine to carry out air attacks on civilian targets and kill women and children is hardly likely to lose the extremists any support, quite the opposite. They've been doing it for thirty years in palestine it's about time they relised it doesn't work as a means of combating terrorism. It would be like the British attacking the Irish republic because of the IRA. The idea that the Lebanese govt actually wants to go to war with Israel is silly they were just getting used to having peace in their country.
It looks that some in the israeli government are determined to start a full scale war in the middle east.
posted by jives
Scary. Really, really scary. let's see...possible scenario. Lebanon doesn't back down and declares war on Israel. Israel slaughters them for about a week, then Iran joins the fight.
Iran begins to lose (those Israelis are TOUGH!) so they decide to use one of their nukes on an Israeli port city. Before the U.S. can calm everyone down, the Israelis use their nukes.
Now it's on. All out nuclear war
Iran doesn't have any nuclear weapons unlike Israel which does, having developed them secretly. Nor has Iran shown any disposition to attack other countries beyond perhaps stirring things up. The Iraq Iran war wasn't started by Iran if you remember. If attacked they will defend thenselves but the idea they will decalare war on israel is ludicrous they know they don't have the military to do it. I haven't heard the most rabid anti iranian accusing them of stupidity. Syria and egypt are more likely to get involved.
If they wanted to the US could calm israel down by threatening to cut off all aid unless they stop military action. Full scale warfare is not the way to deal with terrorists that's what they are after.
I think that it is outrageous that we are not more outraged at the civilians being attacked and killed. I remember how much it bothered us that others thought it fair to take out American civilians for the considered 'wrongs' of our government.
I think that it is cowardly for these groups to hide themselves amongst civilians.
I think it is a shame that grown men and women cannot stomach a future with 'others' in it...
Couldn't agree with you more. I think the israelis are going over the top with this and playing right in to the extremists hands. To blame the lebanese govt for the action of a few terrorists is wrong. Same as in Palestine to carry out air attacks on civilian targets and kill women and children is hardly likely to lose the extremists any support, quite the opposite. They've been doing it for thirty years in palestine it's about time they relised it doesn't work as a means of combating terrorism. It would be like the British attacking the Irish republic because of the IRA. The idea that the Lebanese govt actually wants to go to war with Israel is silly they were just getting used to having peace in their country.
It looks that some in the israeli government are determined to start a full scale war in the middle east.
posted by jives
Scary. Really, really scary. let's see...possible scenario. Lebanon doesn't back down and declares war on Israel. Israel slaughters them for about a week, then Iran joins the fight.
Iran begins to lose (those Israelis are TOUGH!) so they decide to use one of their nukes on an Israeli port city. Before the U.S. can calm everyone down, the Israelis use their nukes.
Now it's on. All out nuclear war
Iran doesn't have any nuclear weapons unlike Israel which does, having developed them secretly. Nor has Iran shown any disposition to attack other countries beyond perhaps stirring things up. The Iraq Iran war wasn't started by Iran if you remember. If attacked they will defend thenselves but the idea they will decalare war on israel is ludicrous they know they don't have the military to do it. I haven't heard the most rabid anti iranian accusing them of stupidity. Syria and egypt are more likely to get involved.
If they wanted to the US could calm israel down by threatening to cut off all aid unless they stop military action. Full scale warfare is not the way to deal with terrorists that's what they are after.
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Uncle Kram
- Posts: 5991
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Israel and Lebannon
Seen this one coming for a while. It looks major I'm afraid
THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN PUN
Israel and Lebannon
The palests and their supporters have brought this on themselves by constantly attacking us. The constant attacks, the rocket attacks, the funding of terrorists to attack us, the training of terrorists to atack us, it’s reached its break point when hezballah forces broke our borders and took prisoners.
We have repeatedly tried to find peace with the palests, they consistently reject our offers and continue to attack us. The election of hammas, a party sworn to our destruction, could ever only have one outcome, war.
Now hezballah (party of allah) who have been most unwelcome invaders of Lebanon and who are in effect the irregular Syrian force, have STARTED to get the kicking they deserve.
We have everything to lose and so we have nothing to lose. In the event that we do get overrun the world would do well to recall the scorched earth strategy adopted by Russia against their attack by fascists. The Russians ensured that what they lost would be of no possible use to the invaders. I
We have the means to scorch our earth and so make it worthless to anyone who looks like they could take it from us. We will use such means after first having scorched THEIR earth.
We have repeatedly tried to find peace with the palests, they consistently reject our offers and continue to attack us. The election of hammas, a party sworn to our destruction, could ever only have one outcome, war.
Now hezballah (party of allah) who have been most unwelcome invaders of Lebanon and who are in effect the irregular Syrian force, have STARTED to get the kicking they deserve.
We have everything to lose and so we have nothing to lose. In the event that we do get overrun the world would do well to recall the scorched earth strategy adopted by Russia against their attack by fascists. The Russians ensured that what they lost would be of no possible use to the invaders. I
We have the means to scorch our earth and so make it worthless to anyone who looks like they could take it from us. We will use such means after first having scorched THEIR earth.
Israel and Lebannon
golem wrote: The palests and their supporters have brought this on themselves by constantly attacking us. The constant attacks, the rocket attacks, the funding of terrorists to attack us, the training of terrorists to atack us, it’s reached its break point when hezballah forces broke our borders and took prisoners.
Excise me but the rocket attacks started AFTER you attacked Lebanon and the Israeli attack was NOT in response to them.
It was, supposedly, in response to the kidnapping of two millitary personell by terrorists in Israeli territory. Blaming the Lebanese government and attacking Lebanon, killing ?50? civilians is over-reaction on a massive scale - reminicent of the you hurt one of ours and we'll kill 100 of your policies of other regiemes.
Excise me but the rocket attacks started AFTER you attacked Lebanon and the Israeli attack was NOT in response to them.
It was, supposedly, in response to the kidnapping of two millitary personell by terrorists in Israeli territory. Blaming the Lebanese government and attacking Lebanon, killing ?50? civilians is over-reaction on a massive scale - reminicent of the you hurt one of ours and we'll kill 100 of your policies of other regiemes.
Israel and Lebannon
There have been a succession of rocket attacks from Gaza as well as incursions across our border with Lebanon.
We gave the palests the rope, what they chose to do with it was up to them. They could have gone down the road towards a peaceful co-existence, they chose not. So be it.
That they took advantage of moving rocket launch sites closer to Israel once we had returned Gaza to them, and that their so called ‘police’ did ZILCH to prevent this was what made OUR defending ourselves by doing what had to be done inevitable.
Where is the Lebanese government being blamed anyway? The Lebanese government are in some respects as much victims of the hezballah scum as we ourselves are.
And remember, the principle of†you touch one of us and it is as if you have touched ALL of us†is firmly entrenched in most of us Jews.
This will be all out war unless the other side either back down or are brought to heel.
We have everything to lose and so we have nothing to lose.
People should bear that in mind.
We gave the palests the rope, what they chose to do with it was up to them. They could have gone down the road towards a peaceful co-existence, they chose not. So be it.
That they took advantage of moving rocket launch sites closer to Israel once we had returned Gaza to them, and that their so called ‘police’ did ZILCH to prevent this was what made OUR defending ourselves by doing what had to be done inevitable.
Where is the Lebanese government being blamed anyway? The Lebanese government are in some respects as much victims of the hezballah scum as we ourselves are.
And remember, the principle of†you touch one of us and it is as if you have touched ALL of us†is firmly entrenched in most of us Jews.
This will be all out war unless the other side either back down or are brought to heel.
We have everything to lose and so we have nothing to lose.
People should bear that in mind.
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DesignerGal
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:20 am
Israel and Lebannon
Scrat wrote: What kind of drugs are you on? Or is this one of your fantasies?
I have a huge gut instinct Jives doesnt do drugs.
I have a huge gut instinct Jives doesnt do drugs.
HBIC
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Israel and Lebannon
Israel has the right to protect itself. Israel is trying to maintain national soverienty in a sea of hostility. Syria doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of dragging Israel into a battle of attrition, not alone it doesn't. The Palestinian people have been betrayed and used scraficial lambs by their arab brethren in an attempt to destroy Israel. The Palestinians will have a chance at peace and prosperity only when they reject the leadership of Hamas and the PLO. Millions/billions of international dollars have been poured into Palestine and the people were robbed blind by the likes of Arafat. A Palestinian state could have been established as far back as the British Mandate but there was no serious consideration of ever peacefullly coexisting with the Jewish pigs by the arabs in the Middle East and Palestine has paid the price ever since.
Israel and Lebannon
I can't argue with any of that.
Nor would I want to.
Well maybe the "Jewish Pigs" could have been put differently, but I know what you mean.
Nor would I want to.
Well maybe the "Jewish Pigs" could have been put differently, but I know what you mean.
Israel and Lebannon
I can't add anything to the discussion except please stay safe, Golem.
Israel and Lebannon
I agree that Israel has the right to defend itself (as any nation does) but I think Israel initially overreacted and it is Israel that can control how far this thing escalates. Thing is, it can be easy to sit on the outside and criticise Israel for their actions. However, I don't know what it's like to get on a bus each day and wonder if the bloke behind me is going to blow himself up or wonder if next time I open my front door a rocket is going to land on my doorstep.
Israel and Lebannon
I also saw this one coming just hoped it wouldn't this is major warfare. Golem you be safe I can't imagine what your up against. :-5 Who knows what will happen next I just don't have a good feeling about it at all. So many innocent people will be killed and the middle east will never be at peace ever. :-3
ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Israel and Lebannon
golem wrote: I can't argue with any of that.
Nor would I want to.
Well maybe the "Jewish Pigs" could have been put differently, but I know what you mean.
Sorry, no offense intended. Trying to inject the arab mindset (of some) not my own.
Nor would I want to.
Well maybe the "Jewish Pigs" could have been put differently, but I know what you mean.
Sorry, no offense intended. Trying to inject the arab mindset (of some) not my own.
Israel and Lebannon
Adam Zapple wrote: Sorry, no offense intended. Trying to inject the arab mindset (of some) not my own.
Actually I realised that, and it did give me a laugh!
And thanks for the good wishes for my and my families safety. I’m notionally in the reserve and my son is on his way home to do whatever he can. He also is in the reserve.
People say that what we are doing is disproportionate. If this were simply about the capture of three of our soldiers then if I’m being honest I would tend to agree, but it isn’t.
It’s about escalating numbers of attacks against us by an enemy now better equipped than ever with arms and also troops from both Iran and Syria not to mention substantial numbers if what are euphemistically called “foreign insurgentsâ€, in reality terrorist from all over the place, especially those now flooding across the Egypt / Gaza border as in fact they have been for some weeks now.
There was a real and genuine hope that we could establish a peaceful way forward with the death of Arafat, the man responsible for so much and the mouthpiece of The Muslim Brotherhood, a group established back in the 20’s following the fall of the ottoman Empire.
The collapse of Iraq also opened up real possibilities for the creation of an independent Palestinian state within defined borders. There was real and genuine optomism that we, both the Isralei people AND the Palestinian people, could move towards what would be a mutually beneficial future.
It has failed.
The election of a government that is sworn to our total destruction and sworn to their god in such a way as for anyone to change the remit would be an act of apostasy so inviting being out to death by any Muslim now means that we don’t even have a partner with whom a peace deal is possible as how can you negotiate other than your destruction with the other guy only having your destruction as an acceptable outcome. The only outcome would be an agreement on the date oF your destruction.
Believe me, there is very much more to this war than people recognise. The frightening thing in my opinion is the acceptance that when you have everything to lose you have nothing to lose. That phrase is being heard all over the place now even rom friends that I have from whom I would NEVER have expected to hear such a thing.
Actually I realised that, and it did give me a laugh!
And thanks for the good wishes for my and my families safety. I’m notionally in the reserve and my son is on his way home to do whatever he can. He also is in the reserve.
People say that what we are doing is disproportionate. If this were simply about the capture of three of our soldiers then if I’m being honest I would tend to agree, but it isn’t.
It’s about escalating numbers of attacks against us by an enemy now better equipped than ever with arms and also troops from both Iran and Syria not to mention substantial numbers if what are euphemistically called “foreign insurgentsâ€, in reality terrorist from all over the place, especially those now flooding across the Egypt / Gaza border as in fact they have been for some weeks now.
There was a real and genuine hope that we could establish a peaceful way forward with the death of Arafat, the man responsible for so much and the mouthpiece of The Muslim Brotherhood, a group established back in the 20’s following the fall of the ottoman Empire.
The collapse of Iraq also opened up real possibilities for the creation of an independent Palestinian state within defined borders. There was real and genuine optomism that we, both the Isralei people AND the Palestinian people, could move towards what would be a mutually beneficial future.
It has failed.
The election of a government that is sworn to our total destruction and sworn to their god in such a way as for anyone to change the remit would be an act of apostasy so inviting being out to death by any Muslim now means that we don’t even have a partner with whom a peace deal is possible as how can you negotiate other than your destruction with the other guy only having your destruction as an acceptable outcome. The only outcome would be an agreement on the date oF your destruction.
Believe me, there is very much more to this war than people recognise. The frightening thing in my opinion is the acceptance that when you have everything to lose you have nothing to lose. That phrase is being heard all over the place now even rom friends that I have from whom I would NEVER have expected to hear such a thing.
Israel and Lebannon
golem wrote: Actually I realised that, and it did give me a laugh!
And thanks for the good wishes for my and my families safety. I’m notionally in the reserve and my son is on his way home to do whatever he can. He also is in the reserve.
People say that what we are doing is disproportionate. If this were simply about the capture of three of our soldiers then if I’m being honest I would tend to agree, but it isn’t.
It’s about escalating numbers of attacks against us by an enemy now better equipped than ever with arms and also troops from both Iran and Syria not to mention substantial numbers if what are euphemistically called “foreign insurgentsâ€, in reality terrorist from all over the place, especially those now flooding across the Egypt / Gaza border as in fact they have been for some weeks now.
There was a real and genuine hope that we could establish a peaceful way forward with the death of Arafat, the man responsible for so much and the mouthpiece of The Muslim Brotherhood, a group established back in the 20’s following the fall of the ottoman Empire.
The collapse of Iraq also opened up real possibilities for the creation of an independent Palestinian state within defined borders. There was real and genuine optomism that we, both the Isralei people AND the Palestinian people, could move towards what would be a mutually beneficial future.
It has failed.
The election of a government that is sworn to our total destruction and sworn to their god in such a way as for anyone to change the remit would be an act of apostasy so inviting being out to death by any Muslim now means that we don’t even have a partner with whom a peace deal is possible as how can you negotiate other than your destruction with the other guy only having your destruction as an acceptable outcome. The only outcome would be an agreement on the date oF your destruction.
Believe me, there is very much more to this war than people recognise. The frightening thing in my opinion is the acceptance that when you have everything to lose you have nothing to lose. That phrase is being heard all over the place now even rom friends that I have from whom I would NEVER have expected to hear such a thing.
There may be more to this war than people recognise but Israel is leaving no alternative for itself but warfare which is exactly what extremists on both sides want to have. Lebanon was on it's way to becoming a peaceful state with a viable economy after decades of war and occupation. Israel isn't attacking just Hezbollah it's seems to be deliberately attacking those who want no part of hezbollah as well. I think you will quickly lose any international support if it keeps destroying Lebanon with no regard for innocent casualties or for it's effect on the wider region.
It's not the right to defend yourself from terrorists that is an issue it is the way you go about it. Whatever you have a right to do you seem to think you have a right to overdo regardless of the consequences on anyone else even if they are not involved. It's also a policy that hasn't worked. More of the same won't work either.
Warfare isn't going to solve anything. I wish you well but I don't agree with the way Israel is handling this. I also think the invasion of iraq has done more to destabilise the whole region and feed extremists than anything else.
If Israel thought they could not depend on the support of the americans do you think they would be doing this?
And thanks for the good wishes for my and my families safety. I’m notionally in the reserve and my son is on his way home to do whatever he can. He also is in the reserve.
People say that what we are doing is disproportionate. If this were simply about the capture of three of our soldiers then if I’m being honest I would tend to agree, but it isn’t.
It’s about escalating numbers of attacks against us by an enemy now better equipped than ever with arms and also troops from both Iran and Syria not to mention substantial numbers if what are euphemistically called “foreign insurgentsâ€, in reality terrorist from all over the place, especially those now flooding across the Egypt / Gaza border as in fact they have been for some weeks now.
There was a real and genuine hope that we could establish a peaceful way forward with the death of Arafat, the man responsible for so much and the mouthpiece of The Muslim Brotherhood, a group established back in the 20’s following the fall of the ottoman Empire.
The collapse of Iraq also opened up real possibilities for the creation of an independent Palestinian state within defined borders. There was real and genuine optomism that we, both the Isralei people AND the Palestinian people, could move towards what would be a mutually beneficial future.
It has failed.
The election of a government that is sworn to our total destruction and sworn to their god in such a way as for anyone to change the remit would be an act of apostasy so inviting being out to death by any Muslim now means that we don’t even have a partner with whom a peace deal is possible as how can you negotiate other than your destruction with the other guy only having your destruction as an acceptable outcome. The only outcome would be an agreement on the date oF your destruction.
Believe me, there is very much more to this war than people recognise. The frightening thing in my opinion is the acceptance that when you have everything to lose you have nothing to lose. That phrase is being heard all over the place now even rom friends that I have from whom I would NEVER have expected to hear such a thing.
There may be more to this war than people recognise but Israel is leaving no alternative for itself but warfare which is exactly what extremists on both sides want to have. Lebanon was on it's way to becoming a peaceful state with a viable economy after decades of war and occupation. Israel isn't attacking just Hezbollah it's seems to be deliberately attacking those who want no part of hezbollah as well. I think you will quickly lose any international support if it keeps destroying Lebanon with no regard for innocent casualties or for it's effect on the wider region.
It's not the right to defend yourself from terrorists that is an issue it is the way you go about it. Whatever you have a right to do you seem to think you have a right to overdo regardless of the consequences on anyone else even if they are not involved. It's also a policy that hasn't worked. More of the same won't work either.
Warfare isn't going to solve anything. I wish you well but I don't agree with the way Israel is handling this. I also think the invasion of iraq has done more to destabilise the whole region and feed extremists than anything else.
If Israel thought they could not depend on the support of the americans do you think they would be doing this?
Israel and Lebannon
gmc wrote:
There may be more to this war than people recognise but Israel is leaving no alternative for itself but warfare which is exactly what extremists on both sides want to have.
If you honestly believe that then you are totally mistaken and have no knowledge and certainly no understanding of history.
gmc wrote: Lebanon was on it's way to becoming a peaceful state with a viable economy after decades of war and occupation.
The Lebanon was being used as a staging ground by hezballah. The hezballah scum with the backing of Syria (in fact hezballah is a part of the Syrian extended armed forces) had a stranglehold over the Lebanese government and people.
gmc wrote: Israel isn't attacking just Hezbollah it's seems to be deliberately attacking those who want no part of hezbollah as well.
That is NOT what is taking place. We get BBC TV here and I am amazed at the distortion being presented by the reporters. I suppose that I shouldn’t be, such distortion of reality is quite common place from the BBC and much of your press
gmc wrote: I think you will quickly lose any international support if it keeps destroying Lebanon with no regard for innocent casualties or for it's effect on the wider region.
If we were doing so we should. We are NOT doing so. War is fought on more than one front. Don't ignore the news media as one such.
gmc wrote: It's not the right to defend yourself from terrorists that is an issue it is the way you go about it. Whatever you have a right to do you seem to think you have a right to overdo regardless of the consequences on anyone else even if they are not involved. It's also a policy that hasn't worked. More of the same won't work either.
This is if anything a rather measured response and one that has like so many of our responses been a long time coming.
gmc wrote: Warfare isn't going to solve anything. I wish you well but I don't agree with the way Israel is handling this. I also think the invasion of iraq has done more to destabilise the whole region and feed extremists than anything else.
Then you demonstrate that you know little about the region, the people, or the realities of life here. Sorry, not a personal attack, simply a statement of fact,.
gmc wrote: If Israel thought they could not depend on the support of the americans do you think they would be doing this?
Absolutely YES.
If you or anyone thinks that it is simply the backing of the US or anywhere else that encourages us to take action then they could not be more wrong. For one thing they do not understand the mind set that we have as a race and as a nation.
In fact it has been the pleas by the US for us NOT to become active outside of our borders in defending ourselves from attack that has resulted in far less being done be by us and far more being done TOO us.
There may be more to this war than people recognise but Israel is leaving no alternative for itself but warfare which is exactly what extremists on both sides want to have.
If you honestly believe that then you are totally mistaken and have no knowledge and certainly no understanding of history.
gmc wrote: Lebanon was on it's way to becoming a peaceful state with a viable economy after decades of war and occupation.
The Lebanon was being used as a staging ground by hezballah. The hezballah scum with the backing of Syria (in fact hezballah is a part of the Syrian extended armed forces) had a stranglehold over the Lebanese government and people.
gmc wrote: Israel isn't attacking just Hezbollah it's seems to be deliberately attacking those who want no part of hezbollah as well.
That is NOT what is taking place. We get BBC TV here and I am amazed at the distortion being presented by the reporters. I suppose that I shouldn’t be, such distortion of reality is quite common place from the BBC and much of your press
gmc wrote: I think you will quickly lose any international support if it keeps destroying Lebanon with no regard for innocent casualties or for it's effect on the wider region.
If we were doing so we should. We are NOT doing so. War is fought on more than one front. Don't ignore the news media as one such.
gmc wrote: It's not the right to defend yourself from terrorists that is an issue it is the way you go about it. Whatever you have a right to do you seem to think you have a right to overdo regardless of the consequences on anyone else even if they are not involved. It's also a policy that hasn't worked. More of the same won't work either.
This is if anything a rather measured response and one that has like so many of our responses been a long time coming.
gmc wrote: Warfare isn't going to solve anything. I wish you well but I don't agree with the way Israel is handling this. I also think the invasion of iraq has done more to destabilise the whole region and feed extremists than anything else.
Then you demonstrate that you know little about the region, the people, or the realities of life here. Sorry, not a personal attack, simply a statement of fact,.
gmc wrote: If Israel thought they could not depend on the support of the americans do you think they would be doing this?
Absolutely YES.
If you or anyone thinks that it is simply the backing of the US or anywhere else that encourages us to take action then they could not be more wrong. For one thing they do not understand the mind set that we have as a race and as a nation.
In fact it has been the pleas by the US for us NOT to become active outside of our borders in defending ourselves from attack that has resulted in far less being done be by us and far more being done TOO us.
Israel and Lebannon
DesignerGal wrote: I have a huge gut instinct Jives doesnt do drugs.
Actually I think the world as a whole would be much safer if he would stay on his meds. Chives might very well be our ace in the hole concerning a threat to opt for peace. If we were to threaten to unleash him on Lebanon that would be cause for pause.
Actually I think the world as a whole would be much safer if he would stay on his meds. Chives might very well be our ace in the hole concerning a threat to opt for peace. If we were to threaten to unleash him on Lebanon that would be cause for pause.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Israel and Lebannon
posted by golem
That is NOT what is taking place. We get BBC TV here and I am amazed at the distortion being presented by the reporters. I suppose that I shouldn’t be, such distortion of reality is quite common place from the BBC and much of your press
On the whole the BBC is fairly objective and tries to put both sides of an arguement, indeed it is a crucial part of it's charter that it be unbiased which is why our politicains don't like it either when it reports on their wrongdoings, they'r ehaving a great tiome just now with tony the liar. Both israeli and palestinians get their say, sometimes in the same programme or report and even get to talk to each other.
Just because it does not put your point of view alone does not make it biased. Could be you are not seeing the whole story in your media.
posted by golem
If you honestly believe that then you are totally mistaken and have no knowledge and certainly no understanding of history.
Just because someone does not share your opinion does not make them
a) wrong
b) ignorant.
I really don't care that you think me mistaken and have no knowledge or understanding or history. I'm prepared to have my views challenged it's one of the reasons I quite like this forum but I am disappointed that's all you can come out with.
I could equally level the same charge against you but I am really not interested in tit for tat I know more than you type of argy bargy. You're entitled to your opinion however wrong it is.
If all your countrymen think as you do then it seems the only way there will be peace will when both sides have exhausted themselves in warfare and people just won't fight any more. There'e right and wrong on both sides sooner or later you have to not fight.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/st ... 76,00.html
posted by golem
Then you demonstrate that you know little about the region, the people, or the realities of life here. Sorry, not a personal attack, simply a statement of fact,.
Quite right. I've never been there, closest I came was just before the outbreak of the yom kippur war and I've postponed it ever since. But just as you knowing so little of the realities of life in the UK and not being of our culture and incapable of understanding it still have an opinion about life in the UK I still have an opinion about the middle east. Now if you can last a different light on that then fine please do. If not then that's fine as well.
I don't anything on this forum personally. It's an opportunity to "talk" with someone with a whole different oulook on things. Be personal if you must, it will probably take me all of two seconds to decide not to worry about it. I do hope this doesn't escalate in to full scale warfare with iran and syria as well not least because there atre british troops in there as well thanks to TB and MP's with no backbone.
That is NOT what is taking place. We get BBC TV here and I am amazed at the distortion being presented by the reporters. I suppose that I shouldn’t be, such distortion of reality is quite common place from the BBC and much of your press
On the whole the BBC is fairly objective and tries to put both sides of an arguement, indeed it is a crucial part of it's charter that it be unbiased which is why our politicains don't like it either when it reports on their wrongdoings, they'r ehaving a great tiome just now with tony the liar. Both israeli and palestinians get their say, sometimes in the same programme or report and even get to talk to each other.
Just because it does not put your point of view alone does not make it biased. Could be you are not seeing the whole story in your media.
posted by golem
If you honestly believe that then you are totally mistaken and have no knowledge and certainly no understanding of history.
Just because someone does not share your opinion does not make them
a) wrong
b) ignorant.
I really don't care that you think me mistaken and have no knowledge or understanding or history. I'm prepared to have my views challenged it's one of the reasons I quite like this forum but I am disappointed that's all you can come out with.
I could equally level the same charge against you but I am really not interested in tit for tat I know more than you type of argy bargy. You're entitled to your opinion however wrong it is.
If all your countrymen think as you do then it seems the only way there will be peace will when both sides have exhausted themselves in warfare and people just won't fight any more. There'e right and wrong on both sides sooner or later you have to not fight.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/st ... 76,00.html
posted by golem
Then you demonstrate that you know little about the region, the people, or the realities of life here. Sorry, not a personal attack, simply a statement of fact,.
Quite right. I've never been there, closest I came was just before the outbreak of the yom kippur war and I've postponed it ever since. But just as you knowing so little of the realities of life in the UK and not being of our culture and incapable of understanding it still have an opinion about life in the UK I still have an opinion about the middle east. Now if you can last a different light on that then fine please do. If not then that's fine as well.
I don't anything on this forum personally. It's an opportunity to "talk" with someone with a whole different oulook on things. Be personal if you must, it will probably take me all of two seconds to decide not to worry about it. I do hope this doesn't escalate in to full scale warfare with iran and syria as well not least because there atre british troops in there as well thanks to TB and MP's with no backbone.
Israel and Lebannon
Rick has been watching the world events on CNN off and on all weekend. I then sit back and look at myself and wonder why I cannot just sit and watch everything on the news about it.
I am concerned about world events, but it it a bad thing that I cannot feel the proper outrage, or at least concern over what is happening to these people? It makes me feel or seem like a very cold or callous person, which I am not.
I just cannot sit transfixed to the television news shows to listen to every word, analyze every film, or read every word on the topic.
For those of you who have a vested interest in the events here, friends or family at risk, I do not, by any means want to minimize the tragedy. I am just as concerned for the lives of others as anyone.
But why do I not feel more?
I am concerned about world events, but it it a bad thing that I cannot feel the proper outrage, or at least concern over what is happening to these people? It makes me feel or seem like a very cold or callous person, which I am not.
I just cannot sit transfixed to the television news shows to listen to every word, analyze every film, or read every word on the topic.
For those of you who have a vested interest in the events here, friends or family at risk, I do not, by any means want to minimize the tragedy. I am just as concerned for the lives of others as anyone.
But why do I not feel more?
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Israel and Lebannon
American powers have not will to end the conflict? We have no right to end it.
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Israel and Lebannon
Israel is just satisfying the requirements of UN Security Council Resolution 1559, passed in 2004, that calls for the disarming of Hezbollah. I don't "support" the war; war is a horrible thing and should never be wished for, but killers like Hezbollah must be taken out. Outside of Syria, Iran, and some Shiite factions, I don't see a lot of muslim support for Hezbollah in this conflict. Many arabs, especially those in Lebanon, realize Israel is doing them a favor if successful in beheading Hezbollah.
Scrat says: Granted the world here is at fault (not only America) but once again we and Britain deserve the lions share of the blame
On the contrary, I think the lions share of the blame goes to what The American Thinker refers to as "apocalyptic muslim Jew-hatred".
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles ... le_id=5673
Scrat says: Granted the world here is at fault (not only America) but once again we and Britain deserve the lions share of the blame
On the contrary, I think the lions share of the blame goes to what The American Thinker refers to as "apocalyptic muslim Jew-hatred".
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles ... le_id=5673