Are the rules clear here?

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:08 am

I like a good debate.

I do not like debating with people who do not believe what they are espousing.

I think it is fair to attack one another if your point is so weak that you have no other choice... It makes the victor clear in the minds of the audience.

Cursing, IMO should be avoided.. unless cursing helps you to make a particular point.. (example.... 'READ THE ****ING BIBLE" could be used very constructively in the appropriate circumstance.. but it's not just something a person should say with no reason...)

Punctuation, and grammar errors ought to be left alone.. unless the punctuation or grammar error make the text un-intelligible.

Debating is a game.. much like chess. It's war.

I have a point of view.. and my point of view is the correct one. You probably share my point of view.. because if you don't you are probably wrong.. or I am wrong.. and I don't think I am wrong.

I am more than happy to join the game.. If there are rules though, I should know what they are before I begin to play.

Raymond

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:25 am

Oh.. I also don't like to debate with people who are dumb. It's like running a race with a one legged person. I don't really have any interest in humiliating anybody..

If dumb people choose to debate, should I dispatch them quickly, or humor them?

These are important questions before I can vigorously debate some of the topics that will surely come up.

Raymond

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:37 am

There is a debate forum here, if you like it for sport. From what I've seen so far you should review the rules of formal debate before you join up.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:37 am

if you see the garden as a school playground you cant go far wrong

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:17 am

koan wrote: There is a debate forum here, if you like it for sport. From what I've seen so far you should review the rules of formal debate before you join up.

Well.. Koan.. given your performance thus far.. I am sure you would like to not have to debate with me.. you are not very good at it.

If there are rules.. then I would like to follow them.

Personally.. I am a believer in free speech. I gather you are not.

Raymond

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:22 am

buttercup wrote: if you see the garden as a school playground you cant go far wrong

A certain amount of play is appropriate I think... I mean.. if this weren't fun for me, I wouldn't do it...

I see you are from Scotland.. I have been there.. Edinburgh and Holly loch.. beautiful.. the only place in the world that comes even close to being as beautiful as Oregon.

Raymond

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:23 am

Captain Ray wrote: Well.. Koan.. given your performance thus far.. I am sure you would like to not have to debate with me.. you are not very good at it.Good god, Ray, you are a shoddy little oik. What possible advantage is a post like that to either yourself, the thread, the board or the person you're abusing?

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:28 am

Captain Ray wrote: If there are rules.. then I would like to follow them.The principles we have used so far - and we've only recently tried the format, we're not very good at it yet - are at http://www.soton.ac.uk/~debating/training/tomsky.htm

The structure is outlined at http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... ostcount=1

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:29 am

spot wrote: Good god, Ray, you are a shoddy little oik. What possible advantage is a post like that to either yourself, the thread, the board or the person you're abusing?

You moderate this forum.. This forum is about debate.. How can you chastise me (I don't know what an "oik" is, but I'm pretty sure it's not a very nice thing to call somebody) and still consider this a debate forum?

I came to this particular part of the board because YOU, the moderator here set it aside for debate.. If you want to debate.. then lets get to it.

I havn't abused anybody.. If I don't think somebody is very good at arguing a particular point, it seems fair to me to point that out.

Raymond

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:38 am

Captain Ray wrote: You moderate this forum.. This forum is about debate.. How can you chastise me (I don't know what an "oik" is, but I'm pretty sure it's not a very nice thing to call somebody) and still consider this a debate forum? I'm drawing attention to the fact that I dislike your tone. Neither debate nor good breeding has any place for personal observations of that sort. By all means read at the two URLs I gave you, and if you'd like to propose a topic go ahead with that as well. You'll need to find exactly one supporter and two dissenters to progress to the debate itself.

oik, n.: An uncouth, loutish, uneducated, or obnoxious person; a yob (esp. with connotations of lower-class origin).

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:42 am

I have read your terms.. and I find them unacceptable.

The rules you have set forth might work well at a town hall meeting, but not in a way that promotes the free exchange of ideas.

I will avoid this forum if those rules are what you plan on sticking with.

I choose to dissent, when dissent is necessary. I can't just tell somebody they are wrong without telling them they are wrong...

that's the way the U.N. does it.. it's not the way Americans do it..

I am an American..

I will avoid your part of the board, unless you choose to change your rules... which you have no obligation to do..

Raymond

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:03 am

Happy happy joy joy.

The style you are looking for is to be found in the discussion forums. This area is for formal debate.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:04 am

anybody want to play skipping ropes?

Attached files

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:09 am

spot wrote: Happy happy joy joy.

The style you are looking for is to be found in the discussion forums. This area is for formal debate.

I accept that.. at least in your forum you are honest enough to admit that... Sorry I don't fit in.

Raymond

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:14 am

takes all kinds to make a forum raymond & most threads no matter what the subject tend to go off on tangents :-6

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:32 am

buttercup wrote: takes all kinds to make a forum raymond & most threads no matter what the subject tend to go off on tangents :-6

Thanks Buttercup..

I was really looking forward to arguing the point.. but a sure sign of the guy who has no argument is to avoid the argument at any cost.. but don't you think that everyone else will notice that he lacks an argument? He doesn't care.. liberals are all like this.. that's why I dislike them so much.

this really has to be my last post here.. The moderator has said that he will not allow my freedom of speech.. and I don't want to get banned from the rest of the board.. so I bid you a'deou...

Raymond

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:39 am

Captain Ray wrote: Well.. Koan.. given your performance thus far.. I am sure you would like to not have to debate with me.. you are not very good at it.

I find Koan to be one of best and most well-informed people in the Garden. Her posts are always toughtful and intelligent.

You, sir, are a pot stirrer. And kind of a troublemaker.

To each his own, I guess

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:46 am

Diuretic wrote: "toughtful" - I like that word, it signifies a sort of mental toughness linked with reflection. It should be in a dictionary. :-6She tweeps up on people too.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:04 am

cherandbuster wrote: I find Koan to be one of best and most well-informed people in the Garden. Her posts are always toughtful and intelligent.

You, sir, are a pot stirrer. And kind of a troublemaker.

To each his own, I guess

I thought that that was what Spot said - in his own inimmitable fashion of course :wah:

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:40 am

Diuretic wrote: "toughtful" - I like that word, it signifies a sort of mental toughness linked with reflection. It should be in a dictionary. :-6

Thanks for bailing me out of a misspelling, my friend!

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:45 am

Bryn Mawr wrote: I thought that that was what Spot said - in his own inimmitable fashion of course :wah:

Yes indeed! We love our Spot:-4

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:10 am

boy oh boy we've had a few missiles fired in the garden this week folks, never can figure out just exactly what these people want, so anyway what was i saying about butter

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:15 am

Something about putting it in the freezer or something like that...........

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:18 am

oh yeah that was it chons, ok off to put it in now, if i defrost it on monday & it tastes weird you'll be hearing all about it :p

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:22 am

That reminded me of the old 'fridges you had to defrost every week! I'm glad not to do that chore anymore!

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:38 am

why did the old fridges have to be defrosted every week & they dont have to now?

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:53 am

Captain Ray, I like what you have to say.

You may find, getting to know me, that I do not participate, often, in many of the really intense debates, as on some current events, politics, some religeon. Mainly because I do not trust myself to express myself well enough to let people understand what I am thinking. I like the quote "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than speak up and remove all doubt.

So, sometimes I like to just sit here, read and enjoy what others have to say. Makes me feel smart at least, even if I do not always come across as such.

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:35 pm

Marie5656 wrote: Captain Ray, I like what you have to say.

You may find, getting to know me, that I do not participate, often, in many of the really intense debates, as on some current events, politics, some religeon. Mainly because I do not trust myself to express myself well enough to let people understand what I am thinking. I like the quote "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than speak up and remove all doubt.

So, sometimes I like to just sit here, read and enjoy what others have to say. Makes me feel smart at least, even if I do not always come across as such.

I am not a quiet kind of person

It irks me when liberal fools who are considered "bright" by there liberal brethren can't make a valid point. Does it occur to anybody besides me that these people are just stupid?

Oh.. I know.. I said stupid.. I meant it..

If they had any intelligent argument to give, they would embrace people like me.. but they don't.. Why is that?

Raymond

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:53 pm

There's those who are intelligent and then there's those who have to tell others how intelligent they are.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:15 pm

Peg wrote: There's those who are intelligent and then there's those who have to tell others how intelligent they are.
Nice zinger there, Peg!! :yh_clap :yh_clap

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:15 pm

Captain Ray wrote: If they had any intelligent argument to give, they would embrace people like me.. but they don't.. Why is that?Raymond, this debating area was specifically set up with a single purpose, to post in accordance with the Westcliff Debate protocol which I showed you. That's why they're here. ForumGarden has dozens of discussion areas in which you can debate with anyone prepared to tolerate you to your heart's content. Alternatively, if you want to engage anyone here on any topic, by all means proceed. Why you're wasting breath with pointless challenges that can't be fulfilled in this space is puzzling me.

Be embraced, follow the local rules. Go be embraced elsewhere on the board with less formal rules. Either's fine. Timewasting at us with waffle like "these people are just stupid" is a disfiguring irritant which I expect I'll tidy up eventually.

Erinna1112 · Post by **Erinna1112** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:27 pm

Ad hominem attacks are unacceptable, such as telling someone they aren't very good at debating. Don't attack the person; you can debate - and, by the way, do so much more constructively - if you disagree with what they have to say rather than who they are.

For example, if I say I'm pro-choice and you call me a leftist pinko baby-killer, that's bad. If you point out that abortions are medically unsafe, I might disagree with you, but you're not attacking me personally, just my point of view.

DISCLAIMER - please DO NOT take the preceeding paragraph as an invitation to debate abortion. It was merely an example.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:32 pm

Diuretic wrote: . . . so I find it useful to avoid formal debate which . . . is really just an intellectual wank anyway

he said *wank*! **gasp** hehehe :yh_rotfl

I LIKE you! You're funny! :wah:

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:23 pm

Captain Ray wrote: I am not a quiet kind of person

It irks me when liberal fools who are considered "bright" by there liberal brethren can't make a valid point. Does it occur to anybody besides me that these people are just stupid?

Oh.. I know.. I said stupid.. I meant it..

If they had any intelligent argument to give, they would embrace people like me.. but they don't.. Why is that?

Raymond

OK, if I have misunderstood, I am sorry, but why do I get the feeling I was just slammed, for saying I do not participate much?

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:31 pm

Marie5656 wrote: OK, if I have misunderstood, I am sorry, but why do I get the feeling I was just slammed, for saying I do not participate much?The last person you want to become upset by is someone so divorced from the social cohesion of the site, Marie. There's people here who care and others who walk by. You know there's people here who enjoy hearing what you say. Being slammed from the periphery can only hurt if you let it.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:36 pm

Clancy wrote: Oh, BTW, after reading this thread, this is me being polite.P'raps you'd show him what your heid's for, Jock. It's a wee while since I saw that demonstrated. In The Bell outside King's Cross, now I think about it, and that's been shut a few years.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:54 pm

spot wrote: The last person you want to become upset by is someone so divorced from the social cohesion of the site, Marie. There's people here who care and others who walk by. You know there's people here who enjoy hearing what you say. Being slammed from the periphery can only hurt if you let it.
VERY well put, Spot. Marie, don't let this 'tard get to you at all. He's obviously so caught up in how great he is, he doesn't actually realize what he's saying. Don't let the little twerp bother you.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:03 pm

flopstock wrote: Not to worry marie... come play in the arcade with me while the folks sort this heathen out..

Gotta have his kind in the garden from time to time..serves as fertilizer, don't ya know, girl?:D

May just do that Flop..I have some of your high scores to creep up upon. :sneaky:

Post by **spot** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:38 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: If you're up Clancy's nose, you're up mine too... Cavernous and snotty. I should know, I've poked around often enough.