Is it something that comes easy for you ? Or is it something that you just cant do ?
If you do forgive, what happens ? What I mean is how do you personally benefit from it ?
Does it make you stronger ? Or does it make you feel like you lost ?
Who have you forgiven ? You dont have to say for what, Im more interested in how it may have helped you.
Forgiveness
Forgiveness
I AM AWESOME MAN
Forgiveness
It would depend on what needs to be forgiven. Some things are easy to forgive. While others are not. Betrayal and unfaithfulness lead to a total loss of respect for that person. Something said in a bad mood or anger could be forgiven if the person seems truly repentant. I can forgive a mean remark---put a betrayal, I could never really forget. If I can't trust someone, I can't respect them. If I can't respect them, I don't really want them to be a part of my life.
Laughter is the shortest distance
between two people. Hugo
And the song, from beginning to end,
I found again in the heart of a friend. Longfellow
between two people. Hugo
And the song, from beginning to end,
I found again in the heart of a friend. Longfellow
Forgiveness
Nomad wrote: Is it something that comes easy for you ? Or is it something that you just cant do ?
If you do forgive, what happens ? What I mean is how do you personally benefit from it ?
Does it make you stronger ? Or does it make you feel like you lost ?
Who have you forgiven ? You dont have to say for what, Im more interested in how it may have helped you.
With me it's less forgiveness as an inabilliity to hold a grudge - too poor a memory and I guess my hearts not in it.
I don't suppose there's anything bad enough happened to me to require much forgiveness in the first place - not that hasn't been resolved to my satisfaction.
Worst is probably being conned out of some money by a Did - more fool me. Tracked him down at his next "job" but he did another runner and left the area completely. Damn all I could do after the event and beating myself up would do no good so learn and move on.
If you do forgive, what happens ? What I mean is how do you personally benefit from it ?
Does it make you stronger ? Or does it make you feel like you lost ?
Who have you forgiven ? You dont have to say for what, Im more interested in how it may have helped you.
With me it's less forgiveness as an inabilliity to hold a grudge - too poor a memory and I guess my hearts not in it.
I don't suppose there's anything bad enough happened to me to require much forgiveness in the first place - not that hasn't been resolved to my satisfaction.
Worst is probably being conned out of some money by a Did - more fool me. Tracked him down at his next "job" but he did another runner and left the area completely. Damn all I could do after the event and beating myself up would do no good so learn and move on.
Forgiveness
Nomad wrote: Is it something that comes easy for you ? Or is it something that you just cant do ?
If you do forgive, what happens ? What I mean is how do you personally benefit from it ?
Does it make you stronger ? Or does it make you feel like you lost ?
Who have you forgiven ? You dont have to say for what, Im more interested in how it may have helped you.
Oh yes Nomad.. I am very good at forgiveness. It comes very easy to me. The problem is that when you forgive repeat offenders over and over again. they never pay the consequences for their behavior. They never examine their own souls.... and they take the meek down a black hole with them.I have forgiven husbands who turned their back on their children, Friends who have stolen from me... strangers who have presumed I am guilty of something I was innocent of. But Ill tell you who I cant forgive... Creatures who get up in the morning plotting to demean or shame others, with the intent of boosting their own low self esteem. That saying that the meek shall inherit the earth is a ridiculous outlook. The formula we need to adopt nowdays is that the strong need to stand up for the meek. And forgiveness needs to be reserved for those who feel genuine remorse.
If you do forgive, what happens ? What I mean is how do you personally benefit from it ?
Does it make you stronger ? Or does it make you feel like you lost ?
Who have you forgiven ? You dont have to say for what, Im more interested in how it may have helped you.
Oh yes Nomad.. I am very good at forgiveness. It comes very easy to me. The problem is that when you forgive repeat offenders over and over again. they never pay the consequences for their behavior. They never examine their own souls.... and they take the meek down a black hole with them.I have forgiven husbands who turned their back on their children, Friends who have stolen from me... strangers who have presumed I am guilty of something I was innocent of. But Ill tell you who I cant forgive... Creatures who get up in the morning plotting to demean or shame others, with the intent of boosting their own low self esteem. That saying that the meek shall inherit the earth is a ridiculous outlook. The formula we need to adopt nowdays is that the strong need to stand up for the meek. And forgiveness needs to be reserved for those who feel genuine remorse.
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif][/FONT]
Forgiveness
Forgiveness, for me, doesn't mean forgetting past injuries or pretending some bad thing did not happen. It doesn't take the place of grieving for loss, requiring restitution or a grovelling apology. What it does mean is that you've reached a stage where all that can practically be done has been done. Becoming all bitter and twisted and using up energy pursuing the person who has wronged you, starts to work backwards and where you were once harmed, you are now doubly harmed. There has to be a time when you say - okay. Closure time. And this for me means forgiveness, putting the whole thing down and walking away. Moving on. Strength not weakness.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Forgiveness
AussiePam wrote: Forgiveness, for me, doesn't mean forgetting past injuries or pretending some bad thing did not happen. It doesn't take the place of grieving for loss, requiring restitution or a grovelling apology. What it does mean is that you've reached a stage where all that can practically be done has been done. Becoming all bitter and twisted and using up energy pursuing the person who has wronged you, starts to work backwards and where you were once harmed, you are now doubly harmed. There has to be a time when you say - okay. Closure time. And this for me means forgiveness, putting the whole thing down and walking away. Moving on. Strength not weakness.
Yes.
Yes.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Forgiveness
It doesn't take the place of grieving for loss, requiring restitution or a grovelling apology.
I expressed that bit badly.. I meant you can still grieve for loss and should go after restitution where possible. But forgiveness for me does not require a grovelling apology or the humiliation of the person who wronged you - though hey, sometimes that can feel bloody good. Grin.
I expressed that bit badly.. I meant you can still grieve for loss and should go after restitution where possible. But forgiveness for me does not require a grovelling apology or the humiliation of the person who wronged you - though hey, sometimes that can feel bloody good. Grin.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Forgiveness
AussiePam wrote: It doesn't take the place of grieving for loss, requiring restitution or a grovelling apology.
I expressed that bit badly.. I meant you can still grieve for loss and should go after restitution where possible. But forgiveness for me does not require a grovelling apology or the humiliation of the person who wronged you - though hey, sometimes that can feel bloody good. Grin.
Whatever works Oz girl.
I expressed that bit badly.. I meant you can still grieve for loss and should go after restitution where possible. But forgiveness for me does not require a grovelling apology or the humiliation of the person who wronged you - though hey, sometimes that can feel bloody good. Grin.
Whatever works Oz girl.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Forgiveness
I stayed out of the thread which begat this thread. Deliberately. But want to say something here. (But don't intend to debate it).
I'd only recently joined FG when the split occurred. It was at a time when I needed the newfound interaction very much and had been overjoyed to discover wonderful people here and some great friendships were just beginning. I don't think it's overdramatic to say that I was shocked, distressed, bewildered when my home was broken and my friends divided. I felt personally wounded.
I now look at it a bit differently.
For me FG is like the open sea - you take your chances. It can be exhilirating, thrilling, adventurous, unpredictable, scary, and relentlessly dangerous.
If some people prefer a quiet cove where the weather conditions are settled, the waves manageable, and the coast guard is on hand, who can blame them. It's something even the most hardened seafarer relishes at times too. And if they choose to put in nets to make swimming safer - again who can really blame them.
For myself, it's my nature to take my chances on the open sea, but sometimes when the wind blows hard I head for port and get cosy, meet up with old friends etc. They know my feelings on this whole situation and still make me welcome.
Anyway - I've said enough. Grin. I think we have to all accept that what's done is done and isn't going to be undone. Take a positive view. And move on!!!
I'd only recently joined FG when the split occurred. It was at a time when I needed the newfound interaction very much and had been overjoyed to discover wonderful people here and some great friendships were just beginning. I don't think it's overdramatic to say that I was shocked, distressed, bewildered when my home was broken and my friends divided. I felt personally wounded.
I now look at it a bit differently.
For me FG is like the open sea - you take your chances. It can be exhilirating, thrilling, adventurous, unpredictable, scary, and relentlessly dangerous.
If some people prefer a quiet cove where the weather conditions are settled, the waves manageable, and the coast guard is on hand, who can blame them. It's something even the most hardened seafarer relishes at times too. And if they choose to put in nets to make swimming safer - again who can really blame them.
For myself, it's my nature to take my chances on the open sea, but sometimes when the wind blows hard I head for port and get cosy, meet up with old friends etc. They know my feelings on this whole situation and still make me welcome.
Anyway - I've said enough. Grin. I think we have to all accept that what's done is done and isn't going to be undone. Take a positive view. And move on!!!
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Forgiveness
AussiePam wrote: I stayed out of the thread which begat this thread. Deliberately. But want to say something here. (But don't intend to debate it).
I'd only recently joined FG when the split occurred. It was at a time when I needed the newfound interaction very much and had been overjoyed to discover wonderful people here and some great friendships were just beginning. I don't think it's overdramatic to say that I was shocked, distressed, bewildered when my home was broken and my friends divided. I felt personally wounded.
I now look at it a bit differently.
For me FG is like the open sea - you take your chances. It can be exhilirating, thrilling, adventurous, unpredictable, scary, and relentlessly dangerous.
If some people prefer a quiet cove where the weather conditions are settled, the waves manageable, and the coast guard is on hand, who can blame them. It's something even the most hardened seafarer relishes at times too. And if they choose to put in nets to make swimming safer - again who can really blame them.
For myself, it's my nature to take my chances on the open sea, but sometimes when the wind blows hard I head for port and get cosy, meet up with old friends etc. They know my feelings on this whole situation and still make me welcome.
Anyway - I've said enough. Grin. I think we have to all accept that what's done is done and isn't going to be undone. Take a positive view. And move on!!!
Theres a whole sea thing going on here. Are you a piratette ?
I'd only recently joined FG when the split occurred. It was at a time when I needed the newfound interaction very much and had been overjoyed to discover wonderful people here and some great friendships were just beginning. I don't think it's overdramatic to say that I was shocked, distressed, bewildered when my home was broken and my friends divided. I felt personally wounded.
I now look at it a bit differently.
For me FG is like the open sea - you take your chances. It can be exhilirating, thrilling, adventurous, unpredictable, scary, and relentlessly dangerous.
If some people prefer a quiet cove where the weather conditions are settled, the waves manageable, and the coast guard is on hand, who can blame them. It's something even the most hardened seafarer relishes at times too. And if they choose to put in nets to make swimming safer - again who can really blame them.
For myself, it's my nature to take my chances on the open sea, but sometimes when the wind blows hard I head for port and get cosy, meet up with old friends etc. They know my feelings on this whole situation and still make me welcome.
Anyway - I've said enough. Grin. I think we have to all accept that what's done is done and isn't going to be undone. Take a positive view. And move on!!!
Theres a whole sea thing going on here. Are you a piratette ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
-
chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Forgiveness
Forgiveness-it depends for what it is, dear Nomad.
For things here among friends, it is easy to forgive and forget. To forget is best.
For personal things-it is harder, because you deal with them in real life. Sometimes on a daily basis, and you have to remind yourself the past is the past.
It is a growing experience for the soul.
For things here among friends, it is easy to forgive and forget. To forget is best.
For personal things-it is harder, because you deal with them in real life. Sometimes on a daily basis, and you have to remind yourself the past is the past.
It is a growing experience for the soul.
Forgiveness
chonsigirl wrote: Forgiveness-it depends for what it is, dear Nomad.
For things here among friends, it is easy to forgive and forget. To forget is best.
For personal things-it is harder, because you deal with them in real life. Sometimes on a daily basis, and you have to remind yourself the past is the past.
It is a growing experience for the soul.
Brilliant. I just couldnt agree with you more. Very good.
For things here among friends, it is easy to forgive and forget. To forget is best.
For personal things-it is harder, because you deal with them in real life. Sometimes on a daily basis, and you have to remind yourself the past is the past.
It is a growing experience for the soul.
Brilliant. I just couldnt agree with you more. Very good.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Forgiveness
Its all about integrity man.
Besides, forgiveness is something thats stronger than your control.....you either forgive someone or you dont, therefore, its impossible to signify one as being the victor, as it marks a mutual state of any wrong doing being eliminated for the sake of pastures new -- IMO.
Besides, forgiveness is something thats stronger than your control.....you either forgive someone or you dont, therefore, its impossible to signify one as being the victor, as it marks a mutual state of any wrong doing being eliminated for the sake of pastures new -- IMO.
Forgiveness
Okay, so jump right in...
First off, this is a terrific topic. Forgiveness, to me, means not only letting go, but embracing the general good that we, essentially, must choose to see. One thing I always consider, when forgiveness is called for, is that I always examine my own role in whatever the situation may be. Did I play a part? Were my feelings hurt based on my own issues? etc. In addition, when it is a betrayal or deeper hurt, sometimes forgiveness is the force that frees me from the bondage of resentment, which for me creates turmoil in my own life, as anger is not something I hold onto...I can't. Basically, forgiveness is for the benefit of the forgiver, moreso than for the benefit of the forgivee...because once you truly forgive, once you truly surrender to that, a weight is lifted, and you've simply taken one more step toward finding that higher ground, standard, the better you, in other words.
First off, this is a terrific topic. Forgiveness, to me, means not only letting go, but embracing the general good that we, essentially, must choose to see. One thing I always consider, when forgiveness is called for, is that I always examine my own role in whatever the situation may be. Did I play a part? Were my feelings hurt based on my own issues? etc. In addition, when it is a betrayal or deeper hurt, sometimes forgiveness is the force that frees me from the bondage of resentment, which for me creates turmoil in my own life, as anger is not something I hold onto...I can't. Basically, forgiveness is for the benefit of the forgiver, moreso than for the benefit of the forgivee...because once you truly forgive, once you truly surrender to that, a weight is lifted, and you've simply taken one more step toward finding that higher ground, standard, the better you, in other words.
Forgiveness
Clancy wrote: Seeing a Norman Wisdom film dubbed into French and hearing him scream “Monsieur Grimsdaleâ€
.....that, I don't forgive !
And how !
.....that, I don't forgive !
And how !
I AM AWESOME MAN
Forgiveness
Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself. It is not something you do FOR someone else. It is not complicated. It is simple. Simply identify the situation to be forgiven and ask yourself: "Am I willing to waste my energy further on this matter?" If the answer is "No," then that's it! All is forgiven. 
Works well for me..
Works well for me..ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
Forgiveness
I may forgive,
But i never forget.
But i never forget.
Forgiveness
abbey wrote: I may forgive,
But i never forget.
As long as you move on and don't allow the incident to retain any importance in your life then remembering is protection against repeat offenders.
But move on you must.
But i never forget.
As long as you move on and don't allow the incident to retain any importance in your life then remembering is protection against repeat offenders.
But move on you must.
Forgiveness
AussiePam wrote: I stayed out of the thread which begat this thread. Deliberately. But want to say something here. (But don't intend to debate it).
I'd only recently joined FG when the split occurred. It was at a time when I needed the newfound interaction very much and had been overjoyed to discover wonderful people here and some great friendships were just beginning. I don't think it's overdramatic to say that I was shocked, distressed, bewildered when my home was broken and my friends divided. I felt personally wounded.
I now look at it a bit differently.
For me FG is like the open sea - you take your chances. It can be exhilirating, thrilling, adventurous, unpredictable, scary, and relentlessly dangerous.
If some people prefer a quiet cove where the weather conditions are settled, the waves manageable, and the coast guard is on hand, who can blame them. It's something even the most hardened seafarer relishes at times too. And if they choose to put in nets to make swimming safer - again who can really blame them.
For myself, it's my nature to take my chances on the open sea, but sometimes when the wind blows hard I head for port and get cosy, meet up with old friends etc. They know my feelings on this whole situation and still make me welcome.
Anyway - I've said enough. Grin. I think we have to all accept that what's done is done and isn't going to be undone. Take a positive view. And move on!!!
Pam, this is an excellent description of 'life' and how different people cope with it.
I have a very trusting nature (or used to have) and cruel words, deeds cut me to my core. My healing process is normally a solitary one and as hard as I try, I never regain my former feelings for the person who has hurt me. At work I continue to be a professional and work on as normal but keep my distance on a 'personal' level. 2 people have hurt me deeply within my family...One I won't have to worry about for much longer and I have long ago put aside the bitterness, the other was my mother. I came to terms with 'our' problem only a few years ago and I DID forgive her because I understood her better after much thought and deliberation.
So......everyone does, sais minor things that require forgiveness, and these things are easy to resolve.
If the hurt is deep it is harder .... for me anyway. I find it impossible to shrug it off and feel a deep sense of disappointment that a)I have left my self open to be hurt, and b) that someone I trusted, loved or respected has hurt me.
What did I learn from my experience with my Mum ??? Once I'd gone through the process of understanding and forgiveness I felt relief ... I smile when I think of her, I don't cringe now when people say I look like her and we are reconciled in spirit.
I can't envisage any occasion when I would not forgive my children for something they said or did (apart from murder, abuse, etc)....they are so precious to me....I would fight tooth and nail to keep us all on an even keel....
If someone 'gets up my nose' in cyber land, I just go into 'frigid' mode for a while and then bounce back..
I'd only recently joined FG when the split occurred. It was at a time when I needed the newfound interaction very much and had been overjoyed to discover wonderful people here and some great friendships were just beginning. I don't think it's overdramatic to say that I was shocked, distressed, bewildered when my home was broken and my friends divided. I felt personally wounded.
I now look at it a bit differently.
For me FG is like the open sea - you take your chances. It can be exhilirating, thrilling, adventurous, unpredictable, scary, and relentlessly dangerous.
If some people prefer a quiet cove where the weather conditions are settled, the waves manageable, and the coast guard is on hand, who can blame them. It's something even the most hardened seafarer relishes at times too. And if they choose to put in nets to make swimming safer - again who can really blame them.
For myself, it's my nature to take my chances on the open sea, but sometimes when the wind blows hard I head for port and get cosy, meet up with old friends etc. They know my feelings on this whole situation and still make me welcome.
Anyway - I've said enough. Grin. I think we have to all accept that what's done is done and isn't going to be undone. Take a positive view. And move on!!!
Pam, this is an excellent description of 'life' and how different people cope with it.
I have a very trusting nature (or used to have) and cruel words, deeds cut me to my core. My healing process is normally a solitary one and as hard as I try, I never regain my former feelings for the person who has hurt me. At work I continue to be a professional and work on as normal but keep my distance on a 'personal' level. 2 people have hurt me deeply within my family...One I won't have to worry about for much longer and I have long ago put aside the bitterness, the other was my mother. I came to terms with 'our' problem only a few years ago and I DID forgive her because I understood her better after much thought and deliberation.
So......everyone does, sais minor things that require forgiveness, and these things are easy to resolve.
If the hurt is deep it is harder .... for me anyway. I find it impossible to shrug it off and feel a deep sense of disappointment that a)I have left my self open to be hurt, and b) that someone I trusted, loved or respected has hurt me.
What did I learn from my experience with my Mum ??? Once I'd gone through the process of understanding and forgiveness I felt relief ... I smile when I think of her, I don't cringe now when people say I look like her and we are reconciled in spirit.
I can't envisage any occasion when I would not forgive my children for something they said or did (apart from murder, abuse, etc)....they are so precious to me....I would fight tooth and nail to keep us all on an even keel....
If someone 'gets up my nose' in cyber land, I just go into 'frigid' mode for a while and then bounce back..
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
Forgiveness
I forgive very little and even that mostly constrained to my family members or where a wrong has been unintentional but even then I don't automatically "write it off".
I may choose not to seek revenge for a wrong if it suits me or I thgink it an appropriate course of action, but otherwise generally hold to the concept of “don’t get upset, get evenâ€. There have been a few times in the past where it has taken quite literally years to achieve, but achieve it I did.
In any case those few things that I do forgive, I seldom if ever forget.
I may choose not to seek revenge for a wrong if it suits me or I thgink it an appropriate course of action, but otherwise generally hold to the concept of “don’t get upset, get evenâ€. There have been a few times in the past where it has taken quite literally years to achieve, but achieve it I did.
In any case those few things that I do forgive, I seldom if ever forget.
Forgiveness
I can forgive a lot of things. Some things are harder to forgive than other things. Forgiveness for me, doesn't happen overnight. The words "I'm sorry" are meaningless. Don't tell me, show me. If you lie to me or steal from me, don't expect foregiveness just because you apologized. Don't try turning it around that you are the victim. In time, forgiveness may come, but trust would take a whole lot longer.
Forgiveness
SnoozeControl wrote: Gee, you look nice today Golem! Have I told you how much I like and admire you? *praying to god that I never p*ss Golem off*
I think unbending is the term you're looking for
Must be one helluva way to live your life.
I think unbending is the term you're looking for
Must be one helluva way to live your life.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Forgiveness
I generally forgive far too easily... long before I receive a sincere apology. I'm finding lately that people take it as a sign of weakness and try to take my friendship for granted.
sad.
I'm doing my damnedest not to allow my skin to thicken, because I may miss some really great stuff.
sad.
I'm doing my damnedest not to allow my skin to thicken, because I may miss some really great stuff.
Forgiveness
Accountable wrote: I generally forgive far too easily... long before I receive a sincere apology. I'm finding lately that people take it as a sign of weakness and try to take my friendship for granted.
sad.
I'm doing my damnedest not to allow my skin to thicken, because I may miss some really great stuff.
Forgiving someone does ont weaken you - carrying a grudge, hating and demanding vengence does by damaging your psyche
sad.
I'm doing my damnedest not to allow my skin to thicken, because I may miss some really great stuff.
Forgiving someone does ont weaken you - carrying a grudge, hating and demanding vengence does by damaging your psyche
Forgiveness
SnoozeControl wrote: Gee, you look nice today Golem! Have I told you how much I like and admire you? *praying to god that I never p*ss Golem off*
...sorry...just had to > :yh_rotfl
snooze...
...sorry...just had to > :yh_rotfl
snooze...
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
Forgiveness
Accountable wrote: I generally forgive far too easily... long before I receive a sincere apology. I'm finding lately that people take it as a sign of weakness and try to take my friendship for granted.
sad.
I'm doing my damnedest not to allow my skin to thicken, because I may miss some really great stuff.
Thick skin wouldn't suit you....who wants to hug a Rhino anyway....
Stay as you are...the ability to forgive is not a weakness.
sad.
I'm doing my damnedest not to allow my skin to thicken, because I may miss some really great stuff.
Thick skin wouldn't suit you....who wants to hug a Rhino anyway....
Stay as you are...the ability to forgive is not a weakness.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
Forgiveness
SnoozeControl wrote: (One of) my problem(s) is that I enjoy needling people... I don't think it's so much being vengeful as being an annoying little mosquito. Apparently some of my comments have disturbed the equinamity of FG (to the point of receiving some pretty vicious comments) and for that I hope to receive forgiveness.
Sorry guys!
Yes
Yes
Maybe.......but .....
You're funny, interesting and a bunch of other stuff.
We just need more..........handshakes...........and hugs..........around here
Sorry guys!
Yes
Yes
Maybe.......but .....
You're funny, interesting and a bunch of other stuff.
We just need more..........handshakes...........and hugs..........around here
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
Forgiveness
AussiePam wrote: Is that a mafia handshake, Bez???
I 'bloomin' hope not Pam !!!
I 'bloomin' hope not Pam !!!
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
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cherandbuster
- Posts: 8594
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 11:33 am
Forgiveness
Mystery wrote: Forgiveness, to me, means not only letting go, but embracing the general good that we, essentially, must choose to see. One thing I always consider, when forgiveness is called for, is that I always examine my own role in whatever the situation may be. Did I play a part? Were my feelings hurt based on my own issues? etc. In addition, when it is a betrayal or deeper hurt, sometimes forgiveness is the force that frees me from the bondage of resentment, which for me creates turmoil in my own life, as anger is not something I hold onto...I can't. Basically, forgiveness is for the benefit of the forgiver, moreso than for the benefit of the forgivee...because once you truly forgive, once you truly surrender to that, a weight is lifted, and you've simply taken one more step toward finding that higher ground, standard, the better you, in other words.
Mystery, I really like the way you express yourself on this issue. I agree completely. It takes some maturity to get to that point.
Becoming older and wiser is a good thing.
Mystery, I really like the way you express yourself on this issue. I agree completely. It takes some maturity to get to that point.
Becoming older and wiser is a good thing.
Live Life with
PASSION!:guitarist
PASSION!:guitarist
Forgiveness
I'm still an immature person when it comes to forgiveness. In my 28 years on this planet, I've been hurt by both strangers and those close to me. I usually just ignore the fact I've been hurt and the person responsible for hurting me. Lately though I've learned it's easier to at least try to make amends and work toward rebuilding some sort of relationship. But I'm still a stubborn person, and the words "I'm sorry" are worthless to me because some can easily mutter it and not be sincere.
yes I've still got lots of growing up to do.
yes I've still got lots of growing up to do.
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
Forgiveness
I read something very interesting in a book on healing. The author states that forgiveness can only work if the person who wronged you a)admits they wronged you and b)makes an effort to not do it again.
When people tell you to forgive they usually don't stop to consider these points. Where these two factors exist then forgiveness is the best response.
When people tell you to forgive they usually don't stop to consider these points. Where these two factors exist then forgiveness is the best response.
Forgiveness
CARLA wrote: Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself. It is not something you do FOR someone else. It is not complicated. It is simple. Simply identify the situation to be forgiven and ask yourself: "Am I willing to waste my energy further on this matter?" If the answer is "No," then that's it! All is forgiven. Works well for me..
Very lovely. But how does this jibe with:
CARLA wrote: I also think that we keep those we sentence to death on death row for decades with appeal after appeal. All of these evil people should be put to death as quick as possible in my opinion we sentenced them carry it out.
What about their victims they weren't given any chances or appeals they died at the hand of these beasts. "An eye for an eye" I will go so far as saying they should be killed in the same manner as they killed their victims. But you see I'm not very tolerant of beasts who pray on the innocent. I don't think evil changes they are evil right to the bone put them out of their misery and save us from ever having to deal with their crimes again.. I'm sorry they may have been a victim of evil in their lives as well but they can't be cured or saved they will kill again and again and again...
Since the poster doesn't actually know the people of whom she speaks in the second quote, and uses the expression "an eye for an eye" with apparent ease, perhaps it is harder to follow our own ideals. Of course the actual offense is to be taken into account, some being worse than others, but I think it is hard to generalize the rules of forgiveness.
since the poster also wrote
CARLA wrote: OK I'm ducking because I know there will be incoming on my views.. I am presuming she won't mind my using it as an example.
Works well for me..Very lovely. But how does this jibe with:
CARLA wrote: I also think that we keep those we sentence to death on death row for decades with appeal after appeal. All of these evil people should be put to death as quick as possible in my opinion we sentenced them carry it out.
What about their victims they weren't given any chances or appeals they died at the hand of these beasts. "An eye for an eye" I will go so far as saying they should be killed in the same manner as they killed their victims. But you see I'm not very tolerant of beasts who pray on the innocent. I don't think evil changes they are evil right to the bone put them out of their misery and save us from ever having to deal with their crimes again.. I'm sorry they may have been a victim of evil in their lives as well but they can't be cured or saved they will kill again and again and again...
Since the poster doesn't actually know the people of whom she speaks in the second quote, and uses the expression "an eye for an eye" with apparent ease, perhaps it is harder to follow our own ideals. Of course the actual offense is to be taken into account, some being worse than others, but I think it is hard to generalize the rules of forgiveness.
since the poster also wrote
CARLA wrote: OK I'm ducking because I know there will be incoming on my views.. I am presuming she won't mind my using it as an example.
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cherandbuster
- Posts: 8594
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 11:33 am
Forgiveness
Accountable wrote: I'm doing my damnedest not to allow my skin to thicken, because I may miss some really great stuff.
Acc, my theory as well. I like the way you put it!
I would rather believe in others and be occasionally disappointed . . . than be cynical about others and be occasionally right. It's how I choose to live my life.
Acc, my theory as well. I like the way you put it!
I would rather believe in others and be occasionally disappointed . . . than be cynical about others and be occasionally right. It's how I choose to live my life.
Live Life with
PASSION!:guitarist
PASSION!:guitarist
Forgiveness
koan wrote: I read something very interesting in a book on healing. The author states that forgiveness can only work if the person who wronged you a)admits they wronged you and b)makes an effort to not do it again.
When people tell you to forgive they usually don't stop to consider these points. Where these two factors exist then forgiveness is the best response.
If we assume that all reasonable efforts have been made to get the person brought to justice / to admit they've acted badly, apologise and make amends depending on the severity of the wrong and that these efforts have failed.
What then, are the alternatives to forgiving someone who has wronged you?
You can hate them for the wrong they've done. This will do you more harm than it will them.
You can spend you time trying to get even - extracting vengence. More satisfying in the short term but just as damaging in the long term. If you succeed then you're likely to be punished yourself and if you don't then it takes over your life and twists it.
You can try to forget about it. Many try but few succeed. It usually becomes a brooding sense of injustice that only serves to weaken you.
Or you can take a conscious decision to forgive them and put away the hurt. Then you can start to heal.
How did the saying go?
Give me the courage to fight the battles that need fighting, the courage to leave the battles that cannot be won and the wisdom to know the difference.
When people tell you to forgive they usually don't stop to consider these points. Where these two factors exist then forgiveness is the best response.
If we assume that all reasonable efforts have been made to get the person brought to justice / to admit they've acted badly, apologise and make amends depending on the severity of the wrong and that these efforts have failed.
What then, are the alternatives to forgiving someone who has wronged you?
You can hate them for the wrong they've done. This will do you more harm than it will them.
You can spend you time trying to get even - extracting vengence. More satisfying in the short term but just as damaging in the long term. If you succeed then you're likely to be punished yourself and if you don't then it takes over your life and twists it.
You can try to forget about it. Many try but few succeed. It usually becomes a brooding sense of injustice that only serves to weaken you.
Or you can take a conscious decision to forgive them and put away the hurt. Then you can start to heal.
How did the saying go?
Give me the courage to fight the battles that need fighting, the courage to leave the battles that cannot be won and the wisdom to know the difference.
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cherandbuster
- Posts: 8594
- Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 11:33 am
Forgiveness
Bryn Mawr wrote: Give me the courage to fight the battles that need fighting, the courage to leave the battles that cannot be won and the wisdom to know the difference.
My recipe for a great marriage, too:)
My recipe for a great marriage, too:)
Live Life with
PASSION!:guitarist
PASSION!:guitarist
Forgiveness
Nomad wrote: Is it something that comes easy for you ? Or is it something that you just cant do ?
If you do forgive, what happens ? What I mean is how do you personally benefit from it ?
Does it make you stronger ? Or does it make you feel like you lost ?
Who have you forgiven ? You dont have to say for what, Im more interested in how it may have helped you.
I've found forgiveness easy so far. Although, saying that, you do have to say sorry to me before I will forgive. In my opinion it takes more effort to hold a grudge against someone rather than forgive them and be friends.
How do I personally benefit from it? hmmm sorry to use a cliche but it does feel like a weight has been lifted when I forgive somebody. I don't really feel stronger or that I have lost though I just move on.
If you do forgive, what happens ? What I mean is how do you personally benefit from it ?
Does it make you stronger ? Or does it make you feel like you lost ?
Who have you forgiven ? You dont have to say for what, Im more interested in how it may have helped you.
I've found forgiveness easy so far. Although, saying that, you do have to say sorry to me before I will forgive. In my opinion it takes more effort to hold a grudge against someone rather than forgive them and be friends.
How do I personally benefit from it? hmmm sorry to use a cliche but it does feel like a weight has been lifted when I forgive somebody. I don't really feel stronger or that I have lost though I just move on.
Forgiveness
flopstock wrote: See, I think that's my hangup. If someone wrongs me, shouldn't they know they were wronging me when they did it? Seems so easy to just do unto others and then say 'sorry'. Why couldn't they be sorry ahead of time and just not do it in the first place?
And I'm not talking about the little things that happen everyday, I'm talking about the big wrongs.
If people do things deliberately then sure, you're right, but several times I've said and done things that, when I look back at them, have shamed me as they are obvoiusly a wrong.
I never did claim to be perfect or a saint.
And I'm not talking about the little things that happen everyday, I'm talking about the big wrongs.
If people do things deliberately then sure, you're right, but several times I've said and done things that, when I look back at them, have shamed me as they are obvoiusly a wrong.
I never did claim to be perfect or a saint.
Forgiveness
Bryn Mawr wrote: If we assume that all reasonable efforts have been made to get the person brought to justice / to admit they've acted badly, apologise and make amends depending on the severity of the wrong and that these efforts have failed.
What then, are the alternatives to forgiving someone who has wronged you?
You can hate them for the wrong they've done. This will do you more harm than it will them.
You can spend you time trying to get even - extracting vengence. More satisfying in the short term but just as damaging in the long term. If you succeed then you're likely to be punished yourself and if you don't then it takes over your life and twists it.
You can try to forget about it. Many try but few succeed. It usually becomes a brooding sense of injustice that only serves to weaken you.
Or you can take a conscious decision to forgive them and put away the hurt. Then you can start to heal.
How did the saying go?
Give me the courage to fight the battles that need fighting, the courage to leave the battles that cannot be won and the wisdom to know the difference.
Hatred and anger need not be the result of withholding forgiveness. This particular book dealt with wrongs within a family where it is almost always forced on the victim to forgive and continue a relationship. My solution has been to avoid any continued relationship. I do tend to forgive that it was the best a person was capable of at the time but it does not mean I forgive completely to the point that I put myself in harms way again. There are two wrongs. The original and then the inability to admit they were wrong or deal with it. I forgive the first but the second is an ongoing offense. Not worth hating but definitely worth keeping distance.
What then, are the alternatives to forgiving someone who has wronged you?
You can hate them for the wrong they've done. This will do you more harm than it will them.
You can spend you time trying to get even - extracting vengence. More satisfying in the short term but just as damaging in the long term. If you succeed then you're likely to be punished yourself and if you don't then it takes over your life and twists it.
You can try to forget about it. Many try but few succeed. It usually becomes a brooding sense of injustice that only serves to weaken you.
Or you can take a conscious decision to forgive them and put away the hurt. Then you can start to heal.
How did the saying go?
Give me the courage to fight the battles that need fighting, the courage to leave the battles that cannot be won and the wisdom to know the difference.
Hatred and anger need not be the result of withholding forgiveness. This particular book dealt with wrongs within a family where it is almost always forced on the victim to forgive and continue a relationship. My solution has been to avoid any continued relationship. I do tend to forgive that it was the best a person was capable of at the time but it does not mean I forgive completely to the point that I put myself in harms way again. There are two wrongs. The original and then the inability to admit they were wrong or deal with it. I forgive the first but the second is an ongoing offense. Not worth hating but definitely worth keeping distance.