Is raising the gas prices a good idea?

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:08 pm

This morning I read an article from the CEO of a National Auto dealers assoc. He said that he believes that the govt should put a $1 additional tax on the already $3+ dollar price of gas. He said he believed that is what was needed to cause a major change in the mindset of the general population. So as for them to start to drastically conserve energy on all levels. And he believes that taking this action would definately start the ball rolling! (He said the additional tax was supposed to be returned to the people at the end of the year. It was just the initial $4.15 /gal price shock at the pump daily, that would curtail un-needed usage)

(Yesterday I paid $3.12/gal of reg gas, it cost "$40.00" to fill my car's tank, & it was already 1/4 full!) :guitarist

SO DO YOU THINK THAT THIS PLAN HAS ANY MERIT?

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:12 pm

Well we may pay $1.00 more a gallon anyway, not so sure it will ever change our mindset here in the US, could make a dent in it though.

Those Vespas are starting to look real good to me since I only live 2 miles from my office. Or one of them tiny, tiny new cars that look like skates with 2 doors..

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:15 pm

The problem is this - in most places in the U.S. there really isn't any public transportation. I have lived in 4 different States and yet have never lived in a city that offered bus service to anywhere that I need to go.

There for - I have to drive my van. Yes, a car would be more economical as far as fuel is concerned. BUT - my mom gave me the van and it runs. I do not have the money to go out and get myself a new car.

Hmm. Maybe if the government put some pressure on the auto companies to make vehicles that are more economical?

Sorry, I forgot that the people who run both the oil companies and the auto makers are also the people who donate big money to political campaigns.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:20 pm

My very poor state of NM has finally put in a rail-runner for 90 miles (Belen to Santa Fe) to counter the many people who have had to commute. It has been a great success.

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:29 pm

I think it is really nice for liberals to cause you as much pain at the gas pump as they can so that you will ride a bicycle.. what a great bunch of folks!!

I don't suppose drilling in Anwar or off the coast of California for more oil would make any sense to these people.. better to make you miserable I suppose... It's not like you deserved a vacation or anything.. better that you are caused as much pain as possible... You know... for the planet... and the children.. (At least the children who are not aborted.. those children don't count...)

Raymond

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:30 pm

CARLA wrote: Well we may pay $1.00 more a gallon anyway, not so sure it will ever change our mindset here in the US, could make a dent in it though.

Those Vespas are starting to look real good to me since I only live 2 miles from my office. Or one of them tiny, tiny new cars that look like skates with 2 doors..

Oh Oh CARLA, seems it got you thinking about a Vespa, maybe it will start to change the mindset of the general populace. :-2

As it turns out, I'm in the market for a new car right now, & MPG is one of the major factors of the car's selection. :-3 So it's got me thinking also!

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:36 pm

Yes LD, nv, & CR, more "public transportation" is really needed to try to help the problem. But unfortunately, that would cost millions, if not billions, so "we" would wind up still paying for it in one way or another! :guitarist

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:45 pm

That millions you have taked about is already here in the rail runner. YEAH for the commuters.

cars · Post by **cars** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:50 am

Diuretic wrote: A higher price forces those who can't afford it to change what they do and that has a knock-on effect. Tourism - especially local tourism - will suffer immediately because people stop driving. The wealthy don't care but of course they can fly to Aspen or Paris or wherever they go for holidays so there's no effect at the luxury end of the market.

And having more oil won't make a difference to the price either, so digging up whole swathes of wilderness to get at oil - which is still available in huge quantities from various oil-producing countries - won't make a difference. The oil price is high because the oil producers and oil companies and associated bodies want it to be high.

I have to agree, the "OIL" Baron's control the price of & the outlandish profits they make from all petroleum products. If only we could "drown" them in it!:guitarist

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:32 am

No I don't think so, at least when there's not a fuel alternative available for everybody. I keep seeing the ads on television for the GMC vehicles that are able to use the ethanol blend. But I have not seen a gas station that offers the ethanol blend.

There are 2 ethanol plants that are supposed to be built in my county. They were supposed to break ground on them this summer, but I have not heard anything else, except that the city had purchased land and water rights from a local farmer.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:08 am

Captain Ray wrote: I think it is really nice for liberals to cause you as much pain at the gas pump as they can so that you will ride a bicycle.. what a great bunch of folks!!

I don't suppose drilling in Anwar or off the coast of California for more oil would make any sense to these people.. better to make you miserable I suppose... It's not like you deserved a vacation or anything.. better that you are caused as much pain as possible... You know... for the planet... and the children.. (At least the children who are not aborted.. those children don't count...)

Raymond

Captain Ray, you are what my mom would have called a "bomb tosser". There are too many arguments ready to be started in your post.

But I'm not going to.

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:42 am

cherandbuster wrote: Captain Ray, you are what my mom would have called a "bomb tosser". There are too many arguments ready to be started in your post.

But I'm not going to.

Fair enough.

Raymond

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:30 am

Perhaps The higher the price the better. Might stimulate research in to alternatives. If the us is not careful it will be forced to play catch up with the rest of the world which in the meantime has taken a technological lead on you all because the oil companies don't want you buying less fuel. Short term gain at the expense of long term planning. Even Brazil is ahead in the provision of alternative biofuels for their car industry.

Once the chinese and russian economies really get going there is going to be massive price hikes in oil anyway just because of increased demand for the stuff. Being so heavily dependent on oil is not good place to be for any country. All any semi intelligent terrorist has to do is hit the oil supply and then sit back and watch the panic.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:49 am

nvalleyvee wrote: My very poor state of NM has finally put in a rail-runner for 90 miles (Belen to Santa Fe) to counter the many people who have had to commute. It has been a great success.

Hey NVV is that 90 miles one way and do you have an idea on how many

commuters there actually are who do that? (Not trying to nail you

any just totally out of curiosity!)

Raising gas prices scares me because I think of all the people on the

edge and living paycheck to paycheck that this would REALLY hurt.

And all the goods and produce that goes long miles by semi and that

would hit us in the pocketbook even more.

Buses around here take at least twice as long as travelling the same

distance in your personal car. Add that to an 8 hour work day and it's

just not realistic, it doesn't seem to me.

Of course, *I* have zero solution to the problem!!

:(

Mongoose · Post by **Mongoose** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:11 am

Raising petrol prices isn't going to change people's driving habits. Petrol is expensive here and yet people still drive most places in their cars. That's mainly because public transport is unreliable and slow. It can be really crowded and unpleasant in a big city, like London, as well and it's not cheap either.

This kind of leads on to my main point in that whenever you raise petrol prices the people that are hit hardest are those that live in rural areas that have to use their cars to get places because there is no alternative. That, coupled with an increase in prices in general because everything is transported by road means they face a double whammy.

There needs to be more reasearch and development of more economical cars and alternative fuels. I know that MPG is an important factor when buying a car over here and maybe the Americans need to follow suit and start making and buying more economical cars (unless they do already of course). Thing is, the oil companies aren't going to let their profits and power slip away to an alternative fuel until we have run out of oil. Then the oil companies will reveal their research into alternatives and charge us through the nose for that. :driving:

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:29 pm

Captain Ray wrote: I think it is really nice for liberals to cause you as much pain at the gas pump as they can so that you will ride a bicycle.. what a great bunch of folks!!

It's not just liberals that would like to see America become oil-independent, Ray. Most right-wingers like yourself don't like the idea of being tied to evil dictatorships and having to strong arm thrid world countries to keep our economy running.

I think anyone that has an idea that could help us get out from under our oil-addiction isn't bad, in fact I'd call them...

patriots.

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:57 pm

Jives wrote: It's not just liberals that would like to see America become oil-independent, Ray. Most right-wingers like yourself don't like the idea of being tied to evil dictatorships and having to strong arm thrid world countries to keep our economy running.

I think anyone that has an idea that could help us get out from under our oil-addiction isn't bad, in fact I'd call them...

patriots.

I'm all for alternative sources of energy.. If George Soros invented a car that can get me to and from work without petroleum products.. I would probably buy one of his machines.. instead he invests his wealth stopping the production of refineries, and the exploration of oil.. which makes me miserable..

forgive me if I don't appreciate that very much.

Raymond

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:08 pm

Captain Ray wrote: I'm all for alternative sources of energy.. If George Soros invented a car that can get me to and from work without petroleum products.. I would probably buy one of his machines.. instead he invests his wealth stopping the production of refineries, and the exploration of oil.. which makes me miserable..

forgive me if I don't appreciate that very much.

Raymond

There are many patents on file to vastly improve the fuel consumption of the infernal combustion engine.

They've been bought up by the petrol companies and never seen again.

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:18 pm

You seem like a smart guy.. why don't you make one of these machines? You could be filthy rich?

Raymond

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:31 pm

Captain Ray wrote: You seem like a smart guy.. why don't you make one of these machines? You could be filthy rich?

Raymond

Because it's illegal and one car won't make any difference.

One of them is very easy if you want to try.

Have a second fuel tank, same size as the petrol tank, filled with water.

Have an injector pumping into the inlet tract just before the head.

At the junction place an ultra-sonic transducer.

You'll find you can pump an equal volume of water as petrol. The transducer atomises the water and the ignition vapourises it. The volume of steam generated provides the push and the power is down less than 10% over running on pure petrol.

Simple, ingenious and cheep. Unfortunately no-one can use it because of the patent.

Captain Ray · Post by **Captain Ray** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:42 pm

Bryn Mawr wrote: Because it's illegal and one car won't make any difference.

One of them is very easy if you want to try.

Have a second fuel tank, same size as the petrol tank, filled with water.

Have an injector pumping into the inlet tract just before the head.

At the junction place an ultra-sonic transducer.

You'll find you can pump an equal volume of water as petrol. The transducer atomises the water and the ignition vapourises it. The volume of steam generated provides the push and the power is down less than 10% over running on pure petrol.

Simple, ingenious and cheep. Unfortunately no-one can use it because of the patent.

Illegal? I don't think so.

If it were such a great idea.. then people would do it.

It's like Bio-Deiesal.. hey man.. if you want to brew up fuel for your diesal engine in your garage.. then more power too you.. Get the stuff into the service station and you might have a selling idea.

Fact is... that right now.. Gas is the best thing going. If you environmentilist can figure out a way to deliver energy to the masses at an apealing price... you will have hit a home run. But hitting a home run does not seem to be what you are after.. you all just seem to be anti-industry, and anti-capitilism.. all your griping has not acheived very many of your socialist goals.

Raymond

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:54 pm

Captain Ray wrote: Illegal? I don't think so.

If it were such a great idea.. then people would do it.

It's like Bio-Deiesal.. hey man.. if you want to brew up fuel for your diesal engine in your garage.. then more power too you.. Get the stuff into the service station and you might have a selling idea.

Fact is... that right now.. Gas is the best thing going. If you environmentilist can figure out a way to deliver energy to the masses at an apealing price... you will have hit a home run. But hitting a home run does not seem to be what you are after.. you all just seem to be anti-industry, and anti-capitilism.. all your griping has not acheived very many of your socialist goals.

Raymond

Illegal certainly - if they catch you they'll procecute.

Bio-Diesel is an interesting concept - again the car companies try to suppress it by voiding your warrenty if you use more than 5% bio and the government tax it to the limit the market will accept.

If capitalism is about suppressing innovation and improvement then I'm anti-capitalist. As for being socialist, my wife would laugh her socks off at the very thought.

Personally, I'm all for using third generation nuclear plants to generate all the electricity we need and using fuel cells to power our cars but then, call me old fashioned.