Extreme body modification

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:50 pm

it's the picture that has me turning green.

:-3

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:13 pm

Good for him....

I would just like to know......

Why?

Im curious what would drive a human being to do this, while I wont judge him, and quite frankly I dont really have an opinion about the matter, other than I wouldnt in a million years do anything of the same sort, but would still like to know why.

why?

why?

why?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:29 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Good for him....

I would just like to know......

Why?

Im curious what would drive a human being to do this, while I wont judge him, and quite frankly I dont really have an opinion about the matter, other than I wouldnt in a million years do anything of the same sort, but would still like to know why.

why?

why?

why?

easy. free will.

the stuff at stevehawthorne.com is pretty intense too - just as bizarre. some of it, honestly scares me. but you know what? that's my problem, not theirs. their life. their body. their choice.

god bless em!

nihilisticmadman · Post by **nihilisticmadman** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:06 am

Extreme is the word... I like body modification but this is a bit much...

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:41 am

She might have problems getting a job at the McDonald's drive-thru. :-3

abctitansmom · Post by **abctitansmom** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:02 am

that isvery strange looking i have seen similar but for some reason thisone seems different maybe because this is done in lighter tattoos

nihilisticmadman · Post by **nihilisticmadman** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:00 am

You also have the lizard man... Which is not as bad tho... And not finished...

http://www.thelizardman.com/

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:19 am

anastrophe wrote: easy. free will.

the stuff at stevehawthorne.com is pretty intense too - just as bizarre. some of it, honestly scares me. but you know what? that's my problem, not theirs. their life. their body. their choice.

god bless em!

Nope.

No one in their right mind would say they reconstruct there face to look like a cat, all because they can......theres something more to it....has to be.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:21 am

Accountable wrote: She might have problems getting a job at the McDonald's drive-thru. :-3

She?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:26 am

K.Snyder wrote: Nope.

No one in their right mind would say they reconstruct there face to look like a cat, all because they can......theres something more to it....has to be.

well then - so much for "while I wont judge him".

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:39 am

anastrophe wrote: well then - so much for "while I wont judge him".

Wtf said I was judging him?

assuming it is a he.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:49 am

K.Snyder wrote: Wtf said I was judging him?

assuming it is a he.

so you're suggesting "No one in their right mind" isn't a judgement? amusing.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:54 am

anastrophe wrote: so you're suggesting "No one in their right mind" isn't a judgement? amusing.

Only to you.

Who is to say Im right?

Obviosly since you deem my statement to be true, would be the only way you see it as a judgement, therefore you are the one judging, not me.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:58 am

K.Snyder wrote: Only to you.

Who is to say Im right?

Obviosly since you deem my statement to be true, would be the only way you see it as a judgement, therefore you are the one judging, not me.

what on earth are you talking about? are you a trained psychiatrist? if not, then your JUDGEMENT that "nobody in their right mind" does this stuff is just that, a judgement.

look up "judgement" in the dictionary, please, before going further. you are making a value judgement. you have *stated* that they are not in their right mind.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:59 am

anastrophe wrote: what on earth are you talking about? are you a trained psychiatrist? if not, then your JUDGEMENT that "nobody in their right mind" does this stuff is just that, a judgement.

look up "judgement" in the dictionary, please, before going further. you are making a value judgement. you have *stated* that they are not in their right mind.

"....has to be." at the end of my statement should have given you a clue to my uncertainty, due to the fact that Im unwilling to judge him/her.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:03 pm

K.Snyder wrote: "....has to be." at the end of my statement should have given you a clue to my uncertainty, due to the fact that Im unwilling to judge him/her.

"has to be" is an emphatic. in what way does an emphatic express uncertainty??????

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:03 pm

anastrophe wrote: what on earth are you talking about? are you a trained psychiatrist? if not, then your JUDGEMENT that "nobody in their right mind" does this stuff is just that, a judgement.

look up "judgement" in the dictionary, please, before going further. you are making a value judgement. you have *stated* that they are not in their right mind.

I said " no one in their right mind would say they did what they did because of just free will"

not "no one in their right mind would do what he did"

a difference.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:06 pm

anastrophe wrote: "has to be" is an emphatic. in what way does an emphatic express uncertainty??????

In the exact way im telling you I used it, which was due to uncertainty.

What more do you need to know?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:09 pm

K.Snyder wrote: In the exact way im telling you I used it, which was due to uncertainty.

What more do you need to know?

okay. so we're not communicating using english. you make up your own definitions. fine. not much point in trying to communicate further if the rules of the language are changeable at your whim.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:12 pm

anastrophe wrote: okay. so we're not communicating using english. you make up your own definitions. fine. not much point in trying to communicate further if the rules of the language are changeable at your whim.

Right ok,

so you are saying you never use "has to be" at the end of a sentence to refer to it much like a question?

As in "has to be......right?"

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:01 pm

let's see if we can make sense of this mess.

you wrote:

Im curious what would drive a human being to do this, while I wont judge him, and quite frankly I dont really have an opinion about the matter, other than I wouldnt in a million years do anything of the same sort, but would still like to know why.

why?

why?

why?

my interpretation of these words is this: you're asking why a person performs body modifications. you claim you aren't judging, nor that you have an opinion. you state that you personally would never do this to your body. and reiterating your inquiry as to why people do it.

my reply:

easy. free will.

the stuff at stevehawthorne.com is pretty intense too - just as bizarre. some of it, honestly scares me. but you know what? that's my problem, not theirs. their life. their body. their choice.

god bless em!

i'm saying that the reason people do it is because they can. people have free will, so unlike creatures driven purely by instinct, we do things that are outside the basic requirements of oxygen, water, food, shelter, and reproduction. we write books. we write poems. we paint pictures. we create sculptures. we make music. we make films. we cook our food even when not required to sterilize it. we wear clothes even when ambient temperatures don't require them. many men shave their beards, either for utility, or to alter their appearance. many women shave their legs and/or armpits. many people wear jewelry. many people get their ears pierced in order to facilitate more ornate ear adornment. some people get tattoos to adorn their skin. some get implants under the skin. some people get braces to straighten their teeth, for no other reason than appearance. some people get their teeth whitened. many people wear makeup to hide blemishes and to otherwise improve their appearance. some women get breast implants to improve the appearance of same. some people get botox injects to limit the appearance of wrinkles. some people have their nose shape changed surgically. some people get liposuction to 'sculpt' the appearance of their body. some people sculpt their body by limiting their intake of calories and/or exercising. lots of people cut their hair to alter their appearance. many people wear contact lenses in order to avoid wearing glasses (because they don't like the appearance) and some go so far as to have their eyes surgically altered for the same reason.

none of these things are directly necessary in order to breathe, eat, or reproduce. we do them....because we can. are there "reasons" besides free will that we do them? of course. but the root of it is that we have a choice, and the nature of the choices is irrelevant, when we do it for ourselves, and harm nobody else in the process. there are qualitative differences among the activities i listed above, but quantitatively they are *all the same*.

you then replied:

Nope.

No one in their right mind would say they reconstruct there face to look like a cat, all because they can......theres something more to it....has to be.

you state - emphatically, as evidenced by "Nope", that no sane person would say that they modify their body "because they can". that there must be some other, greater/more specific reason for it - again followed by an emphatic that this must be the case.

well, i suppose i could easily interpret this as you stating that *i* am not sane, because this is exactly what i've said - that people do body modifications because they have free will, they do it simply because they can. okay. that's a judgement, mind you, as my psychiatrist has certified that i'm quite sane, albeit suffering from depression, poor self esteem, minor obsessive-compulsive disorder, and anxiety. be that as it may :yh_bigsmi , i take exception to your judgement that i, or anyone who suggests that body modification is a function of free will, is implicitly 'not sane'.

there are manifold *other* reasons why people do it - it pleases them, it gives their partner pleasure, they think it's 'cool', they're making a statement of some sort - whatever. it all boils down to choice, and it's a choice that harms nobody other than themselves, if even any harm is tendered there.

two final points:

body modification predates civilization.

i have a single piercing in my left ear, which probably closed up decades ago. i got it when i was in college, because i thought it would be "cool" - and because i could. what other reason, or explanation, is needed?

that's my sermon. if you liked it, join me for my next sermon this sunday on the topic of why supporting gay marriage is the christian thing to do.

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:16 pm

Well... back on topic here....

I have seen numerous shows on "catman" he has gone through quite the transformation. He is not alone there are others out there who feel the drive to modify to the extreme. It is all for their own reasons, and if they can live with that for life, so be it.

As for Lizard man, HAH I have actually met him. He is a very nice soft spoken and brilliant man, his aspirations... he wants to be in the freak show world. Bottom line. He certainly didn't come across as a man with "issues". I have also met a handful of other "freak" type folks and I find them amusing as all get out. And most of them do want to be "freaks" forever. I was impressed by one young man who is well known for his shock style of entertainment where he suspends things from his holes in his ears and nose. Freakish indeed but a delightful human to talk to.

My point is merely to say they are what they are, they have to live with what society hands them and I believe most are all in their right frames of minds to understand what they are doing to themselves.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:47 pm

Nah,

I said the person would be insane if he simply did it because he is free to do it, rather than a personal motive to do so.

Dont know how to say it more clearly than that.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:04 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Nah,

I said the person would be insane if he simply did it because he is free to do it, rather than a personal motive to do so.

Dont know how to say it more clearly than that.

sorry, doesn't wash. now you're contradicting your previous statement:

K.Snyder wrote:

I said " no one in their right mind would say they did what they did because of just free will"

not "no one in their right mind would do what he did"

a difference.

rather than being clear, you're being obscure, and purposely moving the target each time.

and if you state that a person would be insane for doing it for a specific motive, then you're judging them.

many people are driven very deeply by a personal philosophy. i'm quite sure there are people who have done body modifications for no other reason than because it's an expression of their free will.

these people you judge to be insane. that's certainly your privilege. just don't deny that you're making a judgement.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:14 pm

I'd heard of this guy a few years ago. Bizarre indeed. Frankly, I don't think he really resembles the tiger he is trying to look like, but hey....more power to him, if that's what makes him happy.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:39 pm

anastrophe wrote:

many people are driven very deeply by a personal philosophy. i'm quite sure there are people who have done body modifications for no other reason than because it's an expression of their free will.

Theres a difference between "body modification", and all out carving.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:41 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Theres a difference between "body modification", and all out carving.
Yes, and doing either is exercising your free will....what's confusing about that, K?

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:43 pm

anastrophe wrote:

these people you judge to be insane. that's certainly your privilege. just don't deny that you're making a judgement.

I have told you that it would only be judgement if he did it for the lone reason of just simplying having the right to do it.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:44 pm

BabyRider wrote: Yes, and doing either is exercising your free will....what's confusing about that, K?

Im just not convinced this person did it because he has free will.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:48 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Im just not convinced this person did it because he has free will.
But that's the gist of what's being debated here. Why he (they) did it is of no relavence. The fact that they have to free will to do as they please to their bodies, bizarre as it is, IS the point.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:54 pm

BabyRider wrote: But that's the gist of what's being debated here. Why he (they) did it is of no relavence. The fact that they have to free will to do as they please to their bodies, bizarre as it is, IS the point.

Right and he could have done it having free will, but if thats the only reason he done it, then I think that is crazy.

He had to want to look like a cat. Had to have been another motive to it.

I have the right to chop my arm off, but im not going to do it just because I can.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:13 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Right and he could have done it having free will, but if thats the only reason he done it, then I think that is crazy.

He had to want to look like a cat. Had to have been another motive to it.

I have the right to chop my arm off, but im not going to do it just because I can.

see post number 1. in it, he explains precisely why he does it. four posts later, you ask what drives a human to do this. since his explanation of precisely and specifically the reasons he has for doing so clearly weren't adequate, i responded that it was free will. that's the wellspring for any and all such human choices that aren't tied to survival. you quite succintly replied emphatically "nope". and here we are now.

i'm tired of this game of 'where's the target now'.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:24 pm

anastrophe wrote: see post number 1. in it, he explains precisely why he does it. four posts later, you ask what drives a human to do this. since his explanation of precisely and specifically the reasons he has for doing so clearly weren't adequate, i responded that it was free will. that's the wellspring for any and all such human choices that aren't tied to survival. you quite succintly replied emphatically "nope". and here we are now.

i'm tired of this game of 'where's the target now'.

This is Dennis' reason for doing it, not "only because of free will" as you have stated.

"And he says all of them - from full-face tattoos to fanged dentures to steel implants for detachable "whiskers" - have been done to achieve oneness with what he calls his totem, the tiger."

Heres his motive....

proof that he didnt do it strictly as a means of free will, which I have said I would have only judged his choice to be "insane" if this were the case. He did it for a specific reason, and I respect that. Something I couldnt respect if he did it just to do it.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:28 pm

K.Snyder wrote: This is Dennis' reason for doing it, not "only because of free will" as you have stated.

"And he says all of them - from full-face tattoos to fanged dentures to steel implants for detachable "whiskers" - have been done to achieve oneness with what he calls his totem, the tiger."

Heres his motive....

proof that he didnt do it strictly as a means of free will, which I have said I would have only judged his choice to be "insane" if this were the case. He did it for a specific reason, and I respect that. Something I couldnt respect if he did it just to do it.

would you be a love and show me where i said "only because of free will"? once again, you state something in the emphatic. something that doesn't exist. like i said - "where's the target now!?"

this is getting into the realm of trolling.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:29 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: So how does Michael Jackson's numerous surgeries fit into the philosophy of "hey, it's his body, good for him!" Regardless of the fact the man is most likely a pedophile, he's ruined a perfectly handsome face by searching for something that isn't available by "sculpting" his outer humanity, rather than looking inward to the reason he wants to change.
My opinion? (Remember....this is an OPINION), he wanted to look white. In doing so, he's made himself into a freak. But it was still free will, his choice to do so.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:34 pm

anastrophe wrote: would you be a love and show me where i said "only because of free will"? once again, you state something in the emphatic. something that doesn't exist. like i said - "where's the target now!?"

this is getting into the realm of trolling.

I have re-read the original post, and realized I skimmed over the reason as to why he did it. It wasnt exactly clear as far as being a primary motive. Is the totum his inspiration on life? Is it his shrine? Is it his grandfather from 1938? I have no clue, but he did it for the totum, and not just "free will", and I say more power to him.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:37 pm

K.Snyder wrote: I have re-read the original post, and realized I skimmed over the reason as to why he did it. It wasnt exactly clear as far as being a primary motive. Is the totum his inspiration on life? Is it his shrine? Is it his grandfather from 1938? I have no clue, but he did it for the totum, and not just "free will", and I say more power to him.

would you be a dear and show me where i said "only because of free will" or 'just "free will"'?

on second thought...no. i'm being skillfully trolled. i'm the worlds biggest sucker for being trolled actually, so it's unsurprising.

you win. i give up. clarity is a lost art.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:42 pm

anastrophe wrote: would you be a dear and show me where i said "only because of free will" or 'just "free will"'?

on second thought...no. i'm being skillfully trolled. i'm the worlds biggest sucker for being trolled actually, so it's unsurprising.

you win. i give up. clarity is a lost art.

Ok....