Hell, what is it?
Hell, what is it?
Jean-Paul Sarte said it best: "Hell is other people."
Hell, what is it?
A fiery place of perpetual torment for sinners who have not been washed by the blood of Jesus Christ.
A formula for tact: "Be brief politely, be aggressive smilingly, be emphatic pleasantly, be positive diplomatically, be right graciously".
Hell, what is it?
Hell is human life. Doomed for eternity means endless reincarnation for those who just can't seem to get it right.
Hell, what is it?
Ever read, "Dante's Inferno"? Dante wrote that he had a vision directly from God, himself. In his vision, the Angel Virgil took Dante on a tour through Hell.
It was shaped like a cone, or a strip mine, circular with descending levels. Each level, or Bolgia (Italian), was designed for a different type of sin. The first level was actually rather pleasant. There were white cottages and green fields. Here lived the unbaptised. Although they led good lives, they never knew God, but he wasn't too hard on them. Dante met Pythagorus, Achilles, and many more great heros here.
across the River Styx, was the Palace of Minos. here the arriving souls stated their crimes and his bovine tail whipped them out and set them in their prescibed place. Dante passed through without being judged by using the password, "This has been willed, where what is willed will be." (You might want to memorize that.)
The second level was the level of great winds. Here the lustful blew about in hurricane force winds. They gave everything away in search of lust, now they fly around continually, never touvhing the ground.
The next level held the hoarders and the wasters. Condemned to forever roll giant diamonds at each other. crushing each other and perpetually healing.
Next came a cold swamp where the sullen fought each other under the freezing, slimy waters.
After this was a great graveyard, where the conceited burned inside their mighty tombs of iron. They thought they were better than God, and build edifices to themselves. Now they burn in them. the gates of Hell are here too. The ones that read "Abandon All Hope, Ye Who enter Here." They are thrown down and crushed, which was done by Jesus when he came through after the crucifixtion.
Then came the gigantic and circular Lake of Boiling Blood. Here the violent had to stand at a depth appropriate to their violence. Dante saw shipwrecks with slavers caught below the decks, continually boiling away and healing. They are guarded by warriors and soldiers from all the armies of time, men and women who thought they were doing right by being violent, but enjoyed their jobs too much. If you try to wade to shore, they shoot you until you stagger back.
Lawyers who defended murderers and violent criminals like Billy the Kid also stood here.
After this came the bolgia of the flatterers: The grossest punishment of all. they are fitted with asecond anus where their mouths are. When they speak, fecal matter comes out. They wade through a river of it forever.
After the Plain of Fireflakes, where burning flakes of fire descend on the perverted (which Dante said included homosexuals) They slap themselves and dance on the burning sands.
The desert gives way to The Edge of the LoanSharks where the userers cry into their purses which hang from their necks. They can't look up and sit at the edge of an abyssmal cliff. The only way down is to ride on the back of Geryon, a very alien looking monster. Again the password comes in handy.
The theives are in a very large bolgia, since it's a very popular sin. They are in a jungle area teeming with reptilian life. When a snake or lizard bites them, they steal each others shapes. The man becomes the lizard, the former lizard gets his man shape back. They chase each eternally.
The Grafters have it bad. Those who stole from a position of trust are in the pitch. Boiling tar. Demons 8 feet tall guard them with pitchforks. When they find a body, they pull it out and tear it to ribbons and scatter it widely. It hurts a lot until the body slowly pulls itself together over the centuries and heals.
Then comes the bolgia of the Evil Counselors. Like giant white candleflames, they walk on fire around endlessly. Here can be found people like Mussolini, who thought they were doing good while they led people astray.
The next pit is the Pit of the Seers. All appealled to Satan for help. To some he gave it, to others not, it is the appeal that weighs against them. A giant Demon with a fingernail like a sword slashes their heads off and they walk on around the circle, carrying their heads. By the time they have returned, the head has healed in place and is ready to be cut off again
Then are two Titans. Strapped with chains so that they can barely shrug. The only way on is to climb down them to the plain below. It is quiet there, the only quiet place in lower Hell. Dante suggested it is reserved for some sin that hasn't been invented yet.
Finally comes the worst place of all. The Lake of Ice. Dante was very surprised to find part of Hell already frozen over. The temperature is far, far, below zero. It is the place of punishment of the Traitors. Those who sold out race, country, or creed. The damned are frozen in impossible positions, at a depth appropriate to their crime.
In the Center stands Satan. Only his torso shows through the hole in the ice. As tall as a five story building, he has three heads and each sharp toothed mouth chews on one of the 3 Great Traitors of the Human Race. One is Judas, of course, I'm afraid I don't know the other two.
If you climb down Satan's furry body, (and he will ask you the one question that will blast your soul, and you must answer it to pass) you come to a nice cave with a babbling brook. Above is a funnel shaped roof that reaches 200 miles to the surface.
Climb it and you will be in Heaven.
Dante said that the Angel Virgil told him that Hell was a place where God sends insane souls. If they can learn enough about evil there, they can still be saved and make it to Heaven. (Apparently, God doesn't like to give up on his children.)
Just like a catatonic in a hotbox, if Hell can't make a man cry for help and believe in God, well..
It was still worth a shot.
I'm not sure if I believe all that, but it was still very interesting, eh?
:rolleyes:
It was shaped like a cone, or a strip mine, circular with descending levels. Each level, or Bolgia (Italian), was designed for a different type of sin. The first level was actually rather pleasant. There were white cottages and green fields. Here lived the unbaptised. Although they led good lives, they never knew God, but he wasn't too hard on them. Dante met Pythagorus, Achilles, and many more great heros here.
across the River Styx, was the Palace of Minos. here the arriving souls stated their crimes and his bovine tail whipped them out and set them in their prescibed place. Dante passed through without being judged by using the password, "This has been willed, where what is willed will be." (You might want to memorize that.)
The second level was the level of great winds. Here the lustful blew about in hurricane force winds. They gave everything away in search of lust, now they fly around continually, never touvhing the ground.
The next level held the hoarders and the wasters. Condemned to forever roll giant diamonds at each other. crushing each other and perpetually healing.
Next came a cold swamp where the sullen fought each other under the freezing, slimy waters.
After this was a great graveyard, where the conceited burned inside their mighty tombs of iron. They thought they were better than God, and build edifices to themselves. Now they burn in them. the gates of Hell are here too. The ones that read "Abandon All Hope, Ye Who enter Here." They are thrown down and crushed, which was done by Jesus when he came through after the crucifixtion.
Then came the gigantic and circular Lake of Boiling Blood. Here the violent had to stand at a depth appropriate to their violence. Dante saw shipwrecks with slavers caught below the decks, continually boiling away and healing. They are guarded by warriors and soldiers from all the armies of time, men and women who thought they were doing right by being violent, but enjoyed their jobs too much. If you try to wade to shore, they shoot you until you stagger back.
Lawyers who defended murderers and violent criminals like Billy the Kid also stood here.
After this came the bolgia of the flatterers: The grossest punishment of all. they are fitted with asecond anus where their mouths are. When they speak, fecal matter comes out. They wade through a river of it forever.
After the Plain of Fireflakes, where burning flakes of fire descend on the perverted (which Dante said included homosexuals) They slap themselves and dance on the burning sands.
The desert gives way to The Edge of the LoanSharks where the userers cry into their purses which hang from their necks. They can't look up and sit at the edge of an abyssmal cliff. The only way down is to ride on the back of Geryon, a very alien looking monster. Again the password comes in handy.
The theives are in a very large bolgia, since it's a very popular sin. They are in a jungle area teeming with reptilian life. When a snake or lizard bites them, they steal each others shapes. The man becomes the lizard, the former lizard gets his man shape back. They chase each eternally.
The Grafters have it bad. Those who stole from a position of trust are in the pitch. Boiling tar. Demons 8 feet tall guard them with pitchforks. When they find a body, they pull it out and tear it to ribbons and scatter it widely. It hurts a lot until the body slowly pulls itself together over the centuries and heals.
Then comes the bolgia of the Evil Counselors. Like giant white candleflames, they walk on fire around endlessly. Here can be found people like Mussolini, who thought they were doing good while they led people astray.
The next pit is the Pit of the Seers. All appealled to Satan for help. To some he gave it, to others not, it is the appeal that weighs against them. A giant Demon with a fingernail like a sword slashes their heads off and they walk on around the circle, carrying their heads. By the time they have returned, the head has healed in place and is ready to be cut off again
Then are two Titans. Strapped with chains so that they can barely shrug. The only way on is to climb down them to the plain below. It is quiet there, the only quiet place in lower Hell. Dante suggested it is reserved for some sin that hasn't been invented yet.
Finally comes the worst place of all. The Lake of Ice. Dante was very surprised to find part of Hell already frozen over. The temperature is far, far, below zero. It is the place of punishment of the Traitors. Those who sold out race, country, or creed. The damned are frozen in impossible positions, at a depth appropriate to their crime.
In the Center stands Satan. Only his torso shows through the hole in the ice. As tall as a five story building, he has three heads and each sharp toothed mouth chews on one of the 3 Great Traitors of the Human Race. One is Judas, of course, I'm afraid I don't know the other two.
If you climb down Satan's furry body, (and he will ask you the one question that will blast your soul, and you must answer it to pass) you come to a nice cave with a babbling brook. Above is a funnel shaped roof that reaches 200 miles to the surface.
Climb it and you will be in Heaven.
Dante said that the Angel Virgil told him that Hell was a place where God sends insane souls. If they can learn enough about evil there, they can still be saved and make it to Heaven. (Apparently, God doesn't like to give up on his children.)
Just like a catatonic in a hotbox, if Hell can't make a man cry for help and believe in God, well..
It was still worth a shot.
I'm not sure if I believe all that, but it was still very interesting, eh?
:rolleyes:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Hell, what is it?
Simply a place separated from God's love.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
skittles2004 wrote: I kind of agree with you. But do you really believe a "Loving God' would send us there. My views on hell is simply that it is a holding place.
Complete love requires complete justice.
Complete love requires complete justice.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
Jean-Paul Sarte said it best: "Hell is other people."Pat Benetar said "Hell. Hell is for children" :guitarist
A fiery place of perpetual torment for sinners who have not been washed by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Washed by blood sounds rather hellish to me!
Hell is human life. Doomed for eternity means endless reincarnation for those who just can't seem to get it right.
:yh_ttth Whatever!
I'm not sure if I believe all that, but it was still very interesting, eh?
All that for something you don't believe in? You gotta be kidding.
Simply a place separated from God's love.
Thanks for taking all the drama out of it CLINT!
I kind of agree with you. But do you really believe a "Loving God' would send us there. My views on hell is simply that it is a holding place.
Kind of like a drunk tank? What does "kind of agree" reeeeally mean?
Complete love requires complete justice.
I thought it required compassion. But, hey, justice is cool!
As the moderator, I apologize for this member's behaviour.
I don't know what came over me. Please note I made fun of myself as well.
I will be watching myself carefully for further sarcasm. I give and take this as a warning. *slap on typing wrist*
A fiery place of perpetual torment for sinners who have not been washed by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Washed by blood sounds rather hellish to me!Hell is human life. Doomed for eternity means endless reincarnation for those who just can't seem to get it right.
:yh_ttth Whatever!
I'm not sure if I believe all that, but it was still very interesting, eh?
All that for something you don't believe in? You gotta be kidding.
Simply a place separated from God's love.
Thanks for taking all the drama out of it CLINT!
I kind of agree with you. But do you really believe a "Loving God' would send us there. My views on hell is simply that it is a holding place.
Kind of like a drunk tank? What does "kind of agree" reeeeally mean?
Complete love requires complete justice.
I thought it required compassion. But, hey, justice is cool!
As the moderator, I apologize for this member's behaviour.
I don't know what came over me. Please note I made fun of myself as well.
I will be watching myself carefully for further sarcasm. I give and take this as a warning. *slap on typing wrist*
Hell, what is it?
Hell. The land of fire and brimstone. The land of endless torment. The land of fire and raging demons.
These images come from culture that were ignorant of the world around them. These images came from what they knew of the world around them. What they knew was that under the earth was the fire as they saw and knew existed by the oil that burned with the smell of sulfur in the Mid East. The volcanoes that were in the Meditearannean. Bad goes down and if the bad go down then the good must go up! It is the perfect logic.
When people went into the ground it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that the God would come and either save them from the torment of spending eternity being drawn into the depths of hell.(fire burn, fire bad) or take them to be where they wouldn't spend eternity being scorched, seared and boiled by the heat. Good is up. Naturally perfect logic strikes again. I wonder what they would have done had they realized that space was so frigid.
Judging from some people that I know? They would rather be a little bit hotter than to take the cold.
Jives (note right name)
Dante supposedly had a last chapter that was hidden away and was found by his children under his direction from the other side. Ne c'est pas?
These images come from culture that were ignorant of the world around them. These images came from what they knew of the world around them. What they knew was that under the earth was the fire as they saw and knew existed by the oil that burned with the smell of sulfur in the Mid East. The volcanoes that were in the Meditearannean. Bad goes down and if the bad go down then the good must go up! It is the perfect logic.
When people went into the ground it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that the God would come and either save them from the torment of spending eternity being drawn into the depths of hell.(fire burn, fire bad) or take them to be where they wouldn't spend eternity being scorched, seared and boiled by the heat. Good is up. Naturally perfect logic strikes again. I wonder what they would have done had they realized that space was so frigid.
Judging from some people that I know? They would rather be a little bit hotter than to take the cold.
Jives (note right name)
Dante supposedly had a last chapter that was hidden away and was found by his children under his direction from the other side. Ne c'est pas?
Hell, what is it?
meh. I dont think that there is a hell. I dont actually believe that there is life after death.
If anything, imo, it's just something made up to scare someone into doing the desired actions of the powertripper.
"YOU will go to hell if you do not come to our Christian meeting held on Tuesdays at 8. And here, take a leaflet. No, go on... we've even taped a sweet to it."
If anything, imo, it's just something made up to scare someone into doing the desired actions of the powertripper.
"YOU will go to hell if you do not come to our Christian meeting held on Tuesdays at 8. And here, take a leaflet. No, go on... we've even taped a sweet to it."
I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
:driving: gosh, I love this smiley.
:driving: gosh, I love this smiley.
Hell, what is it?
kensloft wrote: Hell. The land of fire and brimstone. The land of endless torment. The land of fire and raging demons.
These images come from culture that were ignorant of the world around them. These images came from what they knew of the world around them. What they knew was that under the earth was the fire as they saw and knew existed by the oil that burned with the smell of sulfur in the Mid East. The volcanoes that were in the Meditearannean. Bad goes down and if the bad go down then the good must go up! It is the perfect logic.
When people went into the ground it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that the God would come and either save them from the torment of spending eternity being drawn into the depths of hell.(fire burn, fire bad) or take them to be where they wouldn't spend eternity being scorched, seared and boiled by the heat. Good is up. Naturally perfect logic strikes again. I wonder what they would have done had they realized that space was so frigid.
Judging from some people that I know? They would rather be a little bit hotter than to take the cold.
Jives (note right name)
Dante supposedly had a last chapter that was hidden away and was found by his children under his direction from the other side. Ne c'est pas?
There was a belief at the time of Jesus’ walk on earth that Sheol (Hell) was below the Sea of Galilee. When Jesus called to Peter to walk to him on the water and Peter looked down and began to sink, he was, in his mind, sinking into hell. Jesus taught that there is a place of torment and separation from God.
I think that Einstein would agree that there is a Hell. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. With that in mind, where should Hitler be? Where should Stalin be? Where should Manson be? Where should I be for some of the people I have hurt in my life?
There is another law that comes into play here. It is the law of the sacrifice. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. The blood he shed during that sacrifice is sufficient to interfere with the "Theory of Relativity". It is life changing. Those who’s eyes are opened and who’s hearts are accepting are never the same. Their course is changed by the reality of God’s love and they are redirected to God’s fold rather than continuing on a course of separation from Him.
These images come from culture that were ignorant of the world around them. These images came from what they knew of the world around them. What they knew was that under the earth was the fire as they saw and knew existed by the oil that burned with the smell of sulfur in the Mid East. The volcanoes that were in the Meditearannean. Bad goes down and if the bad go down then the good must go up! It is the perfect logic.
When people went into the ground it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that the God would come and either save them from the torment of spending eternity being drawn into the depths of hell.(fire burn, fire bad) or take them to be where they wouldn't spend eternity being scorched, seared and boiled by the heat. Good is up. Naturally perfect logic strikes again. I wonder what they would have done had they realized that space was so frigid.
Judging from some people that I know? They would rather be a little bit hotter than to take the cold.
Jives (note right name)
Dante supposedly had a last chapter that was hidden away and was found by his children under his direction from the other side. Ne c'est pas?
There was a belief at the time of Jesus’ walk on earth that Sheol (Hell) was below the Sea of Galilee. When Jesus called to Peter to walk to him on the water and Peter looked down and began to sink, he was, in his mind, sinking into hell. Jesus taught that there is a place of torment and separation from God.
I think that Einstein would agree that there is a Hell. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. With that in mind, where should Hitler be? Where should Stalin be? Where should Manson be? Where should I be for some of the people I have hurt in my life?
There is another law that comes into play here. It is the law of the sacrifice. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. The blood he shed during that sacrifice is sufficient to interfere with the "Theory of Relativity". It is life changing. Those who’s eyes are opened and who’s hearts are accepting are never the same. Their course is changed by the reality of God’s love and they are redirected to God’s fold rather than continuing on a course of separation from Him.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
Hell is a state of being that we humans experience right here on earth at times.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Shalom
Ted :-6
Hell, what is it?
Ted wrote: Hell is a state of being that we humans experience right here on earth at times.
Shalom
Ted :-6
I just got out of hell. My wife started talking to my mother again.
Shalom
Ted :-6
I just got out of hell. My wife started talking to my mother again.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
skittles2004 wrote: Many religions have different views on what hell is. What are yours?
Hell is the place that was not created for human beings. It's the second death that Christ spent most of His ministry warning us about. Trying to convince us that we REALLY didnt want to go there.
(But some just wont listen)
Hell is the place that was not created for human beings. It's the second death that Christ spent most of His ministry warning us about. Trying to convince us that we REALLY didnt want to go there.
(But some just wont listen)
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
Hell, what is it?
Clint wrote: There was a belief at the time of Jesus’ walk on earth that Sheol (Hell) was below the Sea of Galilee. When Jesus called to Peter to walk to him on the water and Peter looked down and began to sink, he was, in his mind, sinking into hell. Jesus taught that there is a place of torment and separation from God.
I think that Einstein would agree that there is a Hell. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. With that in mind, where should Hitler be? Where should Stalin be? Where should Manson be? Where should I be for some of the people I have hurt in my life?
There is another law that comes into play here. It is the law of the sacrifice. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. The blood he shed during that sacrifice is sufficient to interfere with the "Theory of Relativity". It is life changing. Those who’s eyes are opened and who’s hearts are accepting are never the same. Their course is changed by the reality of God’s love and they are redirected to God’s fold rather than continuing on a course of separation from Him.
Hell is anywhere that you make its presence exist. I like to consider that Christ is my friend.
I think that Einstein would agree that there is a Hell. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. With that in mind, where should Hitler be? Where should Stalin be? Where should Manson be? Where should I be for some of the people I have hurt in my life?
There is another law that comes into play here. It is the law of the sacrifice. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. The blood he shed during that sacrifice is sufficient to interfere with the "Theory of Relativity". It is life changing. Those who’s eyes are opened and who’s hearts are accepting are never the same. Their course is changed by the reality of God’s love and they are redirected to God’s fold rather than continuing on a course of separation from Him.
Hell is anywhere that you make its presence exist. I like to consider that Christ is my friend.
Hell, what is it?
kensloft wrote: Hell is anywhere that you make its presence exist. I like to consider that Christ is my friend.
Christ is another word for Messiah. He is going to return as THE King. He is my Lord and Savior. I’m careful about calling him “friend†because in our vernacular it tends to reduce him to our level.
Christ is another word for Messiah. He is going to return as THE King. He is my Lord and Savior. I’m careful about calling him “friend†because in our vernacular it tends to reduce him to our level.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
Clint wrote: Christ is another word for Messiah. He is going to return as THE King. He is my Lord and Savior. I’m careful about calling him “friend†because in our vernacular it tends to reduce him to our level.
Isn't there a Christian hymn that says that you have a friend in Jesus?
Isn't there a Christian hymn that says that you have a friend in Jesus?
Hell, what is it?
kensloft wrote: Isn't there a Christian hymn that says that you have a friend in Jesus?
Yes. It's the way that we use the word that I think tends to give us a false sense of who he is. It's like, "what a buddy we have in Jesus". He says he is our friend and I believe he is. A friend loves us, is dear to us, is our companion and comrad as we move through life and stands beside us. As I said, I'm just careful that I don't use the word to reduce him to my level. He will, after all, judge us and our final destination is in his hands.
Yes. It's the way that we use the word that I think tends to give us a false sense of who he is. It's like, "what a buddy we have in Jesus". He says he is our friend and I believe he is. A friend loves us, is dear to us, is our companion and comrad as we move through life and stands beside us. As I said, I'm just careful that I don't use the word to reduce him to my level. He will, after all, judge us and our final destination is in his hands.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
Clint wrote: Yes. It's the way that we use the word that I think tends to give us a false sense of who he is. It's like, "what a buddy we have in Jesus". He says he is our friend and I believe he is. A friend loves us, is dear to us, is our companion and comrad as we move through life and stands beside us. As I said, I'm just careful that I don't use the word to reduce him to my level. He will, after all, judge us and our final destination is in his hands.
My game plan is to make sure that I don't give Him any reason to want to have to judge me.
My game plan is to make sure that I don't give Him any reason to want to have to judge me.
Hell, what is it?
My idea of Hell, to expand on earlier post and give examples:
Writing a really long love letter with every ounce of my being in it only to have the network lose it when I hit "send".
Getting a song stuck in my head for more than one day when I only know one line from the lyrics.
Having to read Saintsman's posts even when I put him on ignore.
....I'm sure there are more but I blanked after the last one.
Humour aside, I stick with my first concept. Hell? This is it. Stop torturing yourselves with ideas of judgement and damnation.
Writing a really long love letter with every ounce of my being in it only to have the network lose it when I hit "send".
Getting a song stuck in my head for more than one day when I only know one line from the lyrics.
Having to read Saintsman's posts even when I put him on ignore.
....I'm sure there are more but I blanked after the last one.
Humour aside, I stick with my first concept. Hell? This is it. Stop torturing yourselves with ideas of judgement and damnation.
Hell, what is it?
sagan wrote: I've no desire to be judged by either god or Jesus, after all, neither are the most stable of personalities, are they?
Wow, you can judge God's personality!!! Who does that make you?
Wow, you can judge God's personality!!! Who does that make you?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
sagan wrote: Literate.
Rejection of God boils down to arrogance and pride every time.
Rejection of God boils down to arrogance and pride every time.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
Clint wrote: Rejection of God boils down to arrogance and pride every time.
I don't think arrogance and pride are limited to non believers, I have met many arrogant people with very strong religious faith.
I don't think arrogance and pride are limited to non believers, I have met many arrogant people with very strong religious faith.
Hell, what is it?
sagan wrote: You think so? As far as I'm concerned, it boils down to looking at the available evidence. Lets start at the beginning...
Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. I'm sure you know the storey. He places them in the garden, the apple gets eaten, and he punishes all humans for the rest of eternity for it.
But whose fault was this? If your god had created Adam and Eve without freewill, then they couldn't have disobeyed God as it wasn't their decision, - it was gods. Without freewill they had no capacity for decision making, but he puts the serpent there to tempt them, and as per his plan, the apple gets eaten.
If your nonexistent god had created them with freewill, is it any better? Because they hadn't yet eaten from the tree when the serpent talked to them, they had no knowledge of what is good and what is evil, thus they were innocent. Hence, even though they're disobeying a direct order from your god almighty, they don't have the capacity to understand whether it's wrong or not. So freewill is irrelevant, and once again, thanks a lot god. These are the actions of a deity in serious need of counseling.
What message does the storey of Adam and Eve convey? If your a good little believer and don't question anything god or his earthly representatives tell you, you get to go to heaven. If you seek out knowledge, question god and his agents on earth, you will be punished for the rest of eternity. Your god has sanctioned everything from mass murder to something that very much approaches paedophilia. If he exists, the last thing he deserves is worship. Give me hell anytime.
All of your postulation hinges on your belief that you have complete wisdom. You assume that God is wrong because in your mind there is no greater wisdom than yours.
If we don’t have free will, what do we have? Knowing that we are alive depends on our making decisions. If there aren’t any decisions to make we simply drift along in a meaningless drone, taking in and expelling food.
The thing that makes me absolutely sure there is a God is that I’m unable to plum his depths. If I could grasp the meaning of everything he does, I would also be God.
I sincerely hope you don’t have to experience hell in any form.
Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. I'm sure you know the storey. He places them in the garden, the apple gets eaten, and he punishes all humans for the rest of eternity for it.
But whose fault was this? If your god had created Adam and Eve without freewill, then they couldn't have disobeyed God as it wasn't their decision, - it was gods. Without freewill they had no capacity for decision making, but he puts the serpent there to tempt them, and as per his plan, the apple gets eaten.
If your nonexistent god had created them with freewill, is it any better? Because they hadn't yet eaten from the tree when the serpent talked to them, they had no knowledge of what is good and what is evil, thus they were innocent. Hence, even though they're disobeying a direct order from your god almighty, they don't have the capacity to understand whether it's wrong or not. So freewill is irrelevant, and once again, thanks a lot god. These are the actions of a deity in serious need of counseling.
What message does the storey of Adam and Eve convey? If your a good little believer and don't question anything god or his earthly representatives tell you, you get to go to heaven. If you seek out knowledge, question god and his agents on earth, you will be punished for the rest of eternity. Your god has sanctioned everything from mass murder to something that very much approaches paedophilia. If he exists, the last thing he deserves is worship. Give me hell anytime.
All of your postulation hinges on your belief that you have complete wisdom. You assume that God is wrong because in your mind there is no greater wisdom than yours.
If we don’t have free will, what do we have? Knowing that we are alive depends on our making decisions. If there aren’t any decisions to make we simply drift along in a meaningless drone, taking in and expelling food.
The thing that makes me absolutely sure there is a God is that I’m unable to plum his depths. If I could grasp the meaning of everything he does, I would also be God.
I sincerely hope you don’t have to experience hell in any form.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
sagan wrote: Please, don't ascribe the arrogance of 'true believers' to me. Would you like to point out where I said I had 'complete wisdom'. I gave you my opinion. One not necessarily to your liking, (or your gods). Tough.
Hmmm...Lets see, all eternity in the company of the smug, sanctimonious, self-righteous chosen ones of god; or hell. No contest, make me some space around the fire.
You said your way of thinking was greater than God's by saying God is wrong.
I made a mistake when I responded to you in the first place. We don't have any basis for agreement. I don't understand why Athiests engage in religious discussions.
Hmmm...Lets see, all eternity in the company of the smug, sanctimonious, self-righteous chosen ones of god; or hell. No contest, make me some space around the fire.
You said your way of thinking was greater than God's by saying God is wrong.
I made a mistake when I responded to you in the first place. We don't have any basis for agreement. I don't understand why Athiests engage in religious discussions.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Hell, what is it?
Clint wrote: You said your way of thinking was greater than God's by saying God is wrong.
I made a mistake when I responded to you in the first place. We don't have any basis for agreement. I don't understand why Athiests engage in religious discussions.
When did he say that God was wrong. He doesn't believe in God. Does this mean, in your estimation, that anyone that doesn't believe or know God is doomed the hell and damnation. Furthermore how do you now that it is not God testing you to test your faith in His ways? Either way you are talking about God and isn't that what it is all about. Doing things God's way is done by both of you.
Sagan is not running around mugging little old ladies or stealing candy from children. He is doing things that God approves of and he is doing them thinking that there is no God that has told him to do what he does. The fact is he is doing right and you are accusing him of doing wrong because he is not doing these things according to the proscribed manner of your sect's interpretation of the way that things are.
There is a lot that you agree on. It is just that there is something that you don't agree on and it has taken precedence over your rationalization of exactly what it is about. The bottom line is that we live and do God's work. He decides what His work is.
He does not exclude anyone from practicing His ways and yet you do by not accepting that sagan doesn't believe in man made postulations about a higher power or being. Rather than believe in these man made ideals he chooses to practice God's way his way.
It is the good that people do in their lives that counts. Not whether the good is done under the auspices of someone's ideals and beliefs. If there were historical proofs that proved that Jesus was who He was then I'd lay odds that sagan would be first in line to join the team.
I made a mistake when I responded to you in the first place. We don't have any basis for agreement. I don't understand why Athiests engage in religious discussions.
When did he say that God was wrong. He doesn't believe in God. Does this mean, in your estimation, that anyone that doesn't believe or know God is doomed the hell and damnation. Furthermore how do you now that it is not God testing you to test your faith in His ways? Either way you are talking about God and isn't that what it is all about. Doing things God's way is done by both of you.
Sagan is not running around mugging little old ladies or stealing candy from children. He is doing things that God approves of and he is doing them thinking that there is no God that has told him to do what he does. The fact is he is doing right and you are accusing him of doing wrong because he is not doing these things according to the proscribed manner of your sect's interpretation of the way that things are.
There is a lot that you agree on. It is just that there is something that you don't agree on and it has taken precedence over your rationalization of exactly what it is about. The bottom line is that we live and do God's work. He decides what His work is.
He does not exclude anyone from practicing His ways and yet you do by not accepting that sagan doesn't believe in man made postulations about a higher power or being. Rather than believe in these man made ideals he chooses to practice God's way his way.
It is the good that people do in their lives that counts. Not whether the good is done under the auspices of someone's ideals and beliefs. If there were historical proofs that proved that Jesus was who He was then I'd lay odds that sagan would be first in line to join the team.
Hell, what is it?
sagan said he chose Hell. I don't judge people to Hell or Heaven. I couldn't let that stand. Other than that, there is nothing to gain by continuing this discussion along this line. It is an intersting thread topic and I'm probably guilty of taking it down a rabbit trail.
Hell is no place I want to be. With or without people I do or don't agree with. Maybe Hell is a place where everyone agrees.
Hell is no place I want to be. With or without people I do or don't agree with. Maybe Hell is a place where everyone agrees.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
Hell, what is it?
I wonder if he uses Gas, oil or coal:D
Hell, what is it?
Clint wrote: sagan said he chose Hell. I don't judge people to Hell or Heaven. I couldn't let that stand. Other than that, there is nothing to gain by continuing this discussion along this line. It is an intersting thread topic and I'm probably guilty of taking it down a rabbit trail.
Hell is no place I want to be. With or without people I do or don't agree with. Maybe Hell is a place where everyone agrees.
Saw an episode like that on the Twilight Zone where a small time hood went to hell and couldn't do anything wrong. Got his every wish. One unhappy camper when he realized that that would be his eternal torment.
Hell is no place I want to be. With or without people I do or don't agree with. Maybe Hell is a place where everyone agrees.
Saw an episode like that on the Twilight Zone where a small time hood went to hell and couldn't do anything wrong. Got his every wish. One unhappy camper when he realized that that would be his eternal torment.
Hell, what is it?
Hawke wrote: Jean-Paul Sarte said it best: "Hell is other people."
Sounds like something you'd read in the NY Times and Jean=Paul Sarte never said it best. That's your opinion.
Hell. to me and I know not what all of you think is simply is NOT knowing God, to me (Jesus). AND it is in this life that we experience Hell!
NOt in the every after.
Why would ANY God in the entire universe say that …"Hell is other people".
Blame everyone else.........that's a Sociopath........formally know as a Psychopath!
Can you relate?
xxxxxxxxxxxooooo
mama
Sounds like something you'd read in the NY Times and Jean=Paul Sarte never said it best. That's your opinion.
Hell. to me and I know not what all of you think is simply is NOT knowing God, to me (Jesus). AND it is in this life that we experience Hell!
NOt in the every after.
Why would ANY God in the entire universe say that …"Hell is other people".
Blame everyone else.........that's a Sociopath........formally know as a Psychopath!
Can you relate?
xxxxxxxxxxxooooo
mama
Hell, what is it?
LoveMama wrote:
Hell. to me and I know not what all of you think is simply is NOT knowing God, to me (Jesus).
Um....you're current punctuation implies that you are Jesus. You might want to rethink this. Or at least reword it.
Hell. to me and I know not what all of you think is simply is NOT knowing God, to me (Jesus).
Um....you're current punctuation implies that you are Jesus. You might want to rethink this. Or at least reword it.
Hell, what is it?
koan wrote: Um....you're current punctuation implies that you are Jesus. You might want to rethink this. Or at least reword it.
Either that or some women's libbers were right about God being a female.
Either that or some women's libbers were right about God being a female.
Hell, what is it?
kensloft wrote: When did he say that God was wrong. He doesn't believe in God. Does this mean, in your estimation, that anyone that doesn't believe or know God is doomed the hell and damnation. Furthermore how do you now that it is not God testing you to test your faith in His ways? Either way you are talking about God and isn't that what it is all about. Doing things God's way is done by both of you.
Sagan is not running around mugging little old ladies or stealing candy from children. He is doing things that God approves of and he is doing them thinking that there is no God that has told him to do what he does. The fact is he is doing right and you are accusing him of doing wrong because he is not doing these things according to the proscribed manner of your sect's interpretation of the way that things are.
There is a lot that you agree on. It is just that there is something that you don't agree on and it has taken precedence over your rationalization of exactly what it is about. The bottom line is that we live and do God's work. He decides what His work is.
He does not exclude anyone from practicing His ways and yet you do by not accepting that sagan doesn't believe in man made postulations about a higher power or being. Rather than believe in these man made ideals he chooses to practice God's way his way.
It is the good that people do in their lives that counts. Not whether the good is done under the auspices of someone's ideals and beliefs. If there were historical proofs that proved that Jesus was who He was then I'd lay odds that sagan would be first in line to join the team.
I think anyone who says they dont believe in God, is lying to themselves and others. As a matter of fact, God said he instilled the knowledge of Himself into every being created. Even the earth itself has knowledge of it's creator. Atheists are folks who are in a constant struggle with the Holy Spirit. Thats why they argue so vehemently against God's existence. God did that for a reason, so when the time comes for us all to be judged, the excuse, "but I didnt know" wont work with Him.
God Himself says "there is none rightous before Him, no not one" And Christ reminds us about trying to achieve Heaven by good works alone.
Christ spent all His ministry telling us there is only ONE way to paradise, mate. And HE'S it! As for hell.......He told us all about that too. A place where theres nothing but weeping and knashing of teeth. "And the smoke of their burning will rise in front of me, FOREVER." The problem with people is they just dont WANT to believe there is a place THAT horrible. Well Christ assures us that there is. Why else send your only begotten to save people from it?
Sagan is not running around mugging little old ladies or stealing candy from children. He is doing things that God approves of and he is doing them thinking that there is no God that has told him to do what he does. The fact is he is doing right and you are accusing him of doing wrong because he is not doing these things according to the proscribed manner of your sect's interpretation of the way that things are.
There is a lot that you agree on. It is just that there is something that you don't agree on and it has taken precedence over your rationalization of exactly what it is about. The bottom line is that we live and do God's work. He decides what His work is.
He does not exclude anyone from practicing His ways and yet you do by not accepting that sagan doesn't believe in man made postulations about a higher power or being. Rather than believe in these man made ideals he chooses to practice God's way his way.
It is the good that people do in their lives that counts. Not whether the good is done under the auspices of someone's ideals and beliefs. If there were historical proofs that proved that Jesus was who He was then I'd lay odds that sagan would be first in line to join the team.
I think anyone who says they dont believe in God, is lying to themselves and others. As a matter of fact, God said he instilled the knowledge of Himself into every being created. Even the earth itself has knowledge of it's creator. Atheists are folks who are in a constant struggle with the Holy Spirit. Thats why they argue so vehemently against God's existence. God did that for a reason, so when the time comes for us all to be judged, the excuse, "but I didnt know" wont work with Him.
God Himself says "there is none rightous before Him, no not one" And Christ reminds us about trying to achieve Heaven by good works alone.
Christ spent all His ministry telling us there is only ONE way to paradise, mate. And HE'S it! As for hell.......He told us all about that too. A place where theres nothing but weeping and knashing of teeth. "And the smoke of their burning will rise in front of me, FOREVER." The problem with people is they just dont WANT to believe there is a place THAT horrible. Well Christ assures us that there is. Why else send your only begotten to save people from it?
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
Hell, what is it?
Raven wrote: I think anyone who says they dont believe in God, is lying to themselves and others. As a matter of fact, God said he instilled the knowledge of Himself into every being created. Even the earth itself has knowledge of it's creator. Atheists are folks who are in a constant struggle with the Holy Spirit. Thats why they argue so vehemently against God's existence. God did that for a reason, so when the time comes for us all to be judged, the excuse, "but I didnt know" wont work with Him.
God Himself says "there is none rightous before Him, no not one" And Christ reminds us about trying to achieve Heaven by good works alone.
Christ spent all His ministry telling us there is only ONE way to paradise, mate. And HE'S it! As for hell.......He told us all about that too. A place where theres nothing but weeping and knashing of teeth. "And the smoke of their burning will rise in front of me, FOREVER." The problem with people is they just dont WANT to believe there is a place THAT horrible. Well Christ assures us that there is. Why else send your only begotten to save people from it?
That is a very strong opinion!
It is good to know what you believe. I believe, among other things, that God made some people skeptics.
God Himself says "there is none rightous before Him, no not one" And Christ reminds us about trying to achieve Heaven by good works alone.
Christ spent all His ministry telling us there is only ONE way to paradise, mate. And HE'S it! As for hell.......He told us all about that too. A place where theres nothing but weeping and knashing of teeth. "And the smoke of their burning will rise in front of me, FOREVER." The problem with people is they just dont WANT to believe there is a place THAT horrible. Well Christ assures us that there is. Why else send your only begotten to save people from it?
That is a very strong opinion!
It is good to know what you believe. I believe, among other things, that God made some people skeptics.
Hell, what is it?
That he did! I also believe He doesnt make mistakes. Every single thing He put the breath of life to, has a purpose and reason for being.
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
Hell, what is it?
sagan wrote:
Gosh! Does that mean that all those god fearing, honest, decent men and women who lived before the Jesus myth became established will to go hell? They didn't know about hell. Your god forgot to tell them. Why didn't he tell them?
I believe that Jesus went to hell to save those that had come before his time on earth. Scratch one argument.
He didn't. It is garbage. Your god, your mythical Jesus, are a mish-mash of contemporary 1st century religions and pre-christian beliefs systems. Do you think the concept of Hell is a christian idea? Or the Trinity? Or baptism as a means of washing away sins? Or the belief in substantive sacrifice?
It is thought that those years that Christ was not around in public view had been spent in Tibet. There are stories, legends and written words about someone at that time that could have been Christ. Unfortunately, he didn't sign the hotel Registry.
Cor. 3:20 "The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vainâ€Â.
Psalm 94:11 "The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity".
Uh oh. Bible quoting athiest. Head for the hills boys and girls. Define "wise".
Gosh! Does that mean that all those god fearing, honest, decent men and women who lived before the Jesus myth became established will to go hell? They didn't know about hell. Your god forgot to tell them. Why didn't he tell them?
I believe that Jesus went to hell to save those that had come before his time on earth. Scratch one argument.
He didn't. It is garbage. Your god, your mythical Jesus, are a mish-mash of contemporary 1st century religions and pre-christian beliefs systems. Do you think the concept of Hell is a christian idea? Or the Trinity? Or baptism as a means of washing away sins? Or the belief in substantive sacrifice?
It is thought that those years that Christ was not around in public view had been spent in Tibet. There are stories, legends and written words about someone at that time that could have been Christ. Unfortunately, he didn't sign the hotel Registry.
Cor. 3:20 "The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vainâ€Â.
Psalm 94:11 "The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity".
Uh oh. Bible quoting athiest. Head for the hills boys and girls. Define "wise".
Hell, what is it?
kensloft :-6
I can appreciate your post. Well done. I like the "head for the hills".
Some folks clearly have no understanding of the faith called Christianity, or its background, or its history, or for the matter the nature and origins of the Bible. Unfortunately without some consideration of the spiritual things in life they simply keep their minds narrowed. Kind of like the Ayatollah Khomenie who had only ever read the Q'ran. What a narrow focus on life!
I personally accept the validity of all the great faiths of the world as man's search for and relationship with the Divine by whatever name they call him/her.
Shalom
Ted :-6
I can appreciate your post. Well done. I like the "head for the hills".
Some folks clearly have no understanding of the faith called Christianity, or its background, or its history, or for the matter the nature and origins of the Bible. Unfortunately without some consideration of the spiritual things in life they simply keep their minds narrowed. Kind of like the Ayatollah Khomenie who had only ever read the Q'ran. What a narrow focus on life!
I personally accept the validity of all the great faiths of the world as man's search for and relationship with the Divine by whatever name they call him/her.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Hell, what is it?
sagan wrote: And where in the bible does it say this Ken? There is no mention anywhere in the O.T. about hell. It is a purely N.T. construct. You may believe his alleged sacrifice covers those who came before him but this is just a rationalisation on your part, unsupported by any evidence. Nowhere does the bible use the past tense when addressing salvation; all references are in the present and future tense. The argument still stands.
Is the Bible the only book that had ever been written during those times? There ae other cultures tha did have hteir forms of the written word. The Japanese are even claiming that Christ finished up his life on earth in Japan. No bones. No DNA. No title or deed to the house.
Could have. Might have. Stories. Legends. Myth. More rationalisations Ken. And the written words outside the bible that are possibly/might/could be about the character known as Jesus don’t stand up to scrutiny.
The fact that they exist at all should stand for something as there is always a grain of truth in every story/legend/myth.
I’ve quoted a lot of works of fiction Ken. I don’t confine myself to the bible.
It is impossible to answer claims by believers in the bible without sometimes using it as a reference.
A judicious use of scepticism before taking the tribal myths, beliefs, and legends of credulous early societies as fact.
Scepticism is good. But scepticism doesn't mean that you should dismiss, outright, the beliefs and folklore of ancient tribes or civilizations. According to popular atheist belief there should be nothing other than the Bible to contend with and when something new is introduced things get a little tense. I don't know how well versed you are in Buddhist religion as it is in Tibet but I would think that it wouldn' hurt to look at it so that you can tear a few strips off of me down the road.
Is the Bible the only book that had ever been written during those times? There ae other cultures tha did have hteir forms of the written word. The Japanese are even claiming that Christ finished up his life on earth in Japan. No bones. No DNA. No title or deed to the house.
Could have. Might have. Stories. Legends. Myth. More rationalisations Ken. And the written words outside the bible that are possibly/might/could be about the character known as Jesus don’t stand up to scrutiny.
The fact that they exist at all should stand for something as there is always a grain of truth in every story/legend/myth.
I’ve quoted a lot of works of fiction Ken. I don’t confine myself to the bible.
It is impossible to answer claims by believers in the bible without sometimes using it as a reference. A judicious use of scepticism before taking the tribal myths, beliefs, and legends of credulous early societies as fact.
Scepticism is good. But scepticism doesn't mean that you should dismiss, outright, the beliefs and folklore of ancient tribes or civilizations. According to popular atheist belief there should be nothing other than the Bible to contend with and when something new is introduced things get a little tense. I don't know how well versed you are in Buddhist religion as it is in Tibet but I would think that it wouldn' hurt to look at it so that you can tear a few strips off of me down the road.