TERRI SCHIAVO~remove feeding tube?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:25 pm

41 year old Terri Schiavo has been in a vegetative state since 1990 and the subject of much litigation. today the US Supreme Court rejected an appeal from Florida Gov. Jeb Bush to prevent her feeding tube from being removed. Terri's parents contend she is responsive and that her husband Michael wants her dead so he can inherit and remarry. Michael contends Terri would not want to live in this condition. she can breathe on her own but is dependant on a feeding tube. if the tube is removed she will die within 7 to 14 days. this situation is fraught with many questions, what is your opinion?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:30 pm

Pull the plug.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:42 pm

Linask, my "old" friend...it is really nice to see you here! :-4 ...i suspect this topic could provoke much debate. the Supremes declined to comment, but this is not falling under assisted suicide, rather "right to die". But Terri had no living will, we only have her husband's word.

Hawke · Post by **Hawke** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:44 pm

I am not making an ethical judgment here, not being in full command of the facts, but if the decision is made to pull the feeding tube, then I would hope a euthanisation would be performed so that she may die without the suffering caused by starvation/dehydration.

Hmm...run-on sentence? I think so.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:45 pm

I don't know enough about the case OR the woman to make any judgements, but in my opinion, "assisted suicide" or "euthanasia" should be a totally personal choice and a private matter. We do it for dogs whose "quality of life" is no longer acceptable, or fair to the dog, why not do it for people as well? Why shouldn't people have control over their own lives and, ultimately, their own deaths? I'm going to run out now and make sure my will is up-to-date, so my future husband dosen't have these problems, should I end up in the same circumstances. My instructions will be clear: If I am being kept alive by machines...PULL THE PLUG!!!!

What a perfect topic for my black mood today!

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:51 pm

LinasK wrote: Exactly! And I don't trust his word, he wants to legally murder her so he can be free to be with another woman.
Wouldn't "legally murder" be an oxymoron?

How do you KNOW he wants her gone? Is this an opinion, or do you have something a bit more substantial to hold up this theory?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:44 pm

Terri's husband michael has lobbied to remove her feeding tube for years. he has also gone to court to keep her parents from seeing her, that is very disturbing to me . there is much more here than meets the eye. there is no "legal murder" there is" legal homicide", a lawful killing. this is neither, it is "right to die". he claims her right to die, her parents claim her right to live. frankly , if he wants to move on and remarry i have no problem with that. he can get a divorce. it is my opinion that he is in it for money/insurance. he has fought her parents at every turn. perhaps her parents aren't realistic, ok, who can blame them. but to not let them visit??

libertine · Post by **libertine** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:22 pm

But don't you think that after all these years any money that came from the financial setlement she received is gone. Keeping her alive can NOT be without cost.

I've wondered why the husband didn't just divorce her and remarry and let the parents foot the bill for awhile.

And, as has been stated before, without really knowing the people involved, a real judgement of right or wrong can't be made.

Der Wulf · Post by **Der Wulf** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:52 pm

I am a fanatic believer in the right to die. My living will requires no resuscitation, my family members have promised to not hesitate in "pulling the plug". I have a condition that will eventually leave me helpless, I don't intend to live that long.

To live at the mercy of others, to be unable to communicate, to be able to give nothing to those who love me --- that's not a life, it's torture.

I have little knowledge except news reports of the case, my opinion however is that the parents are being extraordinally selfesh, at their daughter's expense.

I fervently hope that eventually we will get past blind emotion and allow euthansia as a civil right. Should the right to die with dignity, be of less value than the right to live in peace?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:32 am

lady cop wrote: 41 year old Terri Schiavo has been in a vegetative state since 1990 and the subject of much litigation. today the US Supreme Court rejected an appeal from Florida Gov. Jeb Bush to prevent her feeding tube from being removed. Terri's parents contend she is responsive and that her husband Michael wants her dead so he can inherit and remarry. Michael contends Terri would not want to live in this condition. she can breathe on her own but is dependant on a feeding tube. if the tube is removed she will die within 7 to 14 days. this situation is fraught with many questions, what is your opinion?

If she's being kept alive by food, then to deprive her of it does not seem right to me. However, why is she in a "vegetative state"? Is there any chance of recovery at all? It is worth noting that recently (IIRC) someone in America "awoke" after being in a coma for nearly 20 years. If there's any doubt, keep her going, IMO.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Fyrehawke wrote: if the decision is made to pull the feeding tube, then I would hope a euthanisation would be performed so that she may die without the suffering caused by starvation/dehydration.

God's teeth. Is that legal in the 'States?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:39 am

libertine wrote: But don't you think that after all these years any money that came from the financial setlement she received is gone. Keeping her alive can NOT be without cost.

I've wondered why the husband didn't just divorce her and remarry and let the parents foot the bill for awhile.

Hm. If her family, of one sort or another, are paying for her treatment, what happens if they stop?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:31 am

argonaut wrote: Sure we could let her live. She would have a wonderful life bedridden. I am sure thats how most of us want to live.

Interesting. You'd rather die than be bedridden?

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:57 am

lady cop wrote: 41 year old Terri Schiavo has been in a vegetative state since 1990 and the subject of much litigation. today the US Supreme Court rejected an appeal from Florida Gov. Jeb Bush to prevent her feeding tube from being removed. Terri's parents contend she is responsive and that her husband Michael wants her dead so he can inherit and remarry. Michael contends Terri would not want to live in this condition. she can breathe on her own but is dependant on a feeding tube. if the tube is removed she will die within 7 to 14 days. this situation is fraught with many questions, what is your opinion?

Tough Situtation, the husband needs to have a life. Forget any money, divorce her and move on man. Let the parents contend to her, thats all they probably have to live for, i say get on with your life (husband). I think anyone in their right minds would not want to live that way? let the husband go one way and the parents the other...simple...do it!

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:27 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: Interesting. You'd rather die than be bedridden?
Consider this a loud, resounding, unequivocal YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:33 pm

LinasK; where did you find that information? if thats the case why would any-one want to give up on her? The husband needs to be set free, bye, bye...leave the tube. one needs to care for some-one in that state to see what the situation really is. The parents should be left to decide, why can't the husband just move on? :-1

Der Wulf · Post by **Der Wulf** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:30 pm

LinasK wrote: You admit you know little of this case, yet you claim to know that Terri is feeling tortured. You don't know what her cognitive abilities are, just because she can't speak DOES NOT mean she can't communicate. Have you seen the pictures of her smiling at her mother? Her quality of life may be different, but just because she requires a feeding tube because she can't swallow, I highly doubt she prefers death!!! Could you be the one to disconnect her tube personally? NOT ME. I happen to think her husband is the one who is extrordinarily selfish in this case, not her parents. You are the one operating on blind emotion. This girl is not brain-dead, only brain-injured. Her husband denied her having cognitive therapy!!!
I'll try to be gentle; at no point in my post did I "claim to know that Terri is feeling tortured". As stated, my information comes from news reports, if you have a better source, please post it, I'm educable.

According to several medical experts interviewed regarding her case, the lack of brainwaves under stimulus indicates no cognative function.

Perhaps you failed to read, or comprehend the first paragraph of my post. "I have a condition that will eventually leave me helpless, I don't intend to live that long" Unless you have experienced consistant high level pain, tortured nerves, atrophying limbs, and a dependence on others, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ACCUSE ME OF OPERATING ON BLIND EMOTION. I've confronted and acknowledged my mortality, and my ultimate demise. :-5

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:44 pm

LinasK wrote: You admit you know little of this case, yet you claim to know that Terri is feeling tortured. You don't know what her cognitive abilities are, just because she can't speak DOES NOT mean she can't communicate. Have you seen the pictures of her smiling at her mother? Her quality of life may be different, but just because she requires a feeding tube because she can't swallow, I highly doubt she prefers death!!! Could you be the one to disconnect her tube personally? NOT ME. I happen to think her husband is the one who is extrordinarily selfish in this case, not her parents. You are the one operating on blind emotion. This girl is not brain-dead, only brain-injured. Her husband denied her having cognitive therapy!!!
You are jumping on other people's perspectives of the situation without having all the facts yourself. How much of the case are you familiar with? Because you "highly doubt" she would prefer death, does not make it so. People are talking about quality of life. I'd say that that's a relative term. One person's definition of a "good" quality of life may not be another's. Were I in this poor woman's place, I would pray to be taken off any machine keeping me alive. My parents do not want extraordinary measures taken, my fiance does not either. And, funny thing, that seems to be the general consensus among a lot of the members here. So how can you say you doubt she would prefer death? A) you don't know and B) there seems to be a lot of opinions going the other direction.

I know you didn't ask me personally if I could pull the plug, but I'm going to tell you something anyway: When I worked as a vet tech, and I came across an animal that was suffering and had to be put down, it sucked every time I had to do it. But I was glad to be able to put a poor, suffering creature out of it's misery in a humane, peaceful way. To force the animal to live longer, in pain and miserable would constitute cruelty. Anyone charged with cruelty to animals in MI. is looking at a prison term. Kind of ironic, isn't it?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:51 am

argonaut wrote: Ok just being bedridden but semi-mobile (when I say this I mean being able to read, feed myself, talk) would not be so bad. But in her case Bill yes I belive death would be preferred.

I was just going to ask baby rider whether she knows what bedridden means! Just this second!

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:42 am

LinasK wrote: death by starvation and dehydration is cruel and painful.

Sorry, LinasK. That kind of death is NOT cruel or painful. My mother had ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease. It's a horrifying disease where the brain slowly disconnects from the body until you lose it all. No speech, no swallowing, no movement, no communication with the outside world nothing. You can no longer even wipe you own excrement from yourself. you are dependent on everyone for everything. Meanwhile your brain is still functioning perfectly in a body that has become a dead prison.

Is that life? Can it be life when you can no longer do or enjoy anything? She did not think so. What's really cruel is to continue to exist like that, draining your family's resources and wasting away.

My mother requested that when she reached the state where she was being kept alive by machines, she would choose to die. The doctors in California prepared her mentally and physically for this. They were very professional and caring. We all gathered with her for her final week to say goodbye.

At first she grew tired. The doctors prescribed morphine in slowly increasing dosages. We each stayed up with her on a 24 hour watch, gving her the morphine when she needed it. Finally, she passed quietly, with no pain, in her home, surrounded by her family and with the dignity she deserved.

You see, it only seems cruel to outsiders. When it happens to someone you love you will understand it better. :-1

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:04 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: I was just going to ask baby rider whether she knows what bedridden means! Just this second!
I'm not sure if this is meant to be funny, or a shot at my intelligence. Bedridden, the way argonaut describes it, would be no more preferable to me than being comatose. Having the ability to read and speak and feed myself but condemned to be taken care of by my family or nurses? Not able to be a functioning, productive part of society? Nope. Don't want it. I can't stand the past 4 days where I've been unable to walk around because of a blown knee and my fiance has had to wait on me hand and foot. So Bill, my previous assertion still stands. If a person wants to die in a manner they choose, they shoud be allowed to do so. Being a burden to my family is NOT an option.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:13 am

Originally Posted by LinasK

death by starvation and dehydration is cruel and painful.

Jives wrote: Sorry, LinasK. That kind of death is NOT cruel or painful.

I think it is very likely to be cruel and painful - fortunately, that does not seem, from what you wrote, to be what happened to your mother (sympathy for your loss).

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:15 am

Originally Posted by Bill Sikes

I was just going to ask baby rider whether she knows what bedridden means! Just this second!

BabyRider wrote: I'm not sure if this is meant to be funny, or a shot at my intelligence.

Had I asked it, it would have been meant as a question.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:52 am

Bill Sikes wrote: I think it is very likely to be cruel and painful - fortunately, that does not seem, from what you wrote, to be what happened to your mother (sympathy for your loss).

thanks for the kimd words, Bill. You know, I guess we're in a gray area here. Is it the lesser of two evils we seek? Is it cruel and painful to forceably end a invalid's life? Or is it more cruel and painful for forceably extend it?

I could use the old standby argument that we shoot horses that are permanently crippled...but of course a human is not an animal.

Still...I, myself, would never want to live only by being connected to machines. :-3

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:07 pm

Jives wrote:

I could use the old standby argument that we shoot horses that are permanently crippled...but of course a human is not an animal.

:-3
To be annoyingly technical, humans are indeed animals. And shooting a horse who is lame is humane. Putting a pet to sleep that is suffering is humane. I've done it hundreds of times. I hope that if I am in a situation where my life is sustained by machines, or I am in horrible pain, or a burden to my family, that someone will be kind enough to come along and slip a needle into my vein, giving me the quiet, peaceful passing that we give our pets.

(Jives, I'm just pickin' on you about the 'technicality'....:yh_bigsmi)

LoveMama · Post by **LoveMama** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:44 pm

I've followed this case from the beginning. This woman has feelings , she can follow things with her eyes......she is not on a respirator, she only only needs to be tube fed because she can't swallow. She smiles, she is aware and she is in NO pain. She may recover some day.

One of my closest friends has a daughter who is in the same condition and has been for 6 years. She would never ever let go of her daughter.,,who by the way was her only child and best friend.

I know my friends daughter. She was at my home for Thanksgiving dinner twice.

She was is still is a beautiful young woman. In her case she had a blood clot go to the base of her brain. The doctors said she would be a vegatable,. Well, she isn't. She is completely aware of her surrouondings, she just can't speak.

She communicates by blinking her eyes.

If this had happened to any of my five children I would never ever give up,

NEVER This woman's husband is look for money....somehow he get some insurance money is she is dead. He is a perfect A. H.

What ever happened to the vow, 'Til death do us part' ?

Her mother and father are the ones here who love her the most! Pretty obvious.

She is in prayers everyday....that she may recover fully.

xxxxxo

mama

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:49 am

OK, now I'm starting to come over to your side, LinusK. I mean what blasted difference does it make if she listens to a CD? If nothing else, at least it might calm the people visiting her. (Oh, that's right nobody is allowed to visit anymore.) I think they are losing perspective now.

Oh, and sorry for your experiences, too, Linus. I don't get it, though....didn't they give your loved one those super-powerful painkillers that they reserve for terminal cancer patients? Why did the docs allow him/her to suffer?

If I am dying in pain, I want some SERIOUS drugs! Break out the Quaaludes and the morphine!

Oh, and I did die once, from a wasting disease. That's right my heart stopped and I got the whole near-death, seeing-yourself-from outside-your own-body thing. But that's a story for another post.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:07 pm

Has Terri been given a wine via feeding tube? A small amount to see if she really knows what is going on? Get her to get a buzz and see what happens? hey what the hell at this point?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:22 pm

evidently Terri has never had legal representation....her parents have now filed a motion to have one appointed. so the court will probably appoint an attorney or guardian ad litum and that will mean a lot more time while the guardian studies the case.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:25 pm

Sheesh. This whole thread reminds me of a saying that I should probably think about more often..

"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:01 pm

{{{{ Hi LinasK }}}}

welcome to the Garden

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:37 am

LinasK wrote:

It's cruelty, plain and simple, to starve anyone. "

What if they want to starve themselves?

jahamaa · Post by **jahamaa** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:21 am

my opinion is that I'm glad there are some decisions that are not mine to make.

God bless her and her family I hope all concerned have only her best interest a heart.

LoveMama · Post by **LoveMama** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:25 am

Here's the story to date on

Miracles From Coma Woman

Kinda changes some people's mind on what could happen to Terri Schiavo.

xxxxooooooo

HUTCHINSON, Kansas, Feb. 11, 2005

Sarah's parents and Dr. Bradley Scheel *(Photo: CBS/The Early Show)

"Rather than speaking about Sarah, it became very clear she was speaking to Sarah. It was the most amazing feeling in the world."

Jim Scantlin, on being told Sarah was speaking again

(CBS)*Not only is Sarah Scantlin speaking after suddenly awakening from the coma-like state she'd been in for 20 years, she's displaying "uncanny recall," her father says.

And Sarah's doctor says she seems to improve by the day.

Sarah, who was was in a hit-and-run accident when she was 18 that left her in the coma-like state, began speaking, out of the blue, a week ago. Doctors have no explanation.

Jim Scantlin, Sarah's father, told The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith that, before that, his daughter was "basically unresponsive, in the regular sense of the word 'alert.' She was able to do eye contact and was very aware of her surroundings, but otherwise, physically, she was completely incapable of doing anything."

Sarah's mother, Betsy Scantlin, says Sarah actually started to make some noises a couple of years ago. "We didn't have any idea what that meant," she said to Smith. "We just knew it was a noise that she hadn't made for 18 years, and the people -- it's kind of like having a baby. You kind of learn to know the sounds, and they could kind of tell whether she wanted her TV changed or she was hurting or something, but otherwise, nothing."

Jim recounted the phone call he and Betsy got, informing them of the unimaginable: "It was amazing. I'm in the living room. Betsy was in the computer area, and the phone rings, and I'm immediately aware that it's the nursing homeÃ¢â‚¬Â¦where (Sarah) resides.

"And suddenly, I'm aware that there's a profound, distinct difference. Rather than speaking about Sarah, it became very clear she was speaking to Sarah. It was the most amazing feeling in the world."

Besty says she's "still stunned" to be hearing Sarah's voice again. "There's just no words. Twenty years ago, I cried a lot. This week, all I've done is laugh because, when I heard her say, 'Hi Mom,' I said, 'Sarah, is that you?' And she said, 'Yeah.' And all I can do is just say -- I've just laughed ever since, because it's just so amazing."

What's more, Jim says Sarah is showing "uncanny recall. It's amazing how -- considering how severe and profound her injury was, her ability to recall -- it's astonishing."

Sarah's doctor, Bradley Scheel, adds that, "It's just been amazing. We're all thrilled. And it seems, almost from day to day, she's able to make more responses. We're really anxious to see how she does from here.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:07 pm

as of next tuesday, there is no legal impediment to removing Terri's feeding tube. (unless there is another stay from the court). that means her husband can and will instruct the medical staff to remove the tube. the lawyer for Terri's parents came out and pulled no punches, called the husband a monster, and says that his home and job will be picketed. he has lived with and had children with another woman, and could have divorced Terri at any time so her parents could be her guardians. so i suspect there's money coming to him when she passes.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:38 am

Feb. 22, 1300, florida court of appeals has cleared the way for the feeding tube to be removed. and the husband's lawyer has said it will be done as soon as possible.,,,,,,,,,,,edited to add, court has allowed a temporary stay until 1700 (5 PM) eastern wednesday.

Beth · Post by **Beth** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:11 am

They are trying to get a law through the state Senate to take away guardianship from a spouse who is cohabitating with another person because that person no longer may have the best interest of his or her spouse in mind. The lawmakers came through last time, even though it was with an unconstitutional bill I hope they come through again, but this time with a more constitutionally sound bill. This may do the ticket. I feel a little squeemish, though, I am actually siding with the right to lifers/pro-life movement. There is just no living will and that man could have made up what he claims to be Terri's intentions.

I'm glad the court entered the stay and I hope that the judge allows for more technologically advanced tests to be done.