WW3 - New World Order - Pole Shift - Age of Peace (2006-2012)

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: Here we go round the Mary-go-round Spot.

Here's a link from the fricken Council on Foreign Relations that claims that Keyshore made the claim!!

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/author/ki ... index.html
You're demented - click it, go and see what it says - it's an index of articles. Of course he wrote an article. YOUR CLAIMED TEXT DOESN'T APPEAR IN IT!

I don't often raise my voice.

[TruthBringer]

Come on...bring it Spot.

I want to see you back out of this one.

I just posted the f-ckin article man.

Now what do you have to say?

Let me guess...



bbb--bbut---Truthbringer, you didn't show me the proof yet.

[TruthBringer]

So first it was that he never had an article.

Then I showed you that there was.

Now you are claiming that that quote doesn't appear in the article...

And I bet you I can prove that it does.

[TruthBringer]

End of preview: first 500 of 3,579 words total.



That was only the first 500 words of his article. To get the rest I guess you have to sign up or something.

So.....in order to find the quote you would have to read the rest of the 3,070 words. And you haven't done that yet. So how can you sit here and tell me that he never said it?

Unfortunately I do not wish to sign up or pay for the article, so until somebody posts the entire article on this board and proves that he never said that China will have the greatest economy in 2020, then I guess the facts are clear my friend, and I guess that what I said was correct all along.

[TruthBringer]

By the way I already proved with all of the other links that kishore-mahbubani DID say that China will have the greatest economy by 2020 so there really is no point to debate this any longer.

The article does exist...and Kishore did project that in 2020, China will have the greatest economy in the World. Both of those claims I have proven.

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: So first it was that he never had an article.

Then I showed you that there was.

Now you are claiming that that quote doesn't appear in the article...

And I bet you I can prove that it does.That is so much of a witless invention. First it was http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... tcount=323 as anyone can see just by looking at the thread - it's been:

Would you like to show us - since their entire full-text editions are there online - where he wrote "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century."?from the word go. Those words are not the words of your claimed author Kishore Mahbubani.

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: So.....in order to find the quote you would have to read the rest of the 3,070 words. And you haven't done that yet. So how can you sit here and tell me that he never said it?Because, you half-baked crackpot, I can read the entire journal on the university online library.

[TruthBringer]

spot wrote: That is so much of a witless invention. First it was http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... tcount=323 as anyone can see just by looking at the thread - it's been:

from the word go. Those words are not the words of your claimed author Kishore Mahbubani.


lol. Spot..I told you I am done. Are you going to purchase the article from the COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS or not? Because if you are not, I am done with you.

[TruthBringer]

By the way Spot, sorry for calling you all those names, but you really got under my skin there.

You are not a dip stick, or a dumb ass, but you are definately persistent. I'll give you that. Persistent to prove me wrong though. lol.

This thread is not about me bro. So you can come off of your high horse now, and realize that what I am trying to do with this thread is to help people, and to expose the Truth.

I have no idea what your purpose is here in my thread, but so far I can honestly say that you have contributed nothing positive to it at all.

[spot]

OK, there's some people in this thread who will be interested in the result and who get immediate notification of posts that include the full text. This is copyright material, right? I'm going to post it here, full text, simply because I've just read it in full (not that I needed to in order to scotch this monstrous egotist who has no idea of the relevance of accurate citation, or the appalling folly of inventing material and putting it into the mouths of genuine academics).

So, for five minutes only and a few emails out, here's the entire text of the article in question. I'm then going to edit the post, delete the article, and leave this stub as an indication of where we've got to.

The reason is twofold:

Firstly, the quoted text (as was blatantly obvious from the word go) isn't in here at all.

Secondly, the sense of the article itself is the diametric opposite of the claptrap that "TruthBringer" has been spewing onto the forum, and I quite like it. I'll give a few permanent extracts:

The difficulty that Western minds face in grasping the arrival of East Asia arises from the fact that we are witnessing an unprecedented historical phenomenon: a fusion of Western and East Asian cultures in the Asia-Pacific region. It is this fusion, not a renaissance of ancient Asian glories, that explains the explosive growth of the Pacific and provides the possibility of continued peace and prosperity in the region.

[...] IT IS DIFFICULT for a European or North American to understand the momentousness of the psychological revolution in East Asia because they cannot step into East Asian minds. Their minds have never been wrapped in colonialism. They have never struggled with the subconscious assumption that perhaps they were second-rate human beings, never good enough to be number one. The growing realization of East Asians that they can do anything as well as, if not better than, other cultures has led to an explosion of confidence.

[...] Learning requires humility. Fortunately, Americans are an openhearted and compassionate people. They carry no hubris from history, as Europeans do. This explains why the United States has been the most benevolent great power in history. Any European nation with such power would have used it to advance its national interests. America pushed an idea, and it has contributed in a sterling fashion to uplifting East Asian society. East Asia could not be where it is today if not for the generosity of the American spirit. The bright young East Asian minds driving the region's economic effervescence come increasingly from American universities. They will be the human bridges between East and West in the Pacific. There are now hundreds of thousands of them scattered all over the Asia-Pacific region, creating and strengthening the networks that are driving the region's prosperity.

[...] THE ROAD ahead may not be smooth. No historical road has ever been. There will be many a stumble before the Pacific community is perceived to have arrived, and each stumble will bring out a chorus of skeptics. But the long-term direction has been set. Across the Pacific, the traffic on trade, investment, information, aviation, cultural, and educational highways is increasing by leaps and bounds. The growing interest in sustaining this economic boom is sweeping aside intractable problems like China's most-favored-nation status, and it is forcing Beijing and Washington to behave rationally toward each other.


Nothing whatever about "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century", but a great deal of sense about peace and cooperation.

FULL TEXT NOW REMOVED

I think I skated close to the edge of good behavior there. I'll skate a little further and say if any of you need a look and didn't get the full text post, you can ask me and I'll PM it to you. (TruthBringer, I can't PM the whole thing until you clear your inbox... TruthBringer has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space)

TruthBringer wrote: I provided legitimate sites on the internet that all state that this guy Keshore (whom I do not know and have never met personally), is going around telling the World that China will have the greatest economy by 2020.
Shall I tell you what's really funny? You've just listed a batch of demonstrably suspect sites all of which carry the same fake quotation, and I didn't have to lift a finger to gather them for exhibition.

TruthBringer wrote: I have no idea what your purpose is here in my thread, but so far I can honestly say that you have contributed nothing positive to it at all.
On the contrary, what I've tried to show is that you're flinging these posts at us with only the most superficial idea of how corrupt the stuff you're copying is. I said from the start with perfect confidence that Kishore Mahbubani didn't write the sentence that you ascribed to him, and even you must be quite convinced by now that I'm right. Had I looked beforehand to be so sure? No, of course not. Was I right? Yes, of course I was.

How did I know? Because anyone with the slightest clue would recognise that the Permanent Secretary of Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Dean of the Civil Service College wouldn't use the expression "Red Chinese" in reference to the People's Republic. It would be an insane notion from the start.

What I'm trying to show you, and by God it's taking a long time, is that while you have a very deep-rooted faith in your convictions, you have no discrimination. You see something you can fit into your thesis and you transfer it without applying any critical thought. "A" for effort, "D minus" for brainwork. All I did was pick one of your source citations at random, but I've surely shown the likelihood that others are equally polluted.

What I'm also trying to show you is that if you shut up and listen as well as speak, you can learn. You can improve. You can perhaps, eventually, reach a point where people will change their minds because you're finally capable of carrying conviction as well as blatant undoubting faith. The way you've started out on here, you've moved nobody's mindset in your direction at all - at a guess, you've settled on peoples' minds that the ideas you espouse are only held by cranks.

So, I have a suggestion. Carry on posting in the old way on all the other boards you're festering, if that helps you live with your compulsion, but treat this one as a place for self-improvement. Don't just talk - ask. Say something you hold to be true and get feedback from people who can consider your axioms and evidence objectively. Adjust what you believe in the light of what you hear, to the extent that what you hear carries weight with you. I guarantee that you'll come out of the experience with a better argument than the one you're currently hawking.

Now, are we engaged in dialog at this point, or are are we back to watching a display of your obsessions?

[TruthBringer]

Spot, I don't care what you say, the basis of his article was how China will become the biggest World Economy by 2020. And he even states that in his article. You posted a very little piece of the article, and that didn't even scratch the surface of it. And then you pretended like it was the whole thing, and that everything is ok now even though I wooped you last night in our little debate when you first stated that no such article existed, and I proved you wrong, and now as I would expect you are just trying to cover up your tracks.

By the way, this goes for everyone on this board who has faith in what I am posting about....and who is willing to do the research for themselves and find out how this stuff all ties together for the coming World War that we WILL be experiencing if we don't change things soon, and the New World Order that the "Controllers" have planned for us all.

I am going to continue to post my work. And I expect people like Spot to keep on trying to stop me, for no apparent reason other than either A. He is ignorant. B. He is jealous or angry that people are starting to believe that there actually is a New World Order coming if we allow for it to happen. Or C. He just plain likes to argue and accuse people that he doesn't even know of things such as being outright liars. Of which he has proven to me already should be a title that befalls on him. At least for the moment.

Well let me tell you something Spot. You don't know me. And if you are that ignorant to think that I would come on here and post every single day that I can (when I am not working or with my girlfriend or family), to post something that I believe in 100% and that I personally know in my heart is the Truth, if you think for two seconds that you can convince people that I would do all of this just for show, and that I haven't done my own research beforehand, and that none of this is True and that you are right and that all of this information is wrong, then you have another thing coming.

First of all, I noticed in your last post that you stated that "On the contrary, what I've tried to show is that you're flinging these posts at us with only the most superficial idea of how corrupt the stuff you're copying is."

Well guess what Spot. None of my information is "Corrupt" as you like to call it. And if it is, then please explain how? Really, I would like to see a full report on how the information that I am posting is "corrupt". You wouldn't even know where to begin. All you did was take one little quote out of the hundreds of different subjects and posts that I have been talking about here and tried to attack it with everything you had. And in the end, you still lost. But to think that you would have the balls to claim that every other post that I have posted on this board is "corrupt", when you haven't even looked into any of them enough to say that, then that tells me that you are a fool. And I mean that respectfully of course. Honesty is the best policy. Hence my name on this board.

Anyways, I plan to put you on ignore status from now on. If I ever see you post in my direction I will ignore your post no matter how much you try and get me to respond to it. I have come to the conclusion that your posts are not very intelligent in the sense that they are always directed towards me and my persona and that you never have anything of value to add to the conversation other than to say that "TruthBringer is a liar" or "TruthBringer is posting corruption". Nobody wants to hear that man. All you do is post smoke. And you never back it up. So by all means post in my thread all you want to Spot, but from now on I will not be responding to your comments. And I hope you have a nice life and that you will one day become open minded enough to see the Truth in what I'm saying here. Even if it does take 50 years for you. Or possibly more. =)

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: Spot, I don't care what you say, the basis of his article was how China will become the biggest World Economy by 2020. And he even states that in his article. You posted a very little piece of the article, and that didn't even scratch the surface of it. And then you pretended like it was the whole thing, and that everything is ok now even though I wooped you last night in our little debate when you first stated that no such article existed, and I proved you wrong, and now as I would expect you are just trying to cover up your tracks.You didn't actually read it, then. Or, indeed, what I've been saying. I said your quoted passage wasn't written by the man, and it wasn't. I said the article is the complete opposite of what you portrayed, and it is. It does not, in fact, anywhere, say that China will become the biggest World Economy by 2020. Here it is, since regardless of copyright issues it's apparent that I need to post it.



From Foreign Affairs, January/February 1995

The Pacific Way

Kishore Mahbubani

A CULTURAL FUSION

KISHORE MAHBUBANI is Permanent Secretary of Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Dean of the Civil Service College. These are his personal views.

THE SIGNIFICANT difference between the 21st century and the preceding centuries is that there will be three centers of world power (Europe, North America, and East Asia) as opposed to two in the twentieth (Europe and North America) and one before that (Europe). Eor centuries Europe set the course of world history: it colonized distant parts of the world, it shook up other empires and societies (including China, India, Japan, and Islam), and its people occupied relatively empty places (North America and Australasia). In the twentieth century the two World Wars and the succeeding Cold War were essentially European struggles. East Asia, by contrast, had little impact on the rest of the world.

The world is greatly indebted to Europe. The huge creative burst there over the past five centuries has carried mankind to where it is today. Conceivably (judging from the progress made between the tenth and fifteenth centuries), we could still be only a few steps away from the Dark Ages. Europe has carried the world on its shoulders. Now East Asia has arrived on the world stage. Its sheer economic weight will give it a voice and a role. As recently as i960, Japan and East Asia together accounted for 4 percent of world GNP, while the United States, Canada, and Mexico represented 37 percent. Today both groups have about the same share ofthe world's GNP (some 24 percent each), but, with more than half the world's economic growth taking place in Asia in the 1990s, the economies of North America and Europe will progressively become relatively smaller.

Western thinkers are having considerable difficulty finding the right paradigm to describe a world where non-Western powers are emerging. Their natural impulse is to assume that, as they succeed, these powers will become more like Western societies (an assumption implicit in the "end of history" thesis) or that there will be a "clash of civilizations." Neither is likely. The difficulty that Western minds face in grasping the arrival of East Asia arises from the fact that we are witnessing an unprecedented historical phenomenon: a fusion of Western and East Asian cultures in the Asia-Pacific region. It is this fusion, not a renaissance of ancient Asian glories, that explains the explosive growth of the Pacific and provides the possibility of continued peace and prosperity in the region.

ASIA'S TIME IN THE SUN

MOST STRATEGIC analysts assume that Europe's experience provides the only good basis from which to extrapolate East Asia's future. Consequently, conventional wisdom on East Asia's prospects carries more pessimism than optimism. Richard K. Betts says that "one ofthe reasons for optimism about peace in Europe is the apparent satisfaction of the great powers with the status quo," while in East Asia there is "an ample pool of festering grievances, with more potential for generating conflict than during the Cold War, when bipolarity helped stifle the escalation of parochial disputes." Aaron L. Eriedberg says, "While civil war and ethnic strife will continue for some time to smoulder along Europe's peripheries, in the long run it is Asia that seems far more likely to be the cockpit of great power confiict. The half millennium during which Europe was the world's primary generator of war (as well as wealth and knowledge) is coming to a close. But, for better or for worse, Europe's past could be Asia's future."

Many Asians fear that such passages are not merely analytical predictions, but indicate the wish of status quo powers that East Asia not surpass them. This tendency to extrapolate the future of East Asia and the Pacific from the past of Europe reveals an intellectual blindness: the inability to see that non-Europeans may have reached a stage of development where they can progress without having to repeat Europe's mistakes.

It cannot be an accident that the Pacific region, which has experienced some of the greatest wars of the twentieth century, is now the most peaceful. Deeper forces must be at work. The most important is the growing realization of East Asians that their moment in history has come; they can finally join the league of developed societies. They also know that, having missed this boat before, they could well do so again if they get entangled in war or conflict.

KEEPING UP WITH THE CHENS

IT IS DIFFICULT for a European or North American to understand the momentousness of the psychological revolution in East Asia because they cannot step into East Asian minds. Their minds have never been wrapped in colonialism. They have never struggled with the subconscious assumption that perhaps they were second-rate human beings, never good enough to be number one. The growing realization of East Asians that they can do anything as well as, if not better than, other cultures has led to an explosion of confidence.

This confidence is bolstered by their awareness that the time needed to catch up with the developed world is getting shorter. The period that nations require to double economic output per person is shortening: Britain took 58 years (from 1780), the United States 47 years (from 1839), Japan 33 years (from the 1880s), Indonesia 17 years, South Korea 11 years, and China 10 years. The reasons are complex but include the faster spread of technology, ideas, techniques, and capital across borders.

East Asians are also increasingly aware that, in contrast to many European nations, they are getting their fundamentals right. Many European thinkers celebrate the implantation of democracy in their societies as an unmitigated good, especially since it prevents wars. But democracies can be resistant to change and, as demonstrated by Russia, even prevent rapid economic development. Europe's heavy welfare burden cannot be shed easily, especially since it is often passed to future generations. The U.S. Congressional Budget Office recently forecast that for an American infant born in 1994, the tax requirement needed to pay for existing programs will be 82 percent of his lifetime earnings. William Rees-Mogg notes that "this figure is obviously unsupportable," but adds that "government spending in Europe is actually higher than it is in the U.S."-^ The inability of democratic systems to shed welfare burdens suggests that in future economic competition. Western Europe and North America will be hobbled by this competitive disadvantage.

If East Asia's great economic success had occurred in the nineteenth century, there would have been a natural impulse to see it, as Japan did, in terms of acceptability in the then-premier Club of Europe. Today East Asians have moved away from that assumption. They realize that it will be a struggle to work out social, political, and philosophical norms that best capture their peoples' aspirations. It will not be easy to develop new concepts in sensitive areas like democracy, human rights, and freedom of the press. But to continue to progress, East Asia will have to do so. The stupidest thing that any East Asian society could do is to turn away from these overwhelming challenges and engage in military rivalries: to snatch failure one more time from the jaws of victory.

EUROPE'S MISTAKES

CONVENTIONAL STRATEGIC thinkers are likely to be unmoved by the great human drama unfolding in East Asia. They focus either on ancient and smoldering rivalries or arms races in the Asia-Pacific region. Barry Buzan and Gerald Segal recently said that "Asia is in danger of heading back to the future," one fraught with tension and conflict. They add that "Europe, in particular, and the West, in general, constitute advanced and richly developed international societies. What is distinctive about Asia is its combination of several industrialised societies with a regional international society so impoverished in its development that it compares poorly with even Africa and the Middle East."

There is a kernel of truth in this portrayal. No West European country faces the imminent prospect of a border war. By contrast, the prospect of war remains alive in East Asia. But when a broader perspective is taken, a difFerent picture emerges. The guns are virtually silent in the Asia-Pacific region, while Europe as a continent is surrounded by a "ring of fire" stretching from North Africa to the Caucasus. From the confiict in Georgia to the explosions waiting to burst in Kosovo, Macedonia, and Albania, more lives are lost daily on the periphery of Europe than in the entire Asia-Pacific region, which has a much larger population.

The contrast between Europe and the Asia-Pacific region is not an accident of history: it is a product of three mistakes made by Europe. The first is Europe's assumption that it can secure peace by concentrating on internal unification while detaching itself from its periphery. Yet all the efforts to either deepen unification via the Maastricht treaty or widen it by including similar European countries are tantamount to rearranging the living-room furniture while floodwaters are seeping in from the rising tides just outside the door. It is puzzling that Europe is trying to cut off its neighbors, excluding them from growth and prosperity. By contrast, the impulse in East Asia is to draw societies into the region's dynamism, starting with Myanmar and Vietnam and eventually including even North Korea.

The second European assumption is that others will model themselves after Europe, that the natural progression of history will lead to all societies becoming liberal, democratic, and capitalist. This assumption creates an inability to accept that other cultures or social forms may have equal validity. An essay in The Economist^ "Islam and the West," for instance, assumes that for Islamic societies to progress, they must become more Western.^ Not once does it suggest that the West may have something to learn from Islam. In contrast, although both the world s most populous Islamic state (Indonesia) and its most economically successful (Malaysia) are in the Asia-Pacific region, no one there suggests that they should be remade into some other model. A belief in the universality of one's ideas can lead to an inability to accept the principle of diversity. The Asia-Pacific region is used to diversity; Europe is not.

A third fiaw is Europe's effort to lock in its relatively high living standards by raising clever new barriers to free trade and sustaining high subsidies. Here the contrast between American and European strategies is striking. The United States has taken the bold step of crossing a cultural and socioeconomic divide by entering into a free trade agreement with Mexico. The only permanent solution to the inevitable long-term problem of illegal immigration is for Europe to do the same.^

In pursuing such flawed approaches, Europe may be accentuating the contrast between the continent and its neighborhood, thus developing potentially destabilizing geopolitical fault lines. By contrast, the geopolitical fault lines in the Asia-Pacific region are gradually being stabilized.

A TWO-WAY STREET

THOSE WHO live and travel in the Asia-Pacific region can feel that they are moving into a new epoch in which the incomes of most will double or treble in their lifetimes. They can By from Hong Kong to Vancouver, from Seoul to Los Angeles, from Tokyo to Hawaii, or from Kuala Lumpur to Sydney and yet not feel that they have crossed a cultural divide. They feel at home in most corners ofthe Pacific. A sense of community is emerging. But to many it seems like an apparition. Robert A. Manning and Paula Stern capture this skepticism: "Yet even now, as the Asia-Pacific's regional institutions are in embryonic form, a host of economic, political, military, and psychological trends suggests that the cherished aspiration”a common psychology of belonging, refiecting shared interests, responsibilities, values and mutual respect”may prove to be a chimera."^

It is perfectly understandable for Manning and Stern to experience difficulty nailing down the sense of community in the Pacific. There is still a long way to go before it is fully realized. Nothing like it has been experienced before. The Pacific community will be a completely new creation. It will not be an Asian community, nor will it be an American community. If the Pacific has emerged as the most dynamic region of the world, it is because it has drawn on the best practices and values from many rich civilizations, Asian and Western. If this fusion continues to work, there could be explosive creativity on a scale never before seen.

Some explosions have already occurred, Japan provides the best example. Culturally, it remams quintessentially Japanese, but its civil administration (with arguably the most powerful Westernized bureaucracy in the world), business, science, and technology are among the best. It has modernized and is no longer a feudal society. Several key imperial ceremonies are conducted in European coattails. But there is no doubt that the Japanese remain Japanese. Their homes are Japanese. Their souls are Japanese. Although many Japanese teenagers look like their European or American counterparts, their value systems, though changing, remain fundamentally Japanese. They bow deeply and behave reverentially toward their elders. There is relatively little juvenile delinquency or crime. The glue that holds Asian societies and families together has not been weakened by modernization.

To many, this is an economic and industrial miracle. But this success is due neither to Japanese culture nor Western methods; it is the result of the combination of both. In the long run, American society will do as well as Japan when it undergoes a similar osmosis, absorbing the best of Asian civilization. The real success of the Pacific community will come when the learning process in the Pacific becomes a two-way street rather than a one-way street. It took a long time for China and other East Asian societies to accept the commonsensical advice of Yukichi Fukuzawa, the Meiji-era reformer: to progress, learn from the West. Many American intellectuals still believe that all the deep wells of learning are in Europe. Those who travel across the Pacific come to learn about, but not from, East Asia. There is a profound difference between these two approaches. In the past few years, many Americans have been disconcerted by lectures from East Asians, as have many East Asians by American preachings on democracy and human rights. It will take time for both sides to learn to listen to each other.

Learning requires humility. Fortunately, Americans are an openhearted and compassionate people. They carry no hubris from history, as Europeans do. This explains why the United States has been the most benevolent great power in history. Any European nation with such power would have used it to advance its national interests. America pushed an idea, and it has contributed in a sterling fashion to uplifting East Asian society. East Asia could not be where it is today if not for the generosity of the American spirit. The bright young East Asian minds driving the region's economic effervescence come increasingly from American universities. They will be the human bridges between East and West in the Pacific. There are now hundreds of thousands of them scattered all over the Asia-Pacific region, creating and strengthening the networks that are driving the region's prosperity.

History teaches us that trade and investment bring not just money and goods, but also ideas. The explosion of two-way trade and investment cannot leave the two cultural universes across the Pacific intact. Over time a fiision will take place. When such fusion is perceived by the American body politic as positive and reinvigorating, it will strengthen America's commitment to the regions security. Good economics leads to good security, especially when all the major powers perceive that they have a common vested interest in the rising economic tide.

CREATING ASIAN NETWORKS

IT WOULD be foolish to deny that the region faces serious problems: the North Korean nuclear crisis, the Cambodian conflict, the ChinaTaiwan tension, the disputes over the Spratly Islands, and, in the long run, the triangular balance of power between the United States, China, and Japan. These are difficult issues that are not likely to be settled quickly. If the powerful combination of NATO, the European Union (EU), and the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) has been unable to resolve the problems of Algeria or Bosnia, relatively new institutions like the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum or the Association of Southeast Asian Nations' Regional Forum (ARF) are clearly not able to solve any major conflict that may surface.

Fortunately, the threat of conflict in the Asia-Pacific region is receding. The North Korean nuclear crisis has been defused for now. Longer term, it is inevitable that the region will draw North Korea away from its Stalinist isolation to become more like China or Vietnam. The Khmer Rouge have not disappeared, but they stand out more and more like debris left behind on a beach by the ebbing tide. Their moment has come and gone.

The discomfort between China and Taiwan has risen in the past few months. The potential for misunderstanding is always there. But this has to be balanced against the dramatic growth of trade, investment, and human contact across the Taiwan Straits. The chemistry ofthe China-Taiwan relationship has changed irrevocably. Similarly, while the territorial issues in the Spratly Islands will not be resolved easily, there is virtually no danger of a military conflict there. In short, the trend on each particular Asia-Pacific problem demonstrates that a larger dynamic is working to defuse and dissolve tensions. Two sets of examples demonstrate how much has changed in the Asia-Pacific region. Five years ago, neither Algeria nor Bosnia were in the news. Myanmar and Cambodia were then perceived to be insoluble. Today the reverse is true. Surely some ofthe explanation for this must be the diflerent regional dynamics. That a country as large and distant as India has finally become excited about joining the Pacific community, shaking a deep-seated historical tendency to look west rather than east, suggests that the Pacific region is experiencing a new historical phenomenon.

A different dynamic is evolving in the Atlantic and the Pacific regions. The Atlantic believes in building strong institutions: NATO, the EU, and the CSCE. Together they ensure that none of their members is threatened by a military invasion. But in an era when such outright military invasions are inconceivable outside the usual tinderbox regions ofthe world (the Middle East and South Asia), these powerful institutions seem powerless to either defend their members from nontraditional sources of insecurity, such as rising immigration or terrorism, or snuff out nearby conflicts, such as those in Algeria or Bosnia.

The Pacific has no comparable institutions. Instead, it is creating networks that are inclusive rather than exclusive. And contrary to the conventional wisdom in many European textbooks on international relations, the formation of these networks is driven not by the major powers but by medium-sized or small powers. None of the recent regional initiatives were either conceived or developed in major capitals. Indeed the leadership has come from the smaller or medium powers, APEC was conceived and driven by Australia and ARF by the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. In both cases, their corporate cultures are very different from those of their Atlantic equivalents. APEC and ARF are likely to experience difficulties as they grow. In both»there is tension between the institution-building impulses ofthe Anglo-Saxon participants and the consensus-building impulses of the Asian participants. But those who assume that East-West differences will be the main divide may be in for a surprise. Indonesia has joined Australia and Singapore in pushing for faster progress in APEC. Japan, China, and Malaysia want to hold back. But in ARF, Japan joins the United States in pushing for a faster pace of evolution. In APEC and ARF, the interest of all participants in sustaining economic dynamism, peace, and stability leads to a pragmatic spirit of accommodation and consensus. The corporate cultures evolving in both trade groups are neither exclusively Western nor Asian. A unique blend is emerging.

A NEW RELATIONSHIP

THE ROAD ahead may not be smooth. No historical road has ever been. There will be many a stumble before the Pacific community is perceived to have arrived, and each stumble will bring out a chorus of skeptics. But the long-term direction has been set. Across the Pacific, the traffic on trade, investment, information, aviation, cultural, and educational highways is increasing by leaps and bounds. The growing interest in sustaining this economic boom is sweeping aside intractable problems like China's most-favored-nation status, and it is forcing Beijing and Washington to behave rationally toward each other.

So far, it is mainly East Asians that are experiencing the fruits of die cultural fusion of East and West, while North Americans and Australians are being drawn to the region by sheer economic logic. But the explosion of contacts must eventually lead to a two-way process of cultural osmosis. That day is coming. An even more intriguing prospect is the possibility of Europe and East Asia coming together in a new spirit. It is conceivable that the three new centers of global power”Europe, North America, and East Asia”will come together in cooperative arrangements in the 21st century. But each will have to make significant adjustments to get there.

Footnotes:

^ "Wealth, Power and Instability," International Securityy Winter 1993/94, p. 64.

^ "Ripe for Rivalry," International Security, Winter 1993/94, p- 7.

^ "Money Moves East, as Welfare Goes West," The Straits Times (Singapore), July 9, 1994. P-35•* "Rethinking East Asian Security," The IISS Quarterly, Summer 1994, p. 15.

' The Economist, Aug. 6,1994.

' "The Myth ofthe Pacific Community," Foreign Affairs, November/December 1994, p. 80.

* On October 19,1994, the European Commission proposed an economic and security pact with countries ofthe Middle East and North Africa to stem the threat of political instability and mass migration. This ambitious strategy would face hurdles as lofty as its intentions.

[TruthBringer]

One thing that is very important for people to understand is that East Asian economic development is altering the balance of power between Asia and the West, specifically the United States.

The most immediate danger of this situation is obvious: the stronger and more independent China and the Orient becomes, the less we will be able to stop them from their negative activities. Plus, their increasing energy demands will have to be met one way or the other. This dilemma opens up the possibility of a truly horrifying scenario which should really be addressed.

China's increasing needs for oil are likely to impel it to expand it's relations with Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia as well as Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. Such an arms-for-oil axis won't have to take orders from London, Paris, or Washington anymore.

As China and it's Asian counterparts are moved to the forefront by the Controllers, we need to examine how these changes will affect America. The most profound explanation comes from a man named Samuel P. Huntington, who says in the starkest terms possible, "China's emergence as a major power will dwarf any comparable phenomena during the last half of the second millennium." Lee Kuan Yew, Singapore's first Prime Minister, also said that, "It's not possible to pretend that this is just another big player. This is the biggest player in the history of man!"

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: Well guess what Spot. None of my information is "Corrupt" as you like to call it. And if it is, then please explain how?Corrupt in the sense of Chinese Whispers, which in this context is rather a good joke.

A common (likely apocryphal) story in the UK is of a General who sent the message "Send reinforcements, we are going to advance" back to HQ. After passing through many intermediaries it finally arrived as "Send three and fourpence, we are going to a dance".

There is an original source. Someone quotes the reference to it correctly, and says what they think it means. A third party paraphrases the description. This process is the corruption of the original text.

Someone along the line puts quotations around the description to make it sound stronger. That implies the quote is from the original article, and that's corruption in the sense of deliberate lying.

The final stage is that you copy the end result into your post. You don't make any changes, but you don't check accuracy either. That's corruption in the sense of inadequate concern for truth.

The truth is that the original article carries none of the text quoted from it, and the meaning of the article is the reverse of the description you give of it. It may not be your own description, but by posting it you take responsibility for all of the corrupt phases it's passed through.

[TruthBringer]

Is the importance of this upcoming change starting to hit you guys yet? The Controllers want to run this World through China, and they're setting the stage with non-Western arms proliferation in North Korea, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, India, and China. Once the Red Army officially takes control of the Asian theater, things will only get worse. And others with hostile feelings towards the U.S. will side with them!

Samuel Huntington once said that, "In politics a common enemy creates a common interest, Islamic and Sinic (Chinese) societies which see the West as their antagonist thus have reason to cooperate with each other against the West."

Nearly half of the World's military manpower will belong to the Chinese and Muslims soon and all of you guys will eventually be forced to realize the magnitude of what we'll all be up against. It is truly horrifying. To make matters worse, take a look at the following two quotes by Samuel Huntington to determine how the Chinese feel about us:

"The most important group in China with an antagonistic view towards the U.S. is the military."

"By the mid-1990's Chinese officials and agencies routinely portrayed the U.S. as a hostile power."

[TruthBringer]

Please remember that these opinions are coming from a New York Times best-selling author and one of the New World Order's most lauded academics.

You can read more about what Samuel Huntington has to say on the China subject as well as the New World Order and the class of civilizations at http://www.pbs.org/newshour/gergen/janu ... _1-10.html.

That is a link to an interview that he gave for U.S. News & World Report. it is very interesting and I recommend that everyone who is worried about Red China's growth should read it in order to gain a better perspective.

[spot]

Right, everyone. I'll assume I'm on ignore, that TruthBringer honors his word and he won't get to see this. I'd hate to discuss any of the breakdown with him.

It's difficult to get a grasp on what he's posting about without a summary, so here's mine. I used a script that let me shift key phrases into spreadsheet cells with a single click that noted the post number as it went, made a single pass of the thread, categorised the key phrases by subject, and sorted. It was a quarter hour that I'd have enjoyed more in the bath bobbing my duck, but someone had to do it.

Here's what I can see, anyway, in the six categories I've identified.

We have a "current affairs" category. Israel faces probably the greatest threat to it's country in modern history; North Korea basicly likes to poke at us from time to time; World War 2; Japan won't be here for too much longer. No offense, but Japan is due to subside beneath the ocean very soon; William Safire on surveillance Technology in a NYT article "You Are a Suspect".

You'll find those on posts 52, 57, 59, 64, 97, 98 - 99.

I wonder whether I mis-categorized the Japan posting? Probably.

Next we have a "Red Chinese" category, discussing Mossad, John Cohen, Sean McDade, Red China, Controllers, Gordon Thomas, Kissinger Associates, the Bilderbergs, the CFR and the Trilateral Commission with respect to impending "Red Chinese" domination of the world economy by gift of the Controllers.

You'll find those on posts 241, 243, 245, 248, 253 - 258, 263 - 273.

If you mistrust Asians then this is your natural bedtime reading. To me it screams racist xenophobia.

Next we have a "History" category, discussing an AFP article and another from ET World - Reuters By Parisa Hafezi that Syria and Iran are to form a "united front" against threats, the Theatre of Terror, drugs, Skull & Bones, drugs, Controllers, CIA drug running, drugs, drugs and the CIA, Controllers, Afghanistan, Carlyle Group, Treaty of Versailles, Bankers, IG Farben, Standard Oil of New Jersey and The Rockefeller family,[/url] ockefeller, Trilateral Commission, more Rockefeller, industrialists who helped Germany build its War Machine, Henry Ford, Carroll Quigley, and the 1990s Bill #PDD60 not retaliate or launch on warning.

You'll find those on posts 1 - 4 90, 93, 97, 127, 147 - 151, 154, 155 - 156, 163 - 165, 166 - 177, 179 - 182, 186, 187, 190, 192 - 195, 199, 200, 201 - 202, 212 - 218, 222 - 233, 239.

When I get round to it, I'll suck this apart a bit - TruthBringer's got the historical aspects right, though he mistakes the origins of the secret societies and he has far more faith in their collective powers than is justified.

Next we have a "background information" category, discussing World War 3 as a disaster which could be avoided, the majority of World War 3 will be fought on the Middle Eastern Continent, a poll saying most Americans claim World War III "Likely", War = Profits, the history and nature Federal Reserve with a "Phone Call To The Fed" discussing that history.

You'll find those on posts 68 - 70, 86 - 88.

Who's surprised at Americans thinking World War Three is coming? They're taught it from birth.

Next we have an "X-files" category, discussing The New World Order, why the Conspiracy is relatively unknown, Controlled Chaos ... the Controllers and the International Controller Cabal.

You'll find those on posts 80 - 85, 96, 107 - 119.

This is where the History section went beyond reason and into The Aliens Are Landing territory. Gosh, those Controllers are a powerful bunch.

Finally we have a "Paranormal" category, discussing Psychics ("All of the psychic sources that I will be using are TRUE psychics"), , Edgar Cayce's Prediction, The Bible Code, Jeane Dixon, The Bible code has these predictions for 2006 and Japan, This year is 2006, and thats the year that the Bible Code lists for World War 3, Edgar Cayce, Jeane Dixon and even people like Nostradamus have prophecies which coincide with what the Bible Code says will happen, Nostradamus's Predictions For This Century (2000 - 2100) , John's Prophecies: (The Revelations Prophet), If 2006 turns out exactly as predicted, then, Jeane Dixon's WW3 Predictions, The Pole Shift, the Mayan Calendar, The Dead Sea Scrolls Predictions, The Bible Code, The Bible Code, The "Blueprint" For World War 3, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong if it turns out that I am. But I do not believe that after all the work and energy I and many others have put into this information that these events will not occur, nothing happens by accident, everything has been pre-planned before it happens, Earth will be producing disasters like never before seen, Psychic driving, Bible backing for psychics.

You'll find those on posts 5 - 7, 18, 24 - 56 58, 60 - 63 65 - 67 100, 133 - 139.

If there's anyone with a background in the paranormal and psychic predictions, perhaps they'd make sense in that context. I, unlike the Monkees, am not a Believer

There are two screamingly good jokes along the way -

1. Post 101 is about George Orwell.

2. (and I so hope that anastrophe sees this sometime, the irony is killing me) TruthBringer gets his quotation from John Swinton in post 116 irremediably screwed, and ascribes it to "1914 at the annual dinner of the American Press Association" at which point the man had been dead thirteen years. Sheer nostalgia demands that I print the correct text copy in full:

One night, probably in 1880, John Swinton, then the preeminent New York journalist, was the guest of honour at a banquet given him by the leaders of his craft. Someone who knew neither the press nor Swinton offered a toast to the independent press. Swinton outraged his colleagues by replying:



"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it.



"There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty_four hours my occupation would be gone.



"The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press?



"We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."



(Source: Labor's Untold Story, by Richard O. Boyer and Herbert M. Morais, published by United Electrical,[/url] adio & Machine Workers of America, NY, 1955/1979.)

[TruthBringer]

As this overview of China comes to a close.....we need to cover the World's current hot spots - Eurasia and the Middle East.

America's most recent interactions with the Islamic World occurred when the Russians invaded Afghanistan in 1979. This event had vital historical importance for not only did the United States give armaments and technological aid to the Afghan rebels, but the USSR's humiliating defeat was one of the factors ultimately leading to its demise. The ramifications of that war continue to reverberate to this day, for although Saudi Arabia was Afghanistan's primary backer, the fledgling Taliban and Al Quaeda were trained by the ISI (Packistan's secret service) and our own CIA. Pakistan also served as a conduit for U.S. money and weapons to the Muslims.

Thus, a seemingly beneficial link was established between the U.S. and Islamic World, but if we jump ahead to 1991's Gulf War and our invasion of Iraq, problems start to arise. Even though the Muslim World supported America's intervention (at least on the surface), they also saw the battle between Kuwait and Iraq as an inter-family squabble to be settled among themselves. At that time, a fitting analogy would be like Iran attacking our Southwest after Texas and Oklahoma got into a tussle.

Another factor that strained this situation was the Bush Administration, via U.S. Ambassador April Gillespie, giving Saddam Hussein the okay to invade their neighbor by telling him, "We have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait." Worse, it was later discovered that the story of 300 premature babies at Kuwait's Maternity Hospital that were supposedly removed from their incubators and slaughtered by Iraqi soldiers was completely untrue and nothing more than a propaganda stunt to to sway the public opinion.

[TruthBringer]

The truth is that much of the Arab World saw our Iraqi invasion as nothing more than a means to protect our self-interests (oil), plus a way to keep them under our thumb. Worse, as the U.S. soundly whooped the Iraqis, the Muslim World felt a sense of humiliation in that their civilization was once again defeated by the West. And last but not least, many Arabs still feel that the United States blatant favoritism of Israel over every other Muslim country is patently unfair.

Two years later, in February 1993, our World Trade Center was bombed for the first time, and then on September 11, 2001 tragedy struck with the infamous terrorist attacks. The World changed that day, and the machinations for the Controllers to move forward with their New World Order Agenda were ignited.

Thus, we should take a look at how this debacle is playing out. First of all, the power elite realize that problems face both of their Cold War super-powers - the U.S. and USSR - none the least being that they are "mature" societies with low birth rates, aging populations, sluggish economies, and no continuing vigor to expand their territories (despite how the media portrays American imperialism). Compared to other hungry countries like those in Asia, India, or the Islamic World, the U.S. and Russia are seen by the Controllers as being satisfied with the status quo.

[TruthBringer]

So, wanting to lay a New World Order foundation in these other countries before they got too strong while minimizing the risk of monumental personal losses, the Controllers came up with a grand scheme. First of all they baited the American people into finding a new enemy by allowing three airliners to crash into our Pentagon and World Trade Centers. We naturally wanted revenge, so a Wag the Dog scenario unfolded complete with widespread flag-waving and conditioned patriotism. Soon we were bombing an invisible enemy (Osama bin laden) in Afghanistan to take back the poppy fields for the CIA (heroin), and the natural resources for the Controllers' oil companies.

Not content with a mere takeover of Eurasia, the war-hawks next pushed America into invading Iraq (and they plan to go beyond). Now, if you remember the Controller's motivation behind World War 1 - to rid Europe of its old World Governing system of kings, princes, and royal families - well, the same rationale applies to the Middle East where they want to replace the sheiks and oil families with those more receptive to their Globalist game plan.

But World sentiment is against the war, as it is even within our own borders. So, the Controllers can either rally support via another outrageous catastrophe reminiscent of 9-11, or they can "allow" the U.S. to invade the Middle East and do their dirty work for them. But things are already on shaky ground in America. Our national debt is skyrocketing once again, layoffs continue in the manufacturing field, the economy is stalled or in reverse, our stock market has at times been anemic despite rock-bottom interest rates, and oil prices are through the roof. In addition, a war with Iraq and our subsequent "restructuring" will cost upwards of $100 billion.

But the Controller's don't care guys, for once America's usefulness has been outlived and we've rid the Middle East of their royal families and old-style rulers, the door will finally be opened for China - the next "king of the hill" - to waltz through. And what will we do about it? Who knows. But consider that we'll be broke, unable to get loans from the international bankers, and our military will be exhausted. At this point everything will become clear as we finally see how we had been set-up for a double-sucker punch from Red China and her allies.

[TruthBringer]

The final outrage will occur when people look back upon these major events, for remember, the victor always writes the history books. And if China is the victor and if we allow our Country to get lured into World War 3, Then that new king will be Red China, and they'll put forth the same line that was used on Germany after World War 2 - that the Nazis were aggressors who wanted to expand their territory and were hated WorldWide. But nowadays, think about who is being called the aggressor nation, the imperialist, and who is invoking global hostility. We are! The United States of America. And our President is even being characterized by some as another Adolf Hitler! Can't you see whats going on? We are being set-up to take a fall, only to be written off as another militaristic Nazi Germany-like aggressor!

The only question remaining is: will we do anything about our predicament before it's too late? Do we have the intestinal fortitude to fight back against this impending atrocity, or will we roll over and play dead? If we choose to do the latter, then please remember these haunting words written by historian Carroll Quigley in The Evolution of Civilizations:

"A civilization, no longer able to defend itself because it is no longer willing to defend itself, lies wide open to "barbarian invaders" who often come from another younger, more powerful civilization."

America, it is now time to lay aside our complacency and apathy and summon the courage that made this nation great. If we fail to do so, we're finished. It's just that plain and simple.

[TruthBringer]

Early in the 19th century, Napoleon Bonaparte warned the West to "let China sleep" : "There lies a sleeping giant", began his famous phrase, "let her sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world".

[spot]

Again, TruthBringer, you're carelessly or deliberately paraphrasing people but still putting quote marks around the paraphrase. Ambassador April Gillespie actually said "We take no position in territorial disputes between Arabs, like your border disagreement with Kuwait; our only interest is that they be resolved peacefully." There's a totally different nuance to that than the claimed text you give.

You'd be interested to read the Heritage Foundation Report of February 6, 2004 under The Heritage Lectures No. 821, delivered by The Honorable Robert E. Andrews and The Honorable Steve Chabot and entitled Two Congressmen Look at "One China". Here's a fairly central section from it:

Does "One China" Make War Less Likely?

But does our one-China policy make war less likely? I can't see that it does. In 1938, Britain and France had a virtual "one-Germany" policy which recognized Hitler's claims to the Sudetenland, and Franco-British appeasement on the issue led to Hitler's occupation of Czechoslovakia and ultimately to World War II in Europe.

More recently, in 1990, the U.S. seemed to follow a "one-Arab" policy. On July 25, the American ambassador in Baghdad told Saddam Hussein, "We take no position in territorial disputes between Arabs, like your border disagreement with Kuwait; our only interest is that they be resolved peacefully." As you all know, the "border disagreement with Kuwait" was that Saddam Hussein claimed Kuwait as Iraq's 19th province. The American ambassador's assurance that the United States didn't take any position on the issue only encouraged Saddam to believe that America wouldn't intervene in Iraq's armed invasion of Kuwait.

Why do we have a one-China policy that gives Beijing's leaders the same impression that Saddam had in 1990? The simple answer is that, during the Cold War, the United States saw China as an invaluable ally against the expansion of the Soviet Union, and for two decades, China was a useful partner. China, for its part, set aside its complaints about Taiwan in order to stabilize ties with Washington.

But the Soviet Union is long gone, and with it, the grand organizing principle of the strategic partnership between the U.S. and China has also disappeared. Now the rising hegemonic power in Asia is China. Let's face it: China is a militarily powerful dictatorship. It has an expanding economy, which, by the way, relies on free access to America's markets in order to grow.

So there is no reason, either strategically or economically or morally, why the United States should be timid in the face of China's threats to go to war over Taiwan. China relies on the United States, not the other way around, and as the world's preeminent power, we must not tolerate China's threats.

Would the United States tolerate China's threats of war if Korea did not unify with China? Taiwan is an even bigger market for U.S. exports than South Korea, yet we would never put up with a Chinese demand for suzerainty over Korea. And what about Japan or Southeast Asia? In the 1960s, Chinese revolutionary movements flourished in the region, but we always sided with the independent democracies of Asia against the Chinese dictatorship -- except in the case of Taiwan.

[TruthBringer]

But honestly though folks, I am not going to post this to you by saying "My fellow Americans", or any of that other phony nonsense. Nor will I post this to you in a calm soothing voice as if you were eighth graders like Hillary Clinton or Al Gore would do. They don't have any respect for you. In fact, they view the "everyday man and woman" with disdain. But myself and many others still believe in you! And we don't have time to mess around with such trivialities.

Instead, I need to lay this out in the most truthful and starkest terms without any of the silly games that people like politicians like to play. So here it goes.

If we allow the Controlling faction of international bankers, multinational corporate heads and secret society members to continue their rule of America, the luxuries, rights, privileges, and benefits that we currently enjoy will soon be gone. Take a look at what's happening in the World today. We're on the brink of World War 3. We're already at war with Iraq, but then there is the Jews and Palestinians tearing each other's throats out. And let's not forget about Iran. When America intervenes in these blood baths, North Korea will invade South Korea; then there is a chance that India will even invade Pakistan. Do you remember the Allied/Axis division in World War 2? George Bush has already thrown down the gauntlet, setting us against the "Axis of Evil". Does the terminology sound eerily familiar? It should, because the same forces that manipulated and financed every war of the 20th century are the same ones who are setting the stage for World War 3.

[TruthBringer]

Please, Listen! We need to either save this nation right NOW, or surrender it! The people of the United States don't control their Government. Worse, neither do our elected officials.

So you may be asking: Then who does? The Answer: an evil oligarchy lurking in the shadows. These deceitful devils, representing a "New World Order", have their sights set on bringing the American reign to an end, then leading the monstrous nation of China to the forefront as the World's next exploited superpower.

Folks, this is what's happening. Don't listen to the lies on TV, or to the propagandists that are weaving masterful illusion. America is going to be brought to it's knees if we don't do something soon.

Think it can't happen? Neither did the Romans, the French, Genghis Khan or the British Empire. But guess what? As arrogant and mighty as they all were, each was defeated and replaced by another. The British, one of the greatest dynasties of all time, NEVER thought they'd be knocked from the top of the mountain. But they were -- by us!

Now we think the same way. Many Americans say whole heartedly, "America is the greatest -- economically, militarily, socially and morally." And do you know what? It's understandable why you feel that way. But what you need to understand is that there is a sick, nefarious cabal of evil men that are plotting America's demise as we speak! How so? Realistically, America is not equipped at this moment to fight a war on more than one front (thanks to those who manipulated Bill Clinton). But with Afghanistan, Iraq/Iran, and the Israeli/Palestinian debacle, we'll be spread too thin. Then if India, Pakistan and the Koreas flare up, all hell is going to break loose and we won't be strong enough to contain the situation. And thats where Red China enters the picture.

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: But what you need to understand is that there is a sick, nefarious cabal of evil men that are plotting America's demise as we speak! How so? Realistically, America is not equipped at this moment to fight a war on more than one front (thanks to those who manipulated Bill Clinton). But with Afghanistan, Iraq/Iran, and the Israeli/Palestinian debacle, we'll be spread too thin. Then if India, Pakistan and the Koreas flare up, all hell is going to break loose and we won't be strong enough to contain the situation. And thats where Red China enters the picture.You fail consistently to address the question of why this is a bad thing. Do you want to retain world domination for the fun of it? Because you think you're good at it? Have you not heard the clamor from one end of the planet to the other that you've made a pig's ear of the job and it's time to step aside?

[TruthBringer]

Did you know that all-together, Red China's Army has as many soldiers in their military as we have people in our ENTIRE country? Think about how scary that is. Once we spread ourselves too thin in war after war, the Red Chinese are going to come in an wipe us away on the battlefield. Once that happens, the stock markets will collapse, financial havoc will ensue, and America will be thrust into a nightmare like none they've ever seen before.

Take a look at the big picture. We are on the verge of disaster in this country, and no one is doing anything to stop it. The people who are aware of it -- and they should be highly commended -- can only go so far. But let's be truthful. If all we do is read more books, magazines, articles and watch more videotapes, then nothing is going to stop this juggernaut of destruction. Have they so far? No! And here's the reason why:

The Controllers, those people running much of the World, are evil. Pure and simple. If you don't believe me, just take a look at whats happening. One-hundred thousand people die every day from starvation on this planet. One-hundred thousand! And guess what? We currently have the money, resources, and technology to feed every one of them. But we don't. We let them go so long without food that they DIE!

These people running nations and Governments are supposed to be adults! But they sure don't behave like it. These people have wealth beyond comprehension, but they don't act to make our World a better place. We're still killing eachother like crazy, with the United States now ready to invade other countries.

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: We're still killing eachother like crazy, with the United States now ready to invade other countries.Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.

[TruthBringer]

So I guess the real question guys is this. Haven't we learned anything yet? Can't these ADULTS who are supposed to be running nations do any better than to let people starve, or supply them with weapons so that they can keep on killing each other?

Yes, think about it. Where are these wars being waged? Along the castle-lined rivers of affluence in Europe, or the fancy mansion rows of Long Island or Washington DC? Of course not. Poor people are waging the wars. Most of them don't have enough money to feed their families or build houses that we could even consider living in by American standards. Yet, mysteriously, they have guns and rocket launchers to kill each other with.

Where are these weapons and resources coming from? Do they suddenly appear out of thin air? Hardly. They come from the "foreign aid" that the Controllers give them.

How many years have we been giving them this supposed "foreign aid" to end starvation? At least four or five decades, and yet 100,000 people die every day from hunger. How many billions of dollars have we spent around the World to create peace? But recently at times we have had over 30 wars going on, with World War 3 possibly right around the corner.

[TruthBringer]

Doesn't the entire situation seem preposterous? Something's not right, and it isn't right because certain factions are guaranteeing that it's NOT made right. These factions are what we call the Controllers -- the New World Order - the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderbergs and the Club of Rome (among others).

These people want to create a one-World political, economic, and religious framework that will once and for all put and end to the sovereign existence we currently enjoy in America.

The ONLY way to stop these destructive forces is to EXPOSE them, and then takeover the system they currently monopolize. Their ultimate plan is to assume absolute control by turning chaos into order.

This cabal controls all the banks, and they control most Governmental entities. Using these two vehicles, with a compliant media to pave the way, the shadow powers will launch the next Great War. The terrorist attacks on 9-11 were a symbolic beginning, and if you think that catastrophe was horrific, World War 3 will truly sicken you. This is going to be the real thing if we don't stop it - obliteration on a grand scale that mankind has never seen before.

[TruthBringer]

But to the Controllers, war is a necessary step in their overall plan. Because once we get so sick of the bloodshed and violence...when we can't tolerate even one more second of fighting....these people are hoping that we'll finally lie down and accept their New World Order. Can't you see? It's CONTROLLED CONFLICT, and they're the ones in charge. They'll kill millions of innocent people -- they already have -- in order to promote their agenda and to seize more control. Fear and chaos will be the main ingredients in their equation. Out of Chaos...order....a New World Order.

[LOCO_01]

i think ww3 is gonna happen soon. Iran is making really good progress with thier nuclear program. The U.S isnt just going to sit back and let a nation who wants to erase isreal off the map have nuclear capablilities.Thats just too dangerous.The UN wanted to put sanctions on Iran but Russia and china who are Irans best oil customers said they wouldnt agree with it.So i think ww3 is gonna happen soon.

[spot]

LOCO_01 wrote: Iran is making really good progress with thier nuclear program.That's an interesting observation, Loco, and an interesting use of the word "program". Would you like to make an estimate of how many months it will be before they produce their first nuclear weapon? And maybe a rough idea of how many nuclear weapons a month they'll be able to produce thereafter?

[TruthBringer]

Some will say that there is no such thing as the "Illuminati" or "Controllers". To them, history is nothing more than a series of random events. But don't believe them. Franklin Roosevelt said it best: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."

Folks, I implore you to listen. The greatness of this country is about to be taken from us. We're not as invincible as we once thought. Our fallen World Trade Center proves that. We are very vulnerable and very replaceable. Why? Because, quite simply, China now holds more economic potential than we do. Think about it. China is a virtually undeveloped market with over a billion residents, many of them without simple modern luxuries that we ignore like telephones and televisions. To the Controllers who have seized World control primarily via financial means, China is the ultimate frontier....the final payoff.

Look at the British Empire of old. They had the greatest military on Earth, the greatest banks, and the most advanced political system ever known. They were literally "king of the hill". But did their dynasty endure forever? No. We became the next superpower because, in simplest terms, we held more potential.

America was bigger; it could hold more people, and it could be exploited economically a thousand times more than England. So we REPLACED them.

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: Folks, I implore you to listen. The greatness of this country is about to be taken from us. We're not as invincible as we once thought. Our fallen World Trade Center proves that. We are very vulnerable and very replaceable.You've been asked several times, TruthBringer, why you think this would be a bad thing for the world in general. I've said that from every aspect I can see, the results for the planet would be positive and beneficial. Is there any way at all in which we can deflect your attention sufficiently to get an answer to this fairly fundamental question?

[TruthBringer]

Now look at China. Unlimited land, a billion people, and 99% don't have a tenth of the appliances, gadgets, vehicles, and "toys" that we enjoy. They are very EXPLOITABLE. Also, the labor is extremely cheap; and even better, the Chinese have never known freedom -- ever! That means they won't be trouble makers like us pesky Americans with our Constitution, free speech, guns, and Bill of Rights.

They're already a slave culture, and if things don't change over there then they always will be. Americans will soon be implanted with microchips to guarantee their docility. But right now most of the Chinese people don't even need them. They're already living like slaves!

With all of this information in mind, what are the leaders of our country doing? Everything in their power to stop Red China's economic locomotive? Hell no! The Controllers behind-the-scenes are using America -- our great nation -- to facilitate China's ultimate rise.

We are the ones who are operating under trade agreements that benefit Red China while harming our domestic producers and manufacturers. Our trade imbalance with them is so insulting it's a crime. In addition, we have given them "most favored nation" status. We are also giving them their computer hardware, technology and know-how to build their technological infrastructure.

[TruthBringer]

Look whats happening right now with our country. We make sure that our President visits Red China regularly to pave the way for even further advances. It was our ex-President (Bill Clinton) who gave them nuclear technology so that they could further develop their atomic weapons.

We are cows being led to slaughter, and we don't even know it! How are you going to like it when the next World leaders speak to you in Chinese?

This is the bottom line: America is being deliberately destroyed by a hidden cabal of Controllers who are intent on furthering their own agendas at our expense. Don't you get it? They're using us as a means to an end.

What does it take to get you mad or enraged? We need to topple this regime! And that's what it is -- a political and economic monopoly that's sick in it's depravity -- a thousand times worse than all the legions of organized crime.

Look at what they've done! They've allowed for the toppling of the World Trade Center right before our eyes. They've assassinated presidents in broad daylight, created the AIDS virus, assumed total control of our media, stolen our vote via Votescam, and lied to us every step of the way.

Wake up! They're killing us without conscience, undermining our way of life, and setting us up for a brutal downfall. Worse, they're doing it while we wave flags and rally around their War Machine. Try to imagine life in these respects. Instead of calling our own shots, we'll be listening to and looking up at the Chinese Communists as they parade around on center stage!

We won't have as many freedoms, we won't have as much money (a lower standard-of-living), and we won't have nearly as much dignity. We will be reduced to followers instead of leaders, no longer masters of our own destiny.

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: Americans will soon be implanted with microchips to guarantee their docility.Might I ask what the intended method is, whereby docility is guaranteed? Again you come out with sentences which, if true, would be electrifying, but the lack of referencing or accurate citation makes it impossible to verify. Something made you aware of this fact, why can't you acknowledge the source of your information?

The reason that I ask is that I genuinely know of no method of implanting with microchips to guarantee the docility of people, and I am eager to explore the subject.

[spot]

TruthBringer wrote: Look at what they've done! They've ... created the AIDS virusTruthBringer, might I ask whether you accept that the oldest instance of the virus was isolated from a plasma sample taken in 1959 [1] - I'm interested in the notion that the scientific skills available in the 1950s might have been adequate to engineer a virus with such a lethal payload. If you agree that the virus existed as long ago as 1959 I'll follow that path and see where it takes me.



[1]Zhu, T., Korber, B. T., Nahmias, A. J., Hooper, E., Sharp, P. M. and Ho, D. D. (1998). "An African HIV-1 Sequence from 1959 and Implications for the Origin of the Epidemic". Nature 391 (6667): 594-597, cited in Wikipedia "AIDS".

[spot]

sixyearsleft wrote: Its better to learn this information, than ignore it, thats the only thing that makes sense wether you believe it or not you should prepare yourself mentaly, what have you got to loose:-6 you will only be weaker if you dont and the time comes..I don't mind in the least who educates me. If you know a method of implanting with microchips to guarantee the docility of people, then please add that detail to the thread. As you rightly say, its better to learn this information than ignore it. If you know, pass it on.

[spot]

sixyearsleft wrote: Mind controll spot, they will make ppl think they need a Microchip, it's really easy to manipulate the masses, you make it feel like its going to protect you from evil or terror.Quite simply, I don't believe you. Not about the mind control, nor the really easy to manipulate the masses, nor the feel like its going to protect you from evil or terror, nor the implication that any such chip exists or is in development, nor the idea that one might even theoretically work regardless of how much time money and effort were poured into building one. That needs qualifying... not for at the very least the next thirty years, how's that? I don't know many people who can predict technology beyond a quarter of a century.

[spot]

"the arrival of biometrics as a new wave of identifying ... all people."? What on earth has biometric identification to do with "implanting with microchips to guarantee the docility of people"? Where's does docilising come into biometric identification? Good God, Six, your previous message on the subject started with the words "Mind control", and now all it means is biometric identification? MIND CONTROL??

[spot]

Go on, keep going... what on earth does that have to do with Microchip implants? Why on earth do you even believe that a sixties CIA project came up with results sufficiently advanced as to be applied in 21st century technology, when as the article you quote says:

There is no evidence that the CIA (or anyone else) has actually succeeded in controlling a person's actions through the "mind control" techniques that are known to have been attempted in the MKULTRA projects. The file destruction makes a full investigation of claims impossible.

And on top of this you think that the entire population is going to eagerly queue up to have this impossible device implanted in their own heads because the Government can "make ppl think they need a Microchip, it's really easy to manipulate the masses, you make it feel like its going to protect you from evil or terror." Are you actually functional on a day-to-day basis, despite this delusional view of the way the universe operates?

[spot]

sixyearsleft wrote: "impossible device implanted in their own heads"

Its not impossible, http://www.livescience.com/technology/0 ... t_law.html


The sentence is quite simple - the impossible is the device, not the implanting. How can you read it differently? It doesn't read "device impossibly implanted in their own heads", does it.

[TruthBringer]

spot wrote: Go on, keep going... what on earth does that have to do with Microchip implants? Why on earth do you even believe that a sixties CIA project came up with results sufficiently advanced as to be applied in 21st century technology, when as the article you quote says:

There is no evidence that the CIA (or anyone else) has actually succeeded in controlling a person's actions through the "mind control" techniques that are known to have been attempted in the MKULTRA projects. The file destruction makes a full investigation of claims impossible.

And on top of this you think that the entire population is going to eagerly queue up to have this impossible device implanted in their own heads because the Government can "make ppl think they need a Microchip, it's really easy to manipulate the masses, you make it feel like its going to protect you from evil or terror." Are you actually functional on a day-to-day basis, despite this delusional view of the way the universe operates?


Look first of all, the first Chip to be implanted into Human beings is supposed to be in the palm of their hands. This will be for tracking us and keeping tabs on us. Whatever is done after that is still just a matter of speculation on all of our parts.

However, with that said, I do believe that Six Years was right on the money by posting that link about MK-Ultra. The project proves that the Government was attempting to control the minds of Human beings. Which is a sick fact within itself. And if you can't realize the Evil that lies behind such studies Spot than I don't know what to tell you.

And as a side note, if you think they failed or lacked in the technology back then to control the Human Brain through one form or another, just imagine what kinds of progress they have made a half a century later. The Controllers just don't give up Spot. They will wait hundreds of years if necessary to implement their Agenda. And yes they are entirely capable of doing that through their Secret Organizations, ect. Time means nothing to these people. It's the end result that counts.