WW3 - New World Order - Pole Shift - Age of Peace (2006-2012)

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:05 pm

Look some of that stuff was correct while at the same time being incorrect. Some things can not be taken at face value.

A: How is that possible?

B: Sort of...wait...check that...EXACTLY like this string of paranoid, delusional, disjointed babbling.

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:18 pm

TruthBringer wrote: Well we're damn right they're going to lay siege upon us, and if something isn't done to stop it, who is ultimately to blame? We are, for letting it all happen.I'm trying to think of a scenario in which TruthBringer succeeds in making a difference to the outcome. What do we have, so far?

A two-party electoral system that can't under any circumstances vote in an Administration that isn't either Democrat or Republican"mere puppets" in charge of both those parties"Controllers" who (presumably) can't be identified by name, and can't be brought before any tribunalWhich leads me to ask, given that we now recognise the truth of these statements as a consequence of reading TruthBringer's postings, in what way are we letting all this happen? What can be done at any level of society to stop it? Why are we ultimately to blame? What measures are open to any of us that will avert our prophesied doom?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:19 pm

you forgot 'who gives a rat's arse?'

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:20 pm

spot wrote:

Which leads me to ask, given that we now recognise the truth of these statements as a consequence of reading TruthBringer's postings, in what way are we letting all this happen? What can be done at any level of society to stop it? Why are we ultimately to blame? What measures are open to any of us that will avert our prophesied doom?
Spot, I hope you don't expect actual answers to your very valid questions. You will turn blue in the face and pass out before that happens.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:43 pm

spot wrote: I'm trying to think of a scenario in which TruthBringer succeeds in making a difference to the outcome. What do we have, so far?

A two-party electoral system that can't under any circumstances vote in an Administration that isn't either Democrat or Republican"mere puppets" in charge of both those parties"Controllers" who (presumably) can't be identified by name, and can't be brought before any tribunalWhich leads me to ask, given that we now recognise the truth of these statements as a consequence of reading TruthBringer's postings, in what way are we letting all this happen? What can be done at any level of society to stop it? Why are we ultimately to blame? What measures are open to any of us that will avert our prophesied doom?

We will over throw these Controllers, and I'll tell you why. Because a handful of corporations and their controllers cannot control over 290 million Americans who do not wish to cooperate with that control. And thats what we are going to achieve. Total Independence from these Controllers and their Machine. And the minute that we all decide to stop playing their game, thats when their control will cease to be.

You see, it takes a secondary source of energy in order to run a machine. And in the Controller's case, they use Human Beings as the fuel for running their Agenda. But the second that we all decide to stop going to work, and to stop allowing them to strip away our rights, and to stop playing the game by their rules, then we win, and they will lose. And thats how we will gain back our independence.

People have asked me for the solution, and I'm telling you this is it. Even if the Controllers re-instated the draft, in order to force us to fight in their World War 3, then there would be no way for that to happen if everyone fought the draft all at once.

And so what if they put us in jail. Could they put 290 million people in jail? Of course not. Their game would be over. And some of you might be thinking that all of the American people do not have the courage to stand up together all at once. Well let me tell you this, you must never ever lose faith in your fellow Brothers and Sisters, because as soon as you do that you have already lost the battle.

Rather, you should all be seeking to empower the people around you, so that they can all join you on your quest to defeat these Evil Controllers. Problem, Reaction, Solution, we will use their own system against them.

Many people know in their hearts that the way we will defeat these Controllers is not through violence and destruction. No, these are the forces that the Controllers operate from. We can not fight Evil with Evil. It will not work.

How many Human Beings are willing to choose death over killing their Brother or their Sister? Perhaps many. But how many Human Beings are willing to choose death over not going to work? It's the things that the Controller's see as our greatest weaknesses that will end up being our greatest strengths. And in the end it will be the controllers greatest strengths that will end up causing them all to fall from their power.

To quote author Robert Anton Wilson:

"Every conspiracy collapses eventually because of the psychological likelihood that those who are superlatively clever at deceiving others become equally clever at deceiving themselves. Disinformation eats those who create it."

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:51 pm

TruthBringer wrote: How many Human Beings are willing to choose death over killing their Brother or their Sister? Perhaps many. But how many Human Beings are willing to choose death over not going to work? It's the things that the Controller's see as our greatest weaknesses that will end up being our greatest strengths. And it's the controllers greatest strengths that will end up causing them all to fall from their power.Me. I'm stood here, my hand's in the air, I'm primed. All you have said I have understood, nothing now stands in my way.

All you need do is to identify at least some of the Controllers to me - you've described them in great detail, but to act I need names.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:59 pm

spot wrote: Me. I'm stood here, my hand's in the air, I'm primed. All you have said I have understood, nothing now stands in my way.

All you need do is to identify at least some of the Controllers to me - you've described them in great detail, but to act I need names.

If I was you. I would start looking at the people who head up some of the major corporations of our World. Also, I would look into family bloodlines relating to Royal Power, and some of the many corrupt Government Hierarchy Officials. I would look into the Rockefellers, and the Rothschilds, and into the Federal Reserve Scam in this country. Then I would start watching every day what the Controllers are pumping out in the news. Not that you should believe much of what they say, but it will allow you to sit back and objectively watch what they are cramming down our throats in order to get us ready for what they have in store for us.

With that said, there are many of these people who work behind the scenes. In the shadows so to speak. These people do not show their faces for a reason, but that does not mean they aren't the ones who are giving the orders. The puppets are usually the ones that show themselves to the public, but the real people at the top remain hidden from our sight.

Now, even though that may be, the results will still be the same. If we overthrow the Controller's System, then the Controllers will go down with it. Including the ones at the top who operate from the shadows. On this planet, there is no force stronger than the force of God within us. And working together as it should be, there will be nothing we can't accomplish.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:06 pm

TruthBringer wrote: If I was you. I would start looking at the people who head up some of the major corporations of our World. Also, I would look into family bloodlines relating to Royal Power, and some of the many corrupt Government Hierarchy Officials. I would look into the Rockefellers, and the Rothschilds, and into the Federal Reserve Scam in this country. Then I would start watching every day what the Controllers are pumping out in the news.But you have already accomplished this task. You have been there, you have analysed them, you have already come to conclusions. Why is it unreasonable that we should ask you for the specifics that your analysis has achieved?

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:14 pm

spot wrote: But you have already accomplished this task. You have been there, you have analysed them, you have already come to conclusions. Why is it unreasonable that we should ask you for the specifics that your analysis has achieved?

My friend, I just gave to the keys to help you on your path. If you don't start doing these things by yourself, and for yourself, no one else is going to do that for you. And that goes for every single person on this board. You guys have the information, but now it's time for you to start taking your own initiative. Information will only take you so far. And the rest of it is going to depend upon your actions.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:17 pm

TruthBringer wrote: My friend, I just gave to the keys to help you on your path. If you don't start doing these things by yourself, and for yourself, no one else is going to do that for you. And that goes for every single person on this board. You guys have the information, but now it's time for you to start taking your own initiative. Information will only take you so far. And the rest of it is going to depend upon your actions.Since there are (presumably) many Controllers, it would leave us just as much work to accomplish if you were to name a few to get us on our way. We would then be in a position to compare our conclusions without fear of deviation, and to press ahead with renewed confidence.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:24 pm

You don't get it my friend. Taking out a few people from their positions is not going to eliminate the problem. Taking down the WHOLE SYSTEM is going to eliminate the problem. And if you haven't been able to identify the system yet than my work has been in vain.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:30 pm

You see, it takes a secondary source of energy in order to run a machine. And in the Controller's case, they use Human Beings as the fuel for running their Agenda. But the second that we all decide to stop going to work, and to stop allowing them to strip away our rights, and to stop playing the game by their rules, then we win, and they will lose. And thats how we will gain back our independence.

People have asked me for the solution, and I'm telling you this is it. Even if the Controllers re-instated the draft, in order to force us to fight in their World War 3, then there would be no way for that to happen if everyone fought the draft all at once.

None of this is even remotely realistic. I have been called idealistic over and over again so Im a dreamer too but theres nothing valid here.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:33 pm

TruthBringer wrote: You don't get it my friend. Taking out a few people from their positions is not going to eliminate the problem. Taking down the WHOLE SYSTEM is going to eliminate the problem. And if you haven't been able to identify the system yet than my work has been in vain.Taking out? As in assassination? You misunderstand me entirely, I want to write to congratulate them individually. World Government has been an ideal of mine for decades and I have very little interest in how it's achieved. If they've made so many strides toward it, I think it's time they gained recognition for the fact.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:25 pm

spot wrote: Taking out? As in assassination? You misunderstand me entirely, I want to write to congratulate them individually. World Government has been an ideal of mine for decades and I have very little interest in how it's achieved. If they've made so many strides toward it, I think it's time they gained recognition for the fact.

No Spot, I wasn't speaking of assasinations. Thats how the Controllers operate. Remember?

I am talking in terms of what we need to do as an entire people. We need to all pull together to remove the system frome existence.

Look, it doesn't really matter if you totally understand what I'm saying. There may be no way for me to change your mind. And I understand that too. However, there is one thing that all people need to realize. Very soon, these same "Controllers" are planning to start a World War 3. It will be the biggest and bloodiest conflict this World has ever seen. And it doesn't NEED to happen! Thats right. You read that right. It doesn't need to happen at all. There is an alternative to war. And there always has been.

So please, if you guys understand one thing, please understand this. There is no reason at all for us to go along with their war. And when they announce that there is no other option but for us to invade Iran, please understand that there IS another option. And later down the line, in a couple of years or so, when they announce that it is time for us to invade Korea (after North Korea invades South Korea), please understand that it would be the dumbest decision our country ever made.

We would be slitting our own throats. Invading North Korea would be their final step to lure us all into their plans for World War 3 because it would take us face to face with a war against Red China. And this is what they want! I don't care if a fricken nuke goes off in the USA, we cannot allow them to bring our country into World War 3. Thats been their plan for us all along. And we can't allow for that to happen. So we will have to do whatever it takes so that it doesn't. Because I promise you folks, if we allow these people to bring us into another war, a World War beyond the scope of your imagination, then this Country and our entire Planet will turn into a living Hell. And I do mean that in the worst sense possible.

So, whatever it takes, whatever we have to do as a nation and as a race, we have to do it soon. And we have to take a stand. Don't let them fool you with threats, and don't turn to them for help after something major happens in this country. A man-made disaster that will shake the World. They will try to do anything and everything in their power to lure us into another Great War. And we cannot allow for that to happen. If it does, this country will fall apart, and we will all become slaves for their New World Order. Mark my words people I promise you as someone who cares about the lives of every single one of you, if we allow for this all to go down as they have it planned for us, then they will have won and we will all be reduced to nothing but slaves for their Agenda.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:37 pm

TruthBringer wrote: No Spot, I wasn't speaking of assasinations. Thats how the Controllers operate. Remember?

I am talking in terms of what we need to do as an entire people. We need to all pull together to remove the system frome existence.

Look, it doesn't really matter if you totally understand what I'm saying. There may be no way for me to change your mind. And I understand that too. However, there is one thing that all people need to realize. Very soon, these same "Controllers" are planning to start a World War 3. It will be the biggest and bloodiest conflict this World has ever seen. And it doesn't NEED to happen! Thats right. You read that right. It doesn't need to happen at all. There is an alternative to war. And there always has been.Hey, this is fun, TruthBringer. This is what we in the trade call dialog. We call it that to distinguish it from posting hundreds of messages without waiting for things like "hey, TruthBringer, that's interesting, tell us a bit more".

The chief need, to eliminate the fear we Westerners induce in the - what shall we call it - terrified browbeaten parts of the world like South America (where we persistently egg on right-wing military intervention), is twofold. We need collectively to disarm, and we need collectively to fire all those bastard scheming win-at-any-cost planners in the CIA who thrive on hands-off cold war. I even posted a poem about what's happening right now over the Middle East, at http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... tcount=150

In order to do that and still maintain some sort of economy, we need a replacement for the $5000 toilet seat that the military keeps commissioning. How can you gainfully employ a tenth of your workforce that previously kept Uncle Sam supplied with his toys? If you replace Armageddon with recession nobody's going to go along your path to paradise.

So, three problems there to address, of which you're only tackling two. You're disarming, which is fine. You're kicking the bastards in the balls, which is even more satisfying. How are we going to reconfigure the economy?

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:43 pm

spot wrote: Hey, this is fun, TruthBringer. This is what we in the trade call dialog. We call it that to distinguish it from posting hundreds of messages without waiting for things like "hey, TruthBringer, that's interesting, tell us a bit more".

The chief need, to eliminate the fear we Westerners induce in the - what shall we call it - terrified browbeaten parts of the world like South America (where we persistently egg on right-wing military intervention), is twofold. We need collectively to disarm, and we need collectively to fire all those bastard scheming win-at-any-cost planners in the CIA who thrive on hands-off cold war. I even posted a poem about what's happening right now over the Middle East, at http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... tcount=150

In order to do that and still maintain some sort of economy, we need a replacement for the $5000 toilet seat that the military keeps commissioning. How can you gainfully employ a tenth of your workforce that previously kept Uncle Sam supplied with his toys? If you replace Armageddon with recession nobody's going to go along your path to paradise.

So, three problems there to address, of which you're only tackling two. You're disarming, which is fine. You're kicking the bastards in the balls, which is even more satisfying. How are we going to reconfigure the economy?

Well, I guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it? Thats probably the least important of the 3. Humans have survived for millions of years without an "economy". I think we can do it again for awhile until we figure things out.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:51 pm

TruthBringer wrote: Well, I guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it? Thats probably the least important of the 3. Humans have survived for millions of years without an "economy". I think we can do it again for awhile until we figure things out.Not at all - this is what we export, remember? Democratic freedom? You want pressure, you need people behind you. You want people, people want to eat. People have to work to eat, unless they're like me and tighten their belts because there's more important things in life and besides I prefer to use my time myself. But that's where fixing a future for the economy becomes a sine qua non. You have to show it can be done. Of course, if your Controllers lean back, they can break it for as long as they need to re-raise the fear threshold again, it's their economy after all.

Maybe if we infiltrate the teaching profession, assuming there's any future in teaching - the current focus on learning rather than understanding suggests that They've thought of that loophole already. And of course you can't write for the papers any more.

I can see why anarchists might end up saying it has to be broken first before it can get fixed.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:46 pm

spot wrote: Not at all - this is what we export, remember? Democratic freedom? You want pressure, you need people behind you. You want people, people want to eat. People have to work to eat, unless they're like me and tighten their belts because there's more important things in life and besides I prefer to use my time myself. But that's where fixing a future for the economy becomes a sine qua non. You have to show it can be done. Of course, if your Controllers lean back, they can break it for as long as they need to re-raise the fear threshold again, it's their economy after all.

Maybe if we infiltrate the teaching profession, assuming there's any future in teaching - the current focus on learning rather than understanding suggests that They've thought of that loophole already. And of course you can't write for the papers any more.

I can see why anarchists might end up saying it has to be broken first before it can get fixed.

I take it you are not a very faith-based person? No disrespect. But from reading what you said above, it appears that God doesn't fit anywhere into your "equation".

Personally, I don't believe that after the Controllers fall this time, and they will, that they will be able to muster up anything close to what they have done for quite some time. It won't be for a 1,000 years or so before they will even begin to be able to try again what they have apparently been so successful at before. But by that time, we Humans will have evolved to immense proportions, and by that time, alot of the Gifts and things that have been forgotten over time will be remembered, and we will be better equipped to handle any of these forces with all of the tools we will have at our disposal.

No....in my mind, we are finishing out God's plan for us. And God's plan for us, to me anyways, would never be a continual cycle of the same thing over and over. Once the lesson has been learned, it's time to move onto a new one. And unfortunately we Humans just haven't been able to get the damn thing right yet. But we are close....very close. And soon I think you will be seeing more of the WE consciousness than more of the I consciousness that has dominated this planet for over 15,000 years. Especially within the last 1,000.

Not sure if you are fimilar with Numerology either? But the number 2 has very special meaning when determining which way our race as a whole will be leaning towards. 2 as in the Year 2,000 - 3,000. Each number has it's own special meaning. But the number 2 represents the WE consciousness, and the number 1 represents the I consciousness. Together, we will make this next 1,000 years an extremely peaceful time, but you have to remember that something like this could have only been done together.

Of course, I plan to cover two more VERY important subjects in this thread as the time passes on. But for now, it's important to cover the Controllers so that people get the jist of whats actually going on right now.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:00 pm

So after all I have posted so far, which country do you guys think will man the helm if the Controllers are successful in getting us all to fall for their World War and if they are successful in their attempts for America to lose it? Who do you think is going to be the recipent of the "Controllers" good graces to lead our World into the 21st century? One word. China.

If history repeats itself and is any indicator, we need to learn a few lessons about nations on the rise and their behavior. Samuel Huntington encapsulates in the following quote what all Americans should be wary of. "Every other major power, Britain and France, Germany and Japan, and the U.S. and the Soviet Union, has engaged in outward expansion, assertion, and imperialism coincidental with or immediately following the years in which it went through rapid industrialization and economic growth. No reason exists to think that the acquisition of economic and military power will not have comparable effects in China."

Here it is folks - Red China - America's greatest threat - A Confucian civilization that has never known freedom in the entirety of its history - a culture that advocates yielding to authority, a structured hierarchy, surrender of individual rights, consensus, meekness, and the State over personal freedom. This is a country that flaunts absolute power and frowns upon checks and balances while telling its people to bow in subservience. This is a civilization so diametrically opposed to our own that you can almost liken them to something alien. Red China possesses, quite literally, everything that the New World Order crowd craves - a conditioned, freedom-less populace and an iron-fisted, tyrannical Government.

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:02 pm

TruthBringer wrote: I take it you are not a very faith-based person? No disrespect. But from reading what you said above, it appears that God doesn't fit anywhere into your "equation". [...] God's plan for us, to me anyways, would never be a continual cycle of the same thing over and over. Once the lesson has been learned, it's time to move onto a new one.Ah! Light dawns. Thank goodness for that.

As it happens, and as an aside, I'm an extraordinarily faith-based person. A continual practical awareness of the presence of God is an essential element of my life and has been for many years. I'm with the Antichrist on this one, though. Any God who turns up on this planet bearing plans of the nature you've described, I'll hamstring to the best of my ability and go down fighting to the last, cursing Him as I go. Fortunately, I don't foresee the eventuality.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:05 pm

spot wrote: Ah! Light dawns. Thank goodness for that.

As it happens, and as an aside, I'm an extraordinarily faith-based person. A continual practical awareness of the presence of God is an essential element of my life and has been for many years. I'm with the Antichrist on this one, though. Any God who turns up on this planet bearing plans of the nature you've described, I'll hamstring to the best of my ability and go down fighting to the last, cursing Him as I go. Fortunately, I don't foresee the eventuality.

And so we are both left with our opinions, and hopefully with a little bit better of a perspective on where we both are coming from. The Truth is my friend, that as is always the Truth, only time will really tell. And so all you and I can do is continue to do what it is that we believe is right, and hope that we're both making a difference. In one way or the other.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:24 pm

If anyone thinks that the above characterization is inaccurate or too strong, simply hearken back to what happened at the Tiananmen Square student uprising again. The Chinese Military swooped down and killed with a vengeance, and those protestors not eliminated on the spot were executed shortly thereafter without a trial. These are vicious, bloodthirsty leaders that won't bat an eye at further enslaving their people.

Here is the perfectly docile, unquestioning automaton citizenry portrayed in George Orwell's 1984, yet with an obedient army of millions and plenty of newfound Western technology. Forget about Afghanistan and Iraq. They're only precursors being used to prime the pump. Then, when we're sufficiently weakened, BAM, the Chinese could come in and lay us out and land the final death blow! If this description is still not enough, ask yourself this question: would your life be freer under Red Chinese rule? The answer is obvious. If the Chinese leaders haven't respected freedom of speech or individual rights for the last few thousand years, what makes you think that they'll start now?

The primary reason why China has become such a force to be reckoned with is because the Controllers have been inundating them with enormous amounts of Western technology for the past decade from both the private and public sectors. This includes computer hardware and software, satellites, military technology and weaponry, and the means of advanced production for their factories. The growth of their gross domestic product has more than doubled in twenty years from 6% in 1972 to 13.5 in 1993, and as Kishore Mahbubani wrote in the CFR's Foreign Affairs January-February edition, "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century."

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:45 pm

TruthBringer wrote: ... as Kishore Mahbubani wrote in the CFR's Foreign Affairs January-February edition, "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century."I think it's about time to start checking your claimed sources, because I think you're making up your quotes to bolster whatever case you think you have to offer.

The last seven January-February editions of Foreign Affairs are at http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2006/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2005/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2004/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2003/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2002/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2001/1.html and http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2000/1.html and none of them have articles by Kishore Mahbubani. Would you like to show us - since their entire full-text editions are there online - where he wrote "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century."? (these are your quote marks, by the way, not mine). The language is your style, not his style at all. The only other place I can find reference to this article is at http://p198.ezboard.com/fzionscampfrm16 ... D=72.topic and I believe you wrote that too, under another name - do please tell me if I'm wrong about that.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:49 pm

spot wrote: I think it's about time to start checking your claimed sources, because I think you're making up your quotes to bolster whatever case you think you have to offer.

The last seven January-February editions of Foreign Affairs are at http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2006/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2005/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2004/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2003/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2002/1.html http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2001/1.html and http://www.foreignaffairs.org/2000/1.html and none of them have articles by Kishore Mahbubani. Would you like to show us - since their entire full-text editions are there online - where he wrote "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century."? (these are your quote marks, by the way, not mine). The language is your style, not his style at all. The only other place I can find reference to this article is at http://p198.ezboard.com/fzionscampfrm16 ... D=72.topic and I believe you wrote that too, under another name - do please tell me if I'm wrong about that.

No you are completely wrong. Check the CIA World Facts book my friend. Check other sources all over the internet. The information is there for everyone to see. If everything stays the same, Red China will become the World's largest economy by the year 2020. Practicly every person in the World knows this, so why don't you?

Oh and you can try and debunk my information all you want to. But you won't be able to. This information is factual. I will not tell you who I am, because that doesn't matter. All that matters is that time will show you that all of this information was True. And it won't really matter, because as I said you can take everything that I have said here and test it against the facts. And the facts will prove it right! So.....keep on pretending to get along with me one minute and not the next. I don't have time for your mind games my friend. I am sorry, but if you want to argue against my information, you'll have to do better than that.

Why not come up with an actual "arguement" against it instead of trying to prove my facts wrong? Obviously you can't so.....you mine as well just admit it.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:51 pm

With the second and third largest economies in the World in the 1990's, Asia is likely to have four of the five largest and seven of the ten largest economies by 2020. If everything remains the same, then by that date Asian societies are likely to account for over 40% of the global economic product.

Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim told the International Herald Tribune on January 31, 1994 that, "Asia's increasing prosperity means that it is now in a position to offer serious alternatives to the dominant global, political, social, and economic arrangements."

These words are coming from political leaders and CFR members that the global elite listen to intently. And what they are saying is that Asian civilizations are primed to assume a leadership role on the World stage, replacing us as king of the hill. And folks, the writing is on the wall. This is going to happen if things do not change. And why? Because the New World Planners have funded and provided for Red China's economic independence so that they can expand their influence, maximize profits, and capitalize on cheap, docile Asian labor. Not only does this phenomenon strengthen the Pacific Rim, but it also weakens our manufacturing base in the United States at the same time. It is actually cheaper for companies in this country to import steel manufactured in China and to ship it across the ocean than it is for them to produce it domestically! There is something seriously wrong with that equation, and the result is that our economy falters while Red China becomes more self-reliant and primed to move forward.

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:55 pm

TruthBringer wrote: Why not come up with an actual "arguement" against it instead of trying to prove my facts wrong? Obviously you can't so.....you mine as well just admit it.Perhaps you didn't read my post? I said that you invented a reference source out of thin air. Why do you feel the need for external references if they aren't there to add support to your claims? Surely you must realize that an invented quote is going to cheapen your credibility.

To summarize, what I asked was for confirmation that your claimed authority was genuine, and not a specious invention on your part.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:56 pm

spot wrote: Perhaps you didn't read my post? I said that you invented a reference source out of thin air. Why do you feel the need for external references if they aren't there to add support to your claims? Surely you must realize that an invented quote is going to cheapen your credibility.

To summarize, what I asked was for confirmation that your claimed authority was genuine, and not a specious invention on your part.

I did not invent any reference post. The person who I claimed said that did. And the reference that I got it from is correct. I was not the one who claimed that he said it dumb ass. But the person who did claim that is internationally known. And trust me, he wouldn't lie.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:58 pm

Look, like I said, go to anywhere on the internet and type in who will have the biggest economy by the year 2020 if everything stays the same. And you will see that every source will tell you that it's China!

So the point is, whether or not you believe that my source was correct, THE INFORMATION WAS CORRECT!

So you are getting nowhere with your arguement. What little of an arguement you have that is.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:04 pm

TruthBringer wrote: Look, like I said, go to anywhere on the internet and type in who will have the biggest economy by the year 2020 if everything stays the same. And you will see that every source will tell you that it's China!

So the point is, whether or not you believe that my source was correct, THE INFORMATION WAS CORRECT!

So you are getting nowhere with your arguement. What little of an arguement you have that is.
Why is it that people believe what they read on the web is gospel, just because it's on the web? The internet does not contain any mis-information?

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:06 pm

TruthBringer wrote: So the point is, whether or not you believe that my source was correct, THE INFORMATION WAS CORRECT!Of course your information was correct insofar as China will be the dominant world economy at some point in the next fifty years - I have no doubt of that in the slightest, I look forward to it, it will be a wonderful moment and I'll applaud loudly.

None of the possible journals you cited have articles by Kishore Mahbubani. So, again, would you like to show us - since their entire full-text editions are there online - where he wrote "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century."?

In my opinion you have invented a non-existent citation and claimed the man said something that I don't believe he ever said. If you're the sort of person who's prepared to invent a citation and invent quotes, how is anyone to take anything you say on trust?

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:08 pm

Tell you what dip stick. I'll do you one better.

Here is a list of web sites on the internet that all claim that China will have the largest economy by the year 2020-2030. So whether Petey Pablo or Mick Jagger said it, the point is that it's the Truth. And I only post the Truth. So if you care to attack my character again you better be prepared to back up your claims against me because I won't sit back and take it.

Here are the websites. You want to argue with them too?

http://www.iie.com/publications/pb/pb.cfm?researchid=81

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of ... c_of_China

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/china.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiap ... uperpower/

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiap ... uperpower/

http://www.cia.gov/nic/NIC_globaltrend2020_s2.html

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fan ... 0by%202020'

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:09 pm

spot wrote: Of course your information was correct insofar as China will be the dominant world economy at some point in the next fifty years - I have no doubt of that in the slightest, I look forward to it, it will be a wonderful moment and I'll applaud loudly.

None of the possible journals you cited have articles by Kishore Mahbubani. So, again, would you like to show us - since their entire full-text editions are there online - where he wrote "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century."?

In my opinion you have invented a non-existent citation and claimed the man said something that I don't believe he ever said. If you're the sort of person who's prepared to invent a citation and invent quotes, how is anyone to take anything you say on trust?

Once again I am not going to name the source that I got that from but I guarantee you that he wouldn't lie. Just because your ass was unable to find it doesn't mean that I can't. Would you like me to find it for you?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:11 pm

BabyRider wrote: Why is it that people believe what they read on the web is gospel, just because it's on the web? The internet does not contain any mis-information?
Helloooooooo........?

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:12 pm

Here are references to the same man that you are claiming never said that. And guess what, lo and behold, the same man Kishore Mahbubani is claimed to have said many things about China, including their economy.

Hold on though....I'm getting warmer and warmer to crushing all your points.

http://www.ndu.edu/inss/books/Books%20- ... tcch3.html

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:13 pm

I'll be damned Spot. Another website here who is claiming that Keshore had predicted that China will have the greatest economy by 2020! Which is exactly what I said....

http://asiaeast.blogspot.com/2005_01_01 ... chive.html

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:14 pm

TruthBringer wrote: Once again I am not going to name the source that I got that from but I guarantee you that he wouldn't lie. Just because your ass was unable to find it doesn't mean that I can't. Would you like me to find it for you?Yes please. You've said "trust me, he wouldn't lie" and I believe you've lied about the words "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century" appearing in any January-February edition of Foreign Affairs, which was your citation.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:17 pm

http://www.sustainabilitank.info/

And there is another site that claims that Keshore is very familiar with the China subject.

Ok now my friend, lets look at the facts here. I have already provided in 2 seconds what you could not. I provided legitimate sites on the internet that all state that this guy Keshore (whom I do not know and have never met personally), is going around telling the World that China will have the greatest economy by 2020.

Now...your claim was that he never told those people that China will have the greatest economy by 2020. You said that the man never said anything like that. I came back and showed you that you got your little hand caught in the cookie jar, because if he's telling the whole World that China will have the greatest economy by 2020, what makes you think he didn't say it to them? Whether you can find it or not.

So...what it comes down to is this. Who are you people going to believe here. Spot or Myself? Not only has Spot blatently admitted that China will have the largest economy by 2020-2050, which is basicly the same thing as saying that my information was correct, but then I went ahead and proved that this guy Keshore is very well known and has told many people including the media that China is slated to have the largest economy by 2020.

So.....the choice is yours. Who are you going to believe? Someone with no arguement at all, or someone with the facts?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:20 pm

TruthBringer wrote:

Hold on though....I'm getting warmer and warmer to crushing all your points.

Oh, THIS I gotta see. Spot's a tough one, TB. Why are you battling?? Why does this have to be who "wins"?

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:23 pm

Alright Spot and now for the final blow to your arguement. The final blow that will show everyone on this board that all you were doing was blowing hot air.

Here is a direct link to a site that claims that Keshore did in fact speak with the Foreign Press Review (FPR) and that it was a January-February edition just like I said it was.

http://www.avsam.org/fpr/report.htm

Here is another one that not only mentions his whole name - Keshore Mahbubani - but it also mentions the words Foreign Affairs. Vol. 74, No. 1 (January/Feb....which is the exact volume that you can find his information in!!!!

http://aunvirtualu.dlsu.edu.ph/Philippi ... tions.html

So what have I proved?

I have proved that you are a liar.

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:24 pm

TruthBringer wrote: Now...your claim was that he never told those people that China will have the greatest economy by 2020. You said that the man never said anything like that.You're not reading what I write, "TruthBringer".

I believe you've lied about the words "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century" appearing in any January-February edition of Foreign Affairs, which was your citation.

I further believe you've invented the claimed quote "The Red Chinese economy will become the World's largest early in the twenty-first century" as being the words of Kishore Mahbubani. You do understand the nature of quote marks don't you, "TruthBringer"? That the words within quotation marks are not your own paraphrase but the original words of the claimed author?

Of course he didn't write it. You wrote it.

You then put quote marks around it to make it look good, and you then compounded your fraud by claiming it was from a respected Journal when in fact it isn't in that Journal at all.

I've only picked that single instance of your slapdash approach to "Truth" because the entire Journal is freely and immediately available for anyone to check my statements.

Can you find the quote in the claimed Journal, or can you not?

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:25 pm

Alright Spot and now for the final blow to your arguement. The final blow that will show everyone on this board that all you were doing was blowing hot air.

Here is a direct link to a site that claims that Keshore did in fact speak with the Foreign Press Review (FPR) and that it was a January-February edition just like I said it was.

http://www.avsam.org/fpr/report.htm

Here is another one that not only mentions his whole name - Keshore Mahbubani - but it also mentions the words Foreign Affairs. Vol. 74, No. 1 (January/Feb....which is the exact volume that you can find his information in!!!!

http://aunvirtualu.dlsu.edu.ph/Philippi ... tions.html

So what have I proved?

I have proved that you are a liar.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:25 pm

And again...another site that proves that I was correct in what I said.

http://www.ndu.edu/inss/books/Books%20- ... tcch3.html

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:26 pm

And another one.

http://www.uscpublicdiplomacy.org/index ... 20_22_2005

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:28 pm

So whats it gonna be this time Spot? Are you gonna tell me that I lied about Bush being the President of the United States? Because last time I checked, he was.

The only question I have for you is this Spot....why in the World would you come on here and attack my sources without having done what appears to be absolutely no research into the matter at all.

I not only found sites that proved that what I said was correct, but I found sites that actually gave the fricken volume number! lol.

Anyways..I'm done arguing with you about this. For a little while there...I actually thought you had a point. And I am not going to lie I was insulted beyond belief. But I feel alot better now knowing that I posted the Truth in the first place, and that all you seemed to have posted was alot of nothing.

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:29 pm

Thank you for the "Volume 74" addition - the full text of the article is at http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19950101f ... c-way.html

If you pull it up and search for "Red China" - as I just did - you'll find no match at all.

The quote is entirely false, as I've been trying to point out all along.

**added text** excuse my finger slip... that should of course read "Red Chinese" - neither search finds a match.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:32 pm

Here's the links to the volume number in case you try to come back with some more excuses.

http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~jnye/previo ... uary%2FFeb'

http://www2.selu.edu/Academics/Depts/Re ... ard-2.html

http://www.ssc.upenn.edu/polisci/course ... uary%2FFeb'

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:33 pm

You idiot! Do I have to copy and paste his name with the volume from these sites so you will believe me? Holy crap...you don't give up do you?

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:35 pm

Here we go round the Mary-go-round Spot.

Here's a link from the fricken Council on Foreign Relations that claims that Keyshore made the claim!!

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/author/ki ... index.html

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:36 pm

TruthBringer wrote: Here's the links to the volume number in case you try to come back with some more excuses.Yes, we've agreed the Volume number, thank you. I've posted the URL to the entire full text of the article in question, together with the fact that anyone, with a single click, can verify that the claimed text of your quote doesn't appear anywhere in it.

Why are you still pushing this? Your claimed text was an invention. I said you lied, and lie you did. Do you really not understand plain English?

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:36 pm

Here is Kishore's exact article from Foreign Affairs.

The Pacific Way

Kishore Mahbubani

From Foreign Affairs, January/February 1995

Article preview: first 500 of 3,579 words total.

Summary: Western thinkers assume that the rise of East Asian powers will inevitably result in conflict and that these nations will become more like Western societies. Neither is likely. East Asia's nations have emerged from colonial obscurity to center stage. They will not succumb to ruinous wars. The difficulty that Western minds face in grasping the ascent of East Asia comes from the unprecedented nature of this phenomenon: a fusion of Western and East Asian cultures in the Asia-pacific region.

Kishore Mahbubani is Permanent Secretary of Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Dean of the Civil Service College. These are his personal views.

Topics:

Asia

National Security and Defense

Social and Cultural Issues

The Nanjing Massacre in History and Historiography

Edited by Joshua A. Fogel. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2000.

Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War II

John W. Dower. New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 1999.

Cultural Norms and National Security

Peter J. Katzenstein. Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1996.

A CULTURAL FUSION

The significant difference between the 21st century and the preceding centuries is that there will be three centers of world power (Europe, North America, and East Asia) as opposed to two in the twentieth (Europe and North America) and one before that (Europe). For centuries Europe set the course of world history: it colonized distant parts of the world, it shook up other empires and societies (including China, India, Japan, and Islam), and its people occupied relatively empty places (North America and Australasia). In the twentieth century the two World Wars and the succeeding Cold War were essentially European struggles. East Asia, by contrast, had little impact on the rest of the world.

The world is greatly indebted to Europe. The huge creative burst there over the past five centuries has carried mankind to where it is today. Conceivably (judging from the progress made between the tenth and fifteenth centuries), we could still be only a few steps away from the Dark Ages. Europe has carried the world on its shoulders.

Now East Asia has arrived on the world stage. Its sheer economic weight will give it a voice and a role. As recently as 1960, Japan and East Asia together accounted for 4 percent of world GNP, while the United States, Canada, and Mexico represented 37 percent. Today both groups have about the same hare of the world's GNP (some 24 percent each), but, with more than half the world's economic growth taking place in Asia in the 1990s, the economies of North America and Europe will progressively become relatively smaller.

Western thinkers are having considerable difficulty finding the right paradigm to describe a world where non?Western powers are emerging. Their natural impulse is to assume that, as they succeed, these powers will become more like Western societies (an assumption implicit in the "end of history" thesis) or that there will be a "clash of civilizations." Neither is likely. The difficulty that Western minds face in grasping the arrival of East Asia arises from the fact that we are witnessing an unprecedented historical phenomenon: a fusion of Western and East Asian cultures in the Asia?Pacific region. It is this fusion, not a renaissance of ancient Asian glories, that explains the explosive growth of the Pacific and provides the possibility of continued peace and prosperity in the region.

ASIA'S TIME IN THE SUN

Most strategic analysts assume that Europe's experience provides the only good basis from which to extrapolate East Asia's future. Consequently, conventional wisdom on East Asia's prospects carries more pessimism than optimism. Richard K. Betts says that "one of the reasons for optimism about peace in Europe is the apparent satisfaction of the great powers with the status quo," while in East Asia there is "an ample pool of festering grievances, with more potential for generating conflict than during the Cold War, when bipolarity helped stifle the escalation of parochial disputes." Aaron L. Friedberg says, "While civil war and ethnic strife will continue for some time to smoulder along Europe's peripheries, ...

End of preview: first 500 of 3,579 words total.

Here is the link to it!!!!

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19950101f ... c-way.html

Now what do you have to say?