Translated Ancient Documents Refute the Bible
April 7, 2006 11:27 PM CDT :playVideo('746295', 'Translated%20Ancient%20Documents%20Refute%20the%20Bible', 'v', 'News', '146533', 'News', '', '');">:playVideo('746295', 'Translated%20Ancient%20Documents%20Refute%20the%20Bible', 'v', 'News', '146533', 'News', '', '');">Translated Ancient Documents Refute the Bible
This translation claims judas was a favored disciple and that Jesus gave hime special knowledge.
The story for 2000 years has been that Judas betrayed Jesus. Today we set out to find out what impact, if any this writing will have on local church's and their beliefs.
"We kind of look at that and say yeah we've known about that for 1,800 years and it is kind of the same old story," said Michael Lee, Adult Education Coordinator at the Holy Apostles Catholic Church.
Of the three people we spoke to they say this won't impact their beliefs or refute their religious teachings.
"From the Jewish perspective this is one of many discoveries and it bears little impact on the Jewish way of thinking," said Rabbi Mendel Lifshitz, of the Chabad Jewish Center.
"I don't believe it will shake my faith at all," said Steve Tollefson, Senior Pastor at The First United Methodist Church in Boise, "I don't think knowledge or facts are going to threaten my faith, usually it enhances and sometimes challenges which will cause me to do some thinking which is usually a healthy thing."
"I think there will be some people that might read it and think: oh wow the possibilities, but serious Catholics will realize very quickly these people weren't eye witnesses," said Lee.
Lee also said this text is from a religious sect called the Nostics who had exremely un-Christian ideas about God. He believes there's a lot of evidence that suggests this text is more of an insight into Nosticism, but doesn't affect Christianity.
"The only connection to Christianity there is that it says Jesus and it says Judas, other than that what it teaches is completely different than what Orthodox Christianity has believed for her whole 2000 years of existence," said Lee.
One thing that may be surprising is the large number of gospels that have been written in history. Some believe the reason this text has caused such excitement is because of recent popularity of books like, The Da Vinci Code. And while everyone agreed this text has no impact on their beliefs, there's still value.
"What this will proviide to our church is that it would be an interesting Sunday school program to hear the gospel of Judas in contrast to what tradition has to say about Judas," said Tollefson.
The "Gospel According to Judas" was found along the Nile River in Egypt in the 1970's. The papyrus pages were passed around through various antiquities dealers and ultimately ended up in a bank vault in New York.
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
So if Im getting you right, its safer not to question ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
The manuscript about Judas is not part of the Bible, like many other books not canonized. I know I will not consider studying it..........................
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
chonsigirl wrote: The manuscript about Judas is not part of the Bible, like many other books not canonized. I know I will not consider studying it..........................
Why would it be offensive to explore the possibility that the book of Judas was omitted by design ?
Why would it be offensive to explore the possibility that the book of Judas was omitted by design ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Actually Nomad, there is a Bible verse that warns about other "gospels" and so I apply that verse to situations like this. I am speaking for myself, of course. It is up to the individual to decide what they choose to believe.
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Hmm, I don't see the word heretic in my post...................only in yours.
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Nothing, it was just a point Diuretic.
My post says I only speak for myself, others can believe as they are led.
Anything more explicit then that, I would probably post on the other religious threads.
My post says I only speak for myself, others can believe as they are led.
Anything more explicit then that, I would probably post on the other religious threads.
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
“if a man returning from divine contemplations to the petty miseries of men cuts a sorry figure and appears most ridiculous, if, while still blinking through the gloom, and before he has become sufficiently accustomed to the environing darkness, he is compelled in courtrooms or elsewhere to contend about the shadows of justice or the images that cast the shadows and to wrangle in debate about the notions of these things in the minds of those who have never seen justice itself?†“It would be by no men strange,†he said....[517a]
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
What is the point of three separate threads on the same subject?
Excuse me, make that four - two here, two on 'Christianity'.
It makes the discussion kinda hard to follow.
Excuse me, make that four - two here, two on 'Christianity'.
It makes the discussion kinda hard to follow.
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
You never know where each thread will lead.......................
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Bronwen wrote: What is the point of three separate threads on the same subject?
Excuse me, make that four - two here, two on 'Christianity'.
It makes the discussion kinda hard to follow.This one has a point by Chonsi that nobody else has made. I think she's missing something though.
chonsigirl wrote: Actually Nomad, there is a Bible verse that warns about other "gospels" and so I apply that verse to situations like this.Unless you had something else in mind, you're talking about Galatians 1:9 - "if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
I don't imagine Paul's talking about a book, here, he's talking about the "good news" - gospel - that he took to Galatia. He's writing in the 50s AD. Unless you think that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John had finished their books by then and handed copies to both Paul amd the Galatians, he's not talking about the New Testament.
Excuse me, make that four - two here, two on 'Christianity'.
It makes the discussion kinda hard to follow.This one has a point by Chonsi that nobody else has made. I think she's missing something though.
chonsigirl wrote: Actually Nomad, there is a Bible verse that warns about other "gospels" and so I apply that verse to situations like this.Unless you had something else in mind, you're talking about Galatians 1:9 - "if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
I don't imagine Paul's talking about a book, here, he's talking about the "good news" - gospel - that he took to Galatia. He's writing in the 50s AD. Unless you think that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John had finished their books by then and handed copies to both Paul amd the Galatians, he's not talking about the New Testament.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
I am refering to that verse, Spot. But among some fundamentalists, they believe this applies in this present time, to anything added onto accepted Scripture.
This may vary between denominations. One example is that the Bible may or may not contain the Apocrypha. Denominations have differing viewpoints on whether this is Scripture. As do individuals also.
So, it is up to the individual to decide how to approach this subject of Judas.
At this time of Holy Week, the subject of Judas is pertinent on many levels. For myself, tomorrow is Palm Sunday, and a day of rejoicing over the Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem. As the week progresses the special religous days have meaning for now, and for thought and reflection throughout the year. Judas is there with the other disciples and people during the night of betrayal. How you interpret the recent question of Judas is miniscule in comparisson to the Death and Resurrection of the Christ.
*As for debate and how many threads, hey, I posted on Nomad's. I really do not want to go heavy into the debates, because my belief system is fixed and unchangable about most things. Too much strife here on FG lately in many areas, and I would rather put my concentration on the lighter side of things when visiting here. But everyone can post where they want to, it is their privelege granted to us by FG admin. I will just say, think on the meaning of the days ahead and the meanings they hold for those whose belief it is.*
This may vary between denominations. One example is that the Bible may or may not contain the Apocrypha. Denominations have differing viewpoints on whether this is Scripture. As do individuals also.
So, it is up to the individual to decide how to approach this subject of Judas.
At this time of Holy Week, the subject of Judas is pertinent on many levels. For myself, tomorrow is Palm Sunday, and a day of rejoicing over the Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem. As the week progresses the special religous days have meaning for now, and for thought and reflection throughout the year. Judas is there with the other disciples and people during the night of betrayal. How you interpret the recent question of Judas is miniscule in comparisson to the Death and Resurrection of the Christ.
*As for debate and how many threads, hey, I posted on Nomad's. I really do not want to go heavy into the debates, because my belief system is fixed and unchangable about most things. Too much strife here on FG lately in many areas, and I would rather put my concentration on the lighter side of things when visiting here. But everyone can post where they want to, it is their privelege granted to us by FG admin. I will just say, think on the meaning of the days ahead and the meanings they hold for those whose belief it is.*
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
chonsigirl wrote: I am refering to that verse, Spot. But among some fundamentalists, they believe this applies in this present time, to anything added onto accepted Scripture.I wonder whether you could discuss why that belief should be common, Chonsi. It seems odd to me that a letter written to a specific church refering to the teaching they'd received from the author should be extrapolated. It seems to assume that if Paul were to have written elsewhere, after his death, to a church in a different circumstance, with different books available (in this case the finished New Testament), he'd tell them to use the canonical testaments and nothing else, even though he'd never seen the New Testament in his own lifetime. It seems a long leap, that's all.
We know a lot about the Gospel that Paul preached - it's embedded in his letters. He says "any other gospel unto you than that ye have received" knowing what he'd given them. I think a literal interpretation of what Paul wrote would exclude all four Gospels and Revelations too, at least. If you allow those to be added to Paul's gospel news that he taught to the Galatians, that's fine by me, but to then turn the statement round, and say Paul protects the final canonical New Testament from further amendment with his curse, lacks a certain logic.
We know a lot about the Gospel that Paul preached - it's embedded in his letters. He says "any other gospel unto you than that ye have received" knowing what he'd given them. I think a literal interpretation of what Paul wrote would exclude all four Gospels and Revelations too, at least. If you allow those to be added to Paul's gospel news that he taught to the Galatians, that's fine by me, but to then turn the statement round, and say Paul protects the final canonical New Testament from further amendment with his curse, lacks a certain logic.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
spot:-6
You have made some good points and I concur.
Shalom
Ted:-6
You have made some good points and I concur.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Well Spot and Ted, I really would rather dwell on the approach of Holy Week than go into this at this point of time. It may lack a certain logic in your perspective, but it is what many believe and my heart and mind are on Palm Sunday tomorrow and the worries of cantata music for church in the morning..................
*I just lost one of my soloists!*
*on topic*
May you have a wonderful week ahead, all of you. See you on the flip side of FG.
*I just lost one of my soloists!*
*on topic*
May you have a wonderful week ahead, all of you. See you on the flip side of FG.
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Chonsi:-6
I can appreciate that. I hope things work out well for you.
I am just about finished a fantastic book and one that is most appropriate for Lent;
"The Last Week" by Borg and Crossan.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I can appreciate that. I hope things work out well for you.
I am just about finished a fantastic book and one that is most appropriate for Lent;
"The Last Week" by Borg and Crossan.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Thank you Ted.
I am almost finished listening to the CD the last time, and will dream of beautiful music for church tomorrow. And I called the understudy, who will take the part.
*whew*
I will remember the book you have suggested for my week off coming up...........
I am almost finished listening to the CD the last time, and will dream of beautiful music for church tomorrow. And I called the understudy, who will take the part.
*whew*
I will remember the book you have suggested for my week off coming up...........
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Chonsi:-6
My father was a professional musician for most of his life and a church organist and choir director in the same church for 36 years. I used to sing in the choir. Thus I think I do understand your position. Have a good day.
I'm learning to play the organ but am the preacher and academic in the family and enjoy both very much.
May the peace of Christ be with you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
My father was a professional musician for most of his life and a church organist and choir director in the same church for 36 years. I used to sing in the choir. Thus I think I do understand your position. Have a good day.
I'm learning to play the organ but am the preacher and academic in the family and enjoy both very much.
May the peace of Christ be with you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
chonsigirl wrote: And I called the understudy, who will take the part.You can be fairly sure that you're not going to be the only nervous person sleeping tonight then!
Come back and tell us how it was received and how you found it yourself, it sounds like you've all put a lot of thought and effort into getting it to work. There's a difference between how you see something you've done, and how others see it - you're bound to think back and see small variations as glaring, and your congregation is bound to be polite. Somewhere between the two is what happens.
Come back and tell us how it was received and how you found it yourself, it sounds like you've all put a lot of thought and effort into getting it to work. There's a difference between how you see something you've done, and how others see it - you're bound to think back and see small variations as glaring, and your congregation is bound to be polite. Somewhere between the two is what happens.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
To Ted: I am an MK, and am the musician in the family. I am currently the interrum Music Director, new one comes in 2nd week of June. At that point I will move down to #2 music position, and be in charge of the orchestra/musicians. The senior pastor wants to keep me on staff-this is the second time I have done this position for my church, music pastors seems to come and go every couple of years. So as a lay person, I was happily surprised they wanted me to remain on staff in a smaller position, to accomadate my home needs with my husband.
To Spot, you are wise as always in thinking of evaluting something. A point that lies somewhere in the middle. Here is my perspective of the 2 positions:
Musical: Once Upon a Cross
Choir number: 35-well balanced
Music type: ranges from southern gospel to contemporary Christian music
I included the children in one song, drama for one scene, everything else was a homemade DVD production with appropriate scenes from the Jesus film, or nature scenes for the creation of the world. And one duet-a female soloist with another woman hand-signing artistically the words to Nothing But The Blood of Jesus. Oh, very pretty.
My perspective: They did an excellent job, very self-directing choir usually. The hardest thing for them was I made them memorize it all, no books. Ha! Then they could watch me! But they peeked at the drama scene, I added that myself. It was a desription of the need of the sacrifice of the lamb prior to Jesus' death on the Cross. It was one I knew would make the grannies sniff and dab their eyes, and I went for the dramatic aspect as well as the parallel meanings. Last 1/3 of the musical is very upbeat in music after the Resurrection, so I know it was well received if the congregation is clapping and stomping their feet and singing along with the music, we all know the words to these songs.
Choir perspective: I did not hear any negative comments. Technical difficulties of them switching mikes on us prior to service, and I tried to switch them back for the 2nd time around. That didn't work, the guys in the sound booth cut it off. Also, I think they were very happy that they had memorized it, to be free to worship as they pleased during the songs. They could clap or raise their hands if they wanted to.
We do it once more on Good Friday, when we have a banquet for the people who we regularly give food out to on a weekly basis. The choir serves them dinner, eats for awhile with them, and then we get ready to sing again for them. We send the guests home with bags of food, an Easter ham, things like that. It is an outreach ministry.
To Spot, you are wise as always in thinking of evaluting something. A point that lies somewhere in the middle. Here is my perspective of the 2 positions:
Musical: Once Upon a Cross
Choir number: 35-well balanced
Music type: ranges from southern gospel to contemporary Christian music
I included the children in one song, drama for one scene, everything else was a homemade DVD production with appropriate scenes from the Jesus film, or nature scenes for the creation of the world. And one duet-a female soloist with another woman hand-signing artistically the words to Nothing But The Blood of Jesus. Oh, very pretty.
My perspective: They did an excellent job, very self-directing choir usually. The hardest thing for them was I made them memorize it all, no books. Ha! Then they could watch me! But they peeked at the drama scene, I added that myself. It was a desription of the need of the sacrifice of the lamb prior to Jesus' death on the Cross. It was one I knew would make the grannies sniff and dab their eyes, and I went for the dramatic aspect as well as the parallel meanings. Last 1/3 of the musical is very upbeat in music after the Resurrection, so I know it was well received if the congregation is clapping and stomping their feet and singing along with the music, we all know the words to these songs.
Choir perspective: I did not hear any negative comments. Technical difficulties of them switching mikes on us prior to service, and I tried to switch them back for the 2nd time around. That didn't work, the guys in the sound booth cut it off. Also, I think they were very happy that they had memorized it, to be free to worship as they pleased during the songs. They could clap or raise their hands if they wanted to.
We do it once more on Good Friday, when we have a banquet for the people who we regularly give food out to on a weekly basis. The choir serves them dinner, eats for awhile with them, and then we get ready to sing again for them. We send the guests home with bags of food, an Easter ham, things like that. It is an outreach ministry.
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
It sounds like a huge church, Chonsi, and you sound like you've really enjoyed putting that together. I'm more accustomed to services with between ten and a hundred in the congregation, more often the low end of that than the high end.
Have you ever posted here about your MK background, where you saw and what you got from it? I expect you did but I missed seeing it.
Have you ever posted here about your MK background, where you saw and what you got from it? I expect you did but I missed seeing it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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chonsigirl
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The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
I do not think I have posted much on that. My father served with many Christian organizations. We went to many places and countries. I have an adopted brother and sister who are Korean, from the time we spent there. My father served last with MAF, Missionary Aviation Fellowship, non-denominational, that flies airplanes in and out of remote areas of the world to serve missionaries and their familes there.(the movie End of the Spear was about this organization, and their familes and the dangers and rewards of missionary service) MAF provides medical supplies, bringing in preachers, etc. My father's last preaching tour was in Central America, he died in Honduras while on an evangelism tour with the local minister and an MAF pilot. I was 16 at the time.
*if I could have had one wish today, besides wishing my husband could have went to church but could not, I would have wished that my father in heaven could have heard the music-these things I will not know until I am there*
The influence of my father and the upbringing that I have, it has shaped me into the person I am at this point in life. A life that has the love of God and service to God as a central focus point. So, it has carried over into the next generation as well, with one current preacher in the family. I have always done something at church, I usually do something in the area of music, since it is my gift. I play the piano, the violin, sing in the choir-things like that. I am not one to sit there and not contribute in a positive manner. I have a deep belief in God, the teachings of the Bible, and raising my family with this knowledge. I lived through the last 1 1/2 years with my husband's illness, and know he is alive today because God is active in our lives. Through prayer, he awoke when they said he would not. He is home, when they said he would never leave a nursing home. He is sitting in the other room watching TV, and can talk a few sentences here and there. I know it is because of God. I may work alot, but all bills have been paid and not a one is late, a very big miracle in itself. I think this all has bearing on my upbringing, and what I was taught about God and the Bible.
*if I could have had one wish today, besides wishing my husband could have went to church but could not, I would have wished that my father in heaven could have heard the music-these things I will not know until I am there*
The influence of my father and the upbringing that I have, it has shaped me into the person I am at this point in life. A life that has the love of God and service to God as a central focus point. So, it has carried over into the next generation as well, with one current preacher in the family. I have always done something at church, I usually do something in the area of music, since it is my gift. I play the piano, the violin, sing in the choir-things like that. I am not one to sit there and not contribute in a positive manner. I have a deep belief in God, the teachings of the Bible, and raising my family with this knowledge. I lived through the last 1 1/2 years with my husband's illness, and know he is alive today because God is active in our lives. Through prayer, he awoke when they said he would not. He is home, when they said he would never leave a nursing home. He is sitting in the other room watching TV, and can talk a few sentences here and there. I know it is because of God. I may work alot, but all bills have been paid and not a one is late, a very big miracle in itself. I think this all has bearing on my upbringing, and what I was taught about God and the Bible.
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Christ says to seek, knock and open, so to me he's saying have a look around, seek truth ,dont be afraid of what you may find, your faith will lead you to what to keep and what to dismiss, but nothing harmful can come from having a look at what is out there, its just if ones faith is weak that could lead to confusION.We also may find greater truth if we do seek a little more, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear,so yea, its a good thing to keep an open mind always.Who knows we may learn something!:yh_cow
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Perhaps the story of Judas is a parable not unlike those used by Jesus to teach truths.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
There is truth in everything, if we consider all things.: :yh_cow
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
Aisling wrote: There is truth in everything, if we consider all things.There would be no expressible truth in anything, if we could consider all things.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
"One can know much and express little"
The Bible Revised ? Was Judas A Saint ?
For prophesy to be fulfilled someone had to "hand over"the Christ.It is possible that Christ did "ask" Judas to be the one to do it,if so ,one would have to consider it possible that the relationship Christ had with Judas was a very close one, to do this for another would have to be done out of a great love or belief (and trust)in what was to come.Perhaps Judas is something more than we have understood, we have only had certain texts to rely on,till now, now with the release of many Gnostic texts and alike we are seeing more of what the other Apostles and Disciples were privy to, Thomas, Mary M,and Judas just to name a few.WE've been only given so much by the Church Fathers in the past,much was kept out of our hands,as Christ said"all that is hidden will be revealed",maybe this is the time.