Acts of love.. or cruelty?

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:06 am

I threw my 21 year old son out of my apartment last night. I feel sick and rattled this morning. I let him come live with me about 4 months ago when I returned from Georgia. Hes had a rough couple of years. Had a wife and new baby leave him. He took it very hard. He has not been able to pull himself together. I love him so much. He doesnt work. Wont or cant keep a job. He sleeps all day... eats me down to the walls... is a complete slob... and is also often belligerent, rude, and angry. He gets high. Often he is out all night and sleeps for days. I cannot take it anymore. I dont want to live like this. I am so torn. On the one hand I feel entiltled to my privacy and my peace at home. On the other I feel selfish for not having the strength to continue with this mission to " save him" Last night he was high.. Slipped a girlfriend into his room while I dozed on the couch. I threw them both out of here. He called later to ask" Why are you putting me out of here tonite? My heart is broken. What is the point of explaing it to him anymore. He doesnt hear me......... What upsets me is the way their behavior makes you turn ugly. The things I have to say make me feel sick. Why doesnt love and support and sacrifice work? Am I really supposed to believe that my action will make him see the light? I would go on with things the way they were if I thought it was doing him any good. But it isnt. And I am contributing to his living like a vegetabe. I wish so much that I had a sense of entitlement and self preservation for myself. Then I could do the right thing, and not suffer. Help me. Tell me I wasnt wrong to end this. The thing that really gets me is that HE has a son. He isnt taking care of him. And yet Ive been taking care of him like hes a child.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:14 am

Weeder your son is big enough and ugly enough to start fending for himself and if you carry on being his crutch he will never take back control of his life .Some times toughlove is all thats left .goodluck

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:24 am

You're a mom. There's two sides to that job, but both come from the same loving place.

You done good, Weeder. :yh_hugs

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:25 am

Weeder, my kids are too young to have gone through this stage yet, but I can see the pain and anguish you're in. You need to live your life, he has to live his. You've raised him with your morals, he needs to grow up now and live by them. You can't baby him forever, now its time to care for yourself. Other people here have been through this and will give you much better advice than I can. But at least I can give you big hugs and say we're all here for you hunny, rant or sob or scream into the garden and then feel the waves of love and hugs and understanding coming back at ya!

Big, BIG hugs for you, my friend!

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:44 am

This is something I hope to never go through, but who knows. I would hope I would do exactly what you have done. If he asks to come back, lay down some rules. He will come back on your terms or not at all. If he does not stay with those terms, he is out of there for the last time. Try not to feel too bad. You've done the right thing.

Lil~Basco · Post by **Lil~Basco** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:45 am

(((((HUGS))))) No weeder, you sure weren't wrong for ending this with your son. He is a man...one that takes no responsibility for himself or for the life that he brought into this world. You cannot continue to take care of him without him contributing in someway. Maybe this stand you took, will be his wake up call. The more one enables another, the less that individual wants to do for themselves. Sometimes it's so much easier for an adult to pour on the pity me attitude than strive to become something. IMO, you did the right thing, and don't feel guilty or self doubt yourself.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:49 am

Im sorry you have to go through this. Hes lazy and unmotivated. He doesnt realize its time to begin his life and take care of his responsibilities. He has to work ! He must get a job and he must take care of his child, no ifs ands or buts about it. Just do it.

If hes getting high hes non directional and his judgement is clouded. Some people can manage getting stoned and keeping a job, obviously he cant. His priorities are out of whack.

Hes also disrespecting you by sneaking girls in, thats a no go. I havent heard anything that would let me say try again.

But.....

I assume you have talked and talked till your blue in the face. Its going to be real hard for him to get up and running living on the streets. I know. After my parents were divorced I came home and found my stuff on the front lawn. Thats when it got pretty rough and the real drinking and drugging started for me.

Would it be possible to get in his face with a timeline on getting a job and moving out ? Very strict no bullsh!tting around this is what you do and you do it now ?

He cant help with his own child if hes on the street either.

If you cant no one would blame you. You have done your job and your life should begin again free of this kind of crap.

Wheres dad ? Is he of any help at all ?

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:02 am

I had problems with my youngest son when he was a teenager ...although it was hard, I stuck with him through all the up and downs (he always worked though).

I don't think he could have turned that bad time in his life around without that support. He is now in his 30s with his own business, a lovely baby and getting married in June.

Every case is different weeder.....not having a good work ethic and taking drugs are 2 big hurdles to jump. .....it must be very difficult for you and I can only wish you well and let you know that whatever decisions are made there's plenty here to discuss, help and support. :-4

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:56 am

No advice, but big hugs for you Weeder. :yh_hugs :yh_hugs :yh_hugs

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:03 am

It's not often easy to do the right thing. If he's not working, on drugs and womanizing, you would do him no favor to keep on enabling him.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:20 am

telaquapacky wrote: It's not often easy to do the right thing. If he's not working, on drugs and womanizing, you would do him no favor to keep on enabling him.

That was us though a few moons ago wasnt it ?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:45 am

I've never done all three at the same time.

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:54 am

Weeder it will feel bad for a bit, but you did him a favor and now it is up to him to sink or swim.

I did that late last year to my oldest daughter. And I felt just like you, mostly sad because she has always been like my clone. But she became physically abusive to both me and her sister and she never came home never mind on time, she did nothing, would not keep a job etc. So it has been almost 6 months and I am glad I did it. We talk daily, she has taken control of her own life her way, she has faced all kinds of interesting scenario's with room mates who are loud and noice, don't pay rent, and generally disrupt her life like she did with me.... guess what.... She apologized to me for the he** she put me through and is happy now to be learning about life on her own. Her and her BF are doing good, they are expecting their first baby in November and wow she really grew up. I am glad I did it.

I you want to compare notes of just vent feel free to PM me I do know what you are feeling. Be strong and stick by your guns, you have the right to live your life as you wish.

M

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:20 pm

minks wrote: Weeder it will feel bad for a bit, but you did him a favor and now it is up to him to sink or swim.

I did that late last year to my oldest daughter. And I felt just like you, mostly sad because she has always been like my clone. But she became physically abusive to both me and her sister and she never came home never mind on time, she did nothing, would not keep a job etc. So it has been almost 6 months and I am glad I did it. We talk daily, she has taken control of her own life her way, she has faced all kinds of interesting scenario's with room mates who are loud and noice, don't pay rent, and generally disrupt her life like she did with me.... guess what.... She apologized to me for the he** she put me through and is happy now to be learning about life on her own. Her and her BF are doing good, they are expecting their first baby in November and wow she really grew up. I am glad I did it.

I you want to compare notes of just vent feel free to PM me I do know what you are feeling. Be strong and stick by your guns, you have the right to live your life as you wish.

M

God I wish I had been your offspring ! :wah: :p

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:20 pm

Nomad wrote: That was us though a few moons ago wasnt it ?

I always had a job! (and I wasn't IN YO FACE with my parents about my indescretions):o

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:22 pm

Nomad wrote: God I wish I had been your offspring ! :wah: :p

I bet

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:33 pm

minks wrote: I bet

just kidding

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:39 pm

:yh_hugs :yh_hugs :yh_hugs

You're a very special lady, remember that, Weeder, through all this...

jennyswan · Post by **jennyswan** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:36 pm

Weeder you are a saint for putting up with him this long.

He's 21, not a child anymore. It's time he started acting like an adult.

Tough love is sometimes the best kind.

Best of Luck and keep your chin up Love Jenny

Celtic Thunder · Post by **Celtic Thunder** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:28 pm

Weeder

No one can advise you what ever you do is right..............you are living this.

Is there a third party who could relay your point of view.

Your son needs goals.

You threw him out for a reason what would change if you back tracked.......nothing.

Being a mother is the toughest job in the world.

Stay strong

SweetDarlin · Post by **SweetDarlin** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:36 pm

weeder wrote: Help me. Tell me I wasnt wrong to end this. The thing that really gets me is that HE has a son. He isnt taking care of him. And yet Ive been taking care of him like hes a child.I didn't see this until now... I had to do similar a year or two ago... it's hard... probably the hardest... but you did the right thing. Pm me if you want to share details or need some assurance. :-4

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:13 pm

weeder wrote: I threw my 21 year old son out of my apartment last night. I feel sick and rattled this morning.

Boy, this post is really heart-breaking. But it's a fact that mother Eagles throw their children out of the nest when the time comes, if not they'd never learn to fly. It must be just as difficult on her as this is on you.

I let him come live with me about 4 months ago when I returned from Georgia. Hes had a rough couple of years.

And I'd say that's one of the duties of a parent, to support their child when they are going through a change. I've stayed with my parents for a week or two from time to time between career changes.

Had a wife and new baby leave him. He took it very hard. He has not been able to pull himself together.

Not to pry, but has he done any soul searching as to why they would leave him? That's a very big decision for a girl to make, and most I knwo wouldn't make it lightly.

I love him so much.

That goes without saying, knowing you!

He doesnt work. Wont or cant keep a job. He sleeps all day... eats me down to the walls... is a complete slob... and is also often belligerent, rude, and angry.

Whoa! Hold the phone right there! I have kind of a problem with this. A work ethic is mandatory for survival these days. Will he take a job like fast food? They hire anyone. Does he have the attitude that those jobs are "beneath him?" Nothing's beneath a person who is starving.

There could be a self-esteem issue, but I know a cure for self esteem issues. Getting a job. The satisfaction of work and a paycheck will do wonders for that problem. And everyone starts out on the bottom of the ladder, hard work and determination (combined with an education) will quickly get you up the ladder.

So we need to understand why he doesn't want to work.

He gets high.

OK....That would do it. This is most likely the root cause of all the other problems, from the breakup to the unemplyment. Until he gets help with this, nothing else can change. Look around for some counselors, sometimes there are community programs that can help if you're strapped for cash.

Getting him to get help will be a problem, people don't change until they have to. Two ways to do that:

1. Force him to get treatment. The fastest way to do that is to get him arrested, that's probably distasteful to you. (and rightfully so, what parent would want to put their child in jail? Answer: a parent that has tried everything else and is at the end of their rope. (Teaching a child that there are consequences to breaking the law isn't a bad lesson, that's life.)

2. Use postive re-enforcement. If you get treatment I'll...(help you get an apartment of your own, help find you a job, etc. )

Often he is out all night and sleeps for days. I cannot take it anymore. I dont want to live like this.

Who can blame you? You are torn between the life of your son and your own life. It doesn't get worse than that. But as others have suggested, nothing will change until you take the first step. (Without leaving the nest, no Eaglet can fly.)

I am so torn. On the one hand I feel entiltled to my privacy and my peace at home. On the other I feel selfish for not having the strength to continue with this mission to " save him"

Your mission should be over at this point. 21 is far, far beyind your legal responsibility of 18, and truthfully, this relationship is destructive for both of you now as it is. It has to change.

Last night he was high.. Slipped a girlfriend into his room while I dozed on the couch. I threw them both out of here.

This shows a complete lack of respect for you and your house. He holds you in contempt, as shown by his actions.

He called later to ask" Why are you putting me out of here tonite? My heart is broken.

This is called "passive aggression" it is the worst possible psychological weapon. psychologists call it "crazymaking" for a good reason.

Here's an example: "You suck, just kidding." See, I take away any chance you have to object by saying "just kidding."

In this case he knows full well that it is his lack of respect for your rules and your house that caused the problem, but instead of taking responsibility for the problem, he plays the guilt card and says "why are YOU..." putting all the blame on you. It's psychological warfare of the worst sort.

What is the point of explaning it to him anymore. He doesnt hear me......... What upsets me is the way their behavior makes you turn ugly. The things I have to say make me feel sick

Which is exactly what he wants you to feel, that way he can continue to slack off his responsibility, piling it all on you.

Am I really supposed to believe that my action will make him see the light? I would go on with things the way they were if I thought it was doing him any good. But it isnt.

Exactly. They call it "toughlove." and not because it's just tough on the receiver. When you spank a two year old because he ran out in front of a car, you want to achieve a couple of things:

1. You want the lesson to be instantly learned and permanently remembered for the child's safety.

2. You want to teach that there are unpleasant consequences for dangerous or bad behavior.

This situation is exactly the same, and just like the example, it's painful for both parties.

I wish so much that I had a sense of entitlement and self preservation for myself.

You do have that, you told him to leave, didn't you?

Then I could do the right thing, and not suffer.

That's impossible, then you would either have no conscience or no love.

Help me. Tell me I wasnt wrong to end this.

Not only were you not wrong, you literally had no other choice if you truly love your son. You are wrong in thinking that this is the end.

Someday, when life (and you) has forced him to become responsible and caring, he'll come back to you and thank you for doing this. He's not stupid, he knows this is for the best. And like a 5 year old who will deliberately stay up at night to see how far he can go, he's been pushing the limits. It's time to put yor foot down...

And show him that you truly care.

Once, I heard two girls talking, one was upset because her mother put severe limits on her behavior, "She searches my room, I have a curfew and she makes me call her all the time and tell here where I am, " she lamented.

The other girl looked at her and told her, "At least your mom loves you, mine doesn't give a damn what I do."

You see? Kids want rules. They want limits and consequences, it tells them that you have their best interests at heart and that you truly do love them. They'll tell you all day long that they don't, they'll bait you with, "why did you do that to me?" knowing full well it was their behavior that caused the action. What they are hoping for is parenting.

They are hoping you will step up, take them in hand, and force their behavior.

That's exactly what you have done. Now stick to your guns, don't backslide or waffle. That's the worst possible thing to do. Firm but fair, always.

The thing that really gets me is that HE has a son. He isnt taking care of him. And yet Ive been taking care of him like hes a child.

And being a teacher, I can tell you that this kind of thing is cyclic. If you don't give him the guts and the courage to succeed today. if you don't force his hand and make him survive on his own merit, his son has absolutely no chance. And the pattern will repeat itself again and again.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:47 pm

bump for weeder

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:00 pm

Thank You.. Thank You to all of you. Needless to say, I cried on and off at work all day today. When someone connected to you.. Husband or child exhibits horrific values.. you feel compelled to scream.. This is not the example that I set!!! I am hard working, and responsible and honest. I dont know how or why he became this way. I do know that I wouldnt put up with his kind of behavior from anyone

else. My relationship with him has gotten quite sick over the past few years. Me viewing him like hes still a little boy. He feeling contempt for me as I continue to scold , berate, and criticize his life. Last night I realized that hes been destroying my life, and that I had no one to blame but myself. This is worse than breaking off a relationship with another adult. This situation carries a lot of guilt with it, and a lot of examining boundries. I recently made a new friend. We were talking about making plans to travel and visit each other. I realized that with my son in my house... I was a prisoner and that I certainly didnt deserve that bondage at this age. I did do my mothering job well. Those days are over. This isnt a little boy whose life is screwed up. This is a young man who is choosing a screwed up life. I put an end to the dysfunctional cycle. I am sticking to my guns. My loving, supportive way didnt work. He is going to have to sink or swim. I am going to have to live with whatever he chooses. Something to be ashamed of would be me enabling him to continue to live irresponsibly.. and making myself his whipping post. Give me strength to do the hard thing. Love to you all... Weeder

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:07 pm

Weeder honey...they call it tough love because it's tough on YOU!!. pursue your life as you deserve, and try like hell not to feel guilty. :yh_hugs :yh_flower i know, easier said than done.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:52 pm

You did the right thing Weeder. Don't be an enabler. Sounds like a drug problem on top of everything else and he may have to really hit bottom before he can turn it around and it's something he will have to do all by his self. In my view, a tough love approach is the only way with a 21 year old.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:02 am

Weeder, I read your post hours ago, and didn't know how to respond in a way that's "right." I've finally come to the conclusion that there is no "right" reply.

Parenthood, as you so well know, comes with the biggest burden of guilt anyone has ever felt. It's tearing at you, I'm sure. You want to help, and you want to do what's best for your son, and those two things conflict. You want to raise a self-sufficient man who is a provider for his own child and a productive member of society. You also know that handing him everything he needs on a platter is not in his best interest. Knowing that makes no difference whatsoever in the difficulty of your decision. But if he won't pursue success on his own and is content to sponge off you, forcing him out to make his own way IS your only solution, and one he will thank you for later in life. It's the waiting for that "Thanks Mom, you were right." that is the hardest. But when you hear it, you will know you did the best for him.

I wish you all the best and my thoughts are with you, hoping you are dealing with the guilt well enough to stand by your very correct actions.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:34 am

Letting him stay with you is only ENABLING him to keep on acting like a loser. Tough love is the way to go here, AND an intervention. There are out patient rehabs and make him understand, the only way he stays with you is AA and work. Keep pushing. He's your son and you love him but enabling him to keep this lifestyle will only hurt him and everyone else in the long run. I know its easier said than done, but you have to do it to save his life.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:13 am

weeder wrote: This isnt a little boy whose life is screwed up. This is a young man who is choosing a screwed up life. I put an end to the dysfunctional cycle. I am sticking to my guns. My loving, supportive way didnt work. He is going to have to sink or swim. I am going to have to live with whatever he chooses. Give me strength to do the hard thing

Give you strength? You already have it, Weeder! That was a tough, tough decision. Do you have any idea how many parents can't or won't make that decision? Let me put it this way...I have a whole school full of those kids.

You have my ultimate respect, and my empathy for your situation. Like BR said so well...(seems like we are always complimenting each other, eh, BR?)

"it's the waiting for the "You were right, mom." that's the hard part.":o

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:35 pm

weeder wrote: Thank You.. Thank You to all of you. Needless to say, I cried on and off at work all day today. When someone connected to you.. Husband or child exhibits horrific values.. you feel compelled to scream.. This is not the example that I set!!! I am hard working, and responsible and honest. I dont know how or why he became this way. I do know that I wouldnt put up with his kind of behavior from anyone

else. My relationship with him has gotten quite sick over the past few years. Me viewing him like hes still a little boy. He feeling contempt for me as I continue to scold , berate, and criticize his life. Last night I realized that hes been destroying my life, and that I had no one to blame but myself. This is worse than breaking off a relationship with another adult. This situation carries a lot of guilt with it, and a lot of examining boundries. I recently made a new friend. We were talking about making plans to travel and visit each other. I realized that with my son in my house... I was a prisoner and that I certainly didnt deserve that bondage at this age. I did do my mothering job well. Those days are over. This isnt a little boy whose life is screwed up. This is a young man who is choosing a screwed up life. I put an end to the dysfunctional cycle. I am sticking to my guns. My loving, supportive way didnt work. He is going to have to sink or swim. I am going to have to live with whatever he chooses. Something to be ashamed of would be me enabling him to continue to live irresponsibly.. and making myself his whipping post. Give me strength to do the hard thing. Love to you all... Weeder

Good job !

You listened to your gut.

Things will be fine. :-6

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:46 pm

Weeder I am proud of you. And like I have said if you need to lean on anyone... you know where to go. So often times us adults think we can live life for our kids which inturn makes them unable to live life for themselves. They need to live, grow and learn by their mistakes and us parents just have to let em go some times.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:05 pm

Thanks again to all of you. You are all correct. Thank God I am still sane enough to recognize right from wrong. Jives I know what your talking about.. with the parents who put up with this type situation. I knew it was wrong of me to allow it to continue. And LC you said some small thing that shed a tremendous amount of light on things. That Tough Love meant tough on ME. I never really saw it that way before. Not being willing to use tough love.. is me not being willing to handle the pain of doing the right thing. Thank You