I've just hung up on my undefined relationship

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:06 pm

I've just hung up on my undefined relationship. Maybe it's because things that were said were true, maybe I just don't see the big deal. The story goes pretty much like this.

On wednesday I will be moving to a three bedroom house, I'll have two house mates (using Koans words) my flopmate and a mutural friend.

Yesterday the man who I have been in an undefined relationship with for the past year starts getting arsey about it, it's not the first time, but it is the first time he's been nasty about it too.

Today, I have according to him, not thought about his feelings in this matter and he has always made it clear that he is not happy with me living with my ex. I seem to remember at some time ago that he's words were "our relationship can not move on while you still live with him", I ignored this comment on the grounds of it being emotional blackmail, and I'm not about to give into that, even more so seeing as everytime I ask for a definition of our relationship all I get is "a canoe" or something equally stupid.

I chose to get the house share with these two guys because it was easier for me, the cost is cut and I know who I will be living with as opposed to living with strangers. I'm now told it is because I am still reliant

When the flopmate came home and found me stupidly crying I told him why, he straight away said he would stay at the house for a while and then move out, we would be able to find a new house mate easy enough.

Am I really being silly holding my ground? I have strong feelings for the guy but, should I be (in my eyes) giving into him when he is unwilling to be in any more than a canoe?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:19 pm

Wow, letha. I'm glad I'm not in your predicament right now. But I was! Seems like there was a subject similar to this a while back. Here's my take: I had a very good friend for many years. He and I were a "couple" for a few months, and quickly realized that we make much better friends than anything else. We had been friends for about 12 years, and any boyfriend who came along that had a problem with my friendship with him could go pi$$ in a high wind. "Joe" is my friend, that's all, if you don't like it, that's YOUR problem. Now. My fiance met Joe, and at first had no problem. As time went on, however, he realized he DID have a problem with my spending time with Joe. "He's an old flame, he might want to try and rekindle things..." and so forth. It made him uncomfortable. My first reaction was to say "Hey, this is my pal, you can't tell me not to see him!!" But as I thought about it more, I realized that it wasn't fair to my fiance to discount his feelings. I understood where he was coming from, and have stopped seeing my friend. You have to determine what is most important. Your friendship, or your relationship. Is the current boyfriend the man you want to marry? Mine is. And in the interest of keeping the peace and standing by my man, the friendship had to take a back seat. However, if the current beau isn't someone worth dumping the friend over, by all means, stick to your guns. Does that help at all?

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:26 pm

Mr. Undefined has no right to give you such a hard time. It is one thing to not be thrilled, yet be supportive... but a whole other thing to make you feel badly and be nasty to you about it.

DO you love this guy? do you think there could be a real future with him? You need to examine your feelings about the relationship but for now, hold your ground and see if he comes round.

I am sorry you are going through such stress on top of the move.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:23 pm

This isn't so much about dumping my friend, it's more a question of having a roof over my head, as far as I am concerned anyway.

I'm a student nurse, living on a bursary, not entitled to loans (student or otherwise), can't get any benefits, can't do a part time job as now I'm in my final year I am working full time hours on placement.

He knows all this and can't except that I am better off where I am for the time being. I understand where he's coming from, but still over friends and love at the moment for the next year at least my education and career are what are important, and one thing I've learnt a man is NEVER coming in between me and my career again.

I am not ready to make a move that may cause us more problems, there's a lot more going on with the relationship than this and until that's sorted out I don't see it moving on... I have images of us being in this situation when we are both old and grey... It's commitment issues.

Der Wulf · Post by **Der Wulf** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:10 pm

letha wrote: I have images of us being in this situation when we are both old and grey... It's commitment issues.
Sounds to me like you have analysed it pretty well. If he can't give you a straight answer, he does'nt respect you, if he does'nt respect you, he does'nt love you.

Sounds like it's two moves you should be making.

:-6

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:47 pm

Letha, I don't have anything helpful that hasn't already been said, but I do send you loads of warm wishes.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:33 am

Do what you have to do... in order to get to where your going.. (being a nurse)

Dont let undefineds tantrums make you change your course. If he was defined hed be enabling you to pursue your goals. Sounds like power moves to me. Two scenarios up the road... 1.. Undefinded is gone.. Your a nurse making enough money to be proud and independant.. 2. Undefined is gone, your goals were jepordized.. maybe your not a nurse.. You can blame him. but so what? Try telling him where you want him to live, or what he should do... Ha!

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:25 am

letha wrote:

Today, I have according to him, not thought about his feelings in this matter and he has always made it clear that he is not happy with me living with my ex. I seem to remember at some time ago that he's words were "our relationship can not move on while you still live with him", I ignored this comment on the grounds of it being emotional blackmail, and I'm not about to give into that, even more so seeing as everytime I ask for a definition of our relationship all I get is "a canoe" or something equally stupid.

Hang on - if you're just living in a house with your ex., who is only a friend, how can your bf be trying to emotionally blackmailing you? He is quite likely to have naturally strong feelings about it! What would you feel if he still lived with an "ex" of his?

Now, if you want him to "define your relationship", whatever that means, perhaps it would be a good idea to listen to what he has to say on that matter - if you don't understand, then ask, try and not to get ratty about it, communication and understanding is very important - please don't just dismiss what he says as "stupid" - ask questions!

letha wrote: I chose to get the house share with these two guys because it was easier for me, the cost is cut and I know who I will be living with as opposed to living with strangers. I'm now told it is because I am still reliant

Perhaps it may look that way to him.... think about it from his perspective, if you can divorce that from your feelings...

letha wrote: When the flopmate came home and found me stupidly crying I told him why, he straight away said he would stay at the house for a while and then move out, we would be able to find a new house mate easy enough.

This "flopmate" is your "ex"? Then he's using his noddle. Well done. Now, perhaps you could accept this offer, and explain it to your bf? If you're "stupidly crying", then I guess you must feel some attraction and commitment to your bf.

letha wrote: Am I really being silly holding my ground? I have strong feelings for the guy but, should I be (in my eyes) giving into him when he is unwilling to be in any more than a canoe?

Find out what he means. The canoe may be taking you both up a broad and placid river in the midst of beautiful scenery, or towards heading white water rapids which will destroy it. Your hand is helping to steer it - if you don't steer anywhere, it will eventually just rot and sink without trace.

(apologies for waxing somewhat lyrical).

Talk. Talk talk. Ask, explain, question, talk. Some people find it hard to do, so go gently.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:52 am

It was talking in circles that got me to the yelling bit... Two stuborn people unwilling to bend. Seems the canoe was a misunderstanding, that I now can't stop laughing about.

The flopmate may very well move out, he might not be there much, or I might sort my money out and move myself.

I never said anything he has said is stupid (except for the canoe bit), it's just we were going round and round in circles. Guess I've not really made things clear though about the money situation, and he doesn't really understand the problems there are for me getting a place, being a student on a low income isn't the same as being unemployed or a single mum, or even a pregnant teenager. People have even said that I chose to put myself in the situation so they can't help.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:11 am

letha wrote: It was talking in circles that got me to the yelling bit... Two stuborn people unwilling to bend. Seems the canoe was a misunderstanding, that I now can't stop laughing about.

Good, well that's something! I won't ask... Two stiff people unwilling to bend... perhaps it's suspicion of the unknown!

letha wrote: The flopmate may very well move out, he might not be there much, or I might sort my money out and move myself.

Sounds to me as though the middle option = no change from your bf's POV. Can't your bf do something about accommodation, or loot?

letha wrote: I never said anything he has said is stupid (except for the canoe bit), it's just we were going round and round in circles. Guess I've not really made things clear though about the money situation, and he doesn't really understand the problems there are for me getting a place, being a student on a low income isn't the same as being unemployed or a single mum, or even a pregnant teenager.

Yes, money is easier for the latter groups. It's a reverse or what many people might think, and, IMO, most unfortunate.

letha wrote: People have even said that I chose to put myself in the situation so they can't help.

They can't, or won't help? (that is a rhetorical question).

Der Wulf · Post by **Der Wulf** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:08 pm

Let me add some perspective from my own experience. My wife is a nurse. If the training in the UK is similar to ours, it is very intensive and demanding. In our case, she took her training after we were married and had children.

Because we lived in a rural area, she had to move apprpx. 100 miles away to the school. We had a good friend to baby sit during the day while I worked, and I cared for them at night. Bath's, dinner, bedtime stories were ok, but diapers freaked me out, and laundry was an absolute pain.

The point is this, because this was important to her, It was important to me. I gave up my free time, sacrificed financially, temporarily became celebate, and tolerated all of the good natured jibes about becoming "Mr. mom". Do I regret it, absolutely not.

Besides the bebifit of getting closer to my kids, I got back a confident, and fulfilled women who has repaid my inconvience many times over. We've been married over 40 years, we were then, and are now, partners.

When I see abuse, divorce, family strife, and young people with consistant on/off or "undefined" relationships, I see one common factor. Lack of enough respect for their mate, and too much selfishness to form a caring partnership.

While our situations are different in time, place, and details, the basics are the same. You owe it to your self to demand more respect than you have described.

:-6

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:08 pm

Bill Sykes wrote: Can't your bf do something about accommodation, or loot?
If I ask or accept either from him, would that not be me becoming reliant on him?

That's half his argument.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:15 pm

Letha, is half his argument that he wants you reliant on him, or he doesn't want you reliant on him?

Obviously you don't want to be reliant on him, if there's commitment issues. Even if there's not, it sounds to me like you are trying to better yourself, and possibly he is threatened by that. (Which, of course, is stupid.) Can I ask what sort of ambition or goals he has for himself?

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:28 pm

He's at Uni as well doing a degree, thing is he's all sorted in his flat and has been for years, he's older. I wouldn't say he has issues about me being at Uni.

Half the argument is I am too reliant on others (meaning flopmate), which, would be proving him right if I then accepted anything from him.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:45 pm

Being reliant on someone and using a situation that benefits you both are two very different things. Does he offer any alternative solutions? It's very easy to stand by and point out what's wrong. It's a bit more difficult to offer a solution.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:12 pm

That's what I was saying about not understanding that as a student nurse I am in a big grey area.

Here if I was unemployed, an asylum seeker, a single mother or a pregnant teenager I would automatically get rehoused, benefits that helped pay the rent etc.

As a student nurse, I am seen to be neither a student or employed. Where other University students can get loans we can't because we are on a bursary from the NHS and our fees are also paid by the NHS. If I go to a loan company they tell me sorry no, you are a student.

I am on a low income, anyone else would be able to get state help with the rent, but no, I'm a student.

When I have tried to get help, the answer that has come is "you have put yourself in that position" this comes from benefit agencies.

Basicly summed up, I have to be a waste of space, not wanting to work to get any external help in this country.

That's the main reason I've taken the easy option. I also wouldn't want to move into "his" place, and he basicly said the same, it would be more difficult if things didn't work out.

I know there is an "if" in there, but I'm not willing to risk it in my final year.

Next year I'd be happy to move in, move abroad with him or anything.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:15 am

letha wrote: Half the argument is I am too reliant on others (meaning flopmate), which, would be proving him right if I then accepted anything from him.

!!! I think you may be trying to apply a little too much cold logic to a situation where bounds by definition need to be adjusted somewhat. I say somewhat - within acceptable limits, doing what you really don't want is insanely counterproductive, speaking from experience.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:21 am

letha wrote: That's the main reason I've taken the easy option. I also wouldn't want to move into "his" place, and he basicly said the same, it would be more difficult if things didn't work out.

I know there is an "if" in there, but I'm not willing to risk it in my final year.

Next year I'd be happy to move in, move abroad with him or anything.

Well, there you are. You need bumble along for a year, and then things will sort themselves out one way or another - however, you also need to take some sort of action to keep things going until then. It sounds to me, as a complete outsider, who has only the vaguest idea of half the story, that your accommodation arrangements need to be sorted out yesterday. Difficult.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:00 am

Thank you all for the answers, I'm not posting anymore at the moment, seems to have moved on to something else now, and to tell the truth I'm becoming emotionally drained with it now. If it's not one thing it's another, all my fault of course.

And I know everyones answer to that :yh_sigh

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:15 am

Good luck with it all.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:35 pm

Just a quick update here.... Nothing to do with another thread anywhere else of course :wah:

Thoughts haven't changed, situations haven't changed but, he comes round and I cook for him and he stays the night :-6

I really appreciate this from him and I understand what it means for him to be doing this considering his feelings on the whole situation

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:51 am

letha wrote: This isn't so much about dumping my friend, it's more a question of having a roof over my head, as far as I am concerned anyway.

I'm a student nurse, living on a bursary, not entitled to loans (student or otherwise), can't get any benefits, can't do a part time job as now I'm in my final year I am working full time hours on placement.

He knows all this and can't except that I am better off where I am for the time being. I understand where he's coming from, but still over friends and love at the moment for the next year at least my education and career are what are important, and one thing I've learnt a man is NEVER coming in between me and my career again.

I am not ready to make a move that may cause us more problems, there's a lot more going on with the relationship than this and until that's sorted out I don't see it moving on... I have images of us being in this situation when we are both old and grey... It's commitment issues.
atta girl! A.) you're on your own, having to take care of what best suits you.

B.) mr. canoe doesnt seem to be willing to do this for you.

You have alot on your plate, right now. You dont need a whinging, hand wringing BF who is so worried over territory, that he cant put your best interests on at least consideration mode. Flopmate is at least congenial enough to live with, AND is contributing to financial stability. If mr. canoe cant see his way through this, send him up the river minus a paddle. You've got bigger things to worry about. Like getting through your last year. You take care of your career and it will ALWAYS take care of you.

ps. just saw the update! LOL! Looks like he's closer to staking a claim! Hope it all goes well with you!