Hurting

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:14 am

I know from experience that its better to just drop off the earth.like your totally gone... than to toy with the object of your hurt. If you let them know how you really feel, or make yourself vulnerable.. it just feeds their egos. It also gives them the encouragement they need to hurt you more. A supposed life long friend, and the object of my deluded affection for 20 years.. put his foot up my a** about 6 years ago. I was so stunned, devastated, and hurt... that I went to him and bared my soul. ( I was out of controll) My behavior only inspired him to be more cruel. It took me years to understand that attempting to destroy me... made him feel better and better about himself. Great person to love, huh? It took me a very long time to recover from this relationship. Finally, if I saw him today... I wouldnt cry.. I would feel sick. Leave the loser alone.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:14 am

AussiePam wrote: Geesch Theia... What a clueless bloody loser that ex bloke of yours must be. Lemme go get my trusty longbow and a very blunt arrow and we'll go impale his drongo rear end. In fact let's also cast upon him the ultimate aussie cuss. May his chooks turn into emus and kick his dunny down!! (Preferably with him in it)

Now that sounds like a splendid idea

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:47 am

For you Theia!

What you need now is Positive thinking. You are a lovely person, fun to be with and great looking!

Build yourself up and come back stronger, get some confidence, theres nothing more sexy than a confident woman.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:49 am

weeder wrote: I know from experience that its better to just drop off the earth.like your totally gone... than to toy with the object of your hurt. If you let them know how you really feel, or make yourself vulnerable.. it just feeds their egos. It also gives them the encouragement they need to hurt you more. A supposed life long friend, and the object of my deluded affection for 20 years.. put his foot up my a** about 6 years ago. I was so stunned, devastated, and hurt... that I went to him and bared my soul. ( I was out of controll) My behavior only inspired him to be more cruel. It took me years to understand that attempting to destroy me... made him feel better and better about himself. Great person to love, huh? It took me a very long time to recover from this relationship. Finally, if I saw him today... I wouldnt cry.. I would feel sick. Leave the loser alone.

Actually Weeder, that's exactly it. And I know more now because a similar thing happened to me 12 years ago (once bitten doesn't seem to apply here). These people are incredibly insecure and they need to find someone whose insecurities are equal to if not more numerous than their own, to feed their egos.

They are charming, wonderful, caring, and such lovely people when you first meet them. And they promise you the earth and you get drawn in and thoroughly hooked. Then the worm turns. It has to. Then they start to dismantle you, step by step. It's not that noticeable at first and, well, you think that you must be at fault because they are so lovely. And then it gets more intense. And as you become more depleted and more destroyed, they become more confident and more critical. They are like leeches feeding off you. But whenever you try to get out they turn on the old charm again and again you're hooked. You could almost forgive them anything; they've apologised for being so awful to you and lo and behold here's that wonderful person again that you thought you'd lost.

No 1 bus followed that same pattern. I'm not going to repeat everything he said about me but I'll tell you that I was believing an awful lot of it because it's so cleverly and insidiously done.

But of course none of this could happen without the "victim" and it begs the question why anyone should want to stay with a person like that. In my case I think it's because my levels of self esteem have never been high and I'm so delighted when someone really appears to love me deeply. And because I don't like myself very much, I tend to believe the worst things about me. So "no 1 bus" and his criticism of me reinforced my own inner critic.

Hopefully I've at last learnt my lesson...it doesn't feel easy at all but what I have to do is to start taking care of myself, loving myself and being gentle with myself. I'm getting nowhere with it at present because I'm hurting so much but it's a lesson I have to learn otherwise I shall keep repeating the same pattern myself.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:39 am

Theia.. I cant believe the way you described it. Exactly the way it is. I have been so fortunate, My whole life I have been surrounded by friends and family who tell me." You are so beautiful and creative, and smart." Unfortunately, I dont believe it. Have never believed it. I think fighting low self esteem is the worst curse ever put on women. The leech thing? They suck the life right out of you. They are drawn to you because of the many qualities you have.. that they admire. Then they begin to resent you for having them. The crazy thing is that we want to share everything we have. The only answer is to find a male who is secure enough not to be de masculinated by a confident,attractive secure female. These men are very difficult to come across. I personally feel that they were made into the narcissistic humans they become... because of their mothers. And in my humble opinion we girls are a reflection of the relationships we had with our fathers. To me the truth is that in this world.. no matter how far we think we come.... most men consider women to be second class citizens. Or they strive to "keep them in their place" Another handicap is that in the 70s we were enlightened to believe that men and women could be equals. It is a good thing. Even if women like you and me wind up remaining single and sharing the love and encouragement we have to give with a wide range of people. Not just one. Shirley McClaine ( shes so cute) was asked recently.. " Is there a man in your life now? "No, she replied. " I discovered that the price is too great. Compromise, and accountability. Im not willing to go there. Life is too short. Embracing that concept... thinking about what that means to you.. to all of us, should help you recover quicker. Think about it... give up who you are.. all the things you want to do.. compromise your pride, values, self esteem, and freedom? To be with a troubled disfunctional ignoramus? No Way! Not at this stage in life. We know too much... Why do you think men dump their wives and go off with younger women?

Contrary to what we always think.... it isnt sex! It is looking for someone naive enough to still think all of life is living your life to make someone else happy. Big Babys!! WHEW! You got me going. That felt great! Now Im off to work and Ill try to remember everything I told you when I wish for a pair of hairy arms to hug me. Ill have to think.... " Who are those arms attached to? Would I spend 5 minutes with this person if he wasnt male?

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:27 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I wish we could all get together to discuss this in person.:-4

Theia, I woke up thinking about this, and I'm still pretty upset about this jerk treating you so badly. Its not just false bravado, I really would like to do something to help you. If you'd like me to call this guy and give him a piece of my mind, I'll gladly do it for you.

So do I, Snooze. I'm in complete agreement with Weeder when she says that fighting low self esteem is a curse for women. Although I imagine it can be a curse for some men too. Weeder's post has sparked more that I want to say but I need to think about it first.

I know it isn't false bravado, Snooze. And I appreciate what you're offering. It makes me feel good to think that someone would offer that. I sort of wish (and perhaps don't wish too) that he had replied to my finishing email because I had it all worked out what I would say in response. As it is, I have to keep saying it aloud to my cat and he's beginning to give me strange looks! I think the poor soul is wondering why he's suddenly become a deceiver and a liar with no integrity whatsoever. Poor Fergus. I'll have to explain to him.

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:45 am

SnoozeControl wrote: Here's a silly cat story...

When I woke up this morning, I saw my "toy" and took the vibrating part of it and draped it over the side of my cat's bed. When I turned it on, it started vibrating like mad and she went absolutely spastic and nearly landed on my head when she frantically ran away.

It doesn't really translate well to type, but I got a good laugh out of it.

Have you ever thought of being more open about things? :wah:

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:58 am

I have to keep saying it aloud to my cat and he's beginning to give me strange looks! I think the poor soul is wondering why he's suddenly become a deceiver and a liar with no integrity whatsoever. Poor Fergus. I'll have to explain to him.

:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl LOL.

Stick with us, Theia, you're doing just fine.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:06 am

Sending you best wishes, it obviously sounds like it's his loss anyway!:)

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:35 am

He, and his ilk, live in a fog of self-deception. His own self-esteem is likely far lower than your own, but it's not 'manly' to show it. 'Real men' are tough strong, benevolent, etc etc.

The best way to fee better about oneself is to find someone worse off, and who could possibly be worse off than him? Well, someone who would find him attractive, of course. She must be truly pitiful, so he can feel like the big man by lifting her up. So he compliments her, treats her like a lady (whether she deserves it or not), lavishes her with praise. She beams. She smiles. She appreciates him! He feels better about himself - for awhile.

Refrain:

But he knows he doesn't deserve the adoration. Remember, he holds himself in very low regard, deep inside. He begins to resent her kindness, knowing it is based on a lie. How could she be so stupid as to look up to him? How could she be so naive? Feelings of contempt emerge. He starts pointing out her flaws to show her she shouldn't feel so haughty. After all, she's with him, right? It's so easy to hurt her. Mere words have such an effect. Look how week and vulnerable she is. He feels the power surge through his veins like a drug. He pushes more and more because he likes the feeling. Until he pushes too far, and she threatens to leave.

This is the point when he is most honest with himself. He sees how cruel he has been. Cruel people are low, beneath contempt, which is right where he fits in. He knows he doesn't deserve her, but he needs her. If she leaves he will be all alone. If she leaves, all the whispers he's been denying will show themselves to be right. He's gripped with a cold fear. He must keep her at all costs. Beg - grovel - promise never to act that way again. Anything so that she won't leave. She decides to give him another chance.

(Refrain)

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:20 am

weeder wrote: Theia.. I cant believe the way you described it. Exactly the way it is. I have been so fortunate, My whole life I have been surrounded by friends and family who tell me." You are so beautiful and creative, and smart." Unfortunately, I dont believe it. Have never believed it. I think fighting low self esteem is the worst curse ever put on women. The leech thing? They suck the life right out of you. They are drawn to you because of the many qualities you have.. that they admire. Then they begin to resent you for having them. The crazy thing is that we want to share everything we have. The only answer is to find a male who is secure enough not to be de masculinated by a confident,attractive secure female. These men are very difficult to come across. I personally feel that they were made into the narcissistic humans they become... because of their mothers. And in my humble opinion we girls are a reflection of the relationships we had with our fathers. To me the truth is that in this world.. no matter how far we think we come.... most men consider women to be second class citizens. Or they strive to "keep them in their place" Another handicap is that in the 70s we were enlightened to believe that men and women could be equals. It is a good thing. Even if women like you and me wind up remaining single and sharing the love and encouragement we have to give with a wide range of people. Not just one. Shirley McClaine ( shes so cute) was asked recently.. " Is there a man in your life now? "No, she replied. " I discovered that the price is too great. Compromise, and accountability. Im not willing to go there. Life is too short. Embracing that concept... thinking about what that means to you.. to all of us, should help you recover quicker. Think about it... give up who you are.. all the things you want to do.. compromise your pride, values, self esteem, and freedom? To be with a troubled disfunctional ignoramus? No Way! Not at this stage in life. We know too much... Why do you think men dump their wives and go off with younger women?

Contrary to what we always think.... it isnt sex! It is looking for someone naive enough to still think all of life is living your life to make someone else happy. Big Babys!! WHEW! You got me going. That felt great! Now Im off to work and Ill try to remember everything I told you when I wish for a pair of hairy arms to hug me. Ill have to think.... " Who are those arms attached to? Would I spend 5 minutes with this person if he wasnt male?

I wonder what the answer is Weeder? Could it be positive self talk? Those of us with low self esteem must have learnt it from somewhere at some time, maybe slowly over a long period. Maybe we need to gradually "reprogramme" ourselves to build our confidence and our self value? Because surely anyone with high levels of self esteem would not get involved with the likes of these people and if they did they would soon make a hasty exit. Someone said to me last night that they would have been off like a shot if their partner had told them he was embarrassed to be seen with them. I was terribly hurt but I "stayed." And, anyway, would these people choose someone who felt good about themselves, in the first place? I suppose what I'm saying is that it's down to those whose self esteem is low to try to change it; otherwise isn't there the distinct possibility that s/he will keep falling into similar, destructive relationships?

They not only resent your qualities, weeder, they try to destroy them. No 1b used to tell me what a ridiculous but enchanting sense of humour I had when we first started to communicate. We would send each other silly but amusing mails. After one such mail, I received a reply from him completely trashing what I had said and telling me I was shallow. It came from right out of the blue and really shocked me. And however much I told myself that his opinion meant nothing and other people had liked my humour, I lost confidence.

Actually Weeder, I have a challenge on my hands. I would like another relationship but if I don't change the way I see myself, I know I shall end up with another 1b. They will seek me out and I think, in a way, I seek them out. These people usually have to be extra exciting and charming and alive at the beginning to be able to attract you. And it's hard to resist. I think I knew deep down that 1b was going to be like my last partner, sadly. But in I charged and now I'm paying the price, again. I have to change me, for me.

I hadn't heard that theory about why some men choose younger women...that's interesting.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:24 am

theia wrote: [...]

Actually Weeder, I have a challenge on my hands. I would like another relationship but if I don't change the way I see myself, I know I shall end up with another 1b. They will seek me out and I think, in a way, I seek them out. These people usually have to be extra exciting and charming and alive at the beginning to be able to attract you. And it's hard to resist. I think I knew deep down that 1b was going to be like my last partner, sadly. But in I charged and now I'm paying the price, again. I have to change me, for me.

I hadn't heard that theory about why some men choose younger women...that's interesting.
Strange isn't it? You'll have to approach love with a cold eye, if it's to be successful. Ironic.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:35 am

Accountable wrote: He, and his ilk, live in a fog of self-deception. His own self-esteem is likely far lower than your own, but it's not 'manly' to show it. 'Real men' are tough strong, benevolent, etc etc.

The best way to fee better about oneself is to find someone worse off, and who could possibly be worse off than him? Well, someone who would find him attractive, of course. She must be truly pitiful, so he can feel like the big man by lifting her up. So he compliments her, treats her like a lady (whether she deserves it or not), lavishes her with praise. She beams. She smiles. She appreciates him! He feels better about himself - for awhile.

Refrain:

But he knows he doesn't deserve the adoration. Remember, he holds himself in very low regard, deep inside. He begins to resent her kindness, knowing it is based on a lie. How could she be so stupid as to look up to him? How could she be so naive? Feelings of contempt emerge. He starts pointing out her flaws to show her she shouldn't feel so haughty. After all, she's with him, right? It's so easy to hurt her. Mere words have such an effect. Look how week and vulnerable she is. He feels the power surge through his veins like a drug. He pushes more and more because he likes the feeling. Until he pushes too far, and she threatens to leave.

This is the point when he is most honest with himself. He sees how cruel he has been. Cruel people are low, beneath contempt, which is right where he fits in. He knows he doesn't deserve her, but he needs her. If she leaves he will be all alone. If she leaves, all the whispers he's been denying will show themselves to be right. He's gripped with a cold fear. He must keep her at all costs. Beg - grovel - promise never to act that way again. Anything so that she won't leave. She decides to give him another chance.

(Refrain)

Frighteningly Acc, I recognise that scenario. 1b was very much of the opinion that "men should be men" and should not show too much feeling or compassion etc. etc.

And after the American fiasco, I just wanted to cut off completely when I left but it was him who sent me a mail full of apologies and contrition. And I once again saw the man I had fallen for in the beginning. I began to hope that he might well love me eventually. So I spent nearly another 3 months, hoping, only to end up in the situation I'm in now. I know I finished it but he was dishonest with me about another woman.

And sod it, it's still hurting :-5

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:40 am

Accountable wrote: Strange isn't it? You'll have to approach love with a cold eye, if it's to be successful. Ironic.

Or maybe, Acc, if I'm so brimming over with self esteem, :-3 I'll only attract and be attracted to the nicer ones...and no, that wasn't a pig you saw overhead, I'm going to do it!

hopefully

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:44 am

I recommend you do a clinical analysis of Theia. Look at her from a third person point of view. List the positives and negatives based on behavior and accomplishments, not emotion because others can't see your emotions except through your behavior.

When you study the lists, you will have a better idea of yourself realistically. It should give you a baseline to start building your esteem.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:45 am

Could it be positive self talk? Those of us with low self esteem must have learnt it from somewhere at some time, maybe slowly over a long period. Maybe we need to gradually "reprogramme" ourselves to build our confidence and our self value?

Here, Theia, you have hit the nail right on the head. The first and most important person you must learn to love is yourself. Although you may lay down your life for another, you cannot love anyone more than you love yourself. It is simply impossible.

You, by yourself are as complete and whole as you need to be. When two people come together in love, the union should be complementary, mutual, and beneficial, and above all, it should add to the sense of oneself. It should be equally possible to still feel whole when apart, yet feel a strong sense of the union of love as this transcends space and time.

Neither are you any less than anyone else upon this planet. Just look at all the good things everyone has said about you in these posts. All these things were spoken from their hearts. Take all that in and believe it because they would not say these things if it were not true.

Yes, rebuild yourself. Believe in yourself. The change in your attitude towards yourself will attract a better partner. One more able to fulfill you as well as be fulfilled.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:02 am

Accountable wrote: I recommend you do a clinical analysis of Theia. Look at her from a third person point of view. List the positives and negatives based on behavior and accomplishments, not emotion because others can't see your emotions except through your behavior.

When you study the lists, you will have a better idea of yourself realistically. It should give you a baseline to start building your esteem.

That'll be easy Acc because she's not me :wah: Sorry, just hysterical giggling to give me some respite from the chronic pit in my tummy...

Seriously, thank you, I shall try that. I could do with a project to redirect my thoughts.. and it's good to be able to base it on specifics like behaviour and accomplishments. It focuses it better.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:11 am

OpenMind wrote: Here, Theia, you have hit the nail right on the head. The first and most important person you must learn to love is yourself. Although you may lay down your life for another, you cannot love anyone more than you love yourself. It is simply impossible.

You, by yourself are as complete and whole as you need to be. When two people come together in love, the union should be complementary, mutual, and beneficial, and above all, it should add to the sense of oneself. It should be equally possible to still feel whole when apart, yet feel a strong sense of the union of love as this transcends space and time.

Neither are you any less than anyone else upon this planet. Just look at all the good things everyone has said about you in these posts. All these things were spoken from their hearts. Take all that in and believe it because they would not say these things if it were not true.

Yes, rebuild yourself. Believe in yourself. The change in your attitude towards yourself will attract a better partner. One more able to fulfill you as well as be fulfilled.

Do you know OM, I wrote the very words "start to love you" in my journal in 1984...and look 20 years on and I still haven't done it. It's small wonder that the gods decided to offer me those last two partners...a not so gentle reminder.

I know that my last relationship was full of my needs that I should have looked to fulfil myself. It made me realise that I've always hoped that someone else would meet them. So that wasn't at all healthy and it certainly wasn't complementary.

I have seriously got to do something about the way I treat myself. Thank you for the gentle reminder :-6

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:13 am

theia wrote: ..there's a poem I read some years ago that includes a line something like...I can't forgive you for not being who I thought you were...and I suppose that says it all...in my mind he was someone different to the person he is.It's not easy, Theia. It's been a good thread but it's a lot of heartache. I never found sympathy all that helpful, but knowing there's a lot of real friends out there would be.

This might be your poem: Wendy Cope, "Defining the Problem".

I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t forgive you. Even if I could

You wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t pardon me for seeing through you.

And yet I cannot cure myself of love

For what I thought you were before I knew you.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:25 am

spot wrote: It's not easy, Theia. It's been a good thread but it's a lot of heartache. I never found sympathy all that helpful, but knowing there's a lot of real friends out there would be.

This might be your poem: Wendy Cope, "Defining the Problem".

That's it, Spot, thank you. I looked for it a couple of years ago and couldn't find it then either so that's probably why I misquoted...

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:41 am

OpenMind wrote: Here, Theia, you have hit the nail right on the head. The first and most important person you must learn to love is yourself. Although you may lay down your life for another, you cannot love anyone more than you love yourself. It is simply impossible.

You, by yourself are as complete and whole as you need to be. When two people come together in love, the union should be complementary, mutual, and beneficial, and above all, it should add to the sense of oneself. It should be equally possible to still feel whole when apart, yet feel a strong sense of the union of love as this transcends space and time.

Neither are you any less than anyone else upon this planet. Just look at all the good things everyone has said about you in these posts. All these things were spoken from their hearts. Take all that in and believe it because they would not say these things if it were not true.

Yes, rebuild yourself. Believe in yourself. The change in your attitude towards yourself will attract a better partner. One more able to fulfill you as well as be fulfilled.

Women find it difficult to love themselves...it 'smacks' of selfishness and is therefore not acceptable....this can be driven in to us by men (the wrong kind I hasten to add). I have suffered this all my love and have only recently at the age of 58ish faced up to the fact that I'm a person that deserves happiness as much as the people i have heaped love and attention on all my life. I still have moments of self doubt...but I'm getting there and so will you Theia.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:02 pm

Ok Theia.. this is what it is. Its a little complicated, but take it from someone who has overcome a multitude of obstacles in life... but has been a complete failure in the arena of man woman relationships. Ill have to ask you a few questions, and Ill have to reveal a few of the humiliating treatments Ive put up with.

We pick men who are beneath us.. because we think that they will be so thrilled to have someone of our calibur.. that they will treat us wonderfully. It is also easier for us. We are so much better than who we choose that we can be very at ease. It doesnt work. They begin to feel like crap when they are with us, because we outshine them in every area. Did you ever hear women say.. " I cant believe that ugly or fat or stupid woman hes seeing now? Well, when hes with her, he feels like a million bucks. He feels like a knight in shining armour.

I cant respond to your saying that this relationship will be your last, unless I know how old you are. I knew pretty much that the one I described to you would probably be my last. Because I am 54. And it does seem to be working out that way. I changed my entire life to be with this man.

Left New York City, to live in rural Virginia

Left my friends and employment connections.

Started a landscape business with a rake, and a box of plastic bags.

Worked 6 and 7 days a week... He enjoyed living off my income.

The business flourished. With each new client I acquired, he began to hate me more.

As I made new friends in this totally new and strange area... he hated everyone I invited home. If I made a date with another female.. he accused us of being gay.

He wouldnt introduce me to anyone he knew.

Wouldnt walk my dog when I was at work.. so I had to get rid of the dog.

I gained 25 pounds while I was with him. He said I looked great.

I wrote his resumees... sent out his letters of inquiry.

When he was given a report to do for work.... I compiled the information, and did the reports.

When finally, I helped him get a great job. ( he used my little company as his reference) he went down to that new job, and lined up his next victim.

Only, I guess she isnt a victim..... because she needs him. And that makes him feel like a king.

My motto has always been.... I dont love you, because I need you. I need you because I love you. He didnt get it....will never get it... doesnt want it that way.

But despite having loved and lost... a few times. I still feel that way. Its who I am.

I have a feeling it might be who you are too.

So, this isnt a negative narrative. It is one filled with hope. That there is someone out there who will compliment you, be proud of you, emmotionally bond with you.

Someone who would never even think of saying anything to hurt you.... because to hurt you, would hurt him too. You owe it to yourself not to accept anything less.

As youve been told (Im certain) many times before... youll never find the right one to give your love to.. until you love yourself... The most effective way to begin to love yourself.. is to spend an extended period of time alone, with only yourself.

Please yourself. Laugh at your own sense of humor. Do what you want to do, when you want to do it, with who you want to do it with. You will discover such freedom that you will never be willing to sell yourself short again. I promise.

With Love, Weeder

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:44 pm

Weeder. Words of wisdom (and from one so young, too).

What you say works the other way round also. A lot of relationships are based upon this foundation and it may be either the man or the woman who is providing the glorification (or whatever you want to call it) for the other.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:49 pm

Sigh. Human relationships are so complicated. Sometimes I think it would be nice just to be a Rock or and Island, like in the Simon and Garfunkel song... on the other hand... sigh...

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:09 pm

OpenMind wrote: Weeder. Words of wisdom (and from one so young, too).

What you say works the other way round also. A lot of relationships are based upon this foundation and it may be either the man or the woman who is providing the glorification (or whatever you want to call it) for the other.
Open Mind... You are absolutely correct. In this case we are ministering to the confused and wounded ego of a female. Many men have found themselves in exactly the same debilitating scenario. Women like myself, and many of the other

strong women who seem to be present in this garden ,would actually find it difficult to acknowledge the existence of the female version of the male we describe. I would pretty much venture to say..... she would not be a profile included in our list of friends.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:09 pm

Theia, I'm so sorry your hurting so..!! I would like to kick this fool into next week just for drill..!!

Sweetie know this its not you, it's him that has the problem...!! Don't for one minute blame yourself for this relationship mistake. Your a warm, kind, beautiful women who was able to feel love even if it wasn't to be. He sounds like a real jerk to me anyway so to hell with him..!!

He is a fool to have let you go, and a how dare he hurt you so. LC, SNOOZE, BR, AND I will take care of this good for nothin ...!! just give me the word we will make his life miserable..

Your heart will find love again...!! why because your a loveable person, and there is love for you, you just wait ...!! It will happen when you least expect it..:-4

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:12 pm

Anyone want to borrow my little voodoo dolly?

Seriously though, when any relationship really really ends whether it's a friendship or a romance or a marriage and you've done the grieving, there comes a time to put it behind you and make a fresh start. One thing I found which helped was to write down all your feelings, all the bitterness, all the regrets, everything. Take your time, and collect the letters, the photos, those things you tend to cling to, then get a big bonfire prepared, pour yourself a glass of wine, burn everything, tossing your thoughts on the fire too, dance a bit, offer up the past to the flames. Reaffirm that you are no longer limited by those past events. Rake over the ashes.

Then go and have a shower. Wash yourself completely - like you're cleansing away the past. Believe me - this works. It helps too to change some of the habit patterns associated with the person. This was 'our song', 'our place' - make a different song.. Go to different places................ Celebrate the goddess in you and your new freedom. Yesterday is past. Today you're free. Tomorrow who knows what amazing possibilities will come......................

Incipit vita nova - as Dante wrote

Here begins the new life

theia · Post by **theia** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:13 pm

Well, it's 8 o' clock Sunday evening here and I've just got through a difficult weekend...but it would have been so much harder without all of my friends at FG. You probably have no idea what your posts, pms and 'phone calls meant to me. They were all different, some made me cry, some made me laugh, some made me think, they all gave me hope. There is an incredible spirit here at the forum. I can't name it but it's unique, as are all of you...I am so fortunate to know you all, thank you .

Jackie

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:08 pm

This forum just wouldn't be the same without you, Jackie. We couldn't be letting that happen now, could we?:-6

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:37 am

theia wrote: I wonder what the answer is Weeder? Could it be positive self talk? Those of us with low self esteem must have learnt it from somewhere at some time, maybe slowly over a long period. Maybe we need to gradually "reprogramme" ourselves to build our confidence and our self value? Because surely anyone with high levels of self esteem would not get involved with the likes of these people and if they did they would soon make a hasty exit. Someone said to me last night that they would have been off like a shot if their partner had told them he was embarrassed to be seen with them. I was terribly hurt but I "stayed." And, anyway, would these people choose someone who felt good about themselves, in the first place? I suppose what I'm saying is that it's down to those whose self esteem is low to try to change it; otherwise isn't there the distinct possibility that s/he will keep falling into similar, destructive relationships?

They not only resent your qualities, weeder, they try to destroy them. No 1b used to tell me what a ridiculous but enchanting sense of humour I had when we first started to communicate. We would send each other silly but amusing mails. After one such mail, I received a reply from him completely trashing what I had said and telling me I was shallow. It came from right out of the blue and really shocked me. And however much I told myself that his opinion meant nothing and other people had liked my humour, I lost confidence.

Actually Weeder, I have a challenge on my hands. I would like another relationship but if I don't change the way I see myself, I know I shall end up with another 1b. They will seek me out and I think, in a way, I seek them out. These people usually have to be extra exciting and charming and alive at the beginning to be able to attract you. And it's hard to resist. I think I knew deep down that 1b was going to be like my last partner, sadly. But in I charged and now I'm paying the price, again. I have to change me, for me.

I hadn't heard that theory about why some men choose younger women...that's interesting.
Why do you feel you need to change at all? Whats so wrong with the way you are? Theia, you're a lovely woman! Your children obviously adore you! Do dogs go out of their way to snarl and bite at you? LOL!! No!! Then why worry about changing? Trust me, I'm a nurse. You have been victimised just as surely as a rape victim. They have a similar attitude about themselves afterwards. They actually feel GUILTY!! Pisses me right off! You have done nothing wrong. You dont have to prove your worth. You just simply entrusted your heart to someone who was unworthy of it. Fair enough. We have all done that. I've kissed my fair share of frogs too! If you ever have doubts, look to the faces of your children. And your grandchildren. You did good girl! They wouldnt be who they are, if you werent who YOU are! But alas us medical types fall under the category of co-dependants. We dont feel useful unless we're needed. So we are easily victimised. Mostly by ego maniacs that need to justify their ego's at the expense of ours! I broke that chain darling, and you can too!

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:53 am

Raven wrote: Why do you feel you need to change at all? Whats so wrong with the way you are? Theia, you're a lovely woman! Your children obviously adore you! Do dogs go out of their way to snarl and bite at you? LOL!! No!! Then why worry about changing? Trust me, I'm a nurse. You have been victimised just as surely as a rape victim. They have a similar attitude about themselves afterwards. They actually feel GUILTY!! Pisses me right off! You have done nothing wrong. You dont have to prove your worth. You just simply entrusted your heart to someone who was unworthy of it. Fair enough. We have all done that. I've kissed my fair share of frogs too! If you ever have doubts, look to the faces of your children. And your grandchildren. You did good girl! They wouldnt be who they are, if you werent who YOU are! But alas us medical types fall under the category of co-dependants. We dont feel useful unless we're needed. So we are easily victimised. Mostly by ego maniacs that need to justify their ego's at the expense of ours! I broke that chain darling, and you can too!

Thank you, Raven. That makes so much sense. I didn't want to tell my daughter everything he had said about me, but one day she 'phoned just after he'd told me he was embarrassed to be seen with me; I broke down on the 'phone to her. She was gutted because this was her mum he was talking about. I feel I owe it to her and to me never to get into that sort of relationship again. I shall break that chain.

Do you know, I really can't wait to meet you in May? :-6

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:10 am

I cant wait either! I'm so excited! And nervous! LOL!! An american making tea for the ENGLISH!! Have you ever heard of such a thing! oh dear........

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:17 am

Raven wrote: I cant wait either! I'm so excited! And nervous! LOL!! An american making tea for the ENGLISH!! Have you ever heard of such a thing! oh dear........

No I haven't, Raven, but it'll be so lovely, I know.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:34 am

This is going to be SUCH fun! :-4

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:44 am

Raven wrote: I cant wait either! I'm so excited! And nervous! LOL!! An american making tea for the ENGLISH!! Have you ever heard of such a thing! oh dear........

Ah, but I have heard that this American knows her tea.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:55 am

How did your 1st day back at work go Theia?

Hope it went smoothly for you x

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:23 pm

abbey wrote: How did your 1st day back at work go Theia?

Hope it went smoothly for you x

It went really well, thank you, Abbey. I'm only working part time at present, for a week or two. My deputy and another person, who is working a New Deal placement and whom I hadn't met, were so lovely. I couldn't have asked for better.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:27 pm

OpenMind wrote: Ah, but I have heard that this American knows her tea.

LOL!! First thing my very british husband taught me! Well maybe not the VERY first, but it's up there! :p

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:52 pm

Stone the bloody crows - tea is a very interesting phenomenon. As an fair dinkum, true blue aussie wed to an Englishman, I really did try very hard to learn to drink the brew, with only limited success. As for actually making tea - my efforts were declined in very very polite British mode from early on.

The surprisingly untroubled offspring of this morganatic union seem to have reverted - offered all the benefits of real coffee, they amazingly choose tea. Offered sunny beaches, perfect weather and kangaroos hopping around - two out of three choose to live in London. Go figger!!!

PS Great on your first day back, Theia!! Way to go, Girl !!!

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:01 pm

Glad you had a good first day back Theia!

Stay strong. :-4

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:14 pm

[quote=BabyRider]Oooh...we have a way to annoy this dufus?? We know where he hangs out? You know me, I'm all for being an annoyance. If I could get paid to get on people's nerves, I'd do it in a heartbeat!! It's therapeutic.

We are one.

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:24 pm

Thanks Betty (is that lift still on? It must be because you need me to navigate...why am I laughing at the thought of me navigating? Possibly because, on my Omaha flight, I couldn't believe that we had to fly over Ireland to get to America. I thought we were going the wrong way)

Nomad, there is something I could post about no1b that would really be getting my own back. I won't do it but the thought that I could makes me feel so much better!

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:21 pm

theia wrote: Thanks Betty (is that lift still on? It must be because you need me to navigate...why am I laughing at the thought of me navigating? Possibly because, on my Omaha flight, I couldn't believe that we had to fly over Ireland to get to America. I thought we were going the wrong way)

Uh oh, now I'm worried!!

I can see the headlines now,

Sunday May 7th

Cornish girls, Betty and Theia left Cornwall on Friday 5th March for a weekend in the big city. Both girls families are in a heightened state of anxiety, they were last spotted in Port Issac when they stopped to ask for directions from a local. :wah:

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:31 pm

Betty Boop wrote: Uh oh, now I'm worried!!

I can see the headlines now,

Sunday May 7th

Cornish girls, Betty and Theia left Cornwall on Friday 5th March for a weekend in the big city. Both girls families are in a heightened state of anxiety, they were last spotted in Port Issac when they stopped to ask for directions from a local. :wah:

Police say that a witness who earlier saw the pair arguing in the car, just outside Dublin, felt concerned to see the older of the two women (by a year or two) storm out of the vehicle shouting "I told you, Betty, to turn right in Scotland"

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:40 pm

theia wrote: Police say that a witness who earlier saw the pair arguing in the car, just outside Dublin, felt concerned to see the older of the two women (by a year or two) storm out of the vehicle shouting "I told you, Betty, to turn right in Scotland"

Dublin!!

Are we picking up Jennyswan on the way?? lol

Don't tell me to turn right. Thats what you do when you're lost, keep turning right! :-3

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:41 pm

Your right Raven about co dependants, and care takers. I am a co dependant also. Which reminds me.. The book Co Dependant No more. By Melody Beady, is excellent. It was my bible twenty years ago. Helped get me out of my marriage to my alcoholic husband. All co dependants should read it.. I wish I was going to the Forum meeting in England.

And what is that weird quote in Abbeys box????

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:42 pm

i'll PM you Weeder.

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:44 pm

Betty Boop wrote: Dublin!!

Are we picking up Jennyswan on the way?? lol

Don't tell me to turn right. Thats what you do when you're lost, keep turning right! :-3

So all I can say to you, en route, is "turn left?" What about when we have to turn right? Well I hope the other members of the FG contingency are reading this because they'll know who to blame when we're 3 weeks late. And it won't be me, oh no...