On Race - Keep Dreaming.

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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

Jives wrote: The Journey of Man. A Genetic Odyssey by Spencer Wells...



Spencer Wells just proved conclusively that all mankind is a single species and that we are all genetically related. So much for racisim.
We may all be genetically related, whatever, that's fine, but that does not detract in the least from the fact that the blacks IN MY AREA do everything in their power to separate themselves. From their clothes, to their music, to the way they walk and talk. They are guilty of segregation now. They want nothing to do with any but their own kind and frankly, that's fine with me. The only time they venture into my neck of the woods is to steal a car.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




Jives
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Post by Jives »

Oh I know what you're talking about, BR. Those are the ones that do everything they can to fit into a negative stereotype, then complain that "everyone's out to get me."

Bill Cosby really put them in their place when he said,



"These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers, for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics?'" He continued, "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't, 'Where you is...' And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

The self-appointed black leadership makes hay over the tragic cycle of police shootings. Cosby, however, laid the blame at the criminals' feet, noting, "These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake. And then we run out and we are outraged, saying, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

But why are black comedians the ones addressing problems such as the lack of parenting (or the outright lack of parents) and not black policymakers? An outraged Kweisi Mfume, the president of the NAACP, felt compelled to get up and counter Cosby's words with excuses that night. Mfume's action exposes a stunning lack of leadership.

The Congressional Black Caucus lists 24 "priorities" on its website. Not one mentions strong black families, healthy black homes or even responsible parenting. Conversely, responsibility is a staple of Chris Rock's comedy. Rock quotes "low-expectation-having" people bragging, "I take care of my kids." Rock's answer? "You're supposed to!" The proud declaration, "I ain't never been to jail" is met with Rock's "Whaddya want? A cookie?"

Perhaps it's not as much a question of priorities (or lack thereof) as one of image. With the community need for strong families and the fostering of good educational habits ignored for so long, making them a priority now is tantamount to admitting an embarrassing oversight.

One would think promoting school choice and responsible fatherhood would trump Ebonics and reparations. Sadly, one would be wrong.

By abdication, it has fallen to comedians to hold a mirror to our black communities. By refusing to acknowledge real problems, the "leaders" dropped that mirror, shattering the dreams of many still trapped - by choice or circumstance - and unable to take advantage of the benefits past civil rights leaders won for them.

While Cosby's speech, Rock's stand-up and Chappelle's skits make for hilarious comedy, the tragedy is the stunning lack of leadership in black America today.

That's no laughing matter.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
ChiptBeef
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Post by ChiptBeef »

Accountable wrote: A racist is a bigot based on skin tone. Simply accepting the term doesn't make one a racist.


From the Webster's New World College Dictionary:

"racism n. 1 a doctrine or teaching, without scientific support, that claims to find racial differences in character, intelligence, etc., that asserts the superiority of one race over another or others, and that seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races 2 any program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, etc. based on such beliefs - rac'ist n. adj."

Thanks for the clarification. If I get it right, you would support eliminating all questions about someones race or ethnicity on job applications, for example. I think that would be a proactive way of moving closer to Mr. Kings dream. Based on the definition cited, I would argue there is more to the label of "racist" than the issue of skin color or "tone".
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

ChiptBeef wrote: From the Webster's New World College Dictionary:



"racism n. 1 a doctrine or teaching, without scientific support, that claims to find racial differences in character, intelligence, etc., that asserts the superiority of one race over another or others, and that seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races 2 any program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, etc. based on such beliefs - rac'ist n. adj."



Thanks for the clarification. If I get it right, you would support eliminating all questions about someones race or ethnicity on job applications, for example. I think that would be a proactive way of moving closer to Mr. Kings dream. Based on the definition cited, I would argue there is more to the label of "racist" than the issue of skin color or "tone".
Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! If you were here with me I'd embarass myself with some kind of physical gesture. :yh_dance I consistently refuse to categorize myself on such forms.



If we can convince people that race is a fiction, racism becomes irrelevant. It goes away. That's the first layer.



I spent 100 years in Rome, New York, in 1992-1993 (14 feet of snow in one year :eek: ). There were no black people, save the few black GIs. All the white people aligned themselves based on ancestral nationality. There were Pols, Italians, Irish, and Jews predominantly. Each was proud of their culture, heritage, food, and traditions. Each good-naturedly joked with each other using age-old stereotypes (similar thing happened in England). They valued their own culture; they respected the other cultures; they valued and respected each other. Yes, there were "mixed marriages" as well.



That's what I envision first within my sphere of influence, then nationwide, then worldwide.



It's a worthy goal.
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Post by ChiptBeef »

Accountable wrote: Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! If you were here with me I'd embarass myself with some kind of physical gesture. I consistently refuse to categorize myself on such forms. If we can convince people that race is a fiction, racism becomes irrelevant. It goes away. It's a worthy goal.
Physical gesture accepted (via cyber-space). I'm sorry that finding common ground for some mutual agreement was like pulling teeth, for you and I. I don't mean to spread manure on that ground, but I think it will be next to impossible to make the fact of race fiction. Are we all part of the human race? Yes. So in that light, race will always be a part of life, world-wide. With proactive ideas like the one that we firmly agree on, the vitriol surrounding the issues of race can be softened and increasingly abated. That, as part of Mr. King's dream, is "a worthy goal," IMO. :yh_hugs
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Manure's fertilizer, y'know. :-6
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Post by ChiptBeef »

Accountable wrote: Manure's fertilizer, y'know.
Once again... by your leave. :yh_youkid :yh_youkid :yh_youkid :yh_youkid
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
TruthSeekerToo
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Post by TruthSeekerToo »

ChiptBeef wrote: Having just past the celebration of one of many race relations leaders, Mr. Martin Luther King, the lingering question is, when and how will we finally realize Mr. King's dream that he spoke about in his famous speech. Some members have posted sentiments that since January 16, 2006 has past, we should shelve the discussion of Mr. King and race until the same time next year. I believe we should try to live Mr. King's dream everyday, so I am proactively starting this thread so that we can collectively have a place to continually discuss the issue of race relations in a manner that might help advance a legacy of positive and protected civil rights for all.
I appreciate you starting this. You can't solve a problem if you're not willing to talk about it. We shouldn't discuss it just once a year. One thing that bothers me is when people assume from where you live you are a certain way. Like if you're from New York or California, you're immediately seen as more accepting than if your from the South. I consider that a form of racism by stereotyping. We should be willing to accept one another equally.
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Post by Lon »

TruthSeekerToo wrote: I appreciate you starting this. You can't solve a problem if you're not willing to talk about it. We shouldn't discuss it just once a year. One thing that bothers me is when people assume from where you live you are a certain way. Like if you're from New York or California, you're immediately seen as more accepting than if your from the South. I consider that a form of racism by stereotyping. We should be willing to accept one another equally.


I disagree. Talking about it occasionally on a Forum as we do is fine and can be interesting, but will not change individual mindsets. You will not convert a bigot, a sexist, atheist, anarchist, liberal, conservative by posting anything contrary to their way of thinking. The best that comes from it is an understanding of the other person's thinking and that is fine until it gets into personal insults and senseless arguments instead of debate.

As far as sterotyping is concerned, that can be nothing more than a generalization in many cases and not indicative of a persons overall attitude and opinion of a certain group. Example: I don't get along very well with in your face, over the top New Yorkers (city). Does that mean that I am stereotyping New Yorkers? Of course not.

I don't like cocky, in your face, rap talkin, drug dealin African Americans. Does that mean I don't like African Americans? Unfortunately, our society has become so out of kilter with this PC (Politically Correct) crap, that one dare not say anything that smarts of criticism lest they become labeled a racist or bigot.
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Post by ChiptBeef »

Lon wrote: I disagree. Talking about it occasionally on a Forum as we do is fine and can be interesting, but will not change individual mindsets.
"Never say never. Stranger things have happened."

I don't know who first said those popular phrases, but they seemed fitting. This is a world-wide forum. Something that is said or debated here might motivate someone to take a positive action that could affect someone else in a positive way. And that cycle could repeat itself, over and over again. Positive thinking is the ticket, IMO. :)
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

ChiptBeef wrote: "Never say never. Stranger things have happened."



I don't know who first said those popular phrases, but they seemed fitting. This is a world-wide forum. Something that is said or debated here might motivate someone to take a positive action that could affect someone else in a positive way. And that cycle could repeat itself, over and over again. Positive thinking is the ticket, IMO. :)
Gotta agree with Chip on this one, Lon. I don't understand the purpose of debating important issues unless it is to reach a consensus or to better understand & respect an opposing view. Going to all that trouble to express your viewpoint without expecting some kind of effect would be, well, boring for me.



Considering others' views, and expressing my own, forces me to examine and clarify what I claim to believe.

This is vitally important for people who fall back on the 'well, that's the way I was raised' argument. My parents or community may have been wrong - in which case I need to adjust my own thoughts. Or I may discover that they were right - which will further cement my view and, more importantly, will make that view my own. I no longer need 'well, that's the way I was raised'. Either way, I'm better for the exercise.



Because of conversations here:

I am more convinced than ever of the importance of granting citizen's rights prior to birth, to protect life.

I have changed my opinion about the Patriot Act somewhat.

I have found respect for the importance of labor unions.

I have discovered that I am not as firm in my stance on church & state as I once believed.



No, Lon, the only way to change a bigot, sexist, atheist, anarchist, liberal, or conservative is through discussions like these. We just need to learn control when facing the temptation to get personal. That can only come with practice.
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Post by ChiptBeef »

Accountable wrote: No, Lon, the only way to change a bigot, sexist, atheist, anarchist, liberal, or conservative is through discussions like these. We just need to learn control when facing the temptation to get personal. That can only come with practice.
Amen. I have learned from discussions on this forum that what I consider average debate, others can find offensive, so I've tried to temper my input so I can be part of the solution. "Many hands make light work." I don't know who said that first either, but it's true. ;)
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
TruthSeekerToo
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Post by TruthSeekerToo »

I just learned that Coretta Scott King passed away overnight. I think she did a wonderful job of keeping her husband's work going. How do you think this will effect the civil rights issue in the future?
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Post by Accountable »

TruthSeekerToo wrote: I just learned that Coretta Scott King passed away overnight. I think she did a wonderful job of keeping her husband's work going. How do you think this will effect the civil rights issue in the future?
The scavengers will pick over the remains of the dream, each claiming that thier own selfish motives are a reflection of the dream.



Pardon my skepticism
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Post by TruthSeekerToo »

Thanks for saying that, Accountable. I was wanting to say something like that, but being from the south I though it might be taken the wrong way. I heard stories how the King family had internal debates about the way Dr. King's legacy should be portrayed. I hope the remaining siblings can work things out to help advance the issue of civil rights.
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Post by ChiptBeef »

Accountable wrote: The scavengers will pick over the remains of the dream, each claiming that thier own selfish motives are a reflection of the dream.



Pardon my skepticism
Don't apologize. It's already started with Lowery and Carter's political rants at the memorial service for Coretta Scott King. They couldn't even put their agendas aside for one day. Who will be next?
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
TruthSeekerToo
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Post by TruthSeekerToo »

Keep a look out for race hustlers Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. :eek:
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Post by ChiptBeef »

Accountable wrote: The scavengers will pick over the remains of the dream, each claiming that thier own selfish motives are a reflection of the dream.



Pardon my skepticism
It looks like "the scavengers" will have to wait until the family settles their fued.

"What's next for the King Center?" by William Jelani Cobb, Special to AOL Black Voices

http://blackvoices.aol.com/black_news/m ... 0809990009
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
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Post by Accountable »

And so it begins. :thinking:
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Post by PlowBoy »

I just posted in "Spots" thread about Darfur in the Sudan. I know we can't be the policeman of the world, but shouldn't the UN be doing something about the racial genocide that is happening there?
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Post by Accountable »

PlowBoy wrote: I just posted in "Spots" thread about Darfur in the Sudan. I know we can't be the policeman of the world, but shouldn't the UN be doing something about the racial genocide that is happening there?
The UN? Absolutely! Wouldn't it be nice if they did something?
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Post by ChiptBeef »

That would be the perfect place for the UN to show the world what it can do. It shamed itself recently with the oil-for-food scandal. This would be a good way to get back some of the credibility it has lost over the years.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
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Post by Irmin »

If you continue attempting to force different races to live togehter in peace you will forever be in limbo. Take a look at all the affrimative action policies, positive discriminaiton and race laws that have been established that seek to hold together a fractured society ever since the West became infected with liberalism. We are becoming Orwell's 1984. We live in liberal totalitarian state. Whites must awaken and break the chains that bind them.

Wanna knwo the truth about Martin Luther King? He was a plagiarist and communist who frequented white prostitutes. The man was a hypocrite, no one should remember MLK. Glad my country doesn't commemorate him.
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Post by RedGlitter »

Irmin;663521 wrote: If you continue attempting to force different races to live togehter in peace you will forever be in limbo. Take a look at all the affrimative action policies, positive discriminaiton and race laws that have been established that seek to hold together a fractured society ever since the West became infected with liberalism. We are becoming Orwell's 1984. We live in liberal totalitarian state. Whites must awaken and break the chains that bind them.

Wanna knwo the truth about Martin Luther King? He was a plagiarist and communist who frequented white prostitutes. The man was a hypocrite, no one should remember MLK. Glad my country doesn't commemorate him.


Proof please?
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Post by Mia »

Very difficult one this is.My opinion is not so much a matter of skin colour, but more Religion and culture. I think the Brits resent the fact that other religions are allow.ed to kill animals in a slow and cruel way for Halal meat.Also will not use alcohol based hand cleaner when visiting relatives in hospital,hence the spread of MRSA and other nasty hospital infections.We still have a long way to go.When the Irish started to emigrate to England they were hated.The hate came back when we had the IRA bombings.I had Irish parents but was born here,but felt the hatred towards the Irish that was around.I can understand how our second and third generation of immigrants are feeling.
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Post by Accountable »

Irmin;663521 wrote: If you continue attempting to force different races to live togehter in peace you will forever be in limbo. Take a look at all the affrimative action policies, positive discriminaiton and race laws that have been established that seek to hold together a fractured society ever since the West became infected with liberalism. We are becoming Orwell's 1984. We live in liberal totalitarian state. Whites must awaken and break the chains that bind them.



Wanna knwo the truth about Martin Luther King? He was a plagiarist and communist who frequented white prostitutes. The man was a hypocrite, no one should remember MLK. Glad my country doesn't commemorate him.
"Force"? Nobody's forcing you to live with different anybody. The world's wide open and spacious. I'm sure you can find sufficient bigots to make you feel secure in your beliefs. Just be diligent.
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Post by Accountable »

Mia;663552 wrote: Very difficult one this is.My opinion is not so much a matter of skin colour, but more Religion and culture. I think the Brits resent the fact that other religions are allow.ed to kill animals in a slow and cruel way for Halal meat.Also will not use alcohol based hand cleaner when visiting relatives in hospital,hence the spread of MRSA and other nasty hospital infections.We still have a long way to go.When the Irish started to emigrate to England they were hated.The hate came back when we had the IRA bombings.I had Irish parents but was born here,but felt the hatred towards the Irish that was around.I can understand how our second and third generation of immigrants are feeling.
Where is "here"? I only ask because you haven't put it in your profile and we're quite a global group.
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Post by spot »

You'd need to live in England to work it out. Liverpool.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
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Post by Accountable »

Ah.
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Post by spot »

Irmin;663521 wrote: If you continue attempting to force different races to live togehter in peace you will forever be in limbo. Take a look at all the affrimative action policies, positive discriminaiton and race laws that have been established that seek to hold together a fractured society ever since the West became infected with liberalism. We are becoming Orwell's 1984. We live in liberal totalitarian state. Whites must awaken and break the chains that bind them.

Wanna knwo the truth about Martin Luther King? He was a plagiarist and communist who frequented white prostitutes. The man was a hypocrite, no one should remember MLK. Glad my country doesn't commemorate him.


Your problem is that the British have long since fixed the rules of representation to "first past the post". This was done, together with extending the franchise, to prevent anything but centrist points of view from speaking at a national political level. Anglo Saxon suppression began when those swarthy bastard garlic-infested Normans took control of London, built their Tower and started flashing their bling at the village girls to infect the purity of the line. The minority bleated then, what small tattered remnant that's left is bleating no differently now. Long may they continue to do so, it raises a smile and shows the younger generation just what a nasty sight bigotry is.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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