Warsai wrote: What are your thoughts on affirmative action? Are you in favor or against?
Great topic. I like to look at it this way:
1. People who are FOR affirmative action are the same ones who decry Racial Profiling. Think about all the racial profiling cases that are in the courts today: Criminal issues, security issues, terrorism issues, gang issues, police and law enforcement issues, travel issues, immigration issues, etc.
Their view is that racial profiling is wrong, wrong, wrong.
2. BUT, these are the same people who WANT Racial Profiling when it comes
affirmative action. They WANT people to be categorized, grouped, identified, and selected based SOLEY on their race and gender.
Hypocrisy? I think so.
Affirmative Action
Affirmative Action
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anastrophe
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Affirmative Action
affirmative action was a great idea, and a valuable system, forty years ago. because an idea is a good one doesn't mean it will always be a good one. while there are still areas in our society (both geographically and sociologically) that need improvement in race relations, the need for a system of imbalanced privileges to assist the underprivileged is outdated.
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Affirmative Action
I would have to say, from personal experience, that I am for the most part in favor of Affirmative Action. I was born with a physical disability and use a wheelchair. Affirmative Action has allowed me to get jobs for which I was well qualified but would have been likely/probably/almost certainly/not-a-doubtly 
... discriminated against.
Mind you, there are ways around it for people who are determined that, for example, people who cannot walk must surely not have brains therefore we couldn't possibly have those people in our office/company. Oy, the stories I could tell! :sneaky:
Attitudes can't be legislated so unless or until someone thinks of a better way for people in minority groups to get their feet in the door so they can show their worth, I have to say that Affirmative Action still has its place.
MiwSher
... discriminated against. Mind you, there are ways around it for people who are determined that, for example, people who cannot walk must surely not have brains therefore we couldn't possibly have those people in our office/company. Oy, the stories I could tell! :sneaky:
Attitudes can't be legislated so unless or until someone thinks of a better way for people in minority groups to get their feet in the door so they can show their worth, I have to say that Affirmative Action still has its place.
MiwSher
Diagonally Parked in a Parallel Universe 
Affirmative Action
I think that underprivileged shouldn't be dependent on the colour of skin. If people can get beyond using the system for the colour of their skin then those that need its services will be able to get them.
Had affirmative action not been put in place, America would be a far different country. Far less prosperous and far more violent. There is still a need for it but the focus should start looking at people being deserving as being the impoverished across the colour spectrum.
In Canada, during the sixties until today many of the Caribbean nations sent waves of immigrants into the country. The racist spectre of the white man raised its ugly head. Can't gat a job. Can't get a break. Can't do nothing because the white man is keeping us down.
This would have played really well in the press but the one thing that they didn't count on was the fact that we had Black people living in Canada for years before they ever arrived. Their bellyaching didn't wash. The louder they became, the more strident did the Black Canadians become. Don't blame whitey. Go out and get a job just like the rest of us. We didn't start at the top. Why should you?
The fantasies of the blacks were dispelled even more when the populace started to tell them that we are not Americans nor is this the America of the 50' and 60's. This is Canada.
This is not to say that there aren't racist in the country. We have what I like to term as the Non-racist racists. Not ballsy enough to be a clanner but insidious enough to hide the truth from the public. They are rapidly going the way of the do-do but like all good things it takes time to get there.
I'll enjoy watching the transition from colour to need in the American mindset. Can't do it overnight but it can be done.
Had affirmative action not been put in place, America would be a far different country. Far less prosperous and far more violent. There is still a need for it but the focus should start looking at people being deserving as being the impoverished across the colour spectrum.
In Canada, during the sixties until today many of the Caribbean nations sent waves of immigrants into the country. The racist spectre of the white man raised its ugly head. Can't gat a job. Can't get a break. Can't do nothing because the white man is keeping us down.
This would have played really well in the press but the one thing that they didn't count on was the fact that we had Black people living in Canada for years before they ever arrived. Their bellyaching didn't wash. The louder they became, the more strident did the Black Canadians become. Don't blame whitey. Go out and get a job just like the rest of us. We didn't start at the top. Why should you?
The fantasies of the blacks were dispelled even more when the populace started to tell them that we are not Americans nor is this the America of the 50' and 60's. This is Canada.
This is not to say that there aren't racist in the country. We have what I like to term as the Non-racist racists. Not ballsy enough to be a clanner but insidious enough to hide the truth from the public. They are rapidly going the way of the do-do but like all good things it takes time to get there.
I'll enjoy watching the transition from colour to need in the American mindset. Can't do it overnight but it can be done.
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Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Affirmative Action
Warsai wrote: What are your thoughts on affirmative action? Are you in favor or against?
When I first read your message I thought AA has to do something with positive attitude. But when I read subsequent messages I was confused. Is AA some policy of US government?
When I first read your message I thought AA has to do something with positive attitude. But when I read subsequent messages I was confused. Is AA some policy of US government?
Affirmative Action
Suresh Gupta wrote: When I first read your message I thought AA has to do something with positive attitude. But when I read subsequent messages I was confused. Is AA some policy of US government?
Affirmative Action is a US government project that was put into being in the 60's in order to make sure that the African Americans in the nation would no longer have to suffer the ignomy of not being able to get their foot in the doors of the employed or educated in the States.
It mandated that jobs and education were to be given to this minority in order to help them be assimilated into the workforce and educational systems. My guess, being a Canadian, is that millions of people were helped to become citizens that had a chance at having decent lives within the American culture.
One of the major drawbacks with the program came out in the education system when people that had the required marks to enter a particular university were passed over for African Americans that were mandated to have places and opportunities to attend these schools. Being only so much room meant that there were many white Americans who felt ripped off by not being able to attend the university of their choice.
As a result America has flourished but it, the program, has been in place for a long time and there is a sense that the program should be finished and made to help impoverished aspirants to the dream as opposed to people of colour.
Affirmative Action is a US government project that was put into being in the 60's in order to make sure that the African Americans in the nation would no longer have to suffer the ignomy of not being able to get their foot in the doors of the employed or educated in the States.
It mandated that jobs and education were to be given to this minority in order to help them be assimilated into the workforce and educational systems. My guess, being a Canadian, is that millions of people were helped to become citizens that had a chance at having decent lives within the American culture.
One of the major drawbacks with the program came out in the education system when people that had the required marks to enter a particular university were passed over for African Americans that were mandated to have places and opportunities to attend these schools. Being only so much room meant that there were many white Americans who felt ripped off by not being able to attend the university of their choice.
As a result America has flourished but it, the program, has been in place for a long time and there is a sense that the program should be finished and made to help impoverished aspirants to the dream as opposed to people of colour.
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Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Affirmative Action
Thanks Kensloft,
Now I understand. It seems similar to reservation policy of Indian Government which reserves seats for certain categories of people who have been considered denied equal opportunities in education and employment. It had helped many people.
The policy was meant to be a temporary measure but as politicians discovered it a good tool to create vote banks the policy was periodically extended and now it has almost become a permanent measure. Now more and more groups are demanding inclusion in the reserved list on the basis of religion, caste, economic status, gender etc. Politicians are now forcing private industrial sector also to provide reservation, which is being opposed. It was good as a one time measure but Indefinite extension of the policy has fragmented the society.
Like you say in USA, this policy has also affected those Indians who were not covered under reservation criteria. The policy has degenerated in to a tool for reserved people for getting admission in good institutions on the basis of lesser marks whereas others were denied the admission even when they had better marks. The same problem is there in employment and even promotions. Seats in municipal cprporations, state legislatures and parliament are also reserved and more and more percentage is being demanded by reserved groups and new aspirants. When V. P. Singh was Prime Minister, hundreds of meritorious students burnt themselves to oppose the continuation of this policy. Whereas majority is ready to give the benefit once to each family in reserved categories they are against granting this benefit again and again to thesame person and his family.
I am not in favour of continuing this policy. I feel that the benefit should be granted to all deserving people without any categorization to empower them to become responsible citizens of the country rather than filling the posts with those who can not compete and are accommodated with handicaps.
Now I understand. It seems similar to reservation policy of Indian Government which reserves seats for certain categories of people who have been considered denied equal opportunities in education and employment. It had helped many people.
The policy was meant to be a temporary measure but as politicians discovered it a good tool to create vote banks the policy was periodically extended and now it has almost become a permanent measure. Now more and more groups are demanding inclusion in the reserved list on the basis of religion, caste, economic status, gender etc. Politicians are now forcing private industrial sector also to provide reservation, which is being opposed. It was good as a one time measure but Indefinite extension of the policy has fragmented the society.
Like you say in USA, this policy has also affected those Indians who were not covered under reservation criteria. The policy has degenerated in to a tool for reserved people for getting admission in good institutions on the basis of lesser marks whereas others were denied the admission even when they had better marks. The same problem is there in employment and even promotions. Seats in municipal cprporations, state legislatures and parliament are also reserved and more and more percentage is being demanded by reserved groups and new aspirants. When V. P. Singh was Prime Minister, hundreds of meritorious students burnt themselves to oppose the continuation of this policy. Whereas majority is ready to give the benefit once to each family in reserved categories they are against granting this benefit again and again to thesame person and his family.
I am not in favour of continuing this policy. I feel that the benefit should be granted to all deserving people without any categorization to empower them to become responsible citizens of the country rather than filling the posts with those who can not compete and are accommodated with handicaps.
Affirmative Action
I'm not sure that AA covers the native Americans. As I said, I am a Canadian and can't recall that they were included in this measure. I don't think so. Maybe someone will come along and fill us in on the policy.