Honoring Mr. King's Plagiarism?

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:46 pm

On Monday, we celebrate Martin Luther King Day. After his death, Mr. King was found to be a plagiarist. He's listed in one "Hall of Shame" for plagiarists. This fact has been down-played by the main stream media. We should continue to celebrate Mr. King's contribution to our collective heritage. That celebration should be honest enough to include recognition of his plagiarism, on a national level. It's like the old saying... "The truth will set you free."

http://www.waronplagiarism.org/hallofshame.htm

http://www.waronplagiarism.org/theology ... on.htm#mlk

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:48 pm

ChiptBeef wrote: On Monday, we celebrate Martin Luther King Day. After his death, Mr. King was found to be a plagiarist. He's listed in one "Hall of Shame" for plagiarists. This fact has been down-played by the main stream media. We should continue to celebrate Mr. King's contribution to our collective heritage. That celebration should be honest enough to include recognition of his plagiarism, on a national level. It's like the old saying... "The truth will set you free."

http://www.waronplagiarism.org/hallofshame.htm

http://www.waronplagiarism.org/theology ... on.htm#mlk

and your toast is burnt!

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:53 pm

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: and your toast is burnt!
So you support the plagiarism? Do you think the media should continue to try and overlook it? Should we just carry on, "business as usual," without even a fair discussion of the controversy? I expected more, even from the cheap seats.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:44 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Oh no, I just plagiarized the bible!:rolleyes:

That sounds like an "everbody does it, so forget it" defense, more than scripture. But if you're admitting to plagiairsm, you might rate a national holiday too!

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:02 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: Me and old MLK share a b-day.

I had a dream!

I'm sure your "dream" was yours. If not, I'm equally certain you didn't publish it as part of your educational career for a degree or broadcast it in any political speeches delivered to millions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:28 pm

ChiptBeef wrote: So you support the plagiarism? Do you think the media should continue to try and overlook it? Should we just carry on, "business as usual," without even a fair discussion of the controversy? I expected more, even from the cheap seats.

No, I'm just informing you that your toast is burnt.

btw, I had a hankering for chipped beef and gravy the other day, (had a hard time finding the dried beef) it was crap, I used a gravy mix, should have made my own.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:32 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: That "cheap seats" comment was pretty condescending, wasn't it?:mad:

You sir, are no gentleman.

Surely not the first time such a general phrase has been used on this forum. As to the "no gentleman" slight... "opinions vary" - Patrick Swazye, Roadhouse (the movie). How about some real discussion about the thread topic? Or is it more of the "can't attack the message, so attack the messenger" thing?

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:58 pm

Sure they were good sentiments. But, plagiarism is plagiarism. He wasn't a "spokesperson" in college, where much of his plagiarism ocurred. If he was so committed to doing the right thing, as we all can acknowledge has been the mantra since his death, why didn't he just give credit to those that first brought the ideas and work to the forefront? Senator Joe Biden had his presidential campaign derailed because of plagiarism in his political speeches. I just think the historical record should be updated to include all the relevant facets of this mans life. Such a fraud should be considered relevant, in my opinion.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:26 pm

Dr King plagarised, so we should stop celebrating the great and brave man he was?

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves and had an affair with one... should we take him off the currency and stop teaching about him in schools?

George Washington owned slaves too and had a vast hemp farm. he didn't smoke it(or did he) but he grew it and sold it. doesn't that make him a poor example for kids to follow?

give me a berak.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:34 pm

Wolverine wrote: Dr King plagarised, so we should stop celebrating the great and brave man he was?

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves and had an affair with one... should we take him off the currency and stop teaching about him in schools?

George Washington owned slaves too and had a vast hemp farm. he didn't smoke it(or did he) but he grew it and sold it. doesn't that make him a poor example for kids to follow?

give me a berak.

Is that like a barium?

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:41 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: Its Klingon for "I'm going to break your little chicken neck"

:)

Better be nice, your Birthday is tomorrow.:guitarist

(my X's is the 16th)

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:45 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: Its Klingon for "I'm going to break your little chicken neck"

very good, cheeks. i'm impressed and scared.

i just can't type, sorry

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:37 pm

Wolverine wrote: Dr King plagarised, so we should stop celebrating the great and brave man he was?

No one has made that argument in this thread yet. Celebrating is fine, as long as it is done honestly. That's one of the reasons why the Sally Hemmings family did what they did, so the could attend the annual reunion at Monticello and have access to the family cemetery. It's kind of like "truth in advertising."

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:51 pm

Far Rider wrote: What the hecks your point?
Mr. King's plagiarism was a combination of direct plagiarism, intentional plagiarism and mosaic plagiarism. The "6000 year history" argument is often put forth by those that try to defend and/or support plagiarism. Mr. King's plagiarism was much more than stealing someone else's ideas. He stole their actual work and tried to pass it off as his own. That's classic plagiarism. Whitewash of any kind will not make that go away. The only question to answer is if we will face it squarely and recognize it on a national level. Or will most of us continue to act like it never happened so Mr. King can retain his pseudo deity status.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:57 pm

ChiptBeef wrote: Mr. King's plagiarism was a combination of direct plagiarism, intentional plagiarism and mosaic plagiarism. The "6000 year history" argument is often put forth by those that try to defend and/or support plagiarism. Mr. King's plagiarism was much more than stealing someone else's ideas. He stole their actual work and tried to pass it off as his own. That's classic plagiarism. Whitewash of any kind will not make that go away. The only question to answer is if we will face it squarely and recognize it on a national level. Or will most of us continue to act like it never happened so Mr. King can retain his pseudo deity status.

......................................-blah,blah,blah

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ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:30 pm

Some folks support the fraud of plagiarism, others don't. Some find it worthy of debate, others don't. That's one reason "The Forum Garden" is so wonderful. All those stellar threads to choose from. If you don't care about the thread topic or posts, you can move on. God bless America (no offense intended).

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:36 pm

Another plagiarist supporter. Look at them coming out of the woodwork now.....

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:48 pm

ChiptBeef wrote: Another plagiarist supporter. Look at them coming out of the woodwork now.....

.......................................

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:16 pm

ChiptBeef wrote: On Monday, we celebrate Martin Luther King Day. After his death, Mr. King was found to be a plagiarist. He's listed in one "Hall of Shame" for plagiarists. This fact has been down-played by the main stream media. We should continue to celebrate Mr. King's contribution to our collective heritage. That celebration should be honest enough to include recognition of his plagiarism, on a national level. It's like the old saying... "The truth will set you free."

http://www.waronplagiarism.org/hallofshame.htm

http://www.waronplagiarism.org/theology ... on.htm#mlk

Plagiarism is wrong no matter who does it, but does that diminish the effect that King had on the Civil Rights Movement? What benefit would there be in recognizing his plagiarism, alleged affairs or any other derogatory information about him?

Should we on the anniversary of George Washington's birth, Lincoln, Roosevelt or any other deceased public figure, include all the warts and boils of their lives? What is the real motive of those that wish to do so?

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:04 pm

Far Rider wrote: Ya know my brother attended Bible college, as did my father... MLK was in college to be a preacher, a thealogian... 90% of what they write about is the Bible, the other 10% is an opinion of their own, often that opinion agrees with others who are in the same denominational or type of theology... I would find it amazing if MLK did not plegerise.
I'm not aware of anyone raising claims of plagiarism against Mr. King based on his use of the Bible. Sources like the Bible which originated prior to copyright laws are exempt from such claims as they are part of the public domain. The claims against Mr. King were related, in part, to his plagiarism of actual work by others, either published in writing or broadcast by formal speeches, that are protected. Hence, the finding of plagiarism.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:19 pm

Lon wrote: Plagiarism is wrong no matter who does it, but does that diminish the effect that King had on the Civil Rights Movement? What benefit would there be in recognizing his plagiarism
No one has argued to diminish Mr. King's role in the civil rights era. In Post #1, I argued we should continue to celebrate Mr. King's efforts for our heritage. His plagiairism should be recognized, in my opinion, because it was part of his public life since his religious educational credentials were a stepping stone to his public role, and history should reflect that. His alleged affairs or other things you referred to, unless part of his public life, are irrelevant.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:20 pm

i have no claims against MLK. i only want to say i was born and raised in DC and was there for the speech. it was edifying. and riveting.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:38 pm

lady cop wrote: i have no claims against MLK. i only want to say i was born and raised in DC and was there for the speech. it was edifying. and riveting.
I recently learned of Mr. King's plagiarism. I have no financial claim against Mr. King since he did not plagiairze any of my work. The "edifying and riveting" effect you speak of cannot be denied. For me, that was diminished from learning Mr. King had stolen others work and passed it off as his own. I, along with many other Americans, had placed Mr. King on a pedestal. I realize now he was just a man, and prone to failure along the way, like all of us.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:06 pm

See the links provided in Post #1. The source material is available there. Happy hunting.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:10 pm

ChiptBeef wrote: No one has argued to diminish Mr. King's role in the civil rights era. In Post #1, I argued we should continue to celebrate Mr. King's efforts for our heritage. His plagiairism should be recognized, in my opinion, because it was part of his public life since his religious educational credentials were a stepping stone to his public role, and history should reflect that. His alleged affairs or other things you referred to, unless part of his public life, are irrelevant.
Do you feel that other deceased public figures credentials should likewise be brought to the forefront on their celebrated anniversary? We could make a fairly large list.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:19 pm

Lon wrote: Do you feed that other deceased public figures credentials should likewise be brought to the forefront on their celebrated anniversary? We could make a fairly large list.
I wouldn't limit your proposal. It should include any public figure, alive or otherwise, whenever the plagiarism is discovered, no matter if it's their "celebrated anniversary" or not. Accountability is good, don't you think? It's not about bringing dishonor to those that have passed. It's about setting the record straight, to me.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:25 pm

Far Rider wrote: Chippy you got any skeletons in you closet? Are any of your heros in that pleguriasm archive?
This isn't about me... or is it? Mr. King was one of my heros in that plagiarism archive, if that's what you're asking.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:34 pm

flopstock wrote: Oh, you mean the link to the site that is very careful to point out that these areÃ¢â‚¬Å“alleged plagiaristsÃ¢â‚¬
Legaleze and semantics. I've seen enough evidence to remove the "alleged." I'm just sharing my view of the matter. The record is crystal clear, in my opinion. I have nothing to prove to you. Carry on.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:14 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Lut ... hip_issues

http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/Is ... e/mlk.html

http://www.ety.com/HRP/race/plagiarism.htm

It's a fact. It's not "alleged." Enough said.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:44 am

flopstock wrote: Oh no darlin... just sharing 'YOUR' opinion without stating that it is merely 'YOUR' opinion
It's a blend of my opinion and verifiable fact, which I have shared since the first post of this thread, as many posters do, for the most part. But I guess you need to make it all about me, vice the isssue of the thread. "If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger" as the saying goes (author unknown). :rolleyes:

P.S. Is it your practice to end every sentence with "IMO" or something like it?

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:18 am

ChiptBeef wrote: It's a blend of my opinion and verifiable fact, which I have shared since the first post of this thread, as many posters do, for the most part. But I guess you need to make it all about me, vice the isssue of the thread. "If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger" as the saying goes (author unknown). :rolleyes:

P.S. Is it your practice to end every sentence with "IMO" or something like it?

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, LOL @ ChiptBeef

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:23 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: LOL @ ChitBeef
"Stupid" is an interesting way to self-identify.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:34 am

ChiptBeef wrote: "Stupid" is an interesting way to self-identify.

That's Plagiarism!;)

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:39 am

:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl StupidCowboyTricks wrote: That's Plagiarism!;)

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:11 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: That's Plagiarism!
I used quotation marks around one word and cited the original source in my post. Wrong again. Thst's not plagiarism. Better luck next time. :-5

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:20 am

ChiptBeef wrote: I used quotation marks around one word and cited the original source in my post. Wrong again. Thst's not plagiarism. Better luck next time. :-5
it was still funny.:wah: