Smoking ban in UK/liberties

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:50 pm

It seems as if this current government are intent on banning almost anything that people derive enjoyment from.

We are told what to eat, drink and also what we are allowed to say about religion.

Is this not the 'nanny state' gone mad??

What's next? A minister for how to walk? Maybe a government directive on how to wipe your arse?

Any opinions?

Katy

venus · Post by **venus** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:59 pm

Katy1 wrote: It seems as if this current government are intent on banning almost anything that people derive enjoyment from.

We are told what to eat, drink and also what we are allowed to say about religion.

Is this not the 'nanny state' gone mad??

What's next? A minister for how to walk? Maybe a government directive on how to wipe your arse?

Any opinions?

Katy

a MINISTER FOR WALKING... MAYBE JOHN CLEESE WANTS THE JOB!!:D

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:00 pm

I like that idea actually. We'd all be forced to wear bowler hats and carry briefcases though. Could be a bit of a bind.

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:06 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: It cant come quick enough. I dont want to stink like an ashtray or breath other peoples smoke. Its hardly an infringement of someones liberty for goodness sake to go to a smoking area to light up. It works brilliantly in Ireland, its a great success

I don't want to smell like diesel or petrol fumes either but do you think they'll ban cars. I think not. When I was pregnant i gave up smoking but walked into work to keep fit. What a mistake! Every time I arrived in work I had to literally wash my face of the film that had built up from having to breathe in car exhaust fumes. And that has been PROVED to be harmful. It's carbon monoxide for god's sake!

At least you can avoid cigarette smoke if you want.

Why not have smoking and non smoking pubs. Seems the most logical solution to me.

Katy

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:30 pm

I wouldn't mind. Most smokers want to be able to stop any way. Those that say they don't simply cannot deal with giving up cigarettes.

Nonetheless, giving up smoking requires a particular state of mind. This is a state of mind that the politicians are not going to concede to as they are making sure that any such law does not effect them.

But, I think that this may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Enough documentation has been provided in this last year at least that shows that of all the drugs that are consumed by society, tobacco is the hardest drug to beat. (Strange that it is legal and no one berates the cigarette smokers as the lowest scum of society.) Further, statistics show that tobacco kills more people than any other drug. Yet, governments spend more money on rehabilitation for illegal drugs than they do for tobacco. What is not so readily advertised is how ineffective these rehabilitation programmes are.

On the other hand, our NHS is being overburdened with tobacco related diseases. Of course, since a large proportion of the electorate are smokers, any plan of action must be radical and not suggest that the electorate are at fault.

While our politicians will be able to continue smoking in places where only they can go, they will impose a law upon the electorate that will cause psychological problems.

All smokers want to stop, but if it were that easy, they would have stopped a long time ago. A vast burden will be taken on by society. The government won't suffer the burden. Society will have to bear the brunt.

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:27 am

I find it totally ridiculous. It's like being back in school but on a far grander scale. I do believe that there should be an element of choice here, anyone who takes the hardline approach of a blanket ban obviously doesn't believe in freedom of choice, just wait until they encroach on something that involves them though. The politicians that are doing this are basically saying 'we're making this decision for you because we know what's best for you', I find it patronising beyond belief and a very sorry state of affairs.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:39 am

I walked past a pub in Hove today that had a facility for smokers....Kids were banned though !!

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:53 am

Sorry Bez, I'm not being ignorant but could you elaborate a bit?

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:00 am

Bez wrote: I walked past a pub in Hove today that had a facility for smokers....Kids were banned though !!

The pub I went past was by the Sussex County Cricket Ground. On the front were 2 plaques. One said that no children under 14 could be accomodated in the pub. The second said that there was separate facilities for Smokers.

Now I'm a smoker but I would put kids first...not that I necessarily think that a pub is the best place for kids, but more and more pubs a re becoming 'family friendly'. Just an observation really !

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:08 am

Clancy wrote: So am I ....only smoke in this room though

You got your own separate smoking facility then Clancy ???

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:23 am

Clancy wrote: The spare room where I keep all the music stuff , and the computer. No one else smokes , so it saves arguments

At least you don't have to go out in the garden

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:44 am

Clancy wrote: Demand a room of your own, put the comp in it , a telly next to it , and bobs yer uncle

No, no....I don't have to out in the garden.....NO WAY....I was worried that YOU may have to .....too darned cold in Scotland for that nonsense.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

Clancy wrote: It's too darned cold in Scotland for anything ! ....I'm told there was a summer in 1935 , but I don't believe it :p

Before my time Clancy....just after the war when I was born, it was so cold down here on the south coast that the sea froze...now that's damned cold ! a freighter carrying coal ran aground going into shoreham harbour and all the local people were collecting the coal that went overboard. Bad times with rationing and stuff.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:08 am

Clancy wrote: There was a item on BBC Scotland news a few weeks back , and it showed our river (Clyde) completly iced over. It had to be around the same time.....Like you were saying , there was a ship froze solid in the water , here, and people walking up it to it ....there were barrels that had fallen off ship ....and there were kids rolling them back and forth to one another.

To be honest we've had very little snow at all (suits me) ....but there is an icy cold wind, ...and the usual rain

Might have been 1947 then. I love the look of snow, but it's so dangerous for walking and driving. I slipped and broke my wrist a few years ago so I'm really cautious now.

We have had 1 day of sunshine this week, but it is so grey and damp. Not enough rain though. We've still got a hosepipe ban.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:20 pm

Arnies back....HIYA....had a bad day ?? xxx

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:30 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: Sorry Bez did I go over the top ? I dont hate smokers, my wife smokes. I just hate people who think its ok to blow it over me and fill my lungs with second hand smoke. Especially those that smoke around young children.

I smoked myself 10 years ago but even then only ever smoked in the garden and never around my children ( who now both unfortunately smoke. C'est la vie )

Only joking...it's quiet here tonight...everyone's in the arcade.

Are you working outside in the cold at the moment....it's been so damp...gets in your bones.xx

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:43 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: No one is encroaching on your personal freedom for goodnes sake. When a ban comes there will be a place for you and your ilk to blow smoke in each others face and to smell each others wretched odour. Blowing unhealthy smoke into my face, IS an infringement of MY personal freedom and it is not asking too much to ask you to do it in a seperate room.

I think you're missing my point Arn. What I'm saying is that there should be pubs that don't allow smoking, and some that do. I think that is a perfectly logical solution to all of this hoo-ha. Is that too much to ask really? I know tha tyou are an Ex-smoker and ex-smokers have very strong opnions on the matter, I used to be a habitual smoker, but now only smoke when I drink (at weekends), so when I do go to the pub I like to have a fag (cigarette for our American friends). Is that too much to ask really?

I wonder if it does happen, whether certain pubs will find a way around it. The MP's that want a blanket ban have said that the partial ban is missing out the pubs in deprived areas that don't serve food, can you really see such a ban being enforced in a pub that is full working class manual labourers? I don't think so. What will they do? send the Police around to check if anyone's smoking? Do you think that in a pub like this that is full of 'regulars' you will get people phoning up to 'grass up' smokers? No. Is this fair and balanced Also no.

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:19 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: Can I see it working in a manual labourers pub ? Of course, why are they any different ? I am in the construction industry myself, so I am one of them. It works perfectly in Ireland and no-one complains at having to go to a room at the back to have a fag and us non smokers can enjoy the conversation without having to wave away the offending smoke. in this scenario every body is happy and no one loses out

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/interna ... =202462005

http://www.thepublican.com/cgi-bin/item ... +%25B+%25Y

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5030227.html

Except the pub owners it would seem, I'm always one to take what governments say with a very large pinch of salt. They say it's working, when in fact there are problems, just the way the English government will twist crime and employment figures.

I have also heard that JD Wetherspoon's profits are down quite sharply and this is because they have introduced non-smoking pubs. We are fast becoming a sterile environment, I don't like.

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:54 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: Witherspoons pubs are unpopular because they are dull and stale. My son and daughter along with their respective partners havent been to one in years,prefering the more usual and lively establishments . They are also music free which doesnt always help the atmosphere. Truth is theyve been going down hill long before any suggestion of banning smoking.

my experience of non smoking pubs in Ireland is extensive. I have lived and worked there on and off for a good few years. The pubs are still full, everyone is still drinking, the only difference is that smokers simply use a smoking room. To suggest Landlords are unhappy is simply not true in my experience, not if there profit margins are unaffected which is largely what is being seeen in Ireland.

I also think smoking pubs and non smoking pubs wouldnt work. As I have sais , my wife smokes so we would both prefer a non smoking environment that caters for smokers elsewhere, other than the bar area. In a smoking environment I would need to drink outside and not enjoy my wifes company.

This really isnt a big issue. I dont see the hardship in going to a seperate room to inhale your smoke before returning to continue the conversation. I do not want to share your desire to inhale smoke and make my clothes smell like an ashtray. If you visited a friends house who did not smoke , you would not just light up would you ? I wouldnt even have the gall to ask

:-5

I would. I didn't think that the smoking ban proposed here had a clause that said that they were allowed a room where smoking was permitted, that's news to me.

And please give the 'clothes smelling like an ashtray' thing a rest, for my sanity.

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:43 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: What ? You dont think its important that your actions make me stink and my clothes feel like they have to be binned ? And you want to talk about peoples liberties ? As a smoker with little regard for others I'm hardly suprised. You would actully have the gall to ask to smoke in someones house that was a non smoker ? I dont care how much my whinging gets up your nose, it will never be as bad as your smoke up mine

I'll go further,just to test your sanity. I have ,on one or two occasions got up from a seat because a passengeron a bus/train has sat next to me and the fact they were a smoker was so obvious, it was offensive. I had too move . Even as a smoker , smoking carraiges were offensive places to sit

Get used to it . Its gonna happen

Man, you are a nutter! Did you know that a psychiatrist can help you with OCD?

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:46 pm

mrsK wrote: I don't smoke in my home therefore no one else does & no one asks as there is a sign at the door saying not to bother.

My children both smoke & they don't even smoke in their own homes,they go outside to smoke.I don't have a problem with smoking out doors:-6

This isn't about smoking in homes really, it's about smoking in pubs. I have no problem with smoking being banned in restaurants, that's fine, but pubs? They're ripping the heart and soul out of our institutions. Make mine a mineral water!

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:53 pm

Bring on the ban. My New Years Resolution was to cut back to passive-smoking 20 a day

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:58 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: So you think Im a nutter because i choose not to sit next to a compulsive smoker, one that smells so offensive that I have to move ?. Have you any idea how it smells, how you smell ? If not, visit a doctor for an examination......on your nose.

Me thinks you protest toooooo much about the OCD. You're the one with the addiction not me

Symptoms of Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder:

Need for perfection and excessive discipline

Preoccupation with orderliness

Inflexibility

Lack of generosity

Hyper-focus on details and rules

Excessive devotion to work

Funny, doesn't sound much like me...

The thing about this is, is that I don't actually smoke any more, apart from when I have a drink, usually at the weekend. I actually enjoy a drink and a smoke, like an adult, I'm asking to be treated like an adult, I'm asking for a choice for all, not to be dictated to by health fascists. 'Oh sod it make that a white wine spritzer, I'm feeling a bit mad...'

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:15 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: So you think you know me from my desire to keep my clothes and lungs clean ? A gift

Was the smell eminating from the smoker tainting your clothes? Was it infiltrating your lungs? Just seems like a very strange reaction to me, to be so utterly reviled by that particular smell. I wouldn't proclaim to know you from your attitude to smoking, just that you're probably slightly obsessive compulsive....

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:18 pm

Arnolds reaction doesn't seem odd or obsessive to me

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:25 pm

Oh for f*cks sake, you're making me want a cigarette now, which is my immediate reaction whenever I hear these arguments, mostly to p*ss off the sanctimonious, preachy non-smokers, or even worse the Ex-smoker. And if I'm going to smoke I may have to drink, see what you did? Oh please do not tell me how much damage i'm doing to my liver, I'll have to get the cocaine out..

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:54 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: You obviously have the memory of a goldfish so I'll recap for you. Keep up if yopu can.

I am not against smokers, my wife is a smoker and I love her dearly.

Both my children smoke and I love them dearly

She does not smell and she does not smoke near me

I loathe obsessive chain smokers that smell repulsive . We have all smelt them (except you apparantly)

I loathe smokey atmospheres (like some pubs)

Hows that for now, any more compulsive jokes ?

I could do, pretty easily, but I won't. I just have this vision of your wife and children scrubbing themselves manically, 'oh dear lord he'll be home soon, we'd better remove every trace of cigarette odour, he'll lock himself in the shed all night if we don't.'

Of course I can smell when someone's been smoking, that's not a well thought out comment, I just don't get so repulsed as you, remember I did say that I'm not a compulsive smoker.

I just really feel that we are all going to live in a sterile environment in the near future, no risks, no choices, just our salt free gruel, non smoking pubs where we drink no more than 2 units per day & not talking about religion (in case we incite some racial hatred), and if we do have have 'the memory of a goldfish, we can always refer to our ID cards with all of personal data stored on them. 1984 here we come!

Slade1 · Post by **Slade1** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:05 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: DO NOT , REPEAT , DO NOT USE THE GOOD NAME OF MY FAMILY TO TRASH ME. YOU KNOW NEITHER ME NOR MY FAMILY. YOU HAVE PUSHED ME TOO FAR. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN ANY FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH YOU

Calm down, I didn't insult your family, I'm sure that they are nice people. I was just relaying what I thought was a humorous picture, if you did the same to me I would find it amusing, obviously we have very different senses of humour. I apologise if you found it really offensive, it sincerely was not meant to be.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:01 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: DO NOT , REPEAT , DO NOT USE THE GOOD NAME OF MY FAMILY TO TRASH ME. YOU KNOW NEITHER ME NOR MY FAMILY. YOU HAVE PUSHED ME TOO FAR. :-4 I Missed you Arnie