I stumbled across this article. I thought it was interesting and thought provoking. What do you think?
Right from the get go Satan has target his greatest enemy on earth and that is the churches. But he has had almost 2000 years to infiltrate them all which he has done rather well. False doctrines have been introduced that we are never allowed to question, and the King James Bible and King James himself are seen as something as pure as God Himself.
A group of men gathered together and decided what books were of God and what were not. They decided that they were going to act as and replaced the Holy Spirit and discern what books were of God and what ones you were going to read. All sacred manuscripts of great value such as the book of Jasher, book of Enoch, etc., were never allowed into the official King James government approved Bible. They were never allowed in because men decided for you that they were not of God. The book of Enoch was suddenly outlawed and all copies were burned and people quoting from it were put to death as hertics of the church.
While not allowing sacred manuscripts into the Bible and calling them "uninspired", they were replaced in the Bible with endless self-absorbed commentaries of Paul who himself has been surrounded by controversy from day one! I will go into more deatail in Part 2 of this article. We are never allowed to think for ourselves and to discern all truth through the Holy Spirit. We are told what to read and what to think by the churches and the writings of Paul. Now to top it off, we have all been lied to about salvation.
What I am going to do here is to break this extensive article into parts. In the first part here, I will expose the false interpretation of salvation and show you what the churches do not want you to know, and how they themselves have built a falseinterpretation on sinking sand. Some of this material may shock you to the core. This is not going to be warm and fuzzy, this is going to be disturbing as you realize that you have been lied to by the mind controlling institutionalized churches of the modern day Pharisees.
As you go down the rabbit hole you have to decide whether or not you want to follow Jesus or the church. You must decide if you want to stay in the warm and fuzzy religious Matrix, or pick up your cross and follow Jesus Christ our true God and Savour. As you read on, please do not ask your local pastor if this is of God. Instead go into your room, shut the door, and pray to God for discernment. Let Him alone lead you to all truth and not some institutionalized church committee. Now let the journey begin!
Unplugging From the Matrix- True salvation
What we have been told in the churches is that none of us is saved until we ask for salvation. They say that salvation is a "free gift" that is not of works, yet we through are own works of asking, we receive. Does this sound logical to you? A free gift is is free. If you have to ask for it, then it is not free. Let us now explore what the Apostle John has to say about the subject of salvation and the false church doctrine of being Born Again.
Joh 3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
Joh 3:2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him."
Nicodemus here recognizes that Jesus is special so he asks Him if He is a teacher from God but fails to realize that Jesus is God in the flesh.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Here we have been taught that one needs to ask for salvation before they cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus does not tell Nicodemus to ask for salvation. He says he must be born into the Kingdom of God. The original language regarding the phrase Born Again actually says, Born from Above.
Born AGAIN
G509
ἄνωθεν
anōthen
an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.
More at: http://stargods.org/ChurchMythsBornAgain.htm
Church Myths - Born Again?
Church Myths - Born Again?
O.K. I'll bite.
I can never understand those who believe the bible is the literal word of god, it so patently can't be. Even if you accept and believe in the blble, the fact has been translated and interpreted innumerable times must mean it has been changed to suit the perspectives if the times. Disagreeing with the accepted viewpoint of the time was downright bad for the health.
The arguement that god has influenced each translator etc etc is so ridiculous and absurd it's almost impossible to counter when posited by a true believer.
On the other hand Satan was a creation of the medeival church as they tried to combat pagan beliefs-terror and superstition has always been a good way to curb dissension and justify intolerance of other faiths.
To believe satan is behind versions of the bible to lure people away from the true meaning etc etc is just as absurd as believing the bible is the true word of god in the first place.
After Henry V111 published the first English bible he gave serious thought to recalling it as people were coming bto blows as they argued about what was actually meant. I'm right, you're wrong, thump, has been a traditional christian arguement for many years.
I don't mind what people choose to believe, if they just kept their faith to themselves and stopped trying to get us all to believe as they do the world would be a better place.
God save us from religon.
I can never understand those who believe the bible is the literal word of god, it so patently can't be. Even if you accept and believe in the blble, the fact has been translated and interpreted innumerable times must mean it has been changed to suit the perspectives if the times. Disagreeing with the accepted viewpoint of the time was downright bad for the health.
The arguement that god has influenced each translator etc etc is so ridiculous and absurd it's almost impossible to counter when posited by a true believer.
On the other hand Satan was a creation of the medeival church as they tried to combat pagan beliefs-terror and superstition has always been a good way to curb dissension and justify intolerance of other faiths.
To believe satan is behind versions of the bible to lure people away from the true meaning etc etc is just as absurd as believing the bible is the true word of god in the first place.
After Henry V111 published the first English bible he gave serious thought to recalling it as people were coming bto blows as they argued about what was actually meant. I'm right, you're wrong, thump, has been a traditional christian arguement for many years.
I don't mind what people choose to believe, if they just kept their faith to themselves and stopped trying to get us all to believe as they do the world would be a better place.
God save us from religon.
Church Myths - Born Again?
Satan is a non existent being borrowed from the Mesopotamians. His the personification of all that is evil. Thus he is a great scapegoat for human misbehaviour: The Devil made me do it., Unfortunately this takes the responsibility for misbehaviour away from the one responsible and places it elsewhere.
Secondly the Bible is ot the literal word of God. It becomes for Christians the "word of God" by virtue of the fact that God speaks to us through the very human words of the Bible not by virtue of its authorship.
I will deal with te NT though what I am about to say applies to both. Mark being the first Gospel written, authorship unknown, was the evangelists attempt to grasp the meaning of Jesus for his time and place. It was not written as literal history. In fact they really did not understand the notion of written history. They were trying to explain their experiences of the Risen Lord in an attempt to come to grips with the meaning of Jesus for that time and place. What the authors wrote was their and the churches understanding of the meaning of Jesus for that time. This changed somewhat with each evangelist and the audience for which he was writing.
None of this is an attempt at deception. This is how religious documents were created. Each presents the truth as they understand it.
Having said that there is no reason why some of our latest religious documents could not be considered to be part of the scriptures.
There is also in the opening post a misunderstanding of the counsels that produced the Bible. As today in the church we accept that the Holy Spirit speaks through individual Christians after much prayer and meditation. So during the counsels decisions were made based on that faith in the Holy Spirit. They left many documents out because it was felt that they did not at that time present the gospel message as it was intended by Jesus.. In fact if the Gospel of Thomas had been known at that time it probably would have been included.
One can play all the games they want with the oounsels. They followed the process of the earliest church in identifying the writings that they felf best presented the life and message of Jesus.
Even now, churches continue the practise both collectively and individually as they accept the earliest tradition that the Holy Spirit works through Christians. Some complain that some of the present writiers are writing contrary to scripture when in fact they are doing the same thing as the evangelists were doing; trying to grasp the meaning of Jesus for their time and place as well as their audience.
Marcus Borg, John D. Crossan, Chris Diamon, d. Gordon, John Spong.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Secondly the Bible is ot the literal word of God. It becomes for Christians the "word of God" by virtue of the fact that God speaks to us through the very human words of the Bible not by virtue of its authorship.
I will deal with te NT though what I am about to say applies to both. Mark being the first Gospel written, authorship unknown, was the evangelists attempt to grasp the meaning of Jesus for his time and place. It was not written as literal history. In fact they really did not understand the notion of written history. They were trying to explain their experiences of the Risen Lord in an attempt to come to grips with the meaning of Jesus for that time and place. What the authors wrote was their and the churches understanding of the meaning of Jesus for that time. This changed somewhat with each evangelist and the audience for which he was writing.
None of this is an attempt at deception. This is how religious documents were created. Each presents the truth as they understand it.
Having said that there is no reason why some of our latest religious documents could not be considered to be part of the scriptures.
There is also in the opening post a misunderstanding of the counsels that produced the Bible. As today in the church we accept that the Holy Spirit speaks through individual Christians after much prayer and meditation. So during the counsels decisions were made based on that faith in the Holy Spirit. They left many documents out because it was felt that they did not at that time present the gospel message as it was intended by Jesus.. In fact if the Gospel of Thomas had been known at that time it probably would have been included.
One can play all the games they want with the oounsels. They followed the process of the earliest church in identifying the writings that they felf best presented the life and message of Jesus.
Even now, churches continue the practise both collectively and individually as they accept the earliest tradition that the Holy Spirit works through Christians. Some complain that some of the present writiers are writing contrary to scripture when in fact they are doing the same thing as the evangelists were doing; trying to grasp the meaning of Jesus for their time and place as well as their audience.
Marcus Borg, John D. Crossan, Chris Diamon, d. Gordon, John Spong.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Church Myths - Born Again?
Dear God save me from the theologians!
You guys arent any better than the people you're calling frauds! You say what is already written cant be true, yet you yourselves cant come up with anything better!
I suggest this to you, if you want to know the truth, why dont you just ask God yourself? Afraid He might answer?
Look to the people who knew Him first. Then you might just get a better grasp of who it is you're dealing with.
Enoch is a book that Christ Himself quoted from, yet it was not included in our bible.
I think there are many works missing. But then, God gave me the curiosity to go looking for them.
Theorists are the bane of all intellectual quests, for they find it impossible to temper knowledge with wisdom.
You guys arent any better than the people you're calling frauds! You say what is already written cant be true, yet you yourselves cant come up with anything better!
I suggest this to you, if you want to know the truth, why dont you just ask God yourself? Afraid He might answer?
Look to the people who knew Him first. Then you might just get a better grasp of who it is you're dealing with.
Enoch is a book that Christ Himself quoted from, yet it was not included in our bible.
I think there are many works missing. But then, God gave me the curiosity to go looking for them.
Theorists are the bane of all intellectual quests, for they find it impossible to temper knowledge with wisdom.
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
Church Myths - Born Again?
Raven :-6
Fortunately the theologians generally rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit in their work.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Fortunately the theologians generally rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit in their work.
Shalom
Ted :-6
Church Myths - Born Again?
I was in a room full of ministers and theologians once. We were discussing church growth. We had all kinds of programs and plans. Most of what we were discussing had been tried at least once before but the denomination was still experiencing a net decline in numbers. I asked if we shouldn’t be relying on the Holy Spirit more. They looked at me like I was spoiled child screaming during communion. The many times published, distinguished and honored moderator pretended he didn’t hear me and moved on to the next subject.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Church Myths - Born Again?
Clint:-6
There's one in every crowd.
Shalom
Ted:-6
There's one in every crowd.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Church Myths - Born Again?
Ted wrote: Clint:-6
There's one in every crowd.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Send me Lord.
There's one in every crowd.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Send me Lord.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Church Myths - Born Again?
"Theorists are the bane of all intellectual quests, for they find it impossible to temper knowledge with wisdom.
A statement that I cannot support. For without the theorists and their wisdom we would not have the Bibles that we have today. Nor would we have an ever growing understanding of the early church that we have today.
I certainly have never said that anything written can't be true. That does not reflect my opinion either.
Unfortunately we don't have access to the people that knew Him first. Though it would certainly be helpful.
I guess the early church through the counsel did not consider Enoch accurate enough to include in the canon of Scripture. None of those folks around to ask now.
There were many works left out for a variety of reasons but modern theologians are in man cases taking a second look at them.
No doubt the world is unfolding as it should.
Shalom
Ted:-6
A statement that I cannot support. For without the theorists and their wisdom we would not have the Bibles that we have today. Nor would we have an ever growing understanding of the early church that we have today.
I certainly have never said that anything written can't be true. That does not reflect my opinion either.
Unfortunately we don't have access to the people that knew Him first. Though it would certainly be helpful.
I guess the early church through the counsel did not consider Enoch accurate enough to include in the canon of Scripture. None of those folks around to ask now.
There were many works left out for a variety of reasons but modern theologians are in man cases taking a second look at them.
No doubt the world is unfolding as it should.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Church Myths - Born Again?
posted by ted
There is also in the opening post a misunderstanding of the counsels that produced the Bible. As today in the church we accept that the Holy Spirit speaks through individual Christians after much prayer and meditation. So during the counsels decisions were made based on that faith in the Holy Spirit. They left many documents out because it was felt that they did not at that time present the gospel message as it was intended by Jesus.. In fact if the Gospel of Thomas had been known at that time it probably would have been included.
One can play all the games they want with the oounsels. They followed the process of the earliest church in identifying the writings that they felf best presented the life and message of Jesus.
Which church are you talking about? They selected the texts that best gave them control and removed any that conflicted with what they wanted taught. They decided what the message of JC was going to be not what best reflected his life and message. It wasn't until the protestant reformation and the invention of the printing press that the grip of the roman catholic church was broken. Even then that was more about who should rule on earth-kings or priests both manipulated the people for their own ends.
nowadays television evangelists do the same kind of thing peddling their own brand of mythology carefully selecting the bits that suit their own world view to an audience that seems to have lost the ability to think for themselves and to be told what to believe. It's ironic that most TV evengelists of that type are protestant.
There is also in the opening post a misunderstanding of the counsels that produced the Bible. As today in the church we accept that the Holy Spirit speaks through individual Christians after much prayer and meditation. So during the counsels decisions were made based on that faith in the Holy Spirit. They left many documents out because it was felt that they did not at that time present the gospel message as it was intended by Jesus.. In fact if the Gospel of Thomas had been known at that time it probably would have been included.
One can play all the games they want with the oounsels. They followed the process of the earliest church in identifying the writings that they felf best presented the life and message of Jesus.
Which church are you talking about? They selected the texts that best gave them control and removed any that conflicted with what they wanted taught. They decided what the message of JC was going to be not what best reflected his life and message. It wasn't until the protestant reformation and the invention of the printing press that the grip of the roman catholic church was broken. Even then that was more about who should rule on earth-kings or priests both manipulated the people for their own ends.
nowadays television evangelists do the same kind of thing peddling their own brand of mythology carefully selecting the bits that suit their own world view to an audience that seems to have lost the ability to think for themselves and to be told what to believe. It's ironic that most TV evengelists of that type are protestant.
Church Myths - Born Again?
gmc:-6
I cannot agree with your view of why the counsels chose a particular set of writings. Their attempt was to choose the writings that best expressed what the early church had come bo believe about Yeshua of Nazareth.
Which church? The one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that has existed since the creation of the church by our Lord. The protestant reformation gave us the heresy of literalism and fundamentalism. The Protestant Reformation was an error. Martin Luther did not want to create a new religion but only wanted to reform the one that he believed in. Unfortunately that is not how history progressed.
The church of Rome deliberately misread the Bible and mislead folks into thinking that Jesus appointed Peter to be the leader of the church. That is another no-no that exists into today.
Luther was of course not the best example of a Christian. He was extremely anti-semitic and was not above using the inquisition to get rid of his opposition. John Calvin followed the same road with his opponents.
Shalom
jTed
I cannot agree with your view of why the counsels chose a particular set of writings. Their attempt was to choose the writings that best expressed what the early church had come bo believe about Yeshua of Nazareth.
Which church? The one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that has existed since the creation of the church by our Lord. The protestant reformation gave us the heresy of literalism and fundamentalism. The Protestant Reformation was an error. Martin Luther did not want to create a new religion but only wanted to reform the one that he believed in. Unfortunately that is not how history progressed.
The church of Rome deliberately misread the Bible and mislead folks into thinking that Jesus appointed Peter to be the leader of the church. That is another no-no that exists into today.
Luther was of course not the best example of a Christian. He was extremely anti-semitic and was not above using the inquisition to get rid of his opposition. John Calvin followed the same road with his opponents.
Shalom
jTed
Church Myths - Born Again?
posted by ted
I cannot agree with your view of why the counsels chose a particular set of writings. Their attempt was to choose the writings that best expressed what the early church had come bo believe about Yeshua of Nazareth.
The church of Rome deliberately misread the Bible and mislead folks into thinking that Jesus appointed Peter to be the leader of the church. That is another no-no that exists into today.
Kind of contradict yourself there do you not?
That's what I mean. They wanted control and to tell people what to believe rather than leave them to make up their own minds by allowing them access to scriptures that put a different point of view systematically destroying anything that was different. Paul was a Roman and altered things to make it more palatable to romans-I sometimes wonder how popular christianity would have become of circumcision was mandatory and paul had not been such a mysoginist.
The protestant reformation was incredibly important-if man is equal in heaven then why not on earth is the basis for questioning the social order. Religon and politics with economics thrown in for good measure.
True Luther and Calvin were no saints but what fundamentalist is?
I must admit a certain bias. I am not a christian and find the whole thing unbelieveable, literally. I do believe JC did exist, modern archeologyand science has gone a long way to explain some of the events described in the bible in a manner that makes sense but with JC you either believe he was the son of god or you don't. I don't and if he was his message has been perverted.
I cannot agree with your view of why the counsels chose a particular set of writings. Their attempt was to choose the writings that best expressed what the early church had come bo believe about Yeshua of Nazareth.
The church of Rome deliberately misread the Bible and mislead folks into thinking that Jesus appointed Peter to be the leader of the church. That is another no-no that exists into today.
Kind of contradict yourself there do you not?
That's what I mean. They wanted control and to tell people what to believe rather than leave them to make up their own minds by allowing them access to scriptures that put a different point of view systematically destroying anything that was different. Paul was a Roman and altered things to make it more palatable to romans-I sometimes wonder how popular christianity would have become of circumcision was mandatory and paul had not been such a mysoginist.
The protestant reformation was incredibly important-if man is equal in heaven then why not on earth is the basis for questioning the social order. Religon and politics with economics thrown in for good measure.
True Luther and Calvin were no saints but what fundamentalist is?
I must admit a certain bias. I am not a christian and find the whole thing unbelieveable, literally. I do believe JC did exist, modern archeologyand science has gone a long way to explain some of the events described in the bible in a manner that makes sense but with JC you either believe he was the son of god or you don't. I don't and if he was his message has been perverted.
Church Myths - Born Again?
:-3
My recent experiences of church tell me that church leaders organise a church for their own benefit, justifying their decisions, that hoi polloi must obey, by cherry-picking from the bible. Note that hoi polloi must not cherry-pick from the bible -- that would be cheeky.:-5
My recent experiences of church tell me that church leaders organise a church for their own benefit, justifying their decisions, that hoi polloi must obey, by cherry-picking from the bible. Note that hoi polloi must not cherry-pick from the bible -- that would be cheeky.:-5
Church Myths - Born Again?
gmc:-6
I see no contradiction. I am not talking about the Roman Catholic Church.
As I said before the intent of the counsels was to publish what most closely represetned the Message of Yeshua of Nazareth. There was and is not attempt at control; at least not within the mainline churches. If anyone sees that there they are not looking closely enough.
gimli3:-6
I would suggest a little research on church history, all of it and a little better understanding of the Bible.
What is important in Christianity is not dogma and doctrine but living in a loving transforming relationship with the risen Christ.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I see no contradiction. I am not talking about the Roman Catholic Church.
As I said before the intent of the counsels was to publish what most closely represetned the Message of Yeshua of Nazareth. There was and is not attempt at control; at least not within the mainline churches. If anyone sees that there they are not looking closely enough.
gimli3:-6
I would suggest a little research on church history, all of it and a little better understanding of the Bible.
What is important in Christianity is not dogma and doctrine but living in a loving transforming relationship with the risen Christ.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Church Myths - Born Again?
I went back to church after 9/11 after being absent for about a year and half or so. This women who was the paster came to my apartment which was a mile or so up my street, the SAT. After. Well I was relucant at first. I was on some heavy medication for depression. well thats what the doctors thought I had at first. But I felt compelled to go. so I did. Went their for about three months or so. I ment my husband their . and sfter dating a week. I was pregnant with our son Jacob. I had a previous relationship which had three othere kids. Anyway it not good. i only went their because I needed to be with people.
Anyway the church was about four hours long. And I was exhausted after the day was over. This was a born again christian church. Anyway I was already a born again before that. I never really got into it as much as I should. anyway when I got pregnat in Dec . The paster asked doug and I to leave because he was at that point starting to live with me off and on. Then of corse their was his adoptive mom who couldn't bear to see her servant leave. Doug help her hand and foot. she was very ill. and at the time I didn't undeerstand that she needed him to. So I left the church, and demaded doug to leave to. well he did and he came to live with me full time, and then we moved across town.
One night we got into a big fight and cops were involed. after that we didn't see each othere for the rest of the time I was pregnant with Jacob. In Jan. 2003 doug came home and we began are life together. when we were seperated I went to another church in our community. It was a nice church. They didn't seem to condum you for things. Like being prefgnant out of wedlock. But that sooned changed. He preached nice, he included you. But if you were on anykind of help., thats when condumation came. Then people didn't care, because who didn't have the money to help. with a church van or stuff like that. They got tired and complained that they had to pick you up all the time. I wasn't memeber so when Doug came home, and since he does not have a drivers liesens. he had to stay with me. a month later were married. The paster refused to marry us. But an x friends husband did since he was a justice of the peace,
He through me out when he found out I was back living with my husband/boyfriend at the time.
So I am burned out. We eneded up back at the church we started and I hated it. The pasters wife says it's ok for a man to hit his wife. She said you have to mans servant. I left again. I since never returned.
Doug and I don't go to church. we get daily readings on the net. we are assioated to a new church further away from our house. We go from time to time. But we have to ingling to go every Sunday right now. But has for churches, they have clickes, they have their groups and if you don't see eye to eye with them. It's time for you leave. We were called all the time on the phone saying we are giong to burn in hell if we don't get married. ONLY WHEN I WAS READY TO, AND GOD SPOKE TO ME.
Anyway the church was about four hours long. And I was exhausted after the day was over. This was a born again christian church. Anyway I was already a born again before that. I never really got into it as much as I should. anyway when I got pregnat in Dec . The paster asked doug and I to leave because he was at that point starting to live with me off and on. Then of corse their was his adoptive mom who couldn't bear to see her servant leave. Doug help her hand and foot. she was very ill. and at the time I didn't undeerstand that she needed him to. So I left the church, and demaded doug to leave to. well he did and he came to live with me full time, and then we moved across town.
One night we got into a big fight and cops were involed. after that we didn't see each othere for the rest of the time I was pregnant with Jacob. In Jan. 2003 doug came home and we began are life together. when we were seperated I went to another church in our community. It was a nice church. They didn't seem to condum you for things. Like being prefgnant out of wedlock. But that sooned changed. He preached nice, he included you. But if you were on anykind of help., thats when condumation came. Then people didn't care, because who didn't have the money to help. with a church van or stuff like that. They got tired and complained that they had to pick you up all the time. I wasn't memeber so when Doug came home, and since he does not have a drivers liesens. he had to stay with me. a month later were married. The paster refused to marry us. But an x friends husband did since he was a justice of the peace,
He through me out when he found out I was back living with my husband/boyfriend at the time.
So I am burned out. We eneded up back at the church we started and I hated it. The pasters wife says it's ok for a man to hit his wife. She said you have to mans servant. I left again. I since never returned.
Doug and I don't go to church. we get daily readings on the net. we are assioated to a new church further away from our house. We go from time to time. But we have to ingling to go every Sunday right now. But has for churches, they have clickes, they have their groups and if you don't see eye to eye with them. It's time for you leave. We were called all the time on the phone saying we are giong to burn in hell if we don't get married. ONLY WHEN I WAS READY TO, AND GOD SPOKE TO ME.
kmhowe
Church Myths - Born Again?
Wow kmhowe72! Did you ever get hooked up with the wrong bunch of people. I know from personal experience that you did not experience the love and mercy you will find in many “born again†congregations. If you had come through the doors of many congregations I'm aware of, you would be getting calls of encouragement and offers of prayer and counsel.
I had forgotten that there are “churches†that still judge and treat people so harshly. They can’t know the heart of Jesus when they do that. In Matt. 18 Jesus tells us how valuable each of us are to him. He makes it very clear that the one who strays is to be sought after and restored. He gives a three step process that ends in treating the one who refuses help like a Tax Collector and a Gentile. Jesus spent much time with the Tax Collectors and the Gentiles reaching out to them and eating at their table. He goes on to say that we forgive not seven times but seventy times seven times. He ends the chapter with an example of what happens to a man who won't forgive after he has been forgiven.
Please don’t give up. Read Matthew 18 until you have an understanding of it, then go find a congregation that sees it as a chapter of love and restoration. You won’t be sorry you did.
I had forgotten that there are “churches†that still judge and treat people so harshly. They can’t know the heart of Jesus when they do that. In Matt. 18 Jesus tells us how valuable each of us are to him. He makes it very clear that the one who strays is to be sought after and restored. He gives a three step process that ends in treating the one who refuses help like a Tax Collector and a Gentile. Jesus spent much time with the Tax Collectors and the Gentiles reaching out to them and eating at their table. He goes on to say that we forgive not seven times but seventy times seven times. He ends the chapter with an example of what happens to a man who won't forgive after he has been forgiven.
Please don’t give up. Read Matthew 18 until you have an understanding of it, then go find a congregation that sees it as a chapter of love and restoration. You won’t be sorry you did.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Church Myths - Born Again?
No wonder I am studying Buddhism! ....YOU take responsibilty for your life and your actions...you are the only one that can change your life. The Buddhas writings are there for guidance....there is no worship only respect.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
Church Myths - Born Again?
im a bit confused hun, are you knocking the cops for standing by you or knocking your choice of church for not ??????
Church Myths - Born Again?
No I am not knocking the cops. I am saying that if a church believes hitting a women or even a man. I am saying I would not possibly go to that church. Churches are supose to mind their own business. When you don't ask for it.
kmhowe
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Runner4thePrize
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:02 am
Church Myths - Born Again?
This subject has been at the forefront of my studies for some time now. The idea that a group of men got together and "decided" what books were or were not part of God's Word is incredible arrogance on their part.
The apostles were instructed to preach the GOSPEL from the time the Spirit descended upon them, and keep preaching it until the 7th trump, the return of Jesus Christ. The Apostles were all "in Christ" so mankind should receive their gospel, (good news) message. Today one must look hard and long for anyone who stands for and teaches the New Birth according to Jesus. (John 3:1 thru 6)
Most have replaced it with a doctrine whose origins can be attributed to that same group of men who I mentioned above, and this doctrine of man cannot be found anywhere in scriptures. The New Birth has all but been thrown out with the garbage in just about all "christian" denominations.
I believe that one cannot find Jesus in religion as religions are institutions of men of this world, and not of God. That is why there are thousands of them, (the broad way) and only one way (the narrow way) according to Jesus.
The apostles were instructed to preach the GOSPEL from the time the Spirit descended upon them, and keep preaching it until the 7th trump, the return of Jesus Christ. The Apostles were all "in Christ" so mankind should receive their gospel, (good news) message. Today one must look hard and long for anyone who stands for and teaches the New Birth according to Jesus. (John 3:1 thru 6)
Most have replaced it with a doctrine whose origins can be attributed to that same group of men who I mentioned above, and this doctrine of man cannot be found anywhere in scriptures. The New Birth has all but been thrown out with the garbage in just about all "christian" denominations.
I believe that one cannot find Jesus in religion as religions are institutions of men of this world, and not of God. That is why there are thousands of them, (the broad way) and only one way (the narrow way) according to Jesus.
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Teach4life
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:46 pm
Church Myths - Born Again?
Religion is made of man..Jesus did establish religion. He established so much more. It is divine love that Jesus represents.....not condemnation.
The gift of Salvation is a gift that is free to all......YOU have to recieve it.
The gift of Salvation is a gift that is free to all......YOU have to recieve it.
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Runner4thePrize
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:02 am
Church Myths - Born Again?
Actually in my Bible one has to believe it and obey it in order to be Born Again. There is nothing in there commanding me to believe and/or receive. I think you are referring to that doctrine of "inviting Jesus into your heart" in order to be saved. That teaching is very prevalent nowadays, but you will not find a word in scripture commanding one to just receive or invite. That is not what Jesus told Nicodemus he must do in order to be Born Again.
Church Myths - Born Again?
Runner:-6
Whether or not you like it that is precisely how the canon of scripture was founded. It was founded by a groups of folks mostly bishops and priests in the early church councils. They examined hundreds of documents before they decided on the ones we now have. No amount of denial can change that.
Somewhere around 367 Canon of the New Testament slowly collected and confirmed. Books recognized as authoritative by Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, in the East and the Council of Carthage in the west. "Christian History Time Line" Rose Publishing.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Whether or not you like it that is precisely how the canon of scripture was founded. It was founded by a groups of folks mostly bishops and priests in the early church councils. They examined hundreds of documents before they decided on the ones we now have. No amount of denial can change that.
Somewhere around 367 Canon of the New Testament slowly collected and confirmed. Books recognized as authoritative by Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, in the East and the Council of Carthage in the west. "Christian History Time Line" Rose Publishing.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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Runner4thePrize
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:02 am
Church Myths - Born Again?
Ted & Teacher4:
“Whether or not you like it that is precisely how the canon of scripture was founded. It was founded by a groups of folks mostly bishops and priests in the early church councils. They examined hundreds of documents before they decided on the ones we now have. No amount of denial can change that.â€
That statement is exactly true! History bears up this statement. People take issue with what version, what bible, what religion, what scripture….. and on and on it goes.
The question should be, Who gave those men the authority to decide what was canon and what was not?
Books recognized as authoritative by Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, in the East and the Council of Carthage in the west. "Christian History Time Line" Rose Publishing.
Concerning the work that these men did, we would have to examine what some of that same scripture, that same canon and the prophecy concerning it past, present, & future said about the whole issue.
The first question we must answer is what “church†were these guys representing? You have answered that question yourself without realizing it. (See underlined above) So Jesus` authority does not take precedent over their authority according to what you have written here.
The next question is “what happened to the Church Jesus and the Apostles founded between Matthew 16:18 & 19 and the year 367 AD?
Lastly, how do we determine if Jesus founded “religion†as opposed to what scripture says concerning His (Jesus) Church? Acts 26:5, Galatians 1:13 & 14, James 1:26 & 27 are the only times the word “religion†is even mentioned in scripture and in each of those verses the writer is talking specifically about the “religion†of the Jews and Not about the Church of Jesus Christ. .
G2356 θρησκεία thrēskeia thrace-ki'-ah From a derivative of G2357; ceremonial observance: - religion, worshipping.
G2357 θρῆσκος thrēskos thrace'-kos Probably from the base of G2360; ceremonious in worship (as demonstrative), that is, pious: - religious.
--Jam 1:27 Pure2513 religion2356 and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (Strong's numbered concordance)
There in James we find the scriptural definition for this word “religion†and it has nothing to do with any particular dogma, or church of the world. Obviously the “religion†of the Jews after Christ were still stuck on ceremony and the “letter of the law†mentality and reject the Doctrine of Christ and the Apostles. The definitions above truly illustrate the religions of the world.
Jesus did not start a “religion,†He built a (singular) Church.
“Whether or not you like it that is precisely how the canon of scripture was founded. It was founded by a groups of folks mostly bishops and priests in the early church councils. They examined hundreds of documents before they decided on the ones we now have. No amount of denial can change that.â€
That statement is exactly true! History bears up this statement. People take issue with what version, what bible, what religion, what scripture….. and on and on it goes.
The question should be, Who gave those men the authority to decide what was canon and what was not?
Books recognized as authoritative by Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, in the East and the Council of Carthage in the west. "Christian History Time Line" Rose Publishing.
Concerning the work that these men did, we would have to examine what some of that same scripture, that same canon and the prophecy concerning it past, present, & future said about the whole issue.
The first question we must answer is what “church†were these guys representing? You have answered that question yourself without realizing it. (See underlined above) So Jesus` authority does not take precedent over their authority according to what you have written here.
The next question is “what happened to the Church Jesus and the Apostles founded between Matthew 16:18 & 19 and the year 367 AD?
Lastly, how do we determine if Jesus founded “religion†as opposed to what scripture says concerning His (Jesus) Church? Acts 26:5, Galatians 1:13 & 14, James 1:26 & 27 are the only times the word “religion†is even mentioned in scripture and in each of those verses the writer is talking specifically about the “religion†of the Jews and Not about the Church of Jesus Christ. .
G2356 θρησκεία thrēskeia thrace-ki'-ah From a derivative of G2357; ceremonial observance: - religion, worshipping.
G2357 θρῆσκος thrēskos thrace'-kos Probably from the base of G2360; ceremonious in worship (as demonstrative), that is, pious: - religious.
--Jam 1:27 Pure2513 religion2356 and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (Strong's numbered concordance)
There in James we find the scriptural definition for this word “religion†and it has nothing to do with any particular dogma, or church of the world. Obviously the “religion†of the Jews after Christ were still stuck on ceremony and the “letter of the law†mentality and reject the Doctrine of Christ and the Apostles. The definitions above truly illustrate the religions of the world.
Jesus did not start a “religion,†He built a (singular) Church.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Church Myths - Born Again?
Runner4thePrize@hotmail. wrote: This subject has been at the forefront of my studies for some time now. The idea that a group of men got together and "decided" what books were or were not part of God's Word is incredible arrogance on their part.
The apostles were instructed to preach the GOSPEL from the time the Spirit descended upon them, and keep preaching it until the 7th trump, the return of Jesus Christ. The Apostles were all "in Christ" so mankind should receive their gospel, (good news) message. Today one must look hard and long for anyone who stands for and teaches the New Birth according to Jesus. (John 3:1 thru 6)
Most have replaced it with a doctrine whose origins can be attributed to that same group of men who I mentioned above, and this doctrine of man cannot be found anywhere in scriptures. The New Birth has all but been thrown out with the garbage in just about all "christian" denominations.
The doctrine originated with the men who decided what would go into the Bible, yet they didn't put it in the Bible, yet that doctrine is what most [preachers, I assume] have used to replace the New Birth birth, which they put in the Bible?
Forgive me, Runner, but I got dizzy just typing this out.
The apostles were instructed to preach the GOSPEL from the time the Spirit descended upon them, and keep preaching it until the 7th trump, the return of Jesus Christ. The Apostles were all "in Christ" so mankind should receive their gospel, (good news) message. Today one must look hard and long for anyone who stands for and teaches the New Birth according to Jesus. (John 3:1 thru 6)
Most have replaced it with a doctrine whose origins can be attributed to that same group of men who I mentioned above, and this doctrine of man cannot be found anywhere in scriptures. The New Birth has all but been thrown out with the garbage in just about all "christian" denominations.
The doctrine originated with the men who decided what would go into the Bible, yet they didn't put it in the Bible, yet that doctrine is what most [preachers, I assume] have used to replace the New Birth birth, which they put in the Bible?
Forgive me, Runner, but I got dizzy just typing this out.
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Runner4thePrize
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:02 am
Church Myths - Born Again?
They did not put it in the Bible, it was already IN the New Testament books that God allowed by His Grace for us to read.
Remember, God allowed Babylon to conquer Israel even though Babylon itself was ungodly (notice I did not say evil.) :yh_youkid
Remember, God allowed Babylon to conquer Israel even though Babylon itself was ungodly (notice I did not say evil.) :yh_youkid
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Church Myths - Born Again?
Runner4thePrize@hotmail. wrote: They did not put it in the Bible, it was already IN the New Testament books that God allowed by His Grace for us to read.
Remember, God allowed Babylon to conquer Israel even though Babylon itself was ungodly (notice I did not say evil.) :yh_youkidStill confused, but you & I would probably have to have long conversations and study for me to get what you mean. I'm curious, but just not that interested, so I'll drop it.
Thanks anyway. :-6
Remember, God allowed Babylon to conquer Israel even though Babylon itself was ungodly (notice I did not say evil.) :yh_youkidStill confused, but you & I would probably have to have long conversations and study for me to get what you mean. I'm curious, but just not that interested, so I'll drop it.
Thanks anyway. :-6
Church Myths - Born Again?
Runner:-6
The church that gave us the sacred scriptures was the one founded by Jesus.
Secondly there are some 400 000 variations of the New Testament within the ancient manuscripts. Which ones are or were correct. In fact, you should know this, we do not even have access to the autographs. What we have is acess to copies of copies of copies of copies that have been changed over the millenia as evidenced the large number of variations.
At any rate you are entitles to your opinion just as I am along with some 22 000 other Christian denominations around the world.
I am not the least bit interested in the word games.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The church that gave us the sacred scriptures was the one founded by Jesus.
Secondly there are some 400 000 variations of the New Testament within the ancient manuscripts. Which ones are or were correct. In fact, you should know this, we do not even have access to the autographs. What we have is acess to copies of copies of copies of copies that have been changed over the millenia as evidenced the large number of variations.
At any rate you are entitles to your opinion just as I am along with some 22 000 other Christian denominations around the world.
I am not the least bit interested in the word games.
Shalom
Ted:-6