City Considering Reverting to Town.

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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

The city of Martinsville, Virginia is studying and seriously considering reverting to town status. There have been several cities in Virginia that have reverted to town status in past decades, the majority to the detriment of the surrounding county. A July 1, 2005 article "City to town reversion explained" and a December 7, 2005 article "Constitutional officers cautious on reversion" can be found at http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com under "Archive."

Local residents have voiced some of their concerns at:

http://martinsvillemedia.com/forum/show ... php?t=4125

http://martinsvillemedia.com/forum/show ... php?t=4425

Has any other member been exposed to this? What were the results in your area (good or bad)? :confused:
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Accountable
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by Accountable »

I didn't know there was a real difference between the disignations. I was always confused about the Yankees' use of village, township, etc. when we just had towns. Big towns were cities because they were big.



So there's an official difference? Hm. :thinking:
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SOJOURNER
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by SOJOURNER »

The only thing I knew about townships was they don't pay city taxes!!!!!!!:-6 A big plus for them, a drain on surrounding cities. :-5
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

SnoozeControl wrote: This post is so neocon and I highly object!

Kidding...sorry. :)


STOP IT!! YOU'RE KILLING ME!! :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

SOJOURNER wrote: The only thing I knew about townships was they don't pay city taxes!!!!!!!:-6 A big plus for them, a drain on surrounding cities. :-5


Actually, that's another bone of contention with this proposal in Henry County, where Martinsville is located. If the city reverts to town status, the former city residents will be faced with double taxation, for the town and the county. Currently, city residents only pay city taxes. Some of the politicians are trying to sell it under the guise of "economic development." Translation... someone is looking to line their pockets. At least, that is what some people have said to me.
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Tombstone
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by Tombstone »

Interesting. So is the city council going to vote on this without input or a referendum from the residents?

I know a city is an incroporated entity that can hire a city manager, police dept., fire dept., etc. Within that city, local ordinances can be drawn up that supercede the county's laws. Oh, and of course, they legally can levy local taxes.

A town is usually just a named spot on a map as designated by the county. Everyone depends on county services - which may be miles away.

So around here, the discussion is: Is this town large enough where it needs its "own" services? Are the residents willing to support local services?
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

Tombstone -

Thanks for the interest. Many area residents feel the city fathers are trying to do as you suggest. Luckily, our county officials are trying to be a check to their moves by seeking legislative redress. I've included a link and particulars for a couple of articles that address the "binding vote" idea. Many residents are upset because the city spent $50,000 of tax-payer funds to do a professional study on the issue, when the majority of the people, even prior to a vote, do not support the reversion.

"County: Let city residents decide issue" October 25, 2005 in the Martinsville Bulletin.

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com under "Archive."

"Board tweaks issues: Town status proposal drops 'Martinsville' October 26, 2005 at the same link.
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Tombstone
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by Tombstone »

Thanks for that info. You know, local politics can drive a person mad!



ChiptBeef wrote: Tombstone -

Thanks for the interest. Many area residents feel the city fathers are trying to do as you suggest. Luckily, our county officials are trying to be a check to their moves by seeking legislative redress. I've included a link and particulars for a couple of articles that address the "binding vote" idea. Many residents are upset because the city spent $50,000 of tax-payer funds to do a professional study on the issue, when the majority of the people, even prior to a vote, do not support the reversion.

"County: Let city residents decide issue" October 25, 2005 in the Martinsville Bulletin.

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com under "Archive."

"Board tweaks issues: Town status proposal drops 'Martinsville' October 26, 2005 at the same link.
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

Tombstone wrote: Thanks for that info. You know, local politics can drive a person mad!


I'm not sure who said it first, but it's said that "all politics are local." There is a lot of truth to that. On the other hand, I think it's like another saying; "If you watch the pennies, the dollars will take care of themselves." If we keep tabs on the local politicians, the national-level jokers should follow suit. Maybe that's just wishful thinking. :wah:
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Tombstone
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by Tombstone »

ChiptBeef wrote: I'm not sure who said it first, but it's said that "all politics are local." There is a lot of truth to that. On the other hand, I think it's like another saying; "If you watch the pennies, the dollars will take care of themselves." If we keep tabs on the local politicians, the national-level jokers should follow suit. Maybe that's just wishful thinking. :wah:


Can't argue with that! The best happens at the local level.
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

A Wednesday, January 11, 2006 Martinsville Bulletin article reported the future potential for double-taxation and the lack of support for reversion to town status. "If Martinsville becomes a town in Henry County, town residents also would have to pay county taxes. Former councilman Bruce Dallas and former Mayor L. D. Oakes came to hear the reversion report. "Why don't we have a binding referendum" on the issue? Dallas asked. Oakes indicated that he agreed with Dallas. Dallas said that no city residents he has talked with support reversion."

Http://www.martinsvilledaily.com/Secondstory.htm

Another questionable aspect is that Martinsville city government has studied and discussed reversion, merger and/or consolidation since the 1950's, the 1980's, the 1990's and earlier in the 2000's with no action taken except for consolidating a few county schools. Still, the city government paid $50,000 for another study that the city paid about $300,000 (exact cost unknown) for back in the 1990's. The city government also did a formal study of reversion in 1982 (cost unknown). Redundant government.
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

Luckily for the people of Martinsville and Henry County, Delegate "Danny" Marshall has introduced legislation on January 10th and January 11th of 2006 that would require a vote by special election on the issue by Martinsville residents.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... +ful+HB861
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

A Friday, January 13, 2006 Martinsville Bulletin article "Reversion: Voters to have last word" stated:

"Martinsville voters will have the final say in the decision of reverting to town status if House Bill 861 is approved in the General Assembly. According to Del. Danny Marshall, R-Danville, the bill "was certainly intended" to be binding. Many board members are concerned about the increased tax burden....and possible annexations of contiguous areas if the reversion becomes a reality."

One key concern is the idea of annexation after reversion. If the city reverts to town status, the town could then freely annex portions of Henry County. Many residents feel this is a main focus of current city officials, to annex the most fiscal properous, contiguous properties. It has been alleged that city officials have already produced a map of the areas they intend to annex, should reversion occur. Those with verifiable knowledge of this map have refused to be identified due to fear of retaliation or reprisal.

This article can be viewed at www.martinsvillebulletin.com on 1/13/06 or under the "Archive" section after that.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

ChiptBeef wrote: A Wednesday, January 11, 2006 Martinsville Bulletin article reported the future potential for double-taxation and the lack of support for reversion to town status. "If Martinsville becomes a town in Henry County, town residents also would have to pay county taxes. Former councilman Bruce Dallas and former Mayor L. D. Oakes came to hear the reversion report. "Why don't we have a binding referendum" on the issue? Dallas asked. Oakes indicated that he agreed with Dallas. Dallas said that no city residents he has talked with support reversion."

Http://www.martinsvilledaily.com/Secondstory.htm

Another questionable aspect is that Martinsville city government has studied and discussed reversion, merger and/or consolidation since the 1950's, the 1980's, the 1990's and earlier in the 2000's with no action taken except for consolidating a few county schools. Still, the city government paid $50,000 for another study that the city paid about $300,000 (exact cost unknown) for back in the 1990's. The city government also did a formal study of reversion in 1982 (cost unknown). Redundant government.


The Internet link was incorrect and should read http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/Secondstory.htm
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

The two links in Post #1 at "martinsvilledaily.com" have been deleted from that forum site (reason unknown). I guess someone dosen't want those opinions of local residents heard. The local newspaper supports reversion and has not allowed many, if any, local editorials regarding reversion. I will try to find some and post them in the future on this forum.
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

The following came from the July 6, 2005 Martinsville Bulletin, Page 4-A Opinion Page from a local resident regarding reversion of the city to town status:

"Vote out city's officials"

"I've read more articles about how the city is studying the feasibility of reversion to a town and about how it will effect the county and what measures will be taken to keep those working for the city employed by the town. It seems odd to me that all these plans are costing $50,000 today when the same study was only $25,000 a few months ago. Or has anyone noticed that there were no able individuals within Henry County, much less Martinsville, that were capable of completing such a study? Then there's that matter of salaries! I haven't heard a word as to what the town manager would be paid. would a town manager even hope to be recompensed at half the salary of a city manager?"

"I'd wager a good meal that these thoughts have most certainly been considered and have already been decided by those directly affected. Those so willing to take our status as a city and throw it away to help the county overcome financial hardships would never consider even the slightest decrease in their salary or benefits. And beware those whose moral turpitude often bleeds through their rhetoric of common good for the community. Trust in our leadership has to be laced with carefulness now that any remark could cost you your home or place of business."

Lastly, what would happen to our Economic Development Corporation? Would the $1.6 million dollar budget still be there for them to squander? Perhaps sqaunder is too harsh? But how else would you describe a situation where monies collected as taxes, by the omnipotent tax assessor, are diverted to support a small group of individuals that were chosen to fill vacancies by city managers - lucrative positions that have no success rate to meet, or tax dollar amount to generate, in order to be considered successful. Why, given the amount of money this entity has been allocated to use at its' discretion, with the lack of any standards to meet or monetary goals to achieve, I honestly believe a drunk monkey could be reasonably expected to have at least the same success rate as our current Economic Development Corporation has shown, perhaps even better."

"Martinsville doesn't need a reversion study, it needs an impeachment study. A process that would make the administration directly responsible for its actions and spending habits. Martinsville needs leaders, not losers, to help us make this the kind of community a company would consider for new start or expansion projects. Eminent domain and reversion. Two of the greatest reasons to vote since Nixon and Agnew."

David Ray

Martinsville, Virginia
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

Luckily for the citizens of Martinsville and Henry County, there has been one lone elected city councilman, Terry Roop, who has stood in the gap for area residents so they can have transparency in government. Mr. Roop is a retired Martinsville police chief.

In a June 29, 2005 newspaper article "Roop requests city give reversion data," Mr. Roop called for the city to give reversion information to the public. His opponents said that was premature since the formal study hadn't been completed. The study was completed in November 2005 and area residents have still not been provided all the information in that study. That makes me wonder what the city has to hide.

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com under "Archive"
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

On January 17, 2006, WDBJ7 television station did a story on the proposed reversion of Martinsville to town status. There is a printed article and 1:37 miniue video clip at the internet link below:

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?s=4375298
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

From the Thursday, January 19, 2006 Martinsville Bulletin, Page 2-A:

"Supervisors to hear report on reversion"

By Shawn Hopkins, Bulletin Staff Writer

"The Henry County Board of Supervisors will hear its own commissioned report next week on the possible effects on the county if Martinsville reverts from a city to a town. Supervisors Chairman H.G. Vaughn said that, with the city doing its own study of reversion, it was important for the county to do one too. "We felt it was in the best interest of the citizens of the county to have a study done from the county aspect," he said. Tim Hall said Cranwell has been working on the study for three or four months and it will be presented to the board on January 26, 2006.

"If the city gets into the reversion process there's a lot of negotiations and legal issues that have to taken care of," he said, and the county would want the best possible representation under those circumstances. It is also important for the county to have its own study because the reversion is a controversial issue and the county may have to take over city services and expenses, he said.

According to previous reports, if a reversion would occur, the county's constitutional officers would also serve the city and the county would take over city schools. Vaughn said he thinks the board will probably take a look at both studies and see how they compare."

Note: This article is not available ion the internet as the Martinsville bulletin only posts its front-page articles on their web site. Articles on reversion from the city perspective have been printed on the front page in the past.
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

ChiptBeef wrote: On January 17, 2006, WDBJ7 television station did a story on the proposed reversion of Martinsville to town status. There is a printed article and 1:37 miniue video clip at the internet link below:

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?s=4375298


In the WDBJ7 television report, Martinsville Public Information Officer Matt Hankins said that reversion would be a "win, win situation." The complete reversion study has not been shared with the public, nor has the public had any formal input by an organized meeting regarding reversion, yet the city has already endorsed the reversion to town status. The only thing missing is a formal press release. So much for the will of the people.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

"Reversion bill causes friction in Martinsville" - January 19, 2006, Roanoke Times

"Henry County Administrator Benny Summerlin said he wasn't even aware the city was considering reversion until he read about it in a local newspaper."

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/48961

If the city fathers in Martinsville are so secure in their support of reversion to town status, why are they so opposed to letting the people vote and express their will on the matter? The idea of reversion / merger / consolidation has been studued and debated in this area for over fifty years, on numerous occasions. It has never actually happened due to lack of community support. Many area residents believe it is felt the right people are now in the right places to ramrod this reversion through, as long as they can keep from having a binding referendum. Stay tuned, more to come.....

:guitarist
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ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/49117 - The Roanoke Times January 20, 2006 editorial staff.

"Henry County played a dirty trick... by asking for... a citywide vote... State law allows... a citywide referendum."

I disagree with most of The Roanoke Times editorial, especially since it downplays the fact that this reversion would have a dramatic effect on the residents of Henry County, as well. State law does not allow for a referendum by the residents of the affected county. Henry County leaders are merely trying to protect those they were elected to represent.

State Representative Danny Marshall was elected to represent the citizens of Henry, Halifax and Pittsylvania counties. A select minorty is arguing that since Mr. Marshall's district doesn't actually include the city limits of Martinsville, he had no business to introduce the legislation seeking the binding referendum. That's fantasy. Are all the residents of Henry County, and their elected leaders, now to be designated mere sepctators in the process? Let's not forget, the city of Martinsville is, geographically, located in Henry County, even though not withinin Mr. Marshall's actual district lines.

Again, if the city fathers in Martinsville are so steadfast in their support of reversion, why not just let the people speak at the ballot box? Because they know the history of this debate in the Henry County and Martinsville area, and they know it's not supported by the majority. Now the print media is jumping on that bandwagon by trying to paint Henry County leaders and residents as interlopers. Again, more fantasy.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

Many viewing this thread might think this is a one man crusade. Not so. There are others in that local area that have concerns, as well. The following is an example that proves that as fact:

From the January 20, 2006 Martinsville Bulletin Opinion Page, Page 6-A.

"Citizens need to hear facts"

"I was watching and listening to WDBJ last night and they were quite excited about Martinsville's reversion. The story was reported as though the reversion was a foregone conclusion and that a scurilous few were trying to force the matter to a vote by the public. They had a city spokesperson supporting the decision and claiming the citizens would save $200 to $300 per year in tax savings. And the city might not have to increase the utilities this spring like it did last spring. They also had a Henry County official insist that, should the reversion take place, the county would be forced to raise property taxes to cover the added costs. The gentleman also made it clear the county administration wasn't supportive of the reversion. I haven't read any articles in my beloved Bulletin about the reversion being approved. I hadn't been told of our utilities being increased by 35 percent again. But I'm definitely in favor of letting those affected by this reversion having an opportunity to entertain the facts, become aware of the ramifications and making an informed decision at the voting booth."

David Ray

Martinsville
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TruthSeekerToo
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by TruthSeekerToo »

I found this link off the net while looking for information about city reversion. What a surprise when I hit this current link. I just got my registration complete and was eager to say thanks to "ChiptBeef" for the material here.

I've talked to a lot of people in and around Martinsville that are dead set against this thing the city is pushing. They tried to do the same thing in the 80's and the 90's, and people were just as much against it then. Reports from the 80's event made mention of it being done back in the 50's also.

Anyway, I'll try to contribute what I can as I see stuff locally. It just seems like such a waste of money and energy to keep going over something again and again and again. Hopefully this time we can put it to rest once and for all.
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

Welcome to the Forum Garden, TruthSeekerToo!!!! Looking forward to seeing your input. The more the merrier. :)

The Sunday, January 22, 2006 Martinsville Bulletin front page reports "Mayor opposes reversion." The article states "Martinsville Mayor Joe Cobb said Saturday that he does not support the city becoming a town, but voters ultimately should decide the issue." www.martinsvillebulletin.com

Just a few days ago, the city Public Relations Officer endorsed reversion as a "win-win" proposal. So much for unanimous agreement. Since the mayor has now gone on record supproting the peoples right to decide the issue by voting, hopefully the mayor will urge the passage of pending legislation that would make that a reality. (HR 861)

It's still confusing how all these final decisions and positions have been set before all the information from the study, that was finalized in November 2005, has been presented to the public at large. I guess it's more about politics than the actual facts surrounding the issue. :cool:

http://martinsvillemedia.com/forum/show ... php?t=4799
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TruthSeekerToo
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by TruthSeekerToo »

Henry County Board of Supervisors will receive their final report on reversion by Richard Crandwell of Roanoke, VA in reponse to the city's $50,000 reversion study. That presentation will take place on 1/26/06. Since the Mayor of Martinsville has called for the reversion to be put on hold and endorsed the vote by local citizens on reversion, further debate should be shelved.
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by TruthSeekerToo »

The report from a study conducted by reversion expert Richard "Dick" Cranwell "concludes idea should be abandoned." www.martinsvillebulletin.com (January 27, 2006)

A recent poll shows the majority of those polled locally oppose reversion. 51% of city residents polled oppsed reversion. 49% of county residents polled opposed reversion. Some were still undecided.

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=4417252

At a Thursday meeting, Martinsville City Council rejected Mayor Cobbe's prior claim that voters should decide the reversion issue by calling for opposition to two bills pending before the Virginia General Assembly that would allow for that very thing. House Bill 861 would require a vote by Martinsville residents. House Bill 1497 requires a vote by Henry County residents. Why is the Martinsville City Council so afraid of the voters? Reversion will affect residents in the city and the county. They should all have a right to have their voices heard.

"City opposes bills requiring binding referendums on issue" www.martinsvillebulletin.com (January 27, 2006)
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

"Lawmakers defer bills on reversion: Marshall wants city, county to work it out" as reported by a February 2, 2006, Page 1-A Martinsville Bulletin article.

www.martinsvillebulletin.com

It seems that Rep. Danny Marshall has been convinced by other officials to withdraw his legislation regarding reversion, for now. I just hope the city isn't trying to pull a fast one, since our current state law doesn't require the city to have a vote on the issue, or cooperate with the county. They can revert to a town unilaterally, and the dispute would have to be hashed out in court.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
PlowBoy
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by PlowBoy »

Any more word on the reversion? I think they tried it up here in Buena Vista. I don't know if they actually got it done.
ChiptBeef
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City Considering Reverting to Town.

Post by ChiptBeef »

Just more posturing by the City of Martinsville. A February 10, 2006 Martinsville Bulletin article "Martinsville officials say county study 'deeply flawed'" shows that the city is attacking the credibility of the study that was conducted by Henry County regarding the effects of reversion. The primary reason the county did the study was because of the city's pursuit of their own reversion study that was delivered to the city in November 2005 and presented to the city council in January 2006. Just more of the same... city officials serving up "red herrings." www.martinsvillebulletin.com
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi
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