Truer words were never spoken

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:19 am

From Bill O'Reilly's latest column:

No question that the two big stories this year were Katrina and the continuing chaos in Iraq. Both contain lessons. Katrina demonstrated just what can happen when the water hits the dam; no branch of government can save you from disaster. Those who didn't have the smarts or the wherewithal to flee the Hurricane got blasted especially in New Orleans. A metaphor for life: Get smart and depend on yourself. No bureaucracy can protect you from crisis or disaster. MORE

Those last two sentences form the basic foundation of most of my political views. Don't depend on Social Security, Welfare, universal health care, or any other gov't program. They may be there when you need them; they may not.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:36 am

Accountable wrote: From Bill O'Reilly's latest column:

No question that the two big stories this year were Katrina and the continuing chaos in Iraq. Both contain lessons. Katrina demonstrated just what can happen when the water hits the dam; no branch of government can save you from disaster. Those who didn't have the smarts or the wherewithal to flee the Hurricane got blasted especially in New Orleans. A metaphor for life: Get smart and depend on yourself. No bureaucracy can protect you from crisis or disaster. MORE

Those last two sentences form the basic foundation of most of my political views. Don't depend on Social Security, Welfare, universal health care, or any other gov't program. They may be there when you need them; they may not.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:yh_rotfl

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:37 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:yh_rotflYes?

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:38 am

If fewer people expected to rely on social programs it would be easier for people who need the programs to get through the red tape, which slows everything down. It still depends on personal honesty. There are only so many safeguards you can put in place. I wish I could sucker punch everyone who took unfair advantage of the programs.

Lil~Basco · Post by **Lil~Basco** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:39 am

The best place to find a helping hand is at the end of your arm.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:48 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I'd just be happy being able to collect my social security when I'm old enough... they take a big honking chunk out of my paycheck.Collect it, but don't depend on it alone. The big myth is that one can live on the SS check. Not true & never has been. It only ever meant to be a supplement.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:53 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I've got 15% of my paycheck going into my "Thrift Savings Plan", the odd amount the gov gives me when I finally leave, and SS.

I still think I need a sugar daddy.:(Maybe Arnold's rich. You could butter him up some more. :rolleyes:

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:55 am

Accountable wrote: Yes?

O'Reilly...........

http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/wors ... ec2705.wmv

Lil~Basco · Post by **Lil~Basco** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:57 am

I think sound investments are good. Live off the interest they generate and bank the SS money untouched, which in turn accumulates more interest. Always ahead of the game this way.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:57 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I'd just be happy being able to collect my social security when I'm old enough... they take a big honking chunk out of my paycheck.

They take social security from you or you have own plan?

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:16 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I could give you the specifics, but I've got at least 20% of my salary (for my entire working life, BTW!) going into SS, and I really doubt I'll receive the benefits.

I too have hefty chunk. but no ss

at last we are going to pay into plan b for the medical part come this april........people who hired in after 1986 had this, I hired on 1979 and they refused to take out and we could not pay in........

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:34 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: O'Reilly...........

http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/wors ... ec2705.wmv
It didn't really say anything. I'm going to try to go back and find what terrible thing he was supposed to have said. Who the heck is John Gibson, anyway?

Still, tuth is truth. I'd even give JJ credit if he said something so true.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:36 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: I too have hefty chunk. but no ss

at last we are going to pay into plan b for the medical part come this april........people who hired in after 1986 had this, I hired on 1979 and they refused to take out and we could not pay in........I got into a similar pinch with the GI Bill. Not as serious, but it still sucks.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:46 am

Ditto Action.. Your so right.. dishonest people in these systems is the biggest problem. I broke my neck and was disabled for 10+ yearS at the ripe age of 40.. I had to fight tooth and nail to get disability but got it on the first try.. What can they say to someone with a broken neck that needed years of physical therapy

I know people who need SSI desperately and can't get it, this is the tragedy and it makes me flippin mad. I have helped many people get SSI the system is not set up to make it easy or understandable.

I had no intention of being on SSI one day longer than I had to be.. so in year 2000 I went back to work for the first time since 1989 It was a struggle physically and still is, but I couldn't in all honesty stay on SSI when I could work. That is me others will milk it for ever and aren't truly disabled.. OK THAT IS MY RANT..!!

If fewer people expected to rely on social programs it would be easier for people who need the programs to get through the red tape, which slows everything down. It still depends on personal honesty. There are only so many safeguards you can put in place. I wish I could sucker punch everyone who took unfair advantage of the programs.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:50 am

:yh_clap * Standing ovation * :yh_clap

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:56 am

Accountable wrote: It didn't really say anything. I'm going to try to go back and find what terrible thing he was supposed to have said. Who the heck is John Gibson, anyway?

Still, tuth is truth. I'd even give JJ credit if he said something so true.

I'm just laughing at O'Rilley....like you really needed him to tell you that! (and the fact that you referenced him):)

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:00 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: I'm just laughing at O'Rilley....like you really needed him to tell you that! (and the fact that you referenced him):)Omg. I think I'm warming to you.

Go figure. :yh_think

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:05 am

Accountable wrote: Omg. I think I'm warming to you.

Go figure. :yh_think

It's because you have liberal "trace amounts" pumping through your blood. :-4

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:27 am

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: It's because you have liberal "trace amounts" pumping through your blood. :-4True. the "Liber" part. :wah: Libertarian.

StupidCowboyTricks · Post by **StupidCowboyTricks** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:35 am

Accountable wrote: True. the "Liber" part. :wah: Libertarian.

Better than a Neo-con

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:11 pm

CARLA wrote: Ditto Action.. Your so right.. dishonest people in these systems is the biggest problem. I broke my neck and was disabled for 10+ yearS at the ripe age of 40.. I had to fight tooth and nail to get disability but got it on the first try.. What can they say to someone with a broken neck that needed years of physical therapy

I know people who need SSI desperately and can't get it, this is the tragedy and it makes me flippin mad. I have helped many people get SSI the system is not set up to make it easy or understandable.

I had no intention of being on SSI one day longer than I had to be.. so in year 2000 I went back to work for the first time since 1989 It was a struggle physically and still is, but I couldn't in all honesty stay on SSI when I could work. That is me others will milk it for ever and aren't truly disabled.. OK THAT IS MY RANT..!!

I am on SSI right now for the kidney thing...I fought with the social worker! He wondered why I waited to start it as long as I did, and he wondered why I wanted it automatically shut off in six months! The good thing with SSI is that it comes out of your OWN earnings, not the earnings of others. He told me I could collect for TWO YEARS. Geez, why would I collect for two years when I'll be back to work in a few months?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:14 pm

actionfigurestepho wrote: I am on SSI right now for the kidney thing...I fought with the social worker! He wondered why I waited to start it as long as I did, and he wondered why I wanted it automatically shut off in six months! The good thing with SSI is that it comes out of your OWN earnings, not the earnings of others. He told me I could collect for TWO YEARS. Geez, why would I collect for two years when I'll be back to work in a few months?
:-4

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:24 pm

:-4 Your awesome...@!! Yes it does come out of your own money, but if the rest of the SOB's taking advantage of the system don't have much it and stay on it when they should be off it, starts draining all of our SSI benifits. I was lucky to have had Long Term disability thru my job, and had already worked 24 years so I was at the higher end of the benefit scale..

Still it was a battle each month with SSI everytime the mail came with SSI logo on it I got a knot in my stomach and my hand started shaking because I knew It was going to be another fight and tons of paper work. I was lucky like you I had physicians behind me 100% which help totally..

I am on SSI right now for the kidney thing...I fought with the social worker! He wondered why I waited to start it as long as I did, and he wondered why I wanted it automatically shut off in six months! The good thing with SSI is that it comes out of your OWN earnings, not the earnings of others. He told me I could collect for TWO YEARS. Geez, why would I collect for two years when I'll be back to work in a few months?

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:29 pm

CARLA wrote: :-4 Your awesome...@!! Yes it does come out of your own money, but if the rest of the SOB's taking advantage of the system don't have much it and stay on it when they should be off it, starts draining all of our SSI benifits. I was lucky to have had Long Term disability thru my job, and had already worked 24 years so I was at the higher end of the benefit scale..

Still it was a battle each month with SSI everytime the mail came with SSI logo on it I got a knot in my stomach and my hand started shaking because I knew It was going to be another fight and tons of paper work. I was lucky like you I had physicians behind me 100% which help totally..

I thought the SS office was a lot of help. The SCARY office was the Social Services (ie Welfare) office. I was amazed at how many people would come and try to get food stamps. You could hear every little detail of their story and some of them were just...obviously not people who deserved food stamps. And they actually had the nerve to make me apply for them THREE TIMES! Apparently if you're going to apply for other social services, this office makes you apply for them all at once. I would say "I don't NEED food stamps" and they'd say "it's on the application anyway." I suppose once you've worked in services for years you get a pretty good eye for sifting through the BS.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:39 pm

Action, SSI Has become a better system due to complaints and persistance from people like me, and many others. I have know people who have actually died trying to get SSI benefits..!! And countless other who can't dodge and weave their way through the system so they just give up.!!! NOT ACCEPTABLE.. :-5

MEDICAL.. Now that is a whole other nightmare..!! :-5

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:06 pm

Accountable wrote: From Bill O'Reilly's latest column:

No question that the two big stories this year were Katrina and the continuing chaos in Iraq. Both contain lessons. Katrina demonstrated just what can happen when the water hits the dam; no branch of government can save you from disaster. Those who didn't have the smarts or the wherewithal to flee the Hurricane got blasted especially in New Orleans. A metaphor for life: Get smart and depend on yourself. No bureaucracy can protect you from crisis or disaster. MORE

Those last two sentences form the basic foundation of most of my political views. Don't depend on Social Security, Welfare, universal health care, or any other gov't program. They may be there when you need them; they may not.

This reeks of the "R" word. EEEK ! Say it aint so so !

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:22 pm

actionfigurestepho wrote: I am on SSI right now for the kidney thing...I fought with the social worker! He wondered why I waited to start it as long as I did, and he wondered why I wanted it automatically shut off in six months! The good thing with SSI is that it comes out of your OWN earnings, not the earnings of others. He told me I could collect for TWO YEARS. Geez, why would I collect for two years when I'll be back to work in a few months?
And here we have on display the rare and once thought mythological, "honest person." Seen only for brief flashes and on occasional evenings of a "blue moon", and becoming more and more rare by the nano-second, please do your part to keep the "honest person" from becoming extinct entirely. This has been a public service announcement. We now return you to your regularly scheduled dishonesty.

SOJOURNER · Post by **SOJOURNER** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:35 pm

Accountable wrote: From Bill O'Reilly's latest column:

A metaphor for life: Get smart and depend on yourself. No bureaucracy can protect you from crisis or disaster. MORE

Those last two sentences form the basic foundation of most of my political views. Don't depend on Social Security, Welfare, universal health care, or any other gov't program. They may be there when you need them; they may not.

Just viewed the movie Cinderella Man. Movie is set in the Depression. To keep his family together he finally accepts Assistance, but as soon as he can, he not only gets off Assistance, but pays back all they had previous given him because he was glad to have had the help and now that he can work and take care of his family, he wants to make sure there is enough there for others in need.

This attitute sure isn't the mindset of the current generation. Rare indeed are the attitute's of Carla's and AFS's. What is it in people that makes such a big difference in their attitutes on this?

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:53 pm

Those last two sentences form the basic foundation of most of my political views. Don't depend on Social Security, Welfare, universal health care, or any other gov't program. They may be there when you need them; they may not.

I truly agree with such a mandate. However, one of the problems, apart from the SS milkers, is the nature of a capitalist economy. This type of economy actually encourages a dole system with plenty of people on the dole. This helps keep wages down.

There is a drawback for the employers, however. They cannot get special skills this way. Those people who bother to get good training and subject specialisation are unlikely to be on the dole except during the worst economic slumps. And even then, they are likely to find some way of getting by so as not to end up in the dole queue (which is a pretty soul destroying experience for any self-respecting person).

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:35 pm

Nomad wrote: This reeks of the "R" word. EEEK ! Say it aint so so !Rrrrealistic? Rrrrrrrepetitive? RRrrrrresponsible? RRrrrrrepetitive? Rrrrreprehensible? Rrrrribs * fries?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:42 pm

OpenMind wrote: Those last two sentences form the basic foundation of most of my political views. Don't depend on Social Security, Welfare, universal health care, or any other gov't program. They may be there when you need them; they may not.

I truly agree with such a mandate. However, one of the problems, apart from the SS milkers, is the nature of a capitalist economy. This type of economy actually encourages a dole system with plenty of people on the dole. This helps keep wages down.

There is a drawback for the employers, however. They cannot get special skills this way. Those people who bother to get good training and subject specialisation are unlikely to be on the dole except during the worst economic slumps. And even then, they are likely to find some way of getting by so as not to end up in the dole queue (which is a pretty soul destroying experience for any self-respecting person).En contraire.

People on the dole don't have disposable income. Disposable income buys goods, which build profits, which grows companies, which increases employment, which means fewer dolemites, which increases the number of people with disposable income.

More people on the dole helps politicians, who can claim to help by increasing coverage, which increases taxes, which reduces disposable income, which causes more people to be on the dole.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:46 pm

Accountable wrote: En contraire.

People on the dole don't have disposable income. Disposable income buys goods, which build profits, which grows companies, which increases employment, which means fewer dolemites, which increases the number of people with disposable income.

More people on the dole helps politicians, who can claim to help by increasing coverage, which increases taxes, which reduces disposable income, which causes more people to be on the dole.

In the capitalist system, employees are also commodities. This particular commodity is one of the largest expense items in the economy, and, like anything else, is subject to the forces of supply and demand. The unemployed labour pool is an essential part of the economy.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:48 pm

SOJOURNER wrote: Just viewed the movie Cinderella Man. Movie is set in the Depression. To keep his family together he finally accepts Assistance, but as soon as he can, he not only gets off Assistance, but pays back all they had previous given him because he was glad to have had the help and now that he can work and take care of his family, he wants to make sure there is enough there for others in need.

This attitute sure isn't the mindset of the current generation. Rare indeed are the attitute's of Carla's and AFS's. What is it in people that makes such a big difference in their attitutes on this?I saw the movie. Definitely Oscar calibre!

I believe the big downfall is our own soft-heartedness. People that truly need the help shouldn't feel ashamed, and shouldn't be ridiculed by others. So we go out of our way to make people feel comfortable asking for assistance. Next come the hearless - those who ask for assistance and scream if anyone lifts an eyebrow. We're more civilised than that and say nothing. Then the borderline needy, those who fall between the first 2 groups, don't see any reason they shouldn't get theirs, so they do. Skip forward one generation, and voila! It's a way of life.

SOJOURNER · Post by **SOJOURNER** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:51 pm

Accountable wrote: I saw the movie. Definitely Oscar calibre!

I believe the big downfall is our own soft-heartedness. People that truly need the help shouldn't feel ashamed, and shouldn't be ridiculed by others. So we go out of our way to make people feel comfortable asking for assistance. Next come the hearless - those who ask for assistance and scream if anyone lifts an eyebrow. We're more civilised than that and say nothing. Then the borderline needy, those who fall between the first 2 groups, don't see any reason they shouldn't get theirs, so they do. Skip forward one generation, and voila! It's a way of life.

Your right. Tis the way of the world. This may be why so many of us don't understand the thinking of the rest .

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:52 pm

OpenMind wrote: In the capitalist system, employees are also commodities. This particular commodity is one of the largest expense items in the economy, and, like anything else, is subject to the forces of supply and demand. The unemployed labour pool is an essential part of the economy.That is true in an industry-based country. Is England still industry-based? The US is becoming more and more service-based. Those aren't the terms I really want, but it's getting late here.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:01 pm

Accountable wrote: That is true in an industry-based country. Is England still industry-based? The US is becoming more and more service-based. Those aren't the terms I really want, but it's getting late here.

England is more service based now but still needs employees. Service based seems to suit employers even more as it depends more on unskilled labour. Now, that's as cheap as it can get. Even management is relatively low paid in the service industry.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:43 am

Companies all over this country are dropping retirement plans, setting the stage for individual self reliance. Some will do the responsible thing and educate themselves on financing their future, and others will wring their hands and hope things turn out ok. It happened to me two years ago. I thought I was set, then we bought out a large corp. with many more employees than we had and the stockholders wanted to streamline expenses.

The first thing to go was retirement.

Ok, Im getting short ended there, its not what I signed up for but its reality so what am I left with ? Me. Im in charge of my future. I can live with that, and Ive taken the necessary steps to ensure I can retire with peace of mind. That could change again, but you can only do your best when you plan for most contingencies. If something happens to me, my wife can quit her job, and vice versa.

The rest ? Its like riding the wind, you never know where you might end up.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:47 am

Nomad wrote: Companies all over this country are dropping retirement plans, seeting the stage for individual self reliance. Some will do the responsible thing and educate themselves on financing their future, and others will wring their hands and hope things turn out ok. It happened to me two years ago. I thought I was set, then we bought out a large corp. with many more employees than we had and the stockholders wanted to streamline expenses.

The first thing to go was retirement.

Ok, Im getting short ended there, its not what I signed up for but its reality so what am I left with ? Me. Im in charge of my future. I can live with that, and Ive taken the necessary steps to ensure I can retire with peace of mind. That could change again, but you can only do your best when you plan for most contingencies. If something happens to me, my wife can quit her job, and vice versa.

The rest ? Its like riding the wind, you never know where you might end up.I luv you, man! They make promises, then renig. Even the gov't does it. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Now about the 'R' word??

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:51 am

NO!

Id like to think Im independently green

anyway Im not a party guy...case by case I usually end up right in the middle

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:55 am

Nomad wrote: NO!

Id like to think Im independently green

anyway Im not a party guy...case by case I usually end up right in the middleOh, you meant Republican? You don't read my political posts much, do ya? I don't like either side of the controlling party. They're both dragging us down the wrong road, they just can't decide if they want to drag us down the left or right side of that wrong road. :-5

I'm a purist, an idealist. I guess I fit libertarian closer than anything, for those that need to categorize.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:02 am

They dont even know which way theyre going ! Anymore it seems which lobbyist is throwing dollars in any given direction. Amongst themselves its a tit (heee) for a tat, Ill trade you this for that, you give up that Ill take this. Lets throw the Alaskan oil bill on the defense bill................... FILTHY GREEDY PIGS !

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:07 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: I'd like to think I agree with you Nomad but I just cant help thinking that trying to educate yourself in finance just aint gonna work. The experts here in the UK have got it consistantly wrong for years, leaving us with worthless endowments and pension. We've grown up in a system that takes a great deal of our income in National Insurance contributions with an assurance that the money would be used to pay for a decent old age pension and a health system worth braggina about.

Stocks? Shares? retirement plans? All goes through one ear and out the other . I work with my hands, my brain just about computes what every day stuff I feed it, anything else is a struggle. What I'm saying is, do we ever reach that fully independant state ? We are always gonna rely on someone for something

Me ? I'm just a little cog in a big machineIt's a challenge, to be sure, but don't sell yourself short. You're a cog in someone else's bigger machine, but you have to take control of your own machine.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:11 am

but you have to take control of your own machine.

There goes the thread, right down the toilet !

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:39 am

As far as I'm concerned, it is the right attitude to be responsible for oneself. Should the day come that I have to be spoon fed, have my nappy changed, and so on, I hope that I can commit suicide with dignity or that someone can legally do it for me.

Arnold is right, though. Particularly with our current Government in the UK. We have things forced upon us.

Jeez, if an employer says thanks to me, I'm elated. What state of being is that?

It's nice to have a safety net, and it's nice that there's a system for drawing resources in case of emergencies. But everyone should be taking care of theirselves, following their own dreams and goals, finding their own niche, etc. Boy, I could even get religious about this!

But the guys at the top are keeping us down on purpose and making sure that taking care of ourselves pays them a big fat salary. Oh, give me a punch bag before I break something!!