My stomach is all knotted up

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:04 pm

Ive never asked for advise here before but I need some now. My brother, where to start ??? He has been married and divorced 4 times, 2 of the marriages lasted less than a yr. 1 lasted 2 mo's. We grew up in a tumultuous house to say the least. Alcoholic mom, uncle, grandparents, dad didnt know how to cope with any of it so he just, hell I dont know what he did ??? Non-existent I spose. Anyway it was loud, angry and violent most of the time. I found out just a yr. or so ago my brother used to cut himself, he internalized his feelings. I acted out. Drinking, drugs, cops etc.

A couple of yrs ago the family was up north at a cabin for the 4th of July. My bro pulled me aside and told me how angry he was at our nephew, he was really upset about the way people were doting on him, he thought he was spoiled. Oh yea my nephew was 4 at the time. He stayed angry all weekend. He doesnt talk to me except an occasional e-mail. He doesnt talk to my dad because he doesnt feel comfortable with my dads family after he re-married, that was 25 yrs. ago, so he doesnt come to Thanksgiving or Christmas, he stays home alone.

He is an incredibly gifted artist, he can paint, sculpt, he does digital art, his work is top notch, so hes got that going for him. He wont talk to our sis anymore because he doesnt like the way he treats her husband, says she acts like our mom. My sis is a recovering alcoholic sober more than 10 yrs now and shes nothing like my mom, shes sweet and now heartbroken because my bro has rejected her. I havent said anything to him about any of it. Hes so angry I just dont want to approach him. But lately thats changed, I need to talk to him but the letters I write I throw away because they end up being hostile. Im not an angry person, Im very calm and peaceful but this has got me going. The worst of it is he stands on the bible when he points his finger. He loves and knows God in a very divine way, I suspect we dont meet his standards. Standards ???? He wont talk to anyone in his family !!! The more I think on it the more I think hes a piece of crap. I dont know where to go with this.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:10 pm

Tell him you know he hurts as much as the rest of you do. Tell him you still love him, and tell him it is time to think about his future, does he want to grow old without a family? Suggest perhaps he take a good hard look at what family he has and the good in each and every one of them. Tell him it is time to put the past back where it belongs in the past. And let him know you and your sis want their brother back and explain how you feel and how your sis is feeling. Suggest he try giving family a second (perhaps only first) chance.

Try to keep accusations out of your letters, say things like I feel like this when you say or do this. I think sis feels this. I get the feeling of etc.

Remind him, he has a family no matter what and family will always be family for life.

Good luck Nomad.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:13 pm

He wants to move to Fl and live on a boat. No one would notice, hes not really here anyway.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:15 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: It doesn't sound like he wants anything to do with the family. Maybe you should "respect" that and leave him to his lonely, solitary life. It sounds less stressful for everyone involved.

Sorry.

Minks is also much nicer than me as I have to agree with you Snooze.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:17 pm

Betty Boop wrote: Minks is also much nicer than me as I have to agree with you Snooze.

oh crap sorry ok ugly side coming up

Tell him go, don't let the door slam him on the arse on the way out, and say he is not welcome back..... is that better??

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:24 pm

I dont see change in him coming. He blames everyone else for his problems. He takes no responsibility for his life. God tells him what to do. If his art doesnt sell its because God doesnt like his art. Do you believe that ? Mom's been dead 5 yrs and he still cant forgive. His 1st wife divorced him more than 10 yrs ago and he blames her every day for ruining his life. How do you reason with that ?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:27 pm

You don't reason with it, it's impossible.

He sounds so like my ex, always somebody elses fault and never taking responsibility for his own actions.

Don't waste your time and energy on him Nomad, don't let him bring you down.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:27 pm

Well something will come to a head before he disappears for good and we find out in 25 yrs he died from a Fl cops phone call.

All I can say is its very clear to see Im the good one !

(kidding)

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:41 pm

Let him go, he may learn something along the way that will bring him back to the family..

Thing happen for a reason, sometimes we can't see the reason but its there.. Let him chart his journey to where ever, its in the stars.. he will find his way back..

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:46 pm

I just stole your globe...whoooooshhh.................................

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:45 pm

If I read right, he's going to an awful lot of trouble to push away people that aren't that close to begin with. Do you want to find out why?

If you were kids, I'd have alot to say about going to the trouble of getting together. But you're not kids. You have a family that needs your energy. Your brother (I swear you & I are kin somehow) seems to be looking for a pity party, and when he sees how empty it is he will ridicule the idiots who would go to such trouble.

My recommendation: cut your losses. Weed out your memories of your brother and keep the best ones. Keep those memories and treasure them. Maybe he'll turn himself around and you can have a healthy relationship in the future, but you know as well as I what the odds are.

My story of my brother is around here in the Garden somewhere, if you're interested.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:56 pm

Thanks guys. Far I liked that, straight up thanks. Jabberwocky, I guess I just want to dump on him at this point, let him know its not ok what hes doing. A release I think then I can let it go. Acc yea Im interested, I respect you very much, so Id like to read on it. Point to the right direction. Sneezer, yup !

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:07 pm

Nomad wrote: I dont see change in him coming. He blames everyone else for his problems. He takes no responsibility for his life. God tells him what to do. If his art doesnt sell its because God doesnt like his art. Do you believe that ? Mom's been dead 5 yrs and he still cant forgive. His 1st wife divorced him more than 10 yrs ago and he blames her every day for ruining his life. How do you reason with that ?
Nomad, I may not be the best one to be giving advice right now, but your very last sentence here grabbed me. "How do you reason with that?" You don't. A person of that age, who insists on placing blame everywhere else but squarely on his own shoulders, is not going to be reasoned with. This is one of those things you've heard me talk about a hundred times: Personal accountability. It's gone out the friggin window and it's more about how to divert blame and find reasons why NOTHING is your (his) fault than finding the courage in himself to pull himself up by his own boot straps and do something about the mess HE has made of his life. And the only person who can do that for him, is HIM. Nothing you say or do, nothing the rest of your family can say or do, will get through to him. He has the sanctimonious, self-righteous attitude that he is better than the rest of you? Great, then he doesn't need any of you and he certainly doesn't deserve any of you. It's funny....when you reach a point in your life where you realize that someone you love may actaully REALLY be taken away from you, for good and for real, it changes your perspective on things. Trust me, I know a little about that. If that doesn't matter to him, hey...quit wasting your energy.

CountryDweller · Post by **CountryDweller** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:13 pm

Nomad, sometimes it's easier to write a letter that comes from within than to speak face to face. Perhaps this would be the best way for you, to get off your chest, what is bothering you and let the chips fall where they may. If he chooses to move to Flordia, he should go. Maybe this would be the best resolve for the whole family.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:19 pm

Nomad wrote: [...] Acc yea Im interested, I respect you very much, so Id like to read on it. Point to the right direction. Sneezer, yup !Here ya go.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:26 pm

My youngest brother is a problem relative too, Nomad. He is an alcoholic, always into and out of trouble as he is getting close to 50. He lives far out in the boonies away from the family and has little to do with us. We pretty much respect that, but keep him in the loop by sending him letters every so often, a message on the phone recorder (he never answers the phone) and tell him we love him and leave it at that. It is easier just to let him be, because he doesn't want to be with us.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:32 pm

BabyRider wrote: This is one of those things you've heard me talk about a hundred times: Personal accountability. It's gone out the friggin window and it's more about how to divert blame and find reasons why NOTHING is your (his) fault than finding the courage in himself to pull himself up by his own boot straps and do something about the mess HE has made of his life. And the only person who can do that for him, is HIM. Nothing you say or do, nothing the rest of your family can say or do, will get through to him. He has the sanctimonious, self-righteous attitude that he is better than the rest of you? Great, then he doesn't need any of you and he certainly doesn't deserve any of you.

Sometimes people just CAN'T pull themselves up by their bootstraps though!

It sounds to me as though your brother has had a very rough childhood and he feels unworthy of any love. He also pushes you all away before you have the chance to reject him first. Thats the way I read it anyway. From what you've said I think he probably needs to talk it all out with a counsellor, a stranger who will listen to HIM and work from his viewpoint. You may think he's in the wrong, and he may be in the wrong, but in his own eyes he's been rejected by everyone he's ever loved or cared for, he feels no-one understands him, he's hurting deep inside and he's lashing out. I don't know him, but from what you've said I think he has a LOT of hurt and anger in him and he's crying out to you but you're all rejecting him again (in his eyes). Thats probably why he's jealous of the toddler, he sees the little one getting all your love and attention whilst he's getting none, yet as a close family member he feels he too should be given respect and affection.

I dont know how you could get him into counselling, but I feel it would help him a huge amount to be able to talk to someone about his pain without fear of rejection.

Thats IMHO anyway.

**Ducks and runs before someone throws eggs**

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:29 am

((hey Gonad)).....

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:36 am

Nomad wrote: He wants to move to Fl and live on a boat. No one would notice, hes not really here anyway.many many people drop out and end up down here living on the hook. (at anchor) give me a heads up or call if he does come to florida, maybe i could check on his welfare for you. ((hug)):-6

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:14 am

lady cop wrote: many many people drop out and end up down here living on the hook. (at anchor) give me a heads up or call if he does come to florida, maybe i could check on his welfare for you. ((hug)):-6

what a VERY kind thing to do, and unobtrusive so he wouldn't know.

Its when people do such nice things for others you really appreciate what a great site this is! :-6

MzInterpret · Post by **MzInterpret** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:48 am

I too have been in a similar situation nomad. And I think that the one thing that can work, if you are satisfied that you have done everything to get through to your brother, is Tough Love.

Let him know that as much as you love him, you are walking away. He is a drain on your energy and that needs to be corrected. You need that energy to put into your own family and life. Nobody changes, unless they want to. We cannot talk to someone and ask, or tell, them to change. You will have to wait for your brother to reach this point, if he ever does.

Perhaps you can let him know that the door will always be open for him to contact you, should he wish, but it will be on your terms. Sometimes writing a letter is easier than talking as when we talk we tend to forget a lot of what we meant to say. The letter can also be read by your brother again when - or even if - he ever wants to make contact.

Sometimes it's hard removing ourselves from a family member, but sometimes it can be the best thing for everyone involved.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:41 am

*bringing fishing rod*

Take me too Snooze, it is 24 and dropping here today.................

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:03 am

MzInterpret wrote: I too have been in a similar situation nomad. And I think that the one thing that can work, if you are satisfied that you have done everything to get through to your brother, is Tough Love.

Let him know that as much as you love him, you are walking away. He is a drain on your energy and that needs to be corrected. You need that energy to put into your own family and life. Nobody changes, unless they want to. We cannot talk to someone and ask, or tell, them to change. You will have to wait for your brother to reach this point, if he ever does.

Perhaps you can let him know that the door will always be open for him to contact you, should he wish, but it will be on your terms. Sometimes writing a letter is easier than talking as when we talk we tend to forget a lot of what we meant to say. The letter can also be read by your brother again when - or even if - he ever wants to make contact.

Sometimes it's hard removing ourselves from a family member, but sometimes it can be the best thing for everyone involved.

This would also be my advice. It makes such sense....I read the second paragraph several times..... it sais it all

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.....you know you have all the love and support here . xxxxx

The Red One · Post by **The Red One** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:09 am

Let him know that as much as you love him, you are walking away. He is a drain on your energy and that needs to be corrected. You need that energy to put into your own family and life. Nobody changes, unless they want to. We cannot talk to someone and ask, or tell, them to change. You will have to wait for your brother to reach this point, if he ever does.

That pretty much sums it up....but also let him know you still love him and support his decision....let him know you will be there for him when/if he EVER needs you for a little, or a lot, of support. You will never be able to break ties with him completely since he is your brother. Maybe one day he will realize that even with God in his life he is not a complete whole being. The phrase without family who do you have comes to mind. I would be completely lost without mine, I can do without friends, but not family. Just make sure he knows you'll be there for him when the time comes.

I really hope that made since....bunch of words and thoughts are running through me head.....oh the voices!!!!

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:25 am

How brave people must be to have the courage to walk away from family. I do not mean this in a mean way. Gosh I grew up with and still am growing with the strongest family around I think. Never ever has anyone turned their back on anyone. Hmmm just something I can't fathom, just so sad to know it has to happen out there. Nomad go with your heart.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:05 am

I wouldn't advocate 'walking away' but maybe keeping a 'watching brief' so that you are there when needed....as posted 'the door is kept open' .

Very hard to advise...individual situations require different actions.

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:11 pm

Go with your heart, Nomad, and you won't go wrong...how could you? :-6

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:25 pm

minks wrote: How brave people must be to have the courage to walk away from family. I do not mean this in a mean way. Gosh I grew up with and still am growing with the strongest family around I think. Never ever has anyone turned their back on anyone. Hmmm just something I can't fathom, just so sad to know it has to happen out there. Nomad go with your heart.Hardly walking away or turning a back. More of giving what they need. Similar to letting the toddler bump his butt when learning to walk or fall off a bike & encouraging him to get back on.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:36 pm

Thank you everyone, your all very kind and generous.

Rapunzel your thoughts are very astute and poignant. I suspect you know what your talking about. Im not oblivious to his pain, if he was cutting himself, he feels very deeply. Thats why Ive not said anything yet, I dont know what its like to walk in his shoes. I imagine hes tormented and I have empathy and compassion for those in need. When the time comes I believe Ill know the right thing to do. Thank you.

Brian

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:30 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: If you rearrange the letters in Brian, its spells BRAIN.:-2and IN BRA :wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:08 pm

So his brain is mixed up?? :-2

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:50 am

Accountable wrote: So his brain is mixed up?? :-2
no, just his brian

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:12 pm

Uncle Kram wrote: no, just his brianimportant for digestion.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:37 pm

Nomad wrote: Rapunzel your thoughts are very astute and poignant. I suspect you know what your talking about. Im not oblivious to his pain, if he was cutting himself, he feels very deeply. Thats why Ive not said anything yet, I dont know what its like to walk in his shoes. I imagine hes tormented and I have empathy and compassion for those in need. When the time comes I believe Ill know the right thing to do. Thank you.

Brian

I have done a fair amount of counselling and what you say smacks of his feelings of low self-worth and low self-esteem. If he feels that badly about himself then I think any advances you make will be taken negatively by him. For instance, even if you said "I love you" he'll probably think constantly about what you've said and how you've said it until he starts to think you were taking the mickey and what you really mean is "I loathe you, you worthless lump of ****" I don't know if you can do anything to help him as I would say he really needs to talk to someone at length about his feelings. That someone being a non-family member.

I believe that seeing a psychiatrist is quite a popular thing to do in the States, but I imagine its very expensive. Are there any helpline numbers he can phone, e.g., the Samaritans? or even a helpline for victims of abuse? because he is obviously traumatised by his childhood and if he is highly sensitive then he has obviously suffered emotional abuse and mental abuse, if not physical abuse. These may sound like strong words but I believe he needs to talk out his feelings before they overwhelm him and he feels his life has no meaning.

I really don't know if it would help but perhaps you could send him a brief note saying "You're my brother and I love you. I know how hard our childhood was for you and I just want you to know I'm there for you, if you ever want to talk. If you can't talk to me then perhaps these numbers (e.g., the Samaritans) may help you. I'm always here if you need me. Take care. Brian" Keep it very brief so it is harder for him to twist your words into a negative meaning.

And then make your New Years Resolution a promise that you will send him little things throughout the year. Perhaps a postcard with a nice picture on it and you could say 'this picture reminded me of (a good event in your life that he has shared) and I wanted to share it with you. Take care" or maybe a little bunch of spring flowers with a note 'these flowers reminded me of the ones in mum's garden/ at school/ by the lake where we fished and I wanted to share them with you. Take care" Perhaps if you sent him a note or a token gift every couple of months, just to let him know you're thinking of him, he may start to feel better about himself knowing someone likes him and cares about him. It may not work, you may think its silly, you probably won't get any comeback from him, but you could try it for a year as it wouldn't hurt to try and it may help, perhaps more than you might expect.

I understand how difficult this is for all your family. I also know that some people feel things far more deeply than other people. It can take a lot of skill to make your brother accept your gestures without you being too pushy or too reticent. A hard job for you and maybe you feel it would be a waste of time, but perhaps you could reach out to him before its too late for him.

I don't know if I've been any help, but your kind words have helped me in the past and you'll be in my thoughts and prayers as you decide how best to approach and deal with your brother. Go with what feels right to you.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:47 pm

Rapunzel, this is such valuable advice to anyone in a similar situation. I have never been in such a situation, but I know people that have, and will certainly bear in mind your advice if needed....thanks

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:00 pm

Wise words Rapunzel, but if my brother sent me flowers, I'd KNOW he was taking the Mickey

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:49 pm

Thanks Bez and Uncle K.

Uncle K, I just meant that a token gesture would show someone you were thinking of them...and in a good way. Wouldn't you prefer to get a little gift in the post from a loved one (because Nomad's brother still loves him...he wouldn't feel such deep hurt if there was no love there) that says they're thinking of you, rather than being ignored by them all year? They may not know what to say to you and so stay away, but you would be sad to interpret that as your family ignoring you because they don't care for you. You'd feel unloved, unwanted and rejected. A token gift or card and a note that says I'm here for you would brighten your day a little, maybe put a bounce in your step, just to know your family cares. Love 'em or hate 'em, family still matter. They're part of who you are.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:11 am

Thank you Rapunzel. Its a lost cause though. Ive spent the last 5 days defending my existence. I have been dismissed and excused. Im exhausted and empty. Ill let him go now.