The sins of the father shouldn't be held against the children.
You want them to give the money back? To whom?
George W. has enough sins of his own; it does seem that he is carrying on the family traditions of deceit, profiteering, and gold gathering.
Hitler and the Bush family.
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ComfortablyNumb
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Hitler and the Bush family.
Well said, AL.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Hitler and the Bush family.
Oops. overdeleted. 
Honest leaders should be able to survive some digging. Investigate away!
*Not to be construed that I believe Pres Bush to be honest.
Honest leaders should be able to survive some digging. Investigate away!
*Not to be construed that I believe Pres Bush to be honest.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Hitler and the Bush family.
Scrat wrote: Let's get back on track here. I put this post up not so much to attack Booshie (although I take great delight in waylaying the inbred ingrate at every opportunity) but as an example of a pattern in human society.
The very clear pattern of the wealthy and powerful manipulating politics and political situations in order to profit. Regardless of the cost to human societies.I think Machiavellian practices **** me off more than just about anything.
The very clear pattern of the wealthy and powerful manipulating politics and political situations in order to profit. Regardless of the cost to human societies.I think Machiavellian practices **** me off more than just about anything.
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Accountable
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Hitler and the Bush family.
Scrat wrote: Please enlighten me. I have heard that term before but Idon't know what it means.Niccolo Machiavelli. He's probably not the first guy to say "the ends justify the means" but he's the one one that get the credit.
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Accountable
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Hitler and the Bush family.
unfortunately that's irrelavent until we are out. The question now is How are we going to get out? What are the ramifications of just pulling out; treating Iraq like we have Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, and every other country we've 'helped' by keeping a permanent presence; or something inbetween.
Personally, I could give 2 hoots about instability in the Middle East, but I'm a small-picture kind of guy. I didn't agree with going in to enforce UN directives when the UN itself wasn't willing. It'd be sweet if we could somehow leave Iraq to the UN to sort out.
I don't understand why we need gov't intervention in a business deal (oil).
I don't understand the 'global police' mentality at all.
But then, I never understood the arrogance of Manifest Destiny either.
Personally, I could give 2 hoots about instability in the Middle East, but I'm a small-picture kind of guy. I didn't agree with going in to enforce UN directives when the UN itself wasn't willing. It'd be sweet if we could somehow leave Iraq to the UN to sort out.
I don't understand why we need gov't intervention in a business deal (oil).
I don't understand the 'global police' mentality at all.
But then, I never understood the arrogance of Manifest Destiny either.
Hitler and the Bush family.
I think it is really a complete stupidity to compere the Bushes and Hitler considereing that Hitler was a dictator and mass killer who started WWII. Those who know history should be either lughing or be insulted to the comparison.
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Accountable
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Hitler and the Bush family.
moverguy wrote: Genghis Khan?
Roman Empire?
Vikings?
Yeah, they all lead and conquered and held their powers through peace and diplomacy!
Historical success doesn't always mean best practice. Farmers used to grow the same crop year after year until the land was depleted, then go to a new patch of ground. A farmer would say "I know all about farming. I've used up three of them." Then someone thought of crop rotation ... against all the historic success stories.
Roman Empire?
Vikings?
Yeah, they all lead and conquered and held their powers through peace and diplomacy!
Historical success doesn't always mean best practice. Farmers used to grow the same crop year after year until the land was depleted, then go to a new patch of ground. A farmer would say "I know all about farming. I've used up three of them." Then someone thought of crop rotation ... against all the historic success stories.
Hitler and the Bush family.
moverguy wrote: Genghis Khan?
Roman Empire?
Vikings?
Yeah, they all lead and conquered and held their powers through peace and diplomacy!
Ghengis Kahn stared the largest land empire the world has ever seen. which says rather a lot for his organizational abilities. People followed him in to battle which says rather a lot for his leadership abilities. Because it was in the east to most westerners it was as if it never happened but Ghengis was far from a mindless barbarian.
Roman Empire, divide and conqueor a tactic copied by every empire. Started out as a city state fighting for freedom from tyranny.
Your legal tradition owes a great deal to roman law you live in a republic ruled by elected representratives sitting in a senate. You elect an emperor but call him president and put limits on his power, playing the various branches of government against the other is supposed balance. though most probably don't wonder why it is called a senate.
http://www.crystalinks.com/romelaw.html
The basis for Roman law was the idea that the exact form, not the intention, of words or of actions produced legal consequences. To ignore intention may not seem fair from a modern perspective, but the Romans recognized that there are witnesses to actions and words, but not to intentions.
Thus were ceated lawyers. You argue interminably about the wording of the constitution and it's meaning.
You even name cities after famous romans
Cincinnati is named after a famous Roman dictator, inspiring stuff
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/rule ... nnatus.htm
Vikings? At one point the descendants of vikings sat on every throne in europe, surprisingly eclectic in their approach to rule. our modern democracy owes a great deal to viking/celtic european tribal tradition and customs in a basic egalitarianism that is uniquely european in origin. (IMO that is )
So Bush's family had connections to the nazis-they have them now to the saudis.
None of that is a big secret. You voted for him.
Henry Ford was not only a well known anti semite (so was Walt Disney) he helped finance the early Nazi party as did not a few other industrialists. even jewish ones before they realised the mistake. Hitler started out as leading a democratic party with less than 20% of the vote and gained much support for his anti communist stance, all around the world. It was only later it became clear where it was going to lead. The Kennedy's built their financial empire with the help of the mob and prohibition. So heroes have feet of clay. Churchill was a man of his times and once he had served the way people wanted him to he got kicked out because the British people were not fighting to preserve the British Empire, that sentiment went in WW1. They wanted socialism and the welfare state not more of what things were like before.
Machiavelli was arguably trying to ingratiate himself with the prince who took over the venetian republic.
http://www.philosophers.co.uk/cafe/phil_aug2002.htm
Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527) was primarily a diplomat and spin-doctor, committed to enhancing the power of his native city republic, Florence. When the Medici family ousted the republicans, Machiavelli was treated with suspicion and eventually accused of plotting against the Medici.
In 1513, Machiavelli was tortured, and retired to a farm - an internal exile. There he wrote Il Principe (The Prince) - a gift for the powerful Medici. Machiavelli hoped that his exposition on how rulers should secure power would re-ignite his political career, even if in support of the princely dictators. The Prince failed in that, but brought him posthumous fame - fame as the political philosopher best known for (seemingly) being prepared to justify any means for political preservation. He later wrote the Discourses, justifying republicanism, and The Art of War, arguing for a citizen militia rather than mercenaries.
The blame game is endless Bush was doing what everybody else was at the time.
I'd worry more about the present day military industrial complex and what they are up to than what went on in the past-although maybe a warning from history wouldn't go amiss at any time. When politicians advocate warfare as an instrument of diplomacy to preserve national interests who gets to die?
No doubt Osama Bin laden sees himself as a moral person doing his best for humanity just as bush and TB do. Then again you need a well developed sense of irony to get the humour of it all.
Roman Empire?
Vikings?
Yeah, they all lead and conquered and held their powers through peace and diplomacy!
Ghengis Kahn stared the largest land empire the world has ever seen. which says rather a lot for his organizational abilities. People followed him in to battle which says rather a lot for his leadership abilities. Because it was in the east to most westerners it was as if it never happened but Ghengis was far from a mindless barbarian.
Roman Empire, divide and conqueor a tactic copied by every empire. Started out as a city state fighting for freedom from tyranny.
Your legal tradition owes a great deal to roman law you live in a republic ruled by elected representratives sitting in a senate. You elect an emperor but call him president and put limits on his power, playing the various branches of government against the other is supposed balance. though most probably don't wonder why it is called a senate.
http://www.crystalinks.com/romelaw.html
The basis for Roman law was the idea that the exact form, not the intention, of words or of actions produced legal consequences. To ignore intention may not seem fair from a modern perspective, but the Romans recognized that there are witnesses to actions and words, but not to intentions.
Thus were ceated lawyers. You argue interminably about the wording of the constitution and it's meaning.
You even name cities after famous romans
Cincinnati is named after a famous Roman dictator, inspiring stuff
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/rule ... nnatus.htm
Vikings? At one point the descendants of vikings sat on every throne in europe, surprisingly eclectic in their approach to rule. our modern democracy owes a great deal to viking/celtic european tribal tradition and customs in a basic egalitarianism that is uniquely european in origin. (IMO that is )
So Bush's family had connections to the nazis-they have them now to the saudis.
None of that is a big secret. You voted for him.
Henry Ford was not only a well known anti semite (so was Walt Disney) he helped finance the early Nazi party as did not a few other industrialists. even jewish ones before they realised the mistake. Hitler started out as leading a democratic party with less than 20% of the vote and gained much support for his anti communist stance, all around the world. It was only later it became clear where it was going to lead. The Kennedy's built their financial empire with the help of the mob and prohibition. So heroes have feet of clay. Churchill was a man of his times and once he had served the way people wanted him to he got kicked out because the British people were not fighting to preserve the British Empire, that sentiment went in WW1. They wanted socialism and the welfare state not more of what things were like before.
Machiavelli was arguably trying to ingratiate himself with the prince who took over the venetian republic.
http://www.philosophers.co.uk/cafe/phil_aug2002.htm
Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527) was primarily a diplomat and spin-doctor, committed to enhancing the power of his native city republic, Florence. When the Medici family ousted the republicans, Machiavelli was treated with suspicion and eventually accused of plotting against the Medici.
In 1513, Machiavelli was tortured, and retired to a farm - an internal exile. There he wrote Il Principe (The Prince) - a gift for the powerful Medici. Machiavelli hoped that his exposition on how rulers should secure power would re-ignite his political career, even if in support of the princely dictators. The Prince failed in that, but brought him posthumous fame - fame as the political philosopher best known for (seemingly) being prepared to justify any means for political preservation. He later wrote the Discourses, justifying republicanism, and The Art of War, arguing for a citizen militia rather than mercenaries.
The blame game is endless Bush was doing what everybody else was at the time.
I'd worry more about the present day military industrial complex and what they are up to than what went on in the past-although maybe a warning from history wouldn't go amiss at any time. When politicians advocate warfare as an instrument of diplomacy to preserve national interests who gets to die?
No doubt Osama Bin laden sees himself as a moral person doing his best for humanity just as bush and TB do. Then again you need a well developed sense of irony to get the humour of it all.
Hitler and the Bush family.
ArnoldLayne wrote: if we were to be tarred for the crimes of our fathers and forefathers I'd be willing to bet most of us wouldnt get up in the morning
Don't look at me, man, my ancestors were Vikings. Half of Europe would probably line up on my family if this happened.
Don't look at me, man, my ancestors were Vikings. Half of Europe would probably line up on my family if this happened.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Hitler and the Bush family.
Scrat wrote: American soldiers are dying while people make a huge profit from it. I think that that is valid. :pMajor General Smedley Butler of the United States Marine Corps said as much quite forcefully in his book "War is a Racket". It's quite short and well worth reading.
Chapter 4 is a good starting point, given the thread - you can read it at http://www.metaphoria.org/War_is_a_rack ... TER%20FOUR
Chapter 4 is a good starting point, given the thread - you can read it at http://www.metaphoria.org/War_is_a_rack ... TER%20FOUR
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Hitler and the Bush family.
moverguy wrote: OK my Kilted friend, I think you are going a bit overboard, just a wee bit, OK?
Your point being?
Your point being?