How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

Read the Article here.



The latest Supreme Court case about abortion is to decide if a girl has to get permission from - or at least notify - her mommy and daddy before she gets an abortion. Since when does the bad judgment to get pregnant suddenly make a child an adult, capable of making life-altering decisions? *any bets the really angry people will not stay on the point?*



Unless and until we legally declare that life and citizenship begins when the first stem cell divides, abortion is no more than a simple procedure like a cyst removal, and therefore unworthy of having its own legislature. I believe I've made my personal beliefs on abortion in general clear in earlier posts not very long ago, so I won't go into that.



But a minor is a minor, legally unable to make adult decisions. Parents are - or at least should be - responsible for making such weighty decisions. I don't see how a teenage girl is suddenly and magically transformed into an adult simply because she gets pregnant. And yet, she still can't get liposuction, a tonsilectomy, or a tattoo without parental consent. Children need parents to make decisions for them, full stop. Abortion is no different. There are already procedures in place for children to get emergency medical care when the parents shirk their responsibility.
User avatar
Peg
Posts: 8673
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Peg »

This is such a tough call. As the mother of a 16 year old daughter, I would hope I've raised my daughter to feel she could come to me with this. A lot of girls can't or feel they can't. I do not believe in abortion other than for medical reasons, but I would hope I wouldn't feel compelled to force my feeling onto my daughter. My main worry with making the girl tell her parents is that she may be so scared, she'd go to some butcher to do it.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

Peg wrote: This is such a tough call. As the mother of a 16 year old daughter, I would hope I've raised my daughter to feel she could come to me with this. A lot of girls can't or feel they can't. I do not believe in abortion other than for medical reasons, but I would hope I wouldn't feel compelled to force my feeling onto my daughter. My main worry with making the girl tell her parents is that she may be so scared, she'd go to some butcher to do it.It's your job to "force your feelings" onto your daughter. You've been doing it all her life. Hopefully it took. :yh_flower
User avatar
Peg
Posts: 8673
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Peg »

I don't want to get off topic especially so early in a thread, but it is not my job to force my feelings onto my children. It is my job to give them the tools they need to make wise decisions as the approach adulthood. The world doesn't need a younger clone of me.:wah:

I just asked my daughter, "If you were pregnant, would you tell me?" She said, "Yes." I asked, "If you wanted an abortion would you tell me?" She said, "yes". She doesn't believe in abortion either.:D
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

Peg wrote: I don't want to get off topic especially so early in a thread, but it is not my job to force my feelings onto my children. It is my job to give them the tools they need to make wise decisions as the approach adulthood. The world doesn't need a younger clone of me.:wah:It could do worse. :-6



Okay that's enough! Back to the subject at hand!
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

flopstock wrote: So, what you are saying is that if the parent does not want the kid to have that child, it is up to the parent also?Yup. The parent's the decision-maker until that child is all growed up.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

flopstock wrote: I could be wrong, but I think your statement is false. Unless you define all grown up as having a body which has reached its reproductive years.I'm talking legality. Planned Parenthood is calling girls with functioning reproductive organs women, as if physical maturity automatically gives them emotional maturity. That's what the case is apparently about.
Celtor
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Celtor »

I do agree that it is pretty bogus to say on the one hand that a 16 year old is an adult in this one area, but not adult enough to vote, get a tattoo, or enter into any contractural obligations. It would seem to me that if you're going to allow the one, you allow the others, or you simply don't allow the one.

Maybe if they actually started charging un-married girls who get pregnant in non-rape situations with reckless endangerment or something it would convince teens to get better at using birth control. Not a likely course of action, I figure.

The main problem with not allowing teenagers to seek an abortion without their parents' consent is that many -will- go ahead and try to abort...to the detriment of their own health in some cases.
Celtor
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Celtor »

Also, if the law is upheld and a parent refused to allow their daughter to have an abortion, would it be legally possible for the daughter to sue her parents for child support or other damages? It makes a twisted sort of sense to me.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

Celtor wrote: Also, if the law is upheld and a parent refused to allow their daughter to have an abortion, would it be legally possible for the daughter to sue her parents for child support or other damages? It makes a twisted sort of sense to me.As I see it, the grandparents of the minors are jointly responsible. If one parent is not a minor, well, we call those criminals. Once the children are adults, they can hash that out either among themselves or through the courts.
booradley
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:30 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by booradley »

I have yet to see one post reprehending the fathers in such cases. It takes two.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

booradley wrote: I have yet to see one post reprehending the fathers in such cases. It takes two.Hey! I just called him a criminal if the girl's a minor. :-2



In earlier threads I think we took them to task. What's your opinion about parental notification/consent?
User avatar
StupidCowboyTricks
Posts: 1899
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:51 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

booradley wrote: I have yet to see one post reprehending the fathers in such cases. It takes two.


Maybe if they actually started charging un-married girls who get pregnant in non-rape situations with reckless endangerment or something it would convince teens to get better at using birth control. Not a likely course of action, I figure.

I'm going to guess a man wrote this.:-3
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)









booradley
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:30 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by booradley »

Celtor wrote: Also, if the law is upheld and a parent refused to allow their daughter to have an abortion, would it be legally possible for the daughter to sue her parents for child support or other damages? It makes a twisted sort of sense to me.


there was a case in our local paper of a young girl brought up with a traditional muslim background; she went to typically local schools and had friends from all different backgrounds. I don't know where it all went wrong for this incredibly bright young lady but she became pregnant, hid it for a while, spoke to school counsellers who advised she talk to her parents...she's dead now. Honour killing. She was fifteen.

I would like to think my girls could come to me in such a predicament and talk to me...what they do after that is their decision; their body, their life.
Celtor
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Celtor »

No, I'm female. I just personally have the opinion that if a "woman" wants full control over her reproductive options then she better make damn sure of her birth control methods. If she gets pregnant, yes it takes two to tango, but she is ultimately the one who safe-guards her womb. Obviously I am only referring to consentual situations.

And men are being held much more accountable as far as child support goes thesedays anyhow, it's a foregone conclusion that if there's an "oops", the male involved will have some responsibility. At least in some states.

And obviously both girls and boys could be charged with reckless endangerment; this was all more about the female side, though, so pardon the reckless oversight :-3
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

If we're talking about minors, shouldn't the parents likewise be charged? Seems like negligent endangerment for them, at least.
User avatar
StupidCowboyTricks
Posts: 1899
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:51 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by StupidCowboyTricks »

Celtor wrote: No, I'm female. I just personally have the opinion that if a "woman" wants full control over her reproductive options then she better make damn sure of her birth control methods. If she gets pregnant, yes it takes two to tango, but she is ultimately the one who safe-guards her womb. Obviously I am only referring to consentual situations.



And men are being held much more accountable as far as child support goes thesedays anyhow, it's a foregone conclusion that if there's an "oops", the male involved will have some responsibility. At least in some states.



And obviously both girls and boys could be charged with reckless endangerment; this was all more about the female side, though, so pardon the reckless oversight :-3
Why reckless endangerment?
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)









booradley
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:30 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by booradley »

Accountable wrote: Hey! I just called him a criminal if the girl's a minor. :-2



In earlier threads I think we took them to task. What's your opinion about parental notification/consent?


sorry, just been re-reading. What if they are both minors?

as for parental notification/consent...to be perfectly honest, I'd prefer they were still playing in their rooms polly pocket!
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

booradley wrote: sorry, just been re-reading. What if they are both minors?

as for parental notification/consent...to be perfectly honest, I'd prefer they were still playing in their rooms polly pocket!I don't know about the polly part, but they're definitely playing with pockets. :-2



I do believe both sets of grandparents should be held responsible for the consequences of their children's actions. Too bad they don't have to jointly decide about the abortion.
booradley
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:30 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by booradley »

Accountable wrote: I don't know about the polly part, but they're definitely playing with pockets. :-2



I do believe both sets of grandparents should be held responsible for the consequences of their children's actions. Too bad they don't have to jointly decide about the abortion.


*shakes head* it's not the grandparents baby to decide about. you can't force someone to have/don't have an abortion. Ideally, we should be bringing our daughters up to have enough confidence to say no and our sons to have enough respect and restraint to not push the matter.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

booradley wrote: *shakes head* it's not the grandparents baby to decide about. you can't force someone to have/don't have an abortion. Ideally, we should be bringing our daughters up to have enough confidence to say no and our sons to have enough respect and restraint to not push the matter.You can't allow a child such a weighty decision. It's too much for a kid. The grandparents are responsible for the kid; they will be responsible for the baby. It is their decision, like it or not.
User avatar
Peg
Posts: 8673
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Peg »

Having a baby no more makes a person an adult than the age of 21 means they are mature. I've met a lot of 16 year olds who are more mature than a lot of 21 year olds. Charging them with something such as negligence is only going to make a rough situation rougher.
Celtor
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Celtor »

StupidCowboyTricks wrote: Why reckless endangerment?
It was just an idea...didn't say it was a good one ;)

If this whole issue were easy enough for me to figure out, I'm sure someone whould have done so by now :D
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

flopstock wrote: NOPEI'll let you get away with the first one but not this. Clarify, lady. Clarify.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

Far Rider wrote: We live in an imperfect world, all these things exist. Abortion, extreme religious beliefs, good parent and negligent parents...



Im against abortion personally, so im slanted towards consent, hoping it will cut down on abortion, at the very least the potential for good is in the hands of the family... of course it can equally be bad too. But my gamble is that the more parents are informed the better off the child will be.



it becomes a numbers game...I don't think it's relevant what you're view on abortion is. A minor needs a parent (or parental figure) to make major decisions. Period.
pantsonfire321@aol.com
Posts: 2920
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:26 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

I think the UK has the highest pregnancy rate amongst teens - its amazing i have to give permission for the kid to go on a field trip but if they want a termination behind my back they just go see the school nurse - it did happen here in the UK . some time ago a girl got pregnant had an abortion without her mother knowing the mother went to to the press to complain then about six months later the child got pregnant again an kept the child .
Can go from 0 - to bitch in 3.0 seconds .:D







Smile people :yh_bigsmi







yep, this bitch bites back .;)
User avatar
BTS
Posts: 3202
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:47 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by BTS »

Accountable wrote: I'll let you get away with the first one but not this. Clarify, lady. Clarify.
I think her final answer is:

"NOPE"
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

BTS wrote: I think her final answer is:

"NOPE"Well sure, but it may as well have been written in Swiss for all it means to me. :-2
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

flopstock wrote: The first time my daughter had her period, I made a doctors appointment. When we went in I told the doctor that she had had her first period and that I was giving him permission to answer any questions she had or would have about reproduction and safe sex -that she did not feel comfortable enough discussing with her mother. That I would not raise any objection to any form of birth control the two agreed upon, so long as it was legal. I then left the room.



Now you folks have gotten to know me well enough to know, that there is not much I don't openly and without embarrassment discuss about sex. I don't believe she ever used the option. I do know that a few years later her and her now husband, who had been dating for a couple of years asked to have a talk with me in my living room. They looked scared. And managed to finally, after reminding me of the doctors visit, announce that they thought they had better go see the doctor SOON about birth control.



I had her appointment set in under 24 hrs. I went with them again, told the doctor the same thing i had said a couple of years earlier and left the room.



Now, had she gotten pregnant after that, you show me negligence. They had the maturity to know 'something' was about to pop...lol They had the maturity to address the issue with me and seek medical advise. They had the maturity to follow that advise.



These two kids, knew almost 9 years ago that they did 'it' for each other. They have never wavered from that and are about to have their first child in March. But had they accidently gotten pregnant back then, it wasn't for lack of mature judgement.
Accountable wrote: You can't allow a child such a weighty decision. It's too much for a kid. The grandparents are responsible for the kid; they will be responsible for the baby. It is their decision, like it or not.



My first comment was that if the kids should be charged, the parents should be charged as well. I stand by that. Parents should be held responsible for the acts of their minor children.



The second comment (quoted) stands. You gave your kid the tools to make decisions about sex. Fine. I still think that to give a 14-year-old the responsibility of making a life-or-death choice, when her parent is available to take on that responsibility, is wrong.



And I can't turn off the italics. Please ignore them.
ComfortablyNumb
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:35 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by ComfortablyNumb »

I think that it's ludicrous that a parent has Care, Custody and Control EXCEPT in certain medical matters.

Hell yes, parents should have all three Cs in EVERYTHING until the child is adult (18 in U.K).

They can't get married without parental permission until they're 18. Can't leave home without permission until 17 (so if you're going to make parents responsible for their idiocy that age should be raised to 18 too).

We still have laws in England from Edwardian times about 'moral terpitude', which covers a lot of crimes including lewd sexual acts. I wish that these were more widely used to discourage immorality in teenagers.
User avatar
abbey
Posts: 15069
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by abbey »

flopstock wrote: Nope, if you are old enough to become pregnant you are old enough for the responcibility that comes with it.Not always.

http://www.sexualrecords.com/WSRprev.html
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

flopstock wrote: Nope, if you are old enough to become pregnant you are old enough for the responcibility that comes with it.That's as young as 10! Are we going to put a 10-year-old out on her own with a kid to earn a living?
User avatar
abbey
Posts: 15069
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:00 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by abbey »

flopstock wrote: hey jj!:-2 BAD GIRL. :wah: :wah:
Azrayel
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:46 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Azrayel »

wow! very interesting thread! I personally believe in the right of abortion. Not to say that I would ever use that right, but it is not up to me to decide wether or not you should. As far as the parents of the child taking responsibility over the girls actions , I agree to a point. The parents should have a definite say in what goes on but they should not be able to force the child into the situation. (I use the word child to define what I believe a child is. A person who is not yet self sufficient and has no way of supporting themselves or others with out help.) By the parents forcing the child that is in that fragile of a state of mind. The child might feel that having the baby is the best way to show everyone how responsible they are. It may also tear the family apart. Unfortunatly if the child agrees to have the abortion, than the may use it as a second type of birth control. I don't think that we can come up with one solution that would make everyone happy. So I say let's stick with free will. I can't control what happens in your house just as much as you can control what happens in mine.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

Azrayel wrote: wow! very interesting thread! I personally believe in the right of abortion. Not to say that I would ever use that right, but it is not up to me to decide wether or not you should. As far as the parents of the child taking responsibility over the girls actions , I agree to a point. The parents should have a definite say in what goes on but they should not be able to force the child into the situation. (I use the word child to define what I believe a child is. A person who is not yet self sufficient and has no way of supporting themselves or others with out help.) By the parents forcing the child that is in that fragile of a state of mind. The child might feel that having the baby is the best way to show everyone how responsible they are. It may also tear the family apart. Unfortunatly if the child agrees to have the abortion, than the may use it as a second type of birth control. I don't think that we can come up with one solution that would make everyone happy. So I say let's stick with free will. I can't control what happens in your house just as much as you can control what happens in mine.But if the child is a child by your definition, you're allowing the child to force the decision on the adults, are you not?



A pregnant child is still a child. The parents are responsible to make the decision to abort, raise the baby, or (hope of all hopes) allow a loving family to adopt and raise the child. It's good parenting to walk the child through the decision process, but the dicision belongs to the parents. They are also responsible to make sure that whoever raped the child is brought to justice.



I also say let's stick with free will - the free will of the responsible adult(s).
Azrayel
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:46 pm

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Azrayel »

of course the parents in the end should make the decision, but I think the girl that is pregnant should not be forced to do it. As a parent I would like to think that if this situation ever did come up I could talk to my child and show her why I am doing it. I wouldn't drag her down there kicking and screaming so that she would hate me for the rest of her life. Part of being a parent is to teach your kids and help them grow.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

Azrayel wrote: of course the parents in the end should make the decision, but I think the girl that is pregnant should not be forced to do it. As a parent I would like to think that if this situation ever did come up I could talk to my child and show her why I am doing it. I wouldn't drag her down there kicking and screaming so that she would hate me for the rest of her life. Part of being a parent is to teach your kids and help them grow.Ideally, of course.



Naturally, I'd prefer you drag her kicking and screaming to prenatal care, if anywhere.
User avatar
actionfigurestepho
Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:32 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by actionfigurestepho »

If I'd have become pregnant at 12 or 13 I know I'd have leaned heavily on my parents to help me make my decision. The beginning of puberty is NOT the time of reason. I think of even minor things I'd did back then that I'd wish I'd consulted them on. In the long run, I think if you have a good family life you're going to want to make decisions that fit in with your family's value structure. I'm not sure parents should be able to abdicate the decision, since obviously not all parents are wonderful people, but they should certainly be required to be present for all the appointments and counselling.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

How is a Pregnant Teen Suddenly a Woman?

Post by Accountable »

Full Story



Utah Legislature Considers Parental Permission for Minors Seeking Abortions

The Salt Lake Tribune

Rebecca Walsh

January 10, 2006

Jan. 10--Utah's law requiring doctors to notify a girl's parents before she has an abortion has been untouched for more than 30 years -- unchallenged by abortion rights advocates and untinkered with by state legislators.

The statute, apparently, works.

And normally, Ogden dairy farmer Kerry Gibson wouldn't create a conflict where one doesn't exist. But the freshman Republican lawmaker has a 10-year-old daughter, and that has everything to do with his decision to sponsor legislation requiring parental consent before a minor can have an abortion in Utah.



Post Reply

Return to “Abortion”