IRELAND THE European Union (EU)

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:27 am

Ireland was a very backward country until we join the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1973. Most of our famers and Irish business people jumped at the chance of being part of a new community of european member states and as they were hoodwinked into it,they still believed in the Irish Government of the day. The politicans and their business partners went on to make some real money.

We were also told that at last Ireland could stand on its own feet and that we don't need the Uk no more. The Germans and the French would look out for us and we had only to ask. But that all changed in 1989 when we woke up to reality,the many people who voted YES for europe soon were to find out that the EU gives the orders from now on. I myself,voted No. http://www.euro2004.ie/

Over the years the EU has got to large,25 member states. Some are saying its a new Roman Empire. Some others say, its heading for a new Hitler superstate more

powerful than the United States. We have seen this superstate telling the USA off in regards to Iraq. We also see every day attacks on the Jewish community in France and Germany. We also see the Far Right Nazi movement rise in all EU member states. There is now a push to get the United Kingdom to come in as a full member. If Hitler was alive today,he would perhaps say,Why did not I think of that EU,and win and take over europe without a shot fired.

Next year Europe elects its first EU President. And will the other economic communities rise up in Asia uniteing all Asian countries,or perhaps Africa uniteing all African nations.

http://www.europarl.eu.int

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:41 am

So what will the imigration policy be of the EU?

Not planning to move. Just curious:)

Will the boarders between states be a nonevents like crossing state lines in the USA or is this just a retorical union?

Lotto

http://www.flalottomagic.net/cgi-local/ ... elcome-344

MagicZ4941A

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:09 am

EU Parliamnent www.europarl.eu.int

This above you should find all the answers to in regards to question on EU Member States.

The EU offices in the United States www.eurounion.org

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:43 am

Humph. IMO the whole political thing's a ghastly dog's dinner of disagreement, sleaze, fraud and ineffectuality/inefficiency with totalitarian ideas and fascist leanings.

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:49 am

So if I have to look it up then it is probabally just a retorical union?

Lotto

http://www.flalottomagic.net/cgi-local/ ... elcome-344

MagicZ4941

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:54 am

Bill Sikes wrote: Humph. IMO the whole political thing's a ghastly dog's dinner of disagreement, sleaze, fraud and ineffectuality/inefficiency with totalitarian ideas and fascist leanings.

And the Facist grows Momentum

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:18 am

LottomagicZ4941 wrote: So if I have to look it up then it is probabally just a retorical union?

What??

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:19 am

capt_buzzard wrote: And the Fasist grows Momentum

Secrecy.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:40 am

Hmmm Mr Sikes

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:31 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Hmmm Mr Sikes

Hmmm? I need some context... you're saying that the machinations of the thing that is EU are visible, and not sort of, er, like, well, extremely secret to a few? Not that we mind, of course, 'cos we know it's for our own good. Yup.

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:19 pm

Perhaps my question was not clear.

I am wondering if the EU will be like the USA. Will people be able to go from country to country at will?

And by at will I mean with out papers or permission. I live in Colorado and could if I choose move to any state in the union. Will someone from Turkey be able to move to Germany?

That is what I mean by a real union as apposed to a retorical union.

Lotto

http://www.flalottomagic.net/cgi-local/ ... elcome-344

MagicZ4941A

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:22 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: Hmmm? I need some context... you're saying that the machinations of the thing that is EU are visible, and not sort of, er, like, well, extremely secret to a few? Not that we mind, of course, 'cos we know it's for our own good. Yup.
The BNP should be your guide to information here

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:03 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: Ireland was a very backward country until we join the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1973. Most of our famers and Irish business people jumped at the chance of being part of a new community of european member states and as they were hoodwinked into it,they still believed in the Irish Government of the day. The politicans and their business partners went on to make some real money.

We were also told that at last Ireland could stand on its own feet and that we don't need the Uk no more. The Germans and the French would look out for us and we had only to ask. But that all changed in 1989 when we woke up to reality,the many people who voted YES for europe soon were to find out that the EU gives the orders from now on. I myself,voted No. http://www.euro2004.ie/

Over the years the EU has got to large,25 member states. Some are saying its a new Roman Empire. Some others say, its heading for a new Hitler superstate more

powerful than the United States. We have seen this superstate telling the USA off in regards to Iraq. We also see every day attacks on the Jewish community in France and Germany. We also see the Far Right Nazi movement rise in all EU member states. There is now a push to get the United Kingdom to come in as a full member. If Hitler was alive today,he would perhaps say,Why did not I think of that EU,and win and take over europe without a shot fired.

Next year Europe elects its first EU President. And will the other economic communities rise up in Asia uniteing all Asian countries,or perhaps Africa uniteing all African nations.

http://www.europarl.eu.intI was considering asking all afternoon what the EU was. How positively frightening. Jews have been saying for years that the holocust could happen again. No one believed them. Its all just a struggle to be captain of the hill by a handful of egotists with a desire for power and to run the world. Oh God Ive always felt such the fool for longing for a more peaceful time like I experienced in the seventies. Why are people letting this happen? Dont they all know that there is power in numbers and that we have the power to bring things back to the way they used to be. You are so far away, and yet I feel that you are so close..... Ive loved your country also.. and Ive never been there... because my ancestors are from there. I want only good things for your country too. And for the people from England. I stand on the ground at Jamestown which was the first english settlement in the US and get chills. We are all joined together my friend.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:14 pm

LottomagicZ4941 wrote: Perhaps my question was not clear.

I am wondering if the EU will be like the USA. Will people be able to go from country to country at will?

And by at will I mean with out papers or permission. I live in Colorado and could if I choose move to any state in the union. Will someone from Turkey be able to move to Germany?

That is what I mean by a real union as apposed to a retorical union.

Lotto

http://www.flalottomagic.net/cgi-local/ ... elcome-344

MagicZ4941A Turkey is not a member of the EU yet. Yes, we can move about freely in other Member States, just like you can in the US. We can even settle up home in another member state. Apply to work in another member state ect. But I feel this will all change for security reasons in the near future.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:16 pm

weeder wrote: I was considering asking all afternoon what the EU was. How positively frightening. Jews have been saying for years that the holocust could happen again. No one believed them. Its all just a struggle to be captain of the hill by a handful of egotists with a desire for power and to run the world. Oh God Ive always felt such the fool for longing for a more peaceful time like I experienced in the seventies. Why are people letting this happen? Dont they all know that there is power in numbers and that we have the power to bring things back to the way they used to be. You are so far away, and yet I feel that you are so close..... Ive loved your country also.. and Ive never been there... because my ancestors are from there. I want only good things for your country too. And for the people from England. I stand on the ground at Jamestown which was the first english settlement in the US and get chills. We are all joined together my friend. No I don't think that the Jewish Holocust will happen again in Europe.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:55 am

posted by bill sikes

Humph. IMO the whole political thing's a ghastly dog's dinner of disagreement, sleaze, fraud and ineffectuality/inefficiency with totalitarian ideas and fascist leanings.

At the moment but it doesn't have to stay like that. That ws the point of the eu constitution to put power in the hands of the eu parliament and away from the commissioners. They just got a good lesson over the appointment of the last set. It's not perfect but standing back shouting abuse is not constructive. 70% of our manufacturing trade is with europe, the only reason we had all the much vaunted inward investment of the 70's and eighties was because we were pasrt of the eec and within the tariff walls. We are soi connected to europe you cannot see the jooin. The alternative is being a backward economy on the arse end of europe

Like cap'n buzzard I too live in a country that has benefited from the EEC, specifically the regional development policy. When people ask how have we benefited it is a simple matter to suggest they drive round and look at where the RDF was spent. There are road links now that left to westminster alone would quite simply not have been built.

It's not likely to end up some kind of totalitarian super state, do you really think the dutch, belgians austrians Greeks etc are likely to tolerate being ruled by france and germany or are any less nationalistec than we are. It's so bad for you that eastern european countries are desperate to join in.

We now have a freedom of information act thanks to the EU. A european court where you can take cases against the government. That last one has been used with great success on several occassions.

Whether you like it or not what europe decides will affect you, better to be part of the process and able to change things than be outside.

Who does TB appoint as commissioner? Mandy that's who, a fine example of an upstanding moral person, just the sort you want to have in a position of influence. Course he won't take advantage will he?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:02 am

capt_buzzard wrote: The BNP should be your guide to information here

I don't understand that - I hope you're not implying that I have any sympathy for the BNP. I require you to explain the above remark.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:03 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Yes, we can move about freely in other Member States, just like you can in the US.

That's not true. Try doing it without a passport. You won't get far.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:13 am

posted by bill sikes: Humph. IMO the whole political thing's a ghastly dog's dinner of disagreement, sleaze, fraud and ineffectuality/inefficiency with totalitarian ideas and fascist leanings.

gmc wrote: At the moment but it doesn't have to stay like that. That ws the point of the eu constitution to put power in the hands of the eu parliament and away from the commissioners. They just got a good lesson over the appointment of the last set.

They may have had a lesson, but they have not seemed to learn *anything*. Who can or will hold them to account? No-one, it seems.

gmc wrote: 70% of our manufacturing trade is with europe, the only reason we had all the much vaunted inward investment of the 70's and eighties was because we were pasrt of the eec and within the tariff walls.

Yes, the EEC. We still manufacture anything? What I object to is, however, not the EEC, but the "EU".

gmc wrote: We are soi connected to europe you cannot see the jooin. The alternative is being a backward economy on the arse end of europe

What, like Norway, Switzerland?

gmc wrote: Like cap'n buzzard I too live in a country that has benefited from the EEC, specifically the regional development policy. When people ask how have we benefited it is a simple matter to suggest they drive round and look at where the RDF was spent. There are road links now that left to westminster alone would quite simply not have been built.

I assume that the Scottish Parliament would have done the job...

gmc wrote: It's not likely to end up some kind of totalitarian super state, do you really think the dutch, belgians austrians Greeks etc are likely to tolerate being ruled by france and germany or are any less nationalistec than we are. It's so bad for you that eastern european countries are desperate to join in.

I don't think it will end up as anything. Why is it bad for *me* that Eastern European countries want to join? It may be very bad for them. "Out of the frying-pan".

gmc wrote: We now have a freedom of information act thanks to the EU. A european court where you can take cases against the government. That last one has been used with great success on several occassions.

We couldn't "take cases against the government" already, then?

gmc wrote: Whether you like it or not what europe decides will affect you, better to be part of the process and able to change things than be outside.

We can't change things. That is part of my issue.

gmc wrote: Who does TB appoint as commissioner? Mandy that's who, a fine example of an upstanding moral person, just the sort you want to have in a position of influence. Course he won't take advantage will he?

Well, yes. How many more Mandies are there with their noses in the trough, or with their vested interests at heart, I wonder? Possibly not a few....

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:29 am

Bill Sikes wrote: That's not true. Try doing it without a passport. You won't get far. The passport will be replaced next year by an ID card.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:31 am

Many people in Britain are Anti EU. I cannot blame them or even Anti Irish too.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:35 am

Bill Sikes wrote: I don't understand that - I hope you're not implying that I have any sympathy for the BNP. I require you to explain the above remark. I was not implying that you had any sympathy with the BNP. What I said was meant was that for Facist leanings and information on such, the BNP was the nearest ike to any other such group in Europe

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:37 am

capt_buzzard wrote: The passport will be replaced next year by an ID card.

No it won't. The ID card, if it actually materialises, will be an addition to the passport, not a replacement. At the moment it is proposed that ID cards be issued from 2008 with "biometric" passports.

For a few opinions:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do2101.xml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... dt2101.xml

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:51 am

OK you win. If its 2008. Whats another year.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:04 am

capt_buzzard wrote: I was not implying that you had any sympathy with the BNP. What I said was meant was that for Facist leanings and information on such, the BNP was the nearest ike to any other such group in Europe

Thanks! I was about to get all excited....

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:05 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Many people in Britain are Anti EU. I cannot blame them or even Anti Irish too.

I haven't heard much in the way of anti-Irish sentiment, if any.... perhaps a bit of jealousy (for living in such a nice place...)?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:07 am

capt_buzzard wrote: OK you win. If its 2008. Whats another year.

I don't know what the situation is in the Irish Republic... are you considering ID cards, or do you have them?

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:16 am

Bill Sikes wrote: I don't know what the situation is in the Irish Republic... are you considering ID cards, or do you have them? Yes. They are talking about introducing ID cards here. I would be for it myself. But the Council for Civil Liberties, and Irish Nationalist groups are against it.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:25 am

posted by bill sikes

I assume that the Scottish Parliament would have done the job...

Imagine please a smiley denoting hysterical laughter.

posted by bill sikes

We couldn't "take cases against the government" already, then?

Nope. try taking the financial services authority on for instance. There is a group ofd equitable life policy holders going to the european court wanting to sue the FSA. In UK law as a regulatory body cannot be held accountable for it's actions or incompetence. So far as equitable life is concerned they do have a case to answer. Once they make a decision there is currently no right of appeal.

The Law Lords have just the government they can't hold suspected terrorists without trial. If they don't act to release or try them then the next point of call is the european court.

posted by bill sikes

They may have had a lesson, but they have not seemed to learn *anything*. Who can or will hold them to account? No-one, it seems.

At the moment that is true. That was the point of the EU constitution to lay down the parameters and make the commisioners accountable to the EU parliament.

Bear in mind TB is supposed to accountable to parliament, do you think he is at the moment?

posted by bill sikes

We can't change things. That is part of my issue.

If we do not take part we have no chance of affecting anything.

posted by bill sikes

I don't think it will end up as anything. Why is it bad for *me* that Eastern European countries want to join? It may be very bad for them. "Out of the frying-pan"

posted by me

It's so bad for you that eastern european countries are desperate to join in.

I was being facetious, I meant all of them are eager to become members because they see the benefit it will bring to them in getting their economies going. We need to do business with each other.

Yes we still manufacture things. When you look at businesses anti eec you find very few of them actually export. By contrast companies that do are very much in favour. In Scotland we have our exports hit by US sanctions in response to the agriculture dispute. It rather brings home the need to be part of a large trading group rather than a small country depending on the largesse of others squealing wnem people treat us unfairly. We also trade quite extensively with the far East which is likely to be as equally important a market as the US is currently.

The US is party to the nafta agreements and are working towards pan american trade agreements. We are likely I think to end up with three large trading blocs (George Orwell springs to mind)

Personally I agree there is a lot wrong with the EEC and proposed EU. But opting out would be throwing out the baby withe bathwater. Our dithering has already altered investment decisions by Toyota, Nissan were on the point of making the Micra in belgium in preference to the UK because of the uncertainty.

I also think we should eventually adopt the Euro when the time is right. Who cares about the Ã‚£, I can never understand why people want to go back to pounds shillings and pence. 144 pennies to the pound, great stuff. Who wants to maesure in pints and quarts, litres are much easier.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:39 am

gmc wrote: Imagine please a smiley denoting hysterical laughter.

Nope. try taking the financial services authority on for instance. There is a group ofd equitable life policy holders going to the european court wanting to sue the FSA. In UK law as a regulatory body cannot be held accountable for it's actions or incompetence. So far as equitable life is concerned they do have a case to answer. Once they make a decision there is currently no right of appeal.

The Law Lords have just the government they can't hold suspected terrorists without trial. If they don't act to release or try them then the next point of call is the european court.

.

At the moment that is true. That was the point of the EU constitution to lay down the parameters and make the commisioners accountable to the EU parliament.

Bear in mind TB is supposed to accountable to parliament, do you think he is at the moment?

If we do not take part we have no chance of affecting anything.

I was being facetious, I meant all of them are eager to become members because they see the benefit it will bring to them in getting their economies going. We need to do business with each other.

Yes we still manufacture things. When you look at businesses anti eec you find very few of them actually export. By contrast companies that do are very much in favour. In Scotland we have our exports hit by US sanctions in response to the agriculture dispute. It rather brings home the need to be part of a large trading group rather than a small country depending on the largesse of others squealing wnem people treat us unfairly. We also trade quite extensively with the far East which is likely to be as equally important a market as the US is currently.

The US is party to the nafta agreements and are working towards pan american trade agreements. We are likely I think to end up with three large trading blocs (George Orwell springs to mind)

Personally I agree there is a lot wrong with the EEC and proposed EU. But opting out would be throwing out the baby withe bathwater. Our dithering has already altered investment decisions by Toyota, Nissan were on the point of making the Micra in belgium in preference to the UK because of the uncertainty.

I also think we should eventually adopt the Euro when the time is right. Who cares about the Ã‚£, I can never understand why people want to go back to pounds shillings and pence. 144 pennies to the pound, great stuff. Who wants to maesure in pints and quarts, litres are much easier. You said that George Orwell springs to mind. I say Holy Roman Empire Revisited, but its only in its infancy.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:48 am

Pope JP 11 has demanded an early interview with the Eastern Orthodox church, to try and bring East & West together. Many other links are being set, also Episcopalian and Lutheran alliance is being forged. Many other Protestant Churches in Europe, this so called ecumenical movement is growing momentum to bring all the flock back under the Mother Church - the Roman Catholic Church.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:50 am

Posted by capn buzzard

You said that George Orwell springs to mind. I say Holy Roman Empire Revisited, but its only in its infancy.

I've read those sort of prophecies as well. Personally i think they are a load of rubbish. Not a single one of these so called soothsayers has foreseen anything except by virtue of hindsight.

posted by bill sikes

I haven't heard much in the way of anti-Irish sentiment, if any.... perhaps a bit of jealousy (for living in such a nice place...)?

Ditto, plenty sectarianism but the irish bit is almost ignored. Though if you point out that the scots invaded from Ireland you can start a good agruement.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:56 am

Bill Sikes wrote: I don't know what the situation is in the Irish Republic... are you considering ID cards, or do you have them? This ID card we are being told it will contain your date of birth, tax/insurance number, religion and home area/distrist. Note please that Religion is to be included. Christian, Muslim or Jewish and other.