Cheney was substituting at the event for President Bush, who was giving a speech in Pennsylvania defending the war on terror and invasion of Iraq.
With the number of men permanently disabled and killed for his War on Terror, you think the man could take a couple hours out of his day to pay respects at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers!
Sorry, but any niggling of respect I might have had for the man is gone.
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Umm, in case who ever wrote that little ditty didn't know..the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has been fought by men in the service, which makes them vets.
So, the problem with him being some place else having to do with todays dead, serving and have served bothers you in what way?
Strange.
So, the problem with him being some place else having to do with todays dead, serving and have served bothers you in what way?
Strange.
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
LilacDragon wrote: With the number of men permanently disabled and killed for his War on Terror, you think the man could take a couple hours out of his day to pay respects at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers!
Sorry, but any niggling of respect I might have had for the man is gone.
So what is the beeF
Could it be what he said in PA that upsets you?
here are just a few quotes:
And our debate at home must also be fair-minded. One of the hallmarks of a free society and what makes our country strong is that our political leaders can discuss their differences openly, even in times of war. When I made the decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power, Congress approved it with strong bipartisan support. I also recognize that some of our fellow citizens and elected officials didn't support the liberation of Iraq. And that is their right, and I respect it. As President and Commander-in-Chief, I accept the responsibilities, and the criticisms, and the consequences that come with such a solemn decision.
While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began. (Applause.) Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war. These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.
They also know that intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein. They know the United Nations passed more than a dozen resolutions citing his development and possession of weapons of mass destruction. And many of these critics supported my opponent during the last election, who explained his position to support the resolution in the Congress this way: "When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security."
That's why more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate -- who had access to the same intelligence -- voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power. (Applause.) The stakes in the global war on terror are too high, and the national interest is too important, for politicians to throw out false charges. (Applause.) These baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America's will.
As our troops fight a ruthless enemy determined to destroy our way of life, they deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them to war continue to stand behind them. (Applause.) Our troops deserve to know that this support will remain firm when the going gets tough. (Applause.) And our troops deserve to know that whatever our differences in Washington, our will is strong, our nation is united, and we will settle for nothing less than victory. (Applause.)
Sorry, but any niggling of respect I might have had for the man is gone.
So what is the beeF
Could it be what he said in PA that upsets you?
here are just a few quotes:
And our debate at home must also be fair-minded. One of the hallmarks of a free society and what makes our country strong is that our political leaders can discuss their differences openly, even in times of war. When I made the decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power, Congress approved it with strong bipartisan support. I also recognize that some of our fellow citizens and elected officials didn't support the liberation of Iraq. And that is their right, and I respect it. As President and Commander-in-Chief, I accept the responsibilities, and the criticisms, and the consequences that come with such a solemn decision.
While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began. (Applause.) Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war. These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.
They also know that intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein. They know the United Nations passed more than a dozen resolutions citing his development and possession of weapons of mass destruction. And many of these critics supported my opponent during the last election, who explained his position to support the resolution in the Congress this way: "When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security."
That's why more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate -- who had access to the same intelligence -- voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power. (Applause.) The stakes in the global war on terror are too high, and the national interest is too important, for politicians to throw out false charges. (Applause.) These baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America's will.
As our troops fight a ruthless enemy determined to destroy our way of life, they deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them to war continue to stand behind them. (Applause.) Our troops deserve to know that this support will remain firm when the going gets tough. (Applause.) And our troops deserve to know that whatever our differences in Washington, our will is strong, our nation is united, and we will settle for nothing less than victory. (Applause.)
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
-
StupidCowboyTricks
- Posts: 1899
- Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:51 pm
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
BTS wrote: So what is the beeF
Could it be what he said in PA that upsets you?
here are just a few quotes:
And our debate at home must also be fair-minded. One of the hallmarks of a free society and what makes our country strong is that our political leaders can discuss their differences openly, even in times of war. When I made the decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power, Congress approved it with strong bipartisan support. I also recognize that some of our fellow citizens and elected officials didn't support the liberation of Iraq. And that is their right, and I respect it. As President and Commander-in-Chief, I accept the responsibilities, and the criticisms, and the consequences that come with such a solemn decision.
While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began. (Applause.) Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war. These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.
They also know that intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein. They know the United Nations passed more than a dozen resolutions citing his development and possession of weapons of mass destruction. And many of these critics supported my opponent during the last election, who explained his position to support the resolution in the Congress this way: "When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security."
That's why more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate -- who had access to the same intelligence -- voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power. (Applause.) The stakes in the global war on terror are too high, and the national interest is too important, for politicians to throw out false charges. (Applause.) These baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America's will.
As our troops fight a ruthless enemy determined to destroy our way of life, they deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them to war continue to stand behind them. (Applause.) Our troops deserve to know that this support will remain firm when the going gets tough. (Applause.) And our troops deserve to know that whatever our differences in Washington, our will is strong, our nation is united, and we will settle for nothing less than victory. (Applause.)
Yeah he still is trying to sell his war, you know the one that "mission Accomplished" was all about, you know the one with casualties you never see on the tarmac, you know the one where the man in the white house gives million dollar contracts to special interest and croonies....you know the one who is sailing your boat down the river.
Come to the party.....................................
Could it be what he said in PA that upsets you?
here are just a few quotes:
And our debate at home must also be fair-minded. One of the hallmarks of a free society and what makes our country strong is that our political leaders can discuss their differences openly, even in times of war. When I made the decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power, Congress approved it with strong bipartisan support. I also recognize that some of our fellow citizens and elected officials didn't support the liberation of Iraq. And that is their right, and I respect it. As President and Commander-in-Chief, I accept the responsibilities, and the criticisms, and the consequences that come with such a solemn decision.
While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began. (Applause.) Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war. These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.
They also know that intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein. They know the United Nations passed more than a dozen resolutions citing his development and possession of weapons of mass destruction. And many of these critics supported my opponent during the last election, who explained his position to support the resolution in the Congress this way: "When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security."
That's why more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate -- who had access to the same intelligence -- voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power. (Applause.) The stakes in the global war on terror are too high, and the national interest is too important, for politicians to throw out false charges. (Applause.) These baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America's will.
As our troops fight a ruthless enemy determined to destroy our way of life, they deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them to war continue to stand behind them. (Applause.) Our troops deserve to know that this support will remain firm when the going gets tough. (Applause.) And our troops deserve to know that whatever our differences in Washington, our will is strong, our nation is united, and we will settle for nothing less than victory. (Applause.)
Yeah he still is trying to sell his war, you know the one that "mission Accomplished" was all about, you know the one with casualties you never see on the tarmac, you know the one where the man in the white house gives million dollar contracts to special interest and croonies....you know the one who is sailing your boat down the river.
Come to the party.....................................
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
StupidCowboyTricks wrote: Yeah he still is trying to sell his war, you know the one that "mission Accomplished" was all about, you know the one with casualties you never see on the tarmac, you know the one where the man in the white house gives million dollar contracts to special interest and croonies....you know the one who is sailing your boat down the river.
Come to the party.....................................
Yeah he is trying to rally the troops....... Like any good leader would do.
It is left up to him now that all the DeMoRaTs bailed on their original vote to disarm Saddam Insane.
Do you remember they made a choice to support the war on the same intelligence as our president had. The Demos were calling for the removal of Saddam in the 90's, LONG before President Bush took office.........
He is also pointing out the hypocracy of the nay-sayers who were in COMLETE support at the time.
What is that ol saying?????????
"HIND SIGHT IS 20/20"
Come to the party.....................................
Yeah he is trying to rally the troops....... Like any good leader would do.
It is left up to him now that all the DeMoRaTs bailed on their original vote to disarm Saddam Insane.
Do you remember they made a choice to support the war on the same intelligence as our president had. The Demos were calling for the removal of Saddam in the 90's, LONG before President Bush took office.........
He is also pointing out the hypocracy of the nay-sayers who were in COMLETE support at the time.
What is that ol saying?????????
"HIND SIGHT IS 20/20"
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
LilacDragon wrote: With the number of men permanently disabled and killed for his War on Terror, you think the man could take a couple hours out of his day to pay respects at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers!
Sorry, but any niggling of respect I might have had for the man is gone.Unless I'm mistaken, he was there on Memorial day. I think you may be looking for reasons not to respect him.
We're there. If the troops lose morale, more die. If we leave too soon, it will look like cowardice to the cowards. Then we'll see even more activity on our soil. We're in a bad situation, no doubt. It's the President's job to keep spirits high. The more of our infighting the enemy can broadcast to Iraq and Arabia, the better the chances for the Iraqi government's failure.
The key to getting our military out is to embolden the Iraqi people. We can't do that if we don't believe in them. At this point, the most powerful weapon we have is propaganda. I don't care if Bush says Hussein sleeps in a nighty and thong, if it will help end this thing.
Sorry, but any niggling of respect I might have had for the man is gone.Unless I'm mistaken, he was there on Memorial day. I think you may be looking for reasons not to respect him.
We're there. If the troops lose morale, more die. If we leave too soon, it will look like cowardice to the cowards. Then we'll see even more activity on our soil. We're in a bad situation, no doubt. It's the President's job to keep spirits high. The more of our infighting the enemy can broadcast to Iraq and Arabia, the better the chances for the Iraqi government's failure.
The key to getting our military out is to embolden the Iraqi people. We can't do that if we don't believe in them. At this point, the most powerful weapon we have is propaganda. I don't care if Bush says Hussein sleeps in a nighty and thong, if it will help end this thing.
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
BTS wrote: So what is the beeF
Could it be what he said in PA that upsets you?
here are just a few quotes:
And our debate at home must also be fair-minded. One of the hallmarks of a free society and what makes our country strong is that our political leaders can discuss their differences openly, even in times of war. When I made the decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power, Congress approved it with strong bipartisan support. I also recognize that some of our fellow citizens and elected officials didn't support the liberation of Iraq. And that is their right, and I respect it. As President and Commander-in-Chief, I accept the responsibilities, and the criticisms, and the consequences that come with such a solemn decision.
While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began. (Applause.) Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war. These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.
They also know that intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein. They know the United Nations passed more than a dozen resolutions citing his development and possession of weapons of mass destruction. And many of these critics supported my opponent during the last election, who explained his position to support the resolution in the Congress this way: "When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security."
That's why more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate -- who had access to the same intelligence -- voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power. (Applause.) The stakes in the global war on terror are too high, and the national interest is too important, for politicians to throw out false charges. (Applause.) These baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America's will.
As our troops fight a ruthless enemy determined to destroy our way of life, they deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them to war continue to stand behind them. (Applause.) Our troops deserve to know that this support will remain firm when the going gets tough. (Applause.) And our troops deserve to know that whatever our differences in Washington, our will is strong, our nation is united, and we will settle for nothing less than victory. (Applause.)
I can't tell you how happy I was to see him finally stand up to the lies being told by poor political losers. I was just about to join the Bush haters because he was so silent when he needs to be leading. His silence has enabled these baseless lies to take root.
Could it be what he said in PA that upsets you?
here are just a few quotes:
And our debate at home must also be fair-minded. One of the hallmarks of a free society and what makes our country strong is that our political leaders can discuss their differences openly, even in times of war. When I made the decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power, Congress approved it with strong bipartisan support. I also recognize that some of our fellow citizens and elected officials didn't support the liberation of Iraq. And that is their right, and I respect it. As President and Commander-in-Chief, I accept the responsibilities, and the criticisms, and the consequences that come with such a solemn decision.
While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war, it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began. (Applause.) Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence and misled the American people about why we went to war. These critics are fully aware that a bipartisan Senate investigation found no evidence of political pressure to change the intelligence community's judgments related to Iraq's weapons programs.
They also know that intelligence agencies from around the world agreed with our assessment of Saddam Hussein. They know the United Nations passed more than a dozen resolutions citing his development and possession of weapons of mass destruction. And many of these critics supported my opponent during the last election, who explained his position to support the resolution in the Congress this way: "When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security."
That's why more than a hundred Democrats in the House and the Senate -- who had access to the same intelligence -- voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power. (Applause.) The stakes in the global war on terror are too high, and the national interest is too important, for politicians to throw out false charges. (Applause.) These baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and to an enemy that is questioning America's will.
As our troops fight a ruthless enemy determined to destroy our way of life, they deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them to war continue to stand behind them. (Applause.) Our troops deserve to know that this support will remain firm when the going gets tough. (Applause.) And our troops deserve to know that whatever our differences in Washington, our will is strong, our nation is united, and we will settle for nothing less than victory. (Applause.)
I can't tell you how happy I was to see him finally stand up to the lies being told by poor political losers. I was just about to join the Bush haters because he was so silent when he needs to be leading. His silence has enabled these baseless lies to take root.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
nice to see you again Clint!
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
lady cop wrote: nice to see you again Clint!
Thanks LC. It's nice to have a few minutes to spend in the garden.
Thanks LC. It's nice to have a few minutes to spend in the garden.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Clint wrote: I can't tell you how happy I was to see him finally stand up to the lies being told by poor political losers. I was just about to join the Bush haters because he was so silent when he needs to be leading. His silence has enabled these baseless lies to take root.
WOOHOO Clint - I agree. BTS and I are sooo upset we are going to start a new thread about the pre-Iraq liberation. It is liberation of Iraq, given the number of indigenous peoples who had been killed under Saddam. AND the down right dehumanization of women. Where is the ACLU when you need them?
WOOHOO Clint - I agree. BTS and I are sooo upset we are going to start a new thread about the pre-Iraq liberation. It is liberation of Iraq, given the number of indigenous peoples who had been killed under Saddam. AND the down right dehumanization of women. Where is the ACLU when you need them?
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
nvalleyvee wrote: WOOHOO Clint - I agree. BTS and I are sooo upset we are going to start a new thread about the pre-Iraq liberation. It is liberation of Iraq, given the number of indigenous peoples who had been killed under Saddam. AND the down right dehumanization of women. Where is the ACLU when you need them?
ACLU... we never need them. :wah:
ACLU... we never need them. :wah:
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Clint wrote: ACLU... we never need them. :wah:
:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
nvalleyvee wrote: WOOHOO Clint - I agree. BTS and I are sooo upset we are going to start a new thread about the pre-Iraq liberation. It is liberation of Iraq, given the number of indigenous peoples who had been killed under Saddam. AND the down right dehumanization of women. Where is the ACLU when you need them?
But those weren't the reasons that were given for going to war with Iraq this time. The reasons were weapons of mass destruction and the support of terrorists.
Yeah, I expect him to defend his position on the war in Iraq. Just like I expect him to support FEMA for the lousy job they have done in New Orleans. But on Veteran's Day, I expect the Commander In Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces to be at Arlington National Cemetary recognizing the sacrifices that our servicemen (and women) and their families have made.
And I really don't need to look for reasons to dislike him. But hey, I voted and have a right to complain.
But those weren't the reasons that were given for going to war with Iraq this time. The reasons were weapons of mass destruction and the support of terrorists.
Yeah, I expect him to defend his position on the war in Iraq. Just like I expect him to support FEMA for the lousy job they have done in New Orleans. But on Veteran's Day, I expect the Commander In Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces to be at Arlington National Cemetary recognizing the sacrifices that our servicemen (and women) and their families have made.
And I really don't need to look for reasons to dislike him. But hey, I voted and have a right to complain.
Sandi
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
He used intelligence provided by an intelligence community degraded by the Clinton administration. Republicans and Democrats alike looked at that intellegence and decided there was a real threat in Iraq. Now we find out the threat wasn't really the WMD they thought were there. Now we find out the WMD are poeple with bombs on their backs. We have gone to the hornet's nest and surprise!!!! we found hornets. Now we have to deal with the reality of what is there, whether it is what we believed it would be or not.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
LilacDragon wrote:
Yeah, I expect him to defend his position on the war in Iraq. Just like I expect him to support FEMA for the lousy job they have done in New Orleans. But on Veteran's Day, I expect the Commander In Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces to be at Arlington National Cemetary recognizing the sacrifices that our servicemen (and women) and their families have made.
And I really don't need to look for reasons to dislike him. But hey, I voted and have a right to complain.
FEMA.............. Look at how FEMA works with the PREPARED states IE... North Carolina. South Carolina, Florida, Texas............
Then look at how Louisiana handled it...... Please send help down our way, while the other states (people) took care and prepared on their own Their governors worked with FEMA and got er done........ But NOT LA...
That is ALL FEMAs (Bush's) fault to your way of thinking.
Don't take accountabilty..
About not being at Arlington. I believe he was there Memorial day.... Correct me if I am wrong.
If you don't have to look for reasons to dislike a person, why not try to find the things you like about them instead of just spreading negativity?
It will get you nowhere fast....
Yeah, I expect him to defend his position on the war in Iraq. Just like I expect him to support FEMA for the lousy job they have done in New Orleans. But on Veteran's Day, I expect the Commander In Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces to be at Arlington National Cemetary recognizing the sacrifices that our servicemen (and women) and their families have made.
And I really don't need to look for reasons to dislike him. But hey, I voted and have a right to complain.
FEMA.............. Look at how FEMA works with the PREPARED states IE... North Carolina. South Carolina, Florida, Texas............
Then look at how Louisiana handled it...... Please send help down our way, while the other states (people) took care and prepared on their own Their governors worked with FEMA and got er done........ But NOT LA...
That is ALL FEMAs (Bush's) fault to your way of thinking.
Don't take accountabilty..
About not being at Arlington. I believe he was there Memorial day.... Correct me if I am wrong.
If you don't have to look for reasons to dislike a person, why not try to find the things you like about them instead of just spreading negativity?
It will get you nowhere fast....
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
BTS wrote: FEMA.............. Look at how FEMA works with the PREPARED states IE... North Carolina. South Carolina, Florida, Texas............
Then look at how Louisiana handled it...... Please send help down our way, while the other states (people) took care and prepared on their own Their governors worked with FEMA and got er done........ But NOT LA...
That is ALL FEMAs (Bush's) fault to your way of thinking.
Don't take accountabilty..
About not being at Arlington. I believe he was there Memorial day.... Correct me if I am wrong.
If you don't have to look for reasons to dislike a person, why not try to find the things you like about them instead of just spreading negativity?
It will get you nowhere fast....
I can't speak for the dead but I'd bet those who rest at Arlington would want the President to be doing exactly what he was doing. He was defending their honor.
Then look at how Louisiana handled it...... Please send help down our way, while the other states (people) took care and prepared on their own Their governors worked with FEMA and got er done........ But NOT LA...
That is ALL FEMAs (Bush's) fault to your way of thinking.
Don't take accountabilty..
About not being at Arlington. I believe he was there Memorial day.... Correct me if I am wrong.
If you don't have to look for reasons to dislike a person, why not try to find the things you like about them instead of just spreading negativity?
It will get you nowhere fast....
I can't speak for the dead but I'd bet those who rest at Arlington would want the President to be doing exactly what he was doing. He was defending their honor.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
But on Veteran's Day, I expect the Commander In Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces to be at Arlington National Cemetary recognizing the sacrifices that our servicemen (and women) and their families have made.
Memorial Day is for honoring those who have given their lives in the service of their country. Veterans Day is to honor all those (living and dead) who have served. In time of war, the President should be with those veterans who are currently putting their lives on the line. Bush had it right.
Memorial Day is for honoring those who have given their lives in the service of their country. Veterans Day is to honor all those (living and dead) who have served. In time of war, the President should be with those veterans who are currently putting their lives on the line. Bush had it right.
-
StupidCowboyTricks
- Posts: 1899
- Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:51 pm
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
BTS wrote: Yeah he is trying to rally the troops....... Like any good leader would do.
It is left up to him now that all the DeMoRaTs bailed on their original vote to disarm Saddam Insane.
Do you remember they made a choice to support the war on the same intelligence as our president had. The Demos were calling for the removal of Saddam in the 90's, LONG before President Bush took office.........
He is also pointing out the hypocracy of the nay-sayers who were in COMLETE support at the time.
What is that ol saying?????????
"HIND SIGHT IS 20/20"
Come to the party!
It is left up to him now that all the DeMoRaTs bailed on their original vote to disarm Saddam Insane.
Do you remember they made a choice to support the war on the same intelligence as our president had. The Demos were calling for the removal of Saddam in the 90's, LONG before President Bush took office.........
He is also pointing out the hypocracy of the nay-sayers who were in COMLETE support at the time.
What is that ol saying?????????
"HIND SIGHT IS 20/20"
Come to the party!
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
-
StupidCowboyTricks
- Posts: 1899
- Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:51 pm
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Adam Zapple wrote: Memorial Day is for honoring those who have given their lives in the service of their country. Veterans Day is to honor all those (living and dead) who have served. In time of war, the President should be with those veterans who are currently putting their lives on the line. Bush had it right.
Much easier thing to do as he slashes the retirement and health benefits and food stamps that many of your (our Military)use to get by on.
The jerk was out there still trying to sell his war, not honor the ones who served. Come to the party!:)
Much easier thing to do as he slashes the retirement and health benefits and food stamps that many of your (our Military)use to get by on.
The jerk was out there still trying to sell his war, not honor the ones who served. Come to the party!:)
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
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StupidCowboyTricks
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Far Rider wrote: Mine hasn't gone down. And they've taken care of me just fine. I kinda like them nice folks at the VA. The psych docs arent so cool though, they keep trying to get me to wear this funny white jecket that straps in the back?:wah:
So......it's all about you is it?
So......it's all about you is it?
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
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Accountable
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StupidCowboyTricks wrote: So......it's all about you is it?What's your first-hand experience? We vets here haven't had problems.
Read this.
Read this.
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StupidCowboyTricks
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Retired General Urges Better Vets Benefits
Email this Story
Nov 12, 11:06 AM (ET)
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;}
WASHINGTON (AP) - The federal government should strengthen the health care system for veterans, retired Marine Gen. Joseph P. Hoar said Saturday in the Democratic Party's weekly radio address.
Speaking on the Veterans Day weekend, the former U.S. military commander in the Middle East said "President Bush has consistently refused to provide enough" money for veterans' health care.
"Earlier this year, his administration admitted that they were $1 billion short in funding for critical health care services," he said. "They also repeatedly tried to increase the cost of prescription drugs and health care services for veterans nationwide."
The Veterans Affairs Department acknowledged in April that it had underestimated medical care costs. Congress reacted by approving an additional $1.5 billion in emergency funds for the current budget year.
Hoar also said, "Thousands of veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan will require mental health care, yet the Bush administration has not taken action to deal with this emerging problem."
In contrast, Democrats are working to improve the current health care system and strengthen mental health care services, he said. "As a veteran and a former commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, I have seen first hand the kind of sacrifices they are making for us. It's a debt we will never be able to repay," he said. "But we have a special duty to make sure our veterans receive the benefits they have earned and deserve when they return home."
Email this Story
Nov 12, 11:06 AM (ET)
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;}
WASHINGTON (AP) - The federal government should strengthen the health care system for veterans, retired Marine Gen. Joseph P. Hoar said Saturday in the Democratic Party's weekly radio address.
Speaking on the Veterans Day weekend, the former U.S. military commander in the Middle East said "President Bush has consistently refused to provide enough" money for veterans' health care.
"Earlier this year, his administration admitted that they were $1 billion short in funding for critical health care services," he said. "They also repeatedly tried to increase the cost of prescription drugs and health care services for veterans nationwide."
The Veterans Affairs Department acknowledged in April that it had underestimated medical care costs. Congress reacted by approving an additional $1.5 billion in emergency funds for the current budget year.
Hoar also said, "Thousands of veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan will require mental health care, yet the Bush administration has not taken action to deal with this emerging problem."
In contrast, Democrats are working to improve the current health care system and strengthen mental health care services, he said. "As a veteran and a former commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, I have seen first hand the kind of sacrifices they are making for us. It's a debt we will never be able to repay," he said. "But we have a special duty to make sure our veterans receive the benefits they have earned and deserve when they return home."
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
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StupidCowboyTricks
- Posts: 1899
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Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Quote FarRider:
Mine hasn't gone down. And they've taken care of me just fine. I kinda like them nice folks at the VA. The psych docs arent so cool though, they keep trying to get me to wear this funny white jecket that straps in the back?:wah:
:yh_questn
Mine hasn't gone down. And they've taken care of me just fine. I kinda like them nice folks at the VA. The psych docs arent so cool though, they keep trying to get me to wear this funny white jecket that straps in the back?:wah:
:yh_questn
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
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Accountable
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StupidCowboyTricks, I take it from your non-response that you have no firsthand experience in military affairs whatsoever. I suggest you visit your local VA hospital. Talk to some vets. I'm certain you will find some that support your view, and others that will not.
While you're there, thank them for giving you the chance to do what you want with your life. If you see something lacking there, volunteer to help fix it. They can always use volunteers.
The point is, at least then you will have some perspective on which to base your opinion. You may solidify your current position, and that's good. You may change your mind, and that's good. I just want you to have your own position, rather than a news spin.
While you're there, thank them for giving you the chance to do what you want with your life. If you see something lacking there, volunteer to help fix it. They can always use volunteers.
The point is, at least then you will have some perspective on which to base your opinion. You may solidify your current position, and that's good. You may change your mind, and that's good. I just want you to have your own position, rather than a news spin.
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StupidCowboyTricks
- Posts: 1899
- Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:51 pm
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Accountable wrote: StupidCowboyTricks, I take it from your non-response that you have no firsthand experience in military affairs whatsoever. I suggest you visit your local VA hospital. Talk to some vets. I'm certain you will find some that support your view, and others that will not.
While you're there, thank them for giving you the chance to do what you want with your life. If you see something lacking there, volunteer to help fix it. They can always use volunteers.
The point is, at least then you will have some perspective on which to base your opinion. You may solidify your current position, and that's good. You may change your mind, and that's good. I just want you to have your own position, rather than a news spin.
I responded. I also transport many of Vets to Veterans hospital in Long Beach and others coming from San Diego....(many homeless) somehow your stories don't gel.
While you're there, thank them for giving you the chance to do what you want with your life. If you see something lacking there, volunteer to help fix it. They can always use volunteers.
The point is, at least then you will have some perspective on which to base your opinion. You may solidify your current position, and that's good. You may change your mind, and that's good. I just want you to have your own position, rather than a news spin.
I responded. I also transport many of Vets to Veterans hospital in Long Beach and others coming from San Diego....(many homeless) somehow your stories don't gel.
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
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StupidCowboyTricks
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Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Los Angeles Daily News
Bush budget betrays veterans
By George J. Bryjak
Sunday, April 17, 2005 - In his final debate with Sen. John Kerry, President George W. Bush stated that "we're meeting our obligation to our veterans, and the veterans know that ... Veterans are getting very good health care under my administration, and they will continue to do so during the next four years."
The president's pre-election declaration couldn't be farther from the truth.
In his fiscal year 2006 budget proposal, veterans' medical programs would receive an increase of 1.7 percent, significantly less than the 13 percent to 14 percent the Veterans Administration testified that it needs to maintain current levels of service. A substantial portion of this shortfall would have to be made up by veterans whose co-payment for a month's supply of prescription drugs would double from $7 to $15.
In addition, some veterans would be required to pay a $250 "user fee" just to access the VA's health care system. Sen. Daniel K. Akaka noted that increased drug co-payments and user fees will make it "prohibitively expensive" for many veterans to utilize VA clinics and hospitals. The Hawaii Democrat calculated that if the president's budget proposal is passed, more than 192,000 individuals would be forced out of the veteran's health network. The Veterans of Foreign Wars estimates that as many as 220,000 men and women could lose benefits.
The New York Times reports that thousands of Michigan veterans are on waiting lists for medical services, and some reservists returning from Iraq say that they have not received the health care they were promised. A veterans clinic in Pontiac, Mich., has capped new enrollments while cutbacks in an Altoona, Pa., VA hospital are forcing veterans to look elsewhere for medical treatment.
The new budget calls for a reduction of $351 million in the VA's nursing home program as well as $104 million in state grants. This translates to 28,000 fewer funded veterans in state institutions in FY 2006 than in FY 2005. The timing couldn't be worse as the number of veterans over 85 years of age is expected to double in the next eight years. Rep. Lane Evans, D-Ill., is correct in his assessment that the Bush administration "wants to pull the rug out from under our oldest veterans' right at the peak of their need for long-term care services."
Just as thousands of wounded men and women are returning from the Middle East, the FY 2006 budget cuts $4 million from medical and prosthetic research, bringing to $53 million cut from this important work in the last two years. The president's budget also calls for eliminating 3,712 full-time medical care employees, mostly nurses.
According to one estimate, up to 17 percent of service personnel returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have mental health issues ranging from anxiety and readjustment disorders to chronic psychological problems, including psychosis. Will the VA have sufficient funds to provide professional counseling for tens of thousands of soon-to-be-ex-service men and women?
Since Bush took office in 2001, the number of veterans appealing a VA medical decision has increased from 87,291 to almost 155,000. With budget-related staff cuts, an already lengthy appeals process will take even longer. How many veterans will become increasingly ill - or die - waiting for a benefits-related decision?
The president's hatchet job of veterans' medical benefits has been denounced by every major veterans organization in the country. American Legion National Commander Thomas Cadmus said: "No active-duty service member in harm's way should ever have to question the nation's commitment to veterans. This is the wrong message at the wrong time to the wrong constituency."
Thomas H. Corey, National President of Vietnam Veterans of America noted that "It does a disservice to those of us who donned the uniform to defend the rights, principles and freedoms that we hold dear. It does not bode well for those returning from the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan."
Perhaps the most telling remarks of this betrayal were those of John Furgess, VFW commander-in-chief. "The country's 25 million veterans, 2.2 million uniformed members and their families, voted overwhelmingly for this administration last year to make a difference in their lives, yet this budget fails to live up to the nation's obligation to veterans because it doesn't acknowledge that the costs of war continue long after the last shots were fired."
Defending the administration's commitment to veterans, newly appointed Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson said: "We had to make tough decisions. We have to set priorities." It's painfully clear what these priorities are. When the president needs votes, he sports his commander-in-chief jacket and mingles with the troops. But economic decisions reward the only constituency that counts in his administration: the wealthy.
While the proposed VA medical budget is $3.5 billion short of what that agency needs, United for a Fair Economy, an independent think tank, estimates that between 2002 and 2004, the richest 1 percent of Americans received roughly $197 billion in tax breaks. In light of the biggest tax giveaway in history, Undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness David Chu had the audacity to say that providing pensions, health insurance and other benefits for military widows and retirees has "gotten to the point where they are hurtful. They are taking away from the nation's ability to defend itself."
The president's callous indifference to the plight of veterans via his FY 2006 budget proposal is nothing more than a rerun of the FY 2005 budget that was $2.6 billion short of the VA's request. Speaking of the latter proposal, then VFW Commander-in-Chief Edward S. Banas Sr. complained: "This funding package is a disgrace and a sham ... To ask this nation's veterans to subsidize their health care is outrageous. They have already paid for health care with their sweat and their blood."
What could be more damaging to the morale and welfare of the nation's veterans and active duty personnel then to sabotage their sacrifice by underfunding the VA health care budget? The president's fiscal policy regarding both the wealthiest among us and the working and middle-class Americans who defend this country is beyond unpatriotic. It's obscene.
George J. Bryjak is a professor of sociology at the University of San Diego. Write to him by e-mail at bryjak@sandiego.edu
Bush budget betrays veterans
By George J. Bryjak
Sunday, April 17, 2005 - In his final debate with Sen. John Kerry, President George W. Bush stated that "we're meeting our obligation to our veterans, and the veterans know that ... Veterans are getting very good health care under my administration, and they will continue to do so during the next four years."
The president's pre-election declaration couldn't be farther from the truth.
In his fiscal year 2006 budget proposal, veterans' medical programs would receive an increase of 1.7 percent, significantly less than the 13 percent to 14 percent the Veterans Administration testified that it needs to maintain current levels of service. A substantial portion of this shortfall would have to be made up by veterans whose co-payment for a month's supply of prescription drugs would double from $7 to $15.
In addition, some veterans would be required to pay a $250 "user fee" just to access the VA's health care system. Sen. Daniel K. Akaka noted that increased drug co-payments and user fees will make it "prohibitively expensive" for many veterans to utilize VA clinics and hospitals. The Hawaii Democrat calculated that if the president's budget proposal is passed, more than 192,000 individuals would be forced out of the veteran's health network. The Veterans of Foreign Wars estimates that as many as 220,000 men and women could lose benefits.
The New York Times reports that thousands of Michigan veterans are on waiting lists for medical services, and some reservists returning from Iraq say that they have not received the health care they were promised. A veterans clinic in Pontiac, Mich., has capped new enrollments while cutbacks in an Altoona, Pa., VA hospital are forcing veterans to look elsewhere for medical treatment.
The new budget calls for a reduction of $351 million in the VA's nursing home program as well as $104 million in state grants. This translates to 28,000 fewer funded veterans in state institutions in FY 2006 than in FY 2005. The timing couldn't be worse as the number of veterans over 85 years of age is expected to double in the next eight years. Rep. Lane Evans, D-Ill., is correct in his assessment that the Bush administration "wants to pull the rug out from under our oldest veterans' right at the peak of their need for long-term care services."
Just as thousands of wounded men and women are returning from the Middle East, the FY 2006 budget cuts $4 million from medical and prosthetic research, bringing to $53 million cut from this important work in the last two years. The president's budget also calls for eliminating 3,712 full-time medical care employees, mostly nurses.
According to one estimate, up to 17 percent of service personnel returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have mental health issues ranging from anxiety and readjustment disorders to chronic psychological problems, including psychosis. Will the VA have sufficient funds to provide professional counseling for tens of thousands of soon-to-be-ex-service men and women?
Since Bush took office in 2001, the number of veterans appealing a VA medical decision has increased from 87,291 to almost 155,000. With budget-related staff cuts, an already lengthy appeals process will take even longer. How many veterans will become increasingly ill - or die - waiting for a benefits-related decision?
The president's hatchet job of veterans' medical benefits has been denounced by every major veterans organization in the country. American Legion National Commander Thomas Cadmus said: "No active-duty service member in harm's way should ever have to question the nation's commitment to veterans. This is the wrong message at the wrong time to the wrong constituency."
Thomas H. Corey, National President of Vietnam Veterans of America noted that "It does a disservice to those of us who donned the uniform to defend the rights, principles and freedoms that we hold dear. It does not bode well for those returning from the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan."
Perhaps the most telling remarks of this betrayal were those of John Furgess, VFW commander-in-chief. "The country's 25 million veterans, 2.2 million uniformed members and their families, voted overwhelmingly for this administration last year to make a difference in their lives, yet this budget fails to live up to the nation's obligation to veterans because it doesn't acknowledge that the costs of war continue long after the last shots were fired."
Defending the administration's commitment to veterans, newly appointed Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson said: "We had to make tough decisions. We have to set priorities." It's painfully clear what these priorities are. When the president needs votes, he sports his commander-in-chief jacket and mingles with the troops. But economic decisions reward the only constituency that counts in his administration: the wealthy.
While the proposed VA medical budget is $3.5 billion short of what that agency needs, United for a Fair Economy, an independent think tank, estimates that between 2002 and 2004, the richest 1 percent of Americans received roughly $197 billion in tax breaks. In light of the biggest tax giveaway in history, Undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness David Chu had the audacity to say that providing pensions, health insurance and other benefits for military widows and retirees has "gotten to the point where they are hurtful. They are taking away from the nation's ability to defend itself."
The president's callous indifference to the plight of veterans via his FY 2006 budget proposal is nothing more than a rerun of the FY 2005 budget that was $2.6 billion short of the VA's request. Speaking of the latter proposal, then VFW Commander-in-Chief Edward S. Banas Sr. complained: "This funding package is a disgrace and a sham ... To ask this nation's veterans to subsidize their health care is outrageous. They have already paid for health care with their sweat and their blood."
What could be more damaging to the morale and welfare of the nation's veterans and active duty personnel then to sabotage their sacrifice by underfunding the VA health care budget? The president's fiscal policy regarding both the wealthiest among us and the working and middle-class Americans who defend this country is beyond unpatriotic. It's obscene.
George J. Bryjak is a professor of sociology at the University of San Diego. Write to him by e-mail at bryjak@sandiego.edu
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
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Adam Zapple
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In defense of SCT, and in my best Dana Carvey imitation, "can't defend the cuts", "wouldn't be prudent". The one segment of society who actually deserve government subsidies are veterans. Veteran funding has always been woefully substandard and inadequate. The proposed budget is disappointing but not as bad as the Dems make it out to be relatively speaking. These total discretionary funds proposed are an increase of 2.7 percent more than this year's levels, according to the VA. The department also points out that with this plan the VA will have increased veterans medical funding by 47 percent since Bush took office in 2001. That's a greater increase than during the Clinton administration but liberals weren't squawking then. The Dems are simply grabbing on to an election issue and Bush has given them the ammunition. (Remember Kerry and the Dems that voted against funding of gear, pay and equipment for the Iraq war -- after they voted for it, of course). But politics aside, Congress should increase funding for vets and cut the pork out of other areas.
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StupidCowboyTricks
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News: Inspection finds CAT scans, MRIs delayed at VA hospital
Posted on Tuesday, September 06 @ 23:44:43 EDT by editor
Inspection finds CAT scans, MRIs delayed at VA hospital
By John Pacenti
Riviera Beach, Florida--A federal inspection of the Veteran Affairs Medical Center found nearly 3,000 patients were not provided CAT scans or MRIs in a timely fashion, including one veteran whose pervasive lung cancer went undiagnosed for 15 months.
The backlog was rectified soon after investigators with the Veteran Affairs Office of Inspector General looked into the backlog. But some veterans and their families say that the situation is typical of long waits they must endure for crucial appointments at the hospital in Riviera Beach.
The inspectors' report, completed in March, was sparked by eight anonymous complaints to U.S. Rep. Alcee Hastings. The Miramar Democrat has long been critical of the Bush administration for not providing more money for VA hospitals.
Hastings held a town hall meeting last month at Palm Beach Lakes High School in West Palm Beach at which about 100 veterans voiced concerns about care and staffing at the medical center.
"I will not be satisfied until all veterans in Palm Beach County and the surrounding area get the care fitting of the service they provided to our country," Hastings said. "I don't think that's happening right now."
MRIs and CAT scans are crucial tools for diagnosing cancer and other invasive diseases and injuries. MRIs use magnetic fields to generate computer images of the body's internal tissues and organs. A CAT scan is a specialized X-ray often used to create images of the brain and spinal structures.
The inspector general's report said that from April 2002 to May 2004, 2,977 CAT scans and MRIs at the VA hospital were not scheduled within the required 30 days. Medical center radiologists also did not interpret or verify a significant number of radiographic images within five days of exam completion, investigators found.
Lack of follow-up criticized
Investigators examined 62 primary lung cancer cases diagnosed in 2003 to determine whether delays adversely affected diagnoses or treatment. Though it was hard to tell in most cases, the inspection report cited one case in which a doctor ordered an MRI for a veteran with lung lesions on June 11, 2003. The exam was completed two weeks later, but the results were not interpreted until Sept. 26.
The results weren't verified until Oct. 1 †three months after a pulmonologist ordered the MRI. Doctors had found an abnormality, but by that time, the patient had moved out of state.
Federal investigators said that if the MRI had been interpreted immediately, as required, the patient's follow-up care could have been better coordinated. Investigators tracked down the patient in June 2004. In September, doctors removed part of his lung and were able to make a full diagnosis. A pathologist reported "invasive squamous cell carcinoma that had moved on beyond the veteran's lymph nodes."
Investigators castigated the VA hospital for failing to aggressively follow up on the patient's test results.
"Regardless of whether the lesion was cancerous and metastatic (as with this patient), or benign, to delay definitive diagnosis for 15 months in a patient with a lung lesion does not meet the standard of care," the federal report stated.
VA hospital Director Edward Seiler defended his facility in a Nov. 15 memo to federal inspectors. Their findings affirmed the hospital "delivers excellent care to our nation's heroes," he wrote.
A spokesman for the medical center said the hospital started to rectify the backlog of MRIs and CAT scans in March 2004, before the federal investigation started. The hospital added two machines, at a cost of $1 million each, hired more staff in the radiology department and outsourced some appointments.
The hospital couldn't provide the exact number of new hires in the radiology department, but staffing at the hospital overall has increased from 1,434 in 2000 to 1,740 in 2004.
The number of patients treated, though, has gone up as well. Inpatients rose from 3,676 in 2000 to nearly 6,000 last year. The VA hospital treated 527,404 outpatients in 2004, up by nearly 200,000 patients in four years.
'We are meeting obligation'
VA hospitals are the largest health provider in the country. And with Iraq veterans returning from war, demand at veterans hospitals is on the rise. Congress last month released $1.5 billion to cover a deficit in the VA budget.
"We do the best we can with what we have," said Phil Kaplan, spokesman for the medical center. "If a veteran walks through the door of the medical center, he will see no change in the quality health care of the medical center regardless of the budget."
Kaplan called the federal report "history, not news." He said complaints voiced by veterans at Hastings' town hall meeting on Aug. 15 were from "an individual standpoint" and could be solved through the hospital's patient advocates.
"I think at this point we are meeting our obligation to our veterans," Kaplan said.
Even with the MRI backlog fixed, some doctors, veterans and their families say inadequate staffing can be found in other areas at the VA hospital.
Paula Lang, a clinical psychologist at the VA hospital and president of the local chapter of the American Federation of Government Employees, said veterans are falling through cracks as physicians are asked "to do more with less."
John "Jack" Ott, a chapter service officer for the Military Order of the Purple Heart, said that during his rounds this summer, he came across a quadriplegic †decorated World War II veteran Arnold Snyder †staring aimlessly at a food tray. The nurse had not been in to feed him.
"When I got there at lunch time, he hadn't eaten his breakfast," Ott said. "They didn't have enough people to hand-feed patients. This has been happening repeatedly."
Snyder, who received two Purple Hearts and three Silver Stars as a U.S. Army infantry commander at Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge, said he was in the hospital for a broken leg. Paralyzed from polio in all but one arm, he said all he could do was stare at the plate of food in front of him.
"They are so understaffed, the veterans are not getting the proper care," Snyder said.
Dulce Maria Welch said her 92-year-old husband, Harry, often would go unattended by nurses in his last days. Harry Welch was a decorated veteran who had received the Purple Heart for injuries received at Iwo Jima. One night his wife said she couldn't even find a nurse to change his diaper.
"He was soaking wet. I didn't want him wet all night. So I changed him myself," she said. He died July 30 and he will be interred at Arlington Cemetery on Tuesday.
Welch said the VA almost turned her husband away at the emergency room. The doctor, she said, insisted that Harry Welch was supposed to be under hospice care even though he had a card giving him walk-in status at any VA hospital.
"I felt so bad for Harry. He didn't deserve this kind of treatment in his last days," she said. "He had so much faith in the VA. He didn't know that they would discard a veteran like an old pair of shoes."
Posted on Tuesday, September 06 @ 23:44:43 EDT by editor
Inspection finds CAT scans, MRIs delayed at VA hospital
By John Pacenti
Riviera Beach, Florida--A federal inspection of the Veteran Affairs Medical Center found nearly 3,000 patients were not provided CAT scans or MRIs in a timely fashion, including one veteran whose pervasive lung cancer went undiagnosed for 15 months.
The backlog was rectified soon after investigators with the Veteran Affairs Office of Inspector General looked into the backlog. But some veterans and their families say that the situation is typical of long waits they must endure for crucial appointments at the hospital in Riviera Beach.
The inspectors' report, completed in March, was sparked by eight anonymous complaints to U.S. Rep. Alcee Hastings. The Miramar Democrat has long been critical of the Bush administration for not providing more money for VA hospitals.
Hastings held a town hall meeting last month at Palm Beach Lakes High School in West Palm Beach at which about 100 veterans voiced concerns about care and staffing at the medical center.
"I will not be satisfied until all veterans in Palm Beach County and the surrounding area get the care fitting of the service they provided to our country," Hastings said. "I don't think that's happening right now."
MRIs and CAT scans are crucial tools for diagnosing cancer and other invasive diseases and injuries. MRIs use magnetic fields to generate computer images of the body's internal tissues and organs. A CAT scan is a specialized X-ray often used to create images of the brain and spinal structures.
The inspector general's report said that from April 2002 to May 2004, 2,977 CAT scans and MRIs at the VA hospital were not scheduled within the required 30 days. Medical center radiologists also did not interpret or verify a significant number of radiographic images within five days of exam completion, investigators found.
Lack of follow-up criticized
Investigators examined 62 primary lung cancer cases diagnosed in 2003 to determine whether delays adversely affected diagnoses or treatment. Though it was hard to tell in most cases, the inspection report cited one case in which a doctor ordered an MRI for a veteran with lung lesions on June 11, 2003. The exam was completed two weeks later, but the results were not interpreted until Sept. 26.
The results weren't verified until Oct. 1 †three months after a pulmonologist ordered the MRI. Doctors had found an abnormality, but by that time, the patient had moved out of state.
Federal investigators said that if the MRI had been interpreted immediately, as required, the patient's follow-up care could have been better coordinated. Investigators tracked down the patient in June 2004. In September, doctors removed part of his lung and were able to make a full diagnosis. A pathologist reported "invasive squamous cell carcinoma that had moved on beyond the veteran's lymph nodes."
Investigators castigated the VA hospital for failing to aggressively follow up on the patient's test results.
"Regardless of whether the lesion was cancerous and metastatic (as with this patient), or benign, to delay definitive diagnosis for 15 months in a patient with a lung lesion does not meet the standard of care," the federal report stated.
VA hospital Director Edward Seiler defended his facility in a Nov. 15 memo to federal inspectors. Their findings affirmed the hospital "delivers excellent care to our nation's heroes," he wrote.
A spokesman for the medical center said the hospital started to rectify the backlog of MRIs and CAT scans in March 2004, before the federal investigation started. The hospital added two machines, at a cost of $1 million each, hired more staff in the radiology department and outsourced some appointments.
The hospital couldn't provide the exact number of new hires in the radiology department, but staffing at the hospital overall has increased from 1,434 in 2000 to 1,740 in 2004.
The number of patients treated, though, has gone up as well. Inpatients rose from 3,676 in 2000 to nearly 6,000 last year. The VA hospital treated 527,404 outpatients in 2004, up by nearly 200,000 patients in four years.
'We are meeting obligation'
VA hospitals are the largest health provider in the country. And with Iraq veterans returning from war, demand at veterans hospitals is on the rise. Congress last month released $1.5 billion to cover a deficit in the VA budget.
"We do the best we can with what we have," said Phil Kaplan, spokesman for the medical center. "If a veteran walks through the door of the medical center, he will see no change in the quality health care of the medical center regardless of the budget."
Kaplan called the federal report "history, not news." He said complaints voiced by veterans at Hastings' town hall meeting on Aug. 15 were from "an individual standpoint" and could be solved through the hospital's patient advocates.
"I think at this point we are meeting our obligation to our veterans," Kaplan said.
Even with the MRI backlog fixed, some doctors, veterans and their families say inadequate staffing can be found in other areas at the VA hospital.
Paula Lang, a clinical psychologist at the VA hospital and president of the local chapter of the American Federation of Government Employees, said veterans are falling through cracks as physicians are asked "to do more with less."
John "Jack" Ott, a chapter service officer for the Military Order of the Purple Heart, said that during his rounds this summer, he came across a quadriplegic †decorated World War II veteran Arnold Snyder †staring aimlessly at a food tray. The nurse had not been in to feed him.
"When I got there at lunch time, he hadn't eaten his breakfast," Ott said. "They didn't have enough people to hand-feed patients. This has been happening repeatedly."
Snyder, who received two Purple Hearts and three Silver Stars as a U.S. Army infantry commander at Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge, said he was in the hospital for a broken leg. Paralyzed from polio in all but one arm, he said all he could do was stare at the plate of food in front of him.
"They are so understaffed, the veterans are not getting the proper care," Snyder said.
Dulce Maria Welch said her 92-year-old husband, Harry, often would go unattended by nurses in his last days. Harry Welch was a decorated veteran who had received the Purple Heart for injuries received at Iwo Jima. One night his wife said she couldn't even find a nurse to change his diaper.
"He was soaking wet. I didn't want him wet all night. So I changed him myself," she said. He died July 30 and he will be interred at Arlington Cemetery on Tuesday.
Welch said the VA almost turned her husband away at the emergency room. The doctor, she said, insisted that Harry Welch was supposed to be under hospice care even though he had a card giving him walk-in status at any VA hospital.
"I felt so bad for Harry. He didn't deserve this kind of treatment in his last days," she said. "He had so much faith in the VA. He didn't know that they would discard a veteran like an old pair of shoes."
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
-
Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
And can you please inform us as to when VA health system was actually adequate? I don't think these problems started with Bush.
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StupidCowboyTricks
- Posts: 1899
- Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:51 pm
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Adam Zapple wrote: And can you please inform us as to when VA health system was actually adequate? I don't think these problems started with Bush.
Is there not a war going on?
Is there not a war going on?
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
I'm not defending the budget and I've said so. If a Republican Congress accepts this level of funding for vets they should be ashamed. I'm just annoyed at the liberals jumping on the bandwagon simply because they can bash Bush. I've been calling for an increase in veteran's benefits while calling for a balanced budget and culling of pork projects since before I was old enough to vote. The Democrats were never with me until now. That's what annoys me.
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StupidCowboyTricks
- Posts: 1899
- Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:51 pm
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Far Rider wrote: The problems with the VA are not solved by tossing more money at them... there are industry wide problems that are at issue. They whole healthcare industry needs to be revamped, not socialized, but re regulated to stop soaring healthcare costs.
The problems that SCT refered to in his story are typical of MOST nursing homes. Not just VA nursing homes.
Mostly I blame Insurance companies, second is unions, third is the requirment for healthcare systems to treat indigent care without riembursement, or reimbursment by contracted insurance companies.
Blame yourself then. (your insurance for your glasses.)
The corporations are falling out of Georgie's and cohorts pockets.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and you can't see it.
The problems that SCT refered to in his story are typical of MOST nursing homes. Not just VA nursing homes.
Mostly I blame Insurance companies, second is unions, third is the requirment for healthcare systems to treat indigent care without riembursement, or reimbursment by contracted insurance companies.
Blame yourself then. (your insurance for your glasses.)
The corporations are falling out of Georgie's and cohorts pockets.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and you can't see it.
Someone asked me why I swear so much. I said, "Just becuss.":)
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
I had a response but it pulls this thread even farther off course, so I'm starting a new one.
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Far Rider wrote: 20/10 vision... I see fine. If you don't like Bush so much why don't you go live in France?
That is a little harsh.
I was always taught that it was my responsiblity as a citizen of this country to vote and that if I voted, I certainly had the right to complain. Well, I voted.
If you love GW - that is fine with me. I may not understand but it is certainly your right. Just like it is my right to not like GW, even if you don't understand why.
That is a little harsh.
I was always taught that it was my responsiblity as a citizen of this country to vote and that if I voted, I certainly had the right to complain. Well, I voted.
If you love GW - that is fine with me. I may not understand but it is certainly your right. Just like it is my right to not like GW, even if you don't understand why.
Sandi
Too Busy to Pay His Respect?
Far Rider wrote: Ya know its not that I like him or not, I think the problems are bigger than one party or one candidate. It takes ALL of them to screw it up. Dems. and repubs.
It was harsh, I agree, but he seems pretty thick skinned to me.
It sure doesn't seem the same when a democrat is in office. If they can't find something political to get after him for, they just keep digging. GW dug himself into this one. Even many people I know voted for him have strongly changed their minds.
It was harsh, I agree, but he seems pretty thick skinned to me.
It sure doesn't seem the same when a democrat is in office. If they can't find something political to get after him for, they just keep digging. GW dug himself into this one. Even many people I know voted for him have strongly changed their minds.