Euthenasia

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:01 pm

this is for a school assignment.

i would like to know how many of you are for/ against Euthenasia and why.

orangesox1 · Post by **orangesox1** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:37 pm

I think you should have a choice and your next of kins should know what to do with you under certain circumstances.

If I am in an accident and left on a life support machine or with severe brain damage, I want to be euthenated. If I get to be 80 + and end up in nursing care dribbling down my self and having to be fed and changed, Euthenate me please.

I don't think a healthy person should be euthenated because they want an easy way out.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:44 am

Against-it is murder.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:49 am

It is "humane" not to let an animal suffer, yet "murder" to let a human suffer. I would hope to be euthanized if I would have no quality of life.

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:37 am

It should be my choice if I want to end my stay here on this plane. I mean if I am incapable of taking care of myself, in constant pain, unable to enjoy the quality of life that I want to, then hell yeah.. let me go. And no one.. not a right to life group, or do-gooder group, should have any say in the matter. I mean look at the Schaivo case in Florida. That poor woman was used and abused by her parents and by interference by ouside groups that tried you use her for political and personal gain. It was totally and completely disgusting..

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:59 am

Totally in favour.

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:02 am

I'm in favour too. Sadly though, like everything else, it will be abused by some.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:58 pm

Absolutely, unequivocally, 100% for it. We should have the right to determine our own destiny when our quality of life is no longer good, and each person's perception of what is a good quality of life for them, is subjective. We do it for animals, (as has already been stated) so why the hell wouldn't we do it for people? If it's not legal when it's my time to go and I am determined to go, I'm gonna go, one way or another.

My body, my choice. Period.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:05 pm

Alfred wrote: this is for a school assignment.

i would like to know how many of you are for/ against Euthenasia and why.
I favor Euthenasia. Religious arguments aside, there are just too many logical and sensical reasons to support it.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:09 pm

I would want someone to "pull the plug" on me too. I just have one question: Is it Suicide? And if it is, could you ask for mercy before you do it and still be allowed into Heaven? Is Clint here? What are your thoughts, Clint?

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:01 pm

wow thank you all for the response.

please keep'em coming.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:21 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: I have seen my father suffer with the awful pain of cancer and in the end he was given so much morphine he didnt know what day it was .It would have been illegal to alow an animal to suffer so much so why a human. My mother said to me at the time my father was suffering, that had she had a gun, she would have shot him herself. I understood perfectly how she felt.

I am for it !

Sorry to hear about your tragedy, Arnold.

I too, am for euthanasia. I should be, since I had it done for my mother.

She got ALS, Llou Gehrig's Disease, at the age of 67. The brain slowly disconnects from the body. You become a prisoner inside your own shell. You can't communicate, you can't breathe, even your heart has to be kept on machines. And that's the thing of it....

It's now possible to keep a body alive indefinitely by machine. But should we?

First my mother's voice went.

We got her a machine that would talk when she typed.

Then her legs went.

We got her a machine that would let her drive around.

Then her arms went.

We got her a machine that lifted her out of bed and took her by rail to the toilet.

She became unable to swallow.

We got her a stomach tube.

Finally...she began having difficulty breathing.

We could have put her on a heart / lung machine, but she had said before she died that she did not want to be alive like that. Literally no quality of life whatsoever.

So she gathered us all together in the last days, then she began her fast. No food, no water. We gave her all the morphine she wanted, and we stayed with her, loving her, and soothing her to the end. It took 4 days for her to die, she died on Valentine's Day.

I watched her face closely when she died, she grimaced...just for a second...as her poor heart finally gave out. And that was it. It was finally over.

Now...before you feel too bad for her, or for myself, let me tell you about her. Although she could have had children of her own, she decided to adopt two orphans. She was a school teacher who was placed in the Teacher's hall of Fame after she retired, but in addition to raising two fine children she also:

1. Organized, designed and constructed a "Riverwalk" park where once once overgrown bushes were in our town. This huge mile-long park is now a center of activity for the town where everything from Reniassance Fairs to July 4th celebrations happen.

2. She almost single handedly got a bond issue passed for a $6,000,000 Aquatic Center so that the kids in our town would have a place to swim.

3. She organized and started the "Clean City Commision" which is responsible for several key ordinances and the beautiful medians you see when traveling the streets of our city. No longer can contractors turn the city into a concrete wasteland, because of my mother they must install landscaping in front of the building and have to have so many trees planted per square foot of property.

4. Pioneered the "We're College Bound" program for poverty stricken familes. This program ws designed to begin the college education process at an early age for children identified as high risk for dropping out of school. She ran it for two decades, and her alumi include many of Farmington's most successful citizens.

of course she was involved in a hundred other activites, and was a member of every board and coucil in the town, as well as being the Parks and Recreation director.

Does a person of such caliber, that has contributed so much, really deserve the torture of body-death without brain death? After a life like that, does anyone here really think that her end was untimely or tragic?

I don't.

booradley · Post by **booradley** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:26 pm

well nobody had better unplug me or give my bits away when I kick the bucket, no matter what state I'm in.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:28 pm

Nice knee-jerk reaction there, Booradley. That amount of thought you must have put into that post must have been truly staggering.

I'm hoping you get your wish. Live on as a vegetable, with all of your material possessions, which you cannot touch, around you.....for a long, long time.

Then die.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:32 pm

DG asked if it were suicide...no more than having a living will is suicide. and if one is euthanized it is the act of another who performs the euthanasia. i was directly involved in a euthanasia and know wihout a doubt i did the right thing. it was unspoken, probably illegal, and it is practiced by humane doctors all the time.

booradley · Post by **booradley** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:33 pm

I've given it a lot of thought over the years. If I'm a vegetable, I'm not going to know anyway, so I might as well live out what god had planned for me.

Some people know when they've had enough and want to go, possibly with help from their friends/doctors. Some don't. I don't.

euthanasia has been going on for thousands of years, I'm not knocking it. It's just not for me.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:36 pm

Jives you sweet, kind man :-4

I personally am for it but only on the condition that the person suffering consents.

In Holland where it's legal providing you have the consultants blessing,

one in five cases of euthanasia occurs without the patient's explicit request.

Would that be considered murder?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:39 pm

booradley wrote: I've given it a lot of thought over the years. If I'm a vegetable, I'm not going to know anyway, so I might as well live out what god had planned for me.

Unless, of course, you get ALS...then you will know what's happening to you, and it will go on and on with no way for you to end it.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:40 pm

abbey wrote:

Would that be considered murder?technically yes, if it were in a place it was not sanctioned by law and by explicit conditions and protocols.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:44 pm

abbey wrote: Jives you sweet, kind man :-4

I personally am for it but only on the condition that the person suffering consents.

In Holland where it's legal providing you have the consultants blessing,

one in five cases of euthanasia occurred without the patient's explicit request.

Would that be considered murder?
I think it would be murder, but you have such gray areas abbey. Jives story of his mother's long suffering, and how it prolonged her agony is an example of how some people might decide to take this direction. Others, like booradley might not.

(we love you Jives:-4 and all you have gone through, we admire you greatly)

Would I have chosen this course for my husband, if he knew what he is today? Since I do not know, he never told me before his illness what to do, I choose what I believed was right. I said put the machines on, and do your thing, doctors.

So, he is well and at home, but his mind will never function properly-if I had it to rethink again, with other possibilities, I still would not know what to do. Maybe he will recover more over a long period of time, or not. Right now he is a 4 year old, so I believe he is rational enough to never opt for euthenasia. But if he had told me his wishes, I would have obeyed them, even if it meant not putting him on the machines the first time.

My suggestion to all, like others have stated before, leave your loved ones a living will, so they know what your wishes are.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:45 pm

abbey wrote: Jives you sweet, kind man :-4

Thanks Abbey. You always cheer me up whenever I post something distressing. Do you practice that empathy? Or does it just come naturally to your very sensitive and caring personality?:o

In Holland where it's legal providing you have the consultants blessing,

one in five cases of euthanasia occurs without the patient's explicit request.

Would that be considered murder?

Great question, Abbey. You stated "explicitly" which I'm thinking must mean that the loved ones in charge never actually got permission, but decided to end the suffering anyway. Most likely because the poor victim was beyond the ability to ask for an end themselves.

In that case I'd say no. Can your poor kitty or puppy request an end to the suffering? No... yet you seem to understand when they need it, instinctively.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:48 pm

chonsigirl wrote: I

My suggestion to all, like others have stated before, leave your loved ones a living will, so they know what your wishes are.I'm not sure if living wills are legal in Britain.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:51 pm

You should look that up, abbey-it is important to have one. I wrote out mine, after everything. I wish my husband had written one for me to know what to do.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:51 pm

chonsigirl wrote: (we love you Jives:-4 and all you have gone through, we admire you greatly)

And, of course, the feeling is mutual, Chonsi!

Would I have chosen this course for my husband, if he knew what he is today? Since I do not know, he never told me before his illness what to do, I choose what I believed was right. I said put the machines on, and do your thing, doctors.

So, he is well and at home, but his mind will never function properly-if I had it to rethink again, with other possibilities, I still would not know what to do. Maybe he will recover more over a long period of time, or not. Right now he is a 4 year old, so I believe he is rational enough to never opt for euthenasia. But if he had told me his wishes, I would have obeyed them, even if it meant not putting him on the machines the first time.

And to think you are dealing with such a terrible dilemma, and I never knew! You are always so upbeat and positive, I had no idea that your loved one was in such a state!

That just proves my judgement of your character is dead on.

In the end, Chonsi has the right answer. We must all take the cards that are dealt us in life and play them as best we can. Plan ahead if you can, deal with the problem as best you can, and in the vacuum of information...make the best decisions you can. God doesn't ask any more of us than that.

We'll all know the answers some day, after we leave this plane of existance.

booradley · Post by **booradley** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:56 pm

Jives wrote: Unless, of course, you get ALS...then you will know what's happening to you, and it will go on and on with no way for you to end it.

I'm not knocking other people and their situations. They make very brave decisions under the most terrible of circumstances. I never said it's wrong. It should be a matter of choice. It's not my choice, that's all.

booradley · Post by **booradley** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:00 pm

chonsigirl wrote: I think it would be murder, but you have such gray areas abbey. Jives story of his mother's long suffering, and how it prolonged her agony is an example of how some people might decide to take this direction. Others, like booradley might not.

(we love you Jives:-4 and all you have gone through, we admire you greatly)

Would I have chosen this course for my husband, if he knew what he is today? Since I do not know, he never told me before his illness what to do, I choose what I believed was right. I said put the machines on, and do your thing, doctors.

So, he is well and at home, but his mind will never function properly-if I had it to rethink again, with other possibilities, I still would not know what to do. Maybe he will recover more over a long period of time, or not. Right now he is a 4 year old, so I believe he is rational enough to never opt for euthenasia. But if he had told me his wishes, I would have obeyed them, even if it meant not putting him on the machines the first time.

My suggestion to all, like others have stated before, leave your loved ones a living will, so they know what your wishes are.

well said, Abbey. Your life as primary carer must be very hard. Hope you're getting the support you need.

dudeskiess · Post by **dudeskiess** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:14 am

i think if someone is suffering and want the pain to stop and have the power to stop that suffering i think they should be allowed to so that

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:41 pm

If a person is inflicted with a terminal disease I believe it is that persons God given and Personal right to say when their life should end. If I knew I was going to die and I would be beyond any cognitive ability to determine my medical care when I was terminal....I would want euthanasia...I have a living will. It is very specific in the amount of care I want in this situation. My loved ones WILL NOT make the choice - the doctors WILL NOT make the choice. I have made that choice. If I cannot survive without extreme life support - PLEASE - for the love of ME - let me go. I will go to the place of peace and leave my family in peace without huge medical bills.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:16 pm

nvalleyvee wrote: leave my family in peace without huge medical bills.

Here's a good point. What about your family? Is living a few weeks longer worth making them destitute?

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:27 pm

I'm absolutely in favor of it.

Ending your life in the face of a terminal disease is so much different than most suicides. When I think of suicide I think of some emo 15 year old wanting to kill themselves because "life's not fair" or puberty, or something that will pass. Terminal diseases don't "pass."

It would certainly raise interesting questions for health and life insurance companies.

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:46 pm

abbey wrote: I'm not sure if living wills are legal in Britain.

Yep..living wills are legal in Britain. I have one. The Voluntary Euthanasia Society supply a specific form to their members but I think you can also do it by making your wishes clear to both your family and your doctor and having a signed statement in your medical notes.

I'm pro Euthanasia. In UK you'd be prosecuted for allowing an animal to suffer and yet we are expected to see our loved ones suffer regardless of their personal wishes. I'd be prepared to help anyone I loved to die if they were terminally ill and in pain, and that's what they really wanted. I'd hope that they'd be prepared to do the same for me.

Jive Your mum was lucky to have such a loving family round her to help her to die with dignity.

Society4Sale · Post by **Society4Sale** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:35 am

Completely for it, depending on the state of the person. It would be ones personal hell to be trapped in your own mind while your platonic being is lifeless. Taking into consideration that there is little realistic documentation on your complete state of mind while a vegetable, the absolute last thing I would want is soulless silence. If all you have is your thoughts and prayers, then by all means do the favor and let the person move onÃ¢â‚¬¦.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:34 pm

Jives wrote: Here's a good point. What about your family? Is living a few weeks longer worth making them destitute?

Thanks Jives. Insurance doesn't pay for long terminal care. Not to mention the emotional grief of watching me "linger".