I have been cruelly victimized by my church and there's nothing I can do about it.
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
Victimized
-
Southern Belle
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:40 pm
Victimized
Unfortunately, you've reminded me of the quote I saw that says 'going to church makes you a Christian about as much as going to the garage makes you a mechanic'. Or something very close, but you get the idea.
I'm sorry you're going thru a prime example of 'Christian' behavior'.
However, the only person you are accountable to is yourself and, on Judgement Day, to God. If you know the truth of the matter and conduct yourself appropriately, then all will be right in the end.
Good luck.
I'm sorry you're going thru a prime example of 'Christian' behavior'.
However, the only person you are accountable to is yourself and, on Judgement Day, to God. If you know the truth of the matter and conduct yourself appropriately, then all will be right in the end.
Good luck.
Victimized
Thank you, Southern Belle -- you are right, of course -- I musn't whinge.
-
Southern Belle
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:40 pm
Victimized
gimli3 wrote:
Thank you, Southern Belle -- you are right, of course -- I musn't whinge.
Whine away, Darlin' - sometimes it's a necessity to get past a crappy situation
Thank you, Southern Belle -- you are right, of course -- I musn't whinge.
Whine away, Darlin' - sometimes it's a necessity to get past a crappy situation
Victimized
gimli3 wrote: I have been cruelly victimized by my church and there's nothing I can do about it.
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
You but have to look at the history of "the church" to learn of victimization, but "the church" is "the people" and the "good" or "evil" that is inherent in man is what comes out in the other................. Garbage in, garbage out!
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
You but have to look at the history of "the church" to learn of victimization, but "the church" is "the people" and the "good" or "evil" that is inherent in man is what comes out in the other................. Garbage in, garbage out!
-
robinseggs
- Posts: 876
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:01 am
Victimized
Gimli, that is unfortunate. I agree w/ Southern Belle--let nothing stand between you and your relationship w/ God because He sees your good deeds and no matter what we will all be judged someday on what we've done. Don't let those people bring you down. Pray pray pray about this situation--mostly for the people involved. Love them still despite their faults and you will be amazed what God could do for you here. Not sure I would switch churches before trying the prayer route first! Just try it. See your enemy as little children that need the Lord's direction and with your prayer, watch them grow.
Nature laughs Last
Victimized
gimli3 wrote: I have been cruelly victimized by my church and there's nothing I can do about it.
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
As another poster said, sounds like you are going to the wrong church.
There is sometihng you can do about it, though. First of all, you can pray for the gossippers, that the Lord will show them the harm that they are doing.
If they, especially the leaders, have actually made false accusations against you, you might also consider seeing a lawyer.
Bearing false witness is a serious sin, a direct violation of a commandment. If the false witness meets the legal test of slander, it's also actionable under law.
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
As another poster said, sounds like you are going to the wrong church.
There is sometihng you can do about it, though. First of all, you can pray for the gossippers, that the Lord will show them the harm that they are doing.
If they, especially the leaders, have actually made false accusations against you, you might also consider seeing a lawyer.
Bearing false witness is a serious sin, a direct violation of a commandment. If the false witness meets the legal test of slander, it's also actionable under law.
Victimized
gimli3 wrote: I have been cruelly victimized by my church and there's nothing I can do about it.
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
This is bad behavior on the part of your pastor and church leaders. I would confront them and DEMAND a fair hearing on the threat of your bringing legal actiion against them for slander. Don't knuckle under to them. Or------look for another church.
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
This is bad behavior on the part of your pastor and church leaders. I would confront them and DEMAND a fair hearing on the threat of your bringing legal actiion against them for slander. Don't knuckle under to them. Or------look for another church.
Victimized
I've seen it many times before, personally although, I've never had it happen to me. That's unfortunate and certainly not a very Christian thing to do but... it was put best up there about the mechanic.
Signature text removed at the request of a member.
Participate in The unOfficial Forum Garden Scavenger Hunt 2009!
-
Valerie100
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:31 am
Victimized
I've had many problems with untrue and unfair gossip. I've done some reading on it, and I don't know if this will help but...
1.) Some people's personalities are that of a gossip. They cannot help themselves, because that is naturally the way that they are.
2.) Gossip, slander and libel (gossip in print) are mighty demons that want to cause dissention and split apart a church. It's their jobs. You must remember that demons are also going to be present within a church because they need to keep informed on what is happening in enemy territory. Also, they know the word of God inside and out. They also know how to twist it. Just remember that demons will do anything and say anything if it is going to hurt or potentially destroy God's creations -- us.
3.) The best way to stop gossip is to walk away from the person who is saying stuff. To shut someone up from saying stuff about you, simply say, "Stop lying," or "How do I really know that that's not what you do?" Turning the tables on the mouthpiece will usually quiet them.
4) You can also remind people that gossip is just that, talk from one person, and we never get to hear anything from the other person that it is aimed at. Any story looks totally different when you're hearing both sides of the story.
5) It is human nature, psychologically speaking and unfortunately, to make yourself feel better about yourself at someone else's expense. This is why some people have to always put others down. It gives them the good feeling of being better, making themselves seem more special and important, when really they're not. They just need to feel good about themselves somehow.
You can also report your minister's abuse of power to the National Association of Evangelicals at http://www.nae.net/ Tell them what has happened and what he is doing, what is going on at your church. Ask them if they can help you out. This might, at least, make him accountable to answer for what he is doing from the pulpit. If you do it anonymously, then there won't be any backlash. If you leave your name, be prepared for a fight.
The Bible also about understanding or realizing, or something to that effect, when your neighbors talk badly of you. The Bible says to remember all of the times that you, yourself, have had mean thoughts or spoken badly of someone.
Also, there are attorneys who handle slander and libel cases, and you can also call the press and/or newspapers about what he is doing. This might get the man removed from his position and make things better for you. Others might get mad, though -- just think of any and all consequences before you do anything. God bless you and Good luck!
P.S. I once was visiting at a Presbyterian church in smalltown USA, here, that I was thinking about joining. I was talking to the pastor. She used to be an attorney. I told her that I had an interview coming up for a legal secretarial position. I told her the name of the law firm that I was going to.
Well, a long story short, this minister decided that she didn't think that I was qualified to be a legal secretary -- even though, I had three years of experience under my belt. This obese goat of a pastor, God forgive me, called ahead to the law firm and literally ruined my chances of getting the position. I could tell by some of the things that the interviewer was saying at the interview that she had talked to the pastor from this church. I guess this goat of a pastor figured that if she couldn't make it in the legal community, then I shouldn't be able to either. At the end of the interview, I was politely told to pray about my chances of getting the job -- literally. I cannot wait until this pastor has to stand before God and answer for what she did to me. And the law firm lost out on a good employee because of their small-town prejudice and believing what this pastorial mouthpiece thought, who by the way had never actually seen me in a legal setting and wouldn't have known a blessed thing about me. So see -- you're not the only one. It's abuse of power, really.
1.) Some people's personalities are that of a gossip. They cannot help themselves, because that is naturally the way that they are.
2.) Gossip, slander and libel (gossip in print) are mighty demons that want to cause dissention and split apart a church. It's their jobs. You must remember that demons are also going to be present within a church because they need to keep informed on what is happening in enemy territory. Also, they know the word of God inside and out. They also know how to twist it. Just remember that demons will do anything and say anything if it is going to hurt or potentially destroy God's creations -- us.
3.) The best way to stop gossip is to walk away from the person who is saying stuff. To shut someone up from saying stuff about you, simply say, "Stop lying," or "How do I really know that that's not what you do?" Turning the tables on the mouthpiece will usually quiet them.
4) You can also remind people that gossip is just that, talk from one person, and we never get to hear anything from the other person that it is aimed at. Any story looks totally different when you're hearing both sides of the story.
5) It is human nature, psychologically speaking and unfortunately, to make yourself feel better about yourself at someone else's expense. This is why some people have to always put others down. It gives them the good feeling of being better, making themselves seem more special and important, when really they're not. They just need to feel good about themselves somehow.
You can also report your minister's abuse of power to the National Association of Evangelicals at http://www.nae.net/ Tell them what has happened and what he is doing, what is going on at your church. Ask them if they can help you out. This might, at least, make him accountable to answer for what he is doing from the pulpit. If you do it anonymously, then there won't be any backlash. If you leave your name, be prepared for a fight.
The Bible also about understanding or realizing, or something to that effect, when your neighbors talk badly of you. The Bible says to remember all of the times that you, yourself, have had mean thoughts or spoken badly of someone.
Also, there are attorneys who handle slander and libel cases, and you can also call the press and/or newspapers about what he is doing. This might get the man removed from his position and make things better for you. Others might get mad, though -- just think of any and all consequences before you do anything. God bless you and Good luck!
P.S. I once was visiting at a Presbyterian church in smalltown USA, here, that I was thinking about joining. I was talking to the pastor. She used to be an attorney. I told her that I had an interview coming up for a legal secretarial position. I told her the name of the law firm that I was going to.
Well, a long story short, this minister decided that she didn't think that I was qualified to be a legal secretary -- even though, I had three years of experience under my belt. This obese goat of a pastor, God forgive me, called ahead to the law firm and literally ruined my chances of getting the position. I could tell by some of the things that the interviewer was saying at the interview that she had talked to the pastor from this church. I guess this goat of a pastor figured that if she couldn't make it in the legal community, then I shouldn't be able to either. At the end of the interview, I was politely told to pray about my chances of getting the job -- literally. I cannot wait until this pastor has to stand before God and answer for what she did to me. And the law firm lost out on a good employee because of their small-town prejudice and believing what this pastorial mouthpiece thought, who by the way had never actually seen me in a legal setting and wouldn't have known a blessed thing about me. So see -- you're not the only one. It's abuse of power, really.
Victimized
It's abuse of power
That's it in a nutshell.
I'm not an organized religion kind of person....I find it difficult to give power to someone who tells me they have a 'special' calling and is the pastor/leader. They are, IMO, just another little human being just like myself, warts and all. I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend time 'worshiping' with people who are behaving in a manner completely opposite of what they preach....again, IMO, it doesn't make you a 'better' person. Just makes you a participant in abuse.
That's it in a nutshell.
I'm not an organized religion kind of person....I find it difficult to give power to someone who tells me they have a 'special' calling and is the pastor/leader. They are, IMO, just another little human being just like myself, warts and all. I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend time 'worshiping' with people who are behaving in a manner completely opposite of what they preach....again, IMO, it doesn't make you a 'better' person. Just makes you a participant in abuse.
-
robinseggs
- Posts: 876
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:01 am
Victimized
ubetta wrote: That's it in a nutshell.
I'm not an organized religion kind of person....I find it difficult to give power to someone who tells me they have a 'special' calling and is the pastor/leader. They are, IMO, just another little human being just like myself, warts and all. I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend time 'worshiping' with people who are behaving in a manner completely opposite of what they preach....again, IMO, it doesn't make you a 'better' person. Just makes you a participant in abuse.
Ubetta, the Christian bible actually tells the exact opposite on power. That we are to give NO other person on earth power or idolism....my pastor at my church is just like any one of us...a regular person. Warts and all. And he will tell you so. He teaches us that there is nothing to come between ourselves and the Lord. NOT even him. So sad you got it all wrong somewhere.
I'm not an organized religion kind of person....I find it difficult to give power to someone who tells me they have a 'special' calling and is the pastor/leader. They are, IMO, just another little human being just like myself, warts and all. I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend time 'worshiping' with people who are behaving in a manner completely opposite of what they preach....again, IMO, it doesn't make you a 'better' person. Just makes you a participant in abuse.
Ubetta, the Christian bible actually tells the exact opposite on power. That we are to give NO other person on earth power or idolism....my pastor at my church is just like any one of us...a regular person. Warts and all. And he will tell you so. He teaches us that there is nothing to come between ourselves and the Lord. NOT even him. So sad you got it all wrong somewhere.
Nature laughs Last
-
robinseggs
- Posts: 876
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:01 am
Victimized
Valerie, that is horrible!!!!! I think I would go and make an appointment with the pastor lady and explain to her in a calm/friendly way how she managed to screw up your plans. I would tell her why it mattered so much to me and just how she ruined it. Upon leaving I would tell her I never prayed after the interview (for the job as I was toldto by interviewee). That instead I am praying for her because God sees all we do, and that it is my true belief that he is frowning upon her now.
Nature laughs Last
Victimized
:-6
Many thanks for all your useful comments -- I will certainly think things over and make a decision.
I seem to have hit a little nerve with many people -- perhaps there has been other threads similar to this and I should have researched them more thoroughly before starting.
I particularly liked an early comment (Southern Belle, I think), inferring that a good whinge can help with the first stages of getting through things like this.
Once again, lots of appreciation for your comments.
Many thanks for all your useful comments -- I will certainly think things over and make a decision.
I seem to have hit a little nerve with many people -- perhaps there has been other threads similar to this and I should have researched them more thoroughly before starting.
I particularly liked an early comment (Southern Belle, I think), inferring that a good whinge can help with the first stages of getting through things like this.
Once again, lots of appreciation for your comments.
Victimized
robinseggs wrote: Ubetta, the Christian bible actually tells the exact opposite on power. That we are to give NO other person on earth power or idolism....my pastor at my church is just like any one of us...a regular person. Warts and all. And he will tell you so. He teaches us that there is nothing to come between ourselves and the Lord. NOT even him. So sad you got it all wrong somewhere.
Huh? Got it all wrong somewhere? Why do you think ubetta has it all wrong? Because it's different from your opinion?
Organized religion is NOT for everyone, it's certainly not for me, and in fact, I think it's damaging. That doesn't mean we have it all wrong, it simply means we have it different.
Huh? Got it all wrong somewhere? Why do you think ubetta has it all wrong? Because it's different from your opinion?
Organized religion is NOT for everyone, it's certainly not for me, and in fact, I think it's damaging. That doesn't mean we have it all wrong, it simply means we have it different.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
-
Valerie100
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:31 am
Victimized
My pastor incident happened over a year ago. Now that I think of it, too, her little church was standing on its last legs. Not that any church deserves to go under -- God forbid -- but a church is only as good as the people or person who is leading the flock. I guess she really wasn't meant to be a pastor either. Who knows -- only God can answer that one. It's not important now, though. I've got a decent job. Thanks, though.
Victimized
gimli3 wrote: I have been cruelly victimized by my church and there's nothing I can do about it.
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
you've not been brought up as a jehovah's witness have you? This all sounds awfully familiar.
Closed lying gossip networks and shaming (for no reason) from the pulpit are only two weapons used. Everyone believes everything church leaders say -- who would believe me?
You have to obey them, shutup, or you're out.
I'm very bitter about this -- does anyone else have similar experiences?
you've not been brought up as a jehovah's witness have you? This all sounds awfully familiar.
Victimized
BabyRider wrote: Huh? Got it all wrong somewhere? Why do you think ubetta has it all wrong? Because it's different from your opinion?
Organized religion is NOT for everyone, it's certainly not for me, and in fact, I think it's damaging. That doesn't mean we have it all wrong, it simply means we have it different.
Why, thank you Baby. I've tried a couple of times and I'll tell ya, each and every time I've run into a 'clique' type situation or the pastor/whatever was so over the top with 'miracles' and such I couldn't take it.
While robbinseggs experience may be that she has a rational pastor, that does not mean that all pastors or churches are like hers. Regardless of the words in the bible, people are people....those in need of answers will often look to give more power to someone who says they have the answer and that answer-person more often than not will seize the power and take it to the limit. Did that make sense?
Anyway, lol, I think organized religion is more often than not a load of horsesh*t and I prefer to have a relationship with my higher power all on my very own.
Organized religion is NOT for everyone, it's certainly not for me, and in fact, I think it's damaging. That doesn't mean we have it all wrong, it simply means we have it different.
Why, thank you Baby.
I've tried a couple of times and I'll tell ya, each and every time I've run into a 'clique' type situation or the pastor/whatever was so over the top with 'miracles' and such I couldn't take it.While robbinseggs experience may be that she has a rational pastor, that does not mean that all pastors or churches are like hers. Regardless of the words in the bible, people are people....those in need of answers will often look to give more power to someone who says they have the answer and that answer-person more often than not will seize the power and take it to the limit. Did that make sense?
Anyway, lol, I think organized religion is more often than not a load of horsesh*t and I prefer to have a relationship with my higher power all on my very own.
-
robinseggs
- Posts: 876
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:01 am
Victimized
ubetta wrote: Why, thank you Baby. I've tried a couple of times and I'll tell ya, each and every time I've run into a 'clique' type situation or the pastor/whatever was so over the top with 'miracles' and such I couldn't take it.
While robbinseggs experience may be that she has a rational pastor, that does not mean that all pastors or churches are like hers. Regardless of the words in the bible, people are people....those in need of answers will often look to give more power to someone who says they have the answer and that answer-person more often than not will seize the power and take it to the limit. Did that make sense?
Anyway, lol, I think organized religion is more often than not a load of horsesh*t and I prefer to have a relationship with my higher power all on my very own.
You said it Ubetta! And you SHOULD have a relationship ALL YOUR OWN! That is precisely what God wants. Christianity is NOT an organized religion. If it appears to be, then it is simply organized by man. Thing is, I completely agree with everything you and babyrider have said. REALLY! But I am not sure you believe me. The things you say and believe in are exactly what the bible teaches. It is. Read and you will believe. You don't want to join a church with organization? That is ok....I can't blame you. I think Jesus can forgive that too. These days things can just be so f#$% up in churches and leaves people like you with a bad taste in their mouths... am I making any sense? I dunno...lol
I've tried a couple of times and I'll tell ya, each and every time I've run into a 'clique' type situation or the pastor/whatever was so over the top with 'miracles' and such I couldn't take it.While robbinseggs experience may be that she has a rational pastor, that does not mean that all pastors or churches are like hers. Regardless of the words in the bible, people are people....those in need of answers will often look to give more power to someone who says they have the answer and that answer-person more often than not will seize the power and take it to the limit. Did that make sense?
Anyway, lol, I think organized religion is more often than not a load of horsesh*t and I prefer to have a relationship with my higher power all on my very own.
You said it Ubetta! And you SHOULD have a relationship ALL YOUR OWN! That is precisely what God wants. Christianity is NOT an organized religion. If it appears to be, then it is simply organized by man. Thing is, I completely agree with everything you and babyrider have said. REALLY! But I am not sure you believe me. The things you say and believe in are exactly what the bible teaches. It is. Read and you will believe. You don't want to join a church with organization? That is ok....I can't blame you. I think Jesus can forgive that too. These days things can just be so f#$% up in churches and leaves people like you with a bad taste in their mouths... am I making any sense? I dunno...lol
Nature laughs Last
-
robinseggs
- Posts: 876
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:01 am
Victimized
BabyRider wrote: Huh? Got it all wrong somewhere? Why do you think ubetta has it all wrong? Because it's different from your opinion?
Organized religion is NOT for everyone, it's certainly not for me, and in fact, I think it's damaging. That doesn't mean we have it all wrong, it simply means we have it different.
Didn't mean to offend you babyrider....it was just a figure of speech. I agree we are all just different. You stated it better.
Organized religion is NOT for everyone, it's certainly not for me, and in fact, I think it's damaging. That doesn't mean we have it all wrong, it simply means we have it different.
Didn't mean to offend you babyrider....it was just a figure of speech. I agree we are all just different. You stated it better.
Nature laughs Last
Victimized
Gimli3:-6
Our Lord was very clear about when one enters a house where they are not properly received. Kick the dust of that place off your feet and leave.
You referred to it as a church but I know of no true church that would practise such behaviour. It is dispicvapble and entirely unchristian.
Best of luck.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Our Lord was very clear about when one enters a house where they are not properly received. Kick the dust of that place off your feet and leave.
You referred to it as a church but I know of no true church that would practise such behaviour. It is dispicvapble and entirely unchristian.
Best of luck.
Shalom
Ted:-6