That air crash in Ahmedabad

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That air crash in Ahmedabad

Post by spot »

The first hull loss of a Dreamliner happened two days ago, with one survivor walking away from the wreck and the canteen of a medical school hostel crushed beneath it. The Dreamliner was only in the air for thirty seconds, there's no sign birds hit it, but everything points to both engines having stopped after getting airborne. By which I mean it got off the runway at the right place with the right rate of ascent, it reached a maximum of just 650 feet without successfully retracting the wheels and from there drifted as gently as it could to the ground, engines apparently silent, external emergency generator deployed and a Mayday "no thrust, losing power, unable to lift" having been sent. It's hard to think of what might have made that happen, the electrics aren't meant to totally collapse and no other plane that day had issues with fuel contamination. One passenger flying just the previous leg was so bothered about the electrics that she tweeted about it, which is extreme - she said passengers were reduced to reading the flight magazine because the seat display screens were off, along with the air conditioning.
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Re: That air crash in Ahmedabad

Post by spot »

I expect the black box readout will be close to announcement.

It got remarkably little distance. The take off appeared perfectly normal. If both engines lost all thrust just after the plane began its ascent, there's already enough kinetic energy to get it to the top of the climb that was achieved. In which case, since we don't like coincidences, the start of ascent or the start of lifting the landing gear is relevant to the loss of all electric power on the distribution systems - hence the deployed generator - and the immediate loss of fuel to the engines, and the incomplete stowing of the landing gear. None of those are trivial issues, they're the sort of events that redundancies are meant to prevent. And the mayday suggests the pilots had no indication of why it had happened, just what.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Écrasez l'infâme! When you design tactics to maximise suffering on civilian populations and your only constraint is operational rather than moral, you've told the world who you are.
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Re: That air crash in Ahmedabad

Post by spot »

And as of yesterday, with no official announcements, the interweb is packed full of "fuel switches" posts. As in the two fuel switches, which are safe-proofed by requiring lift from the hole before moving to the off state, both ended up in the off state. And everyone is consequently speculating this is not something anyone should ever have caused to happen, least of all just after a successful take-off.

And it does indeed fit all the listed issues.

The weeks of refusing to comment, when the black box recordings have obviously been transcribed and analysed, is not a sensible protocol.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Écrasez l'infâme! When you design tactics to maximise suffering on civilian populations and your only constraint is operational rather than moral, you've told the world who you are.
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Re: That air crash in Ahmedabad

Post by spot »

Well. The preliminary report is out.
Preliminary Report wrote:The aircraft air/ground sensors transitioned to air mode, consistent with liftoff at 08:08:39
UTC.
The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42
UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned
from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1
and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut
off.
In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff.
The other pilot responded that he did not do so.

[...] As per the EAFR, the Engine 1 fuel cutoff switch transitioned from CUTOFF to RUN at about
08:08:52 UTC. The APU Inlet Door began opening at about 08:08:54 UTC, consistent with
the APU Auto Start logic. Thereafter at 08:08:56 UTC the Engine 2 fuel cutoff switch also
transitions from CUTOFF to RUN. When fuel control switches are moved from CUTOFF to
RUN while the aircraft is inflight, each engines full authority dual engine control (FADEC)
automatically manages a relight and thrust recovery sequence of ignition and fuel introduction.
The EGT was observed to be rising for both engines indicating relight. Engine 1’s core
deceleration stopped, reversed and started to progress to recovery. Engine 2 was able to
relight but could not arrest core speed deceleration and re-introduced fuel repeatedly to
increase core speed acceleration and recovery. The EAFR recording stopped at 08:09:11
UTC
At about 08:09:05 UTC, one of the pilots transmitted “MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY”.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/aaib ... ight-ai171

So, the two fuel cutoff buttons were at OFF for ten seconds before being pushed back to RUN. The engines had insufficient time to regain thrust before the the crash.

The implication of the voice recorder is that neither pilot said they were responsible for the movement to OFF. One explicitly denied it, the other asked why the switch was at the wrong position. Neither accused the other of moving the switches.

If they're to be believed, and there's no reason not to believe them, something three seconds after lift-off caused the switches to move. There's no indication anyone else was in the cockpit.

The switches are independent of each other. Both moved, a second apart. They're meant to be mechanically protected from inadvertent bumps or pressure of any sort.

All of that was known two weeks before the report released it into the public domain. The frenetic online speculation over that period was the direct consequence of that systemic secrecy.

Today marks a month since the crash.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Écrasez l'infâme! When you design tactics to maximise suffering on civilian populations and your only constraint is operational rather than moral, you've told the world who you are.
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Re: That air crash in Ahmedabad

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Ahmedabad Air India Crash: New Simulator Data, Timelines In AAIB Report Point To Systems Failure, Not Pilot Error

Preliminary findings released by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) showed that both engine fuel-control switches moved from “RUN” to “CUTOFF” just seconds after liftoff.

Published at: 19 June 2026 5:41 pm

Fresh details emerging from the investigation into the crash of Air India Flight AI171 are increasingly shifting attention away from pilot error and toward the possibility of a broader systems-related failure, even as investigators caution that no final conclusions have yet been reached.

The Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner crashed shortly after takeoff from Ahmedabad on June 12, 2025, killing 260 people in one of India’s worst aviation disasters.

Preliminary findings released by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) showed that both engine fuel-control switches moved from “RUN” to “CUTOFF” just seconds after liftoff, causing a catastrophic loss of thrust. Cockpit voice recordings captured one pilot asking the other why fuel had been cut off, with the response: “I did not.”

Since then, speculation has swirled around whether the switches were moved intentionally or accidentally. However, the AAIB has repeatedly rejected media reports that attributed the crash to pilot action, calling such conclusions “incorrect and speculative” while emphasizing that the investigation remains ongoing.

A significant development has come from simulator testing conducted by Air India training captains. According to accounts of the investigation, crews recreated multiple scenarios based on known flight conditions and found that the aircraft should have remained flyable even with severe configuration errors, including flap-related issues and asymmetric thrust. Investigators also reportedly attempted to reproduce electrical-failure scenarios that could lead to a dual-engine shutdown, but the tests highlighted the complexity of the event and reinforced questions about how both engines lost power almost simultaneously.

A year after the Ahmedabad Air India tragedy, which claimed 260 lives after the AI-171 flight crashed moments after taking off from the airport into the BJ Medical College hostel in Ahmedabad on June 12, 2025, first responders and eyewitnesses still recall the crash.

The timeline reconstructed from flight-recorder data has become a central focus. The near-simultaneous movement of both fuel switches within roughly one second, followed by attempts to restore fuel flow, has led some aviation experts to argue that investigators must examine potential system interactions, electrical anomalies, or other technical failures before assigning responsibility.

Meanwhile, the AAIB says it is still conducting extensive analysis of engine components, flight data, maintenance records, and operational procedures. Recent statements indicate that ongoing engine examinations are among the reasons the final report has been delayed beyond the first anniversary of the crash. Investigators have stressed that the final findings will only be released after all technical reviews and international consultations are completed.

For now, the available evidence appears to challenge early assumptions of pilot culpability. While no definitive cause has been established, the emerging picture suggests investigators are scrutinizing potential aircraft-system failures just as closely as human factors in their search for answers.

https://www.outlookindia.com/national/a ... ilot-error
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Écrasez l'infâme! When you design tactics to maximise suffering on civilian populations and your only constraint is operational rather than moral, you've told the world who you are.
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