Fire and Fury

Post by **spot** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:12 am

I note the chap just petulantly tweeted his refusal to go to London for the formal opening of the Sauron Memorial Surveillance Headquarters ahead of not attending the Royal Wedding, not greeting crowds of flag-waving enthusiastic Londoners from the Royal Coach and not being polite to Sadiq Khan. He will be represented by his friend and colleague the one-time junior United States Senator from Illinois, Barack Obama.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:28 pm

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:32 am

spot;1517182 wrote: I note the chap just petulantly tweeted his refusal to go to London for the formal opening of the Sauron Memorial Surveillance Headquarters ahead of not attending the Royal Wedding, not greeting crowds of flag-waving enthusiastic Londoners from the Royal Coach and not being polite to Sadiq Khan. He will be represented by his friend and colleague the one-time junior United States Senator from Illinois, Barack Obama.

I'm almost sorry he isn't coming it would be nice if theresay may et al could see what ordinary people really think abouit the "special" relationship. Be interesting to see if he gets an invite to the next let's distract people from the really important issues event known as the royal wedding.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:04 pm

gmc;1517226 wrote: Be interesting to see if he gets an invite to the next let's distract people from the really important issues event known as the royal wedding.

I am sure Trump will NOT be invited to the nuptials, but because of that, unfortunately, neither will Barack & Michelle Obama.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:52 pm

Wandrin;1517175 wrote: Trump's presidency would be a slapstick comedy akin to those about the drunk kids who lost their cars or whatever, if it didn't have real life consequences. I really don't know if he is so delusional that he thinks people adore him and what he is doing or whether he is just plain dumb.

I"m trying to stay focused and not let it get to me, but I often fail at that. That makes me disappointed in myself for letting him "win".

Dont feel to bad....we had our "Abbot".....fortunetly we were able to get rid of him though.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:54 pm

AnneBoleyn;1517235 wrote: I am sure Trump will NOT be invited to the nuptials, but because of that, unfortunately, neither will Barack & Michelle Obama.

Why not? Theyre personal friends.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:51 am

magentaflame;1517244 wrote: Why not? Theyre personal friends.

I don't think Britain wants to outwardly, publicly, royally insult Trump that much by inviting a former US president & not the current one, but of course we have to wait & see.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:32 am

I suspect the Obamas will be invited - the news reports here have assumed it will happen.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:36 pm

AnneBoleyn;1517245 wrote: I don't think Britain wants to outwardly, publicly, royally insult Trump that much by inviting a former US president & not the current one, but of course we have to wait & see.

Insulting trump perhaps but how is that insulting america? I'd have thought most americans would be completely indifferent.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:00 pm

tude dog;1516923 wrote: In two weeks it will be, "WHAT BOOK?".

I thought I'd check on Google. Over Sunday 14th January the book was discussed in the following news articles. I'll check again in another week, we'll see.

Action News Now 7h ago

Al-Manar TV 13h ago

Baltimore Sun 12h ago

Blasting News 6h ago

Bowling Green Daily News 17h ago

Daily Mail 20h ago

Delano.lu 18h ago

Global Times 11h ago

Greensboro News & Record 18h ago

Hot Air 6h ago

HuffPost 16h ago

HuffPost UK 5h ago

Independent.ie 21h ago

International Business Times UK 18h ago

Kaplan Herald 10h ago

Kaplan Herald 11h ago

Kaplan Herald 16m ago

Kaplan Herald 52m ago

Kaplan Herald 6h ago

Kaplan Herald 6h ago

Kaplan Herald 8h ago

Knoxville News Sentinel 11h ago

Las Vegas Sun 13h ago

Luxora Leader 10h ago

Luxora Leader 10h ago

Luxora Leader 6h ago

MassisPost 20h ago

New Kerala 4h ago

New Telegraph Newspaper 22h ago

Newsmax 22h ago

Observer-Reporter 18h ago

Press Herald 14h ago

Siskiyou Daily News 3h ago

South China Morning Post 11h ago

Stillwater News Press 11h ago

The Atlantic 12h ago

The Daily Star 1h ago

The Guardian 16h ago

The Ledger 18h ago

The Mercury News 9h ago

The New European 10h ago

The Sun 12h ago

The Times 23h ago

The Times 23h ago

Toledo Blade 4h ago

Toronto Star 10h ago

Truth-Out 9h ago

mykawartha.com 5h ago

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:02 am

It's not a State Wedding like William and Kate's I believe, it's a private family wedding. I have no idea what royal protocol - if any - applies for that. My guess is there's no official reason why Obama and family couldn't be invited. I've no idea if the government or Foreign Office are having quiet words. Personally I feel Obama would be a very appropriate guest: the first black POTUS there to see the first black Princess.

Had a phone call from a friend just after he heard Trump wasn't coming to open the new embassy, lamenting the lost chance to go and express our feelings about him (we had plans). He not normally a protester. I think that tells you that any Trump visit will get a huge anti - Trump protest out on the streets, possibly a pro Trump pro brexit counter-protest (they tried it already at a speech of Mayor Khan's) and a good chance of violence.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:04 am

gmc;1517249 wrote: Insulting trump perhaps but how is that insulting america? I'd have thought most americans would be completely indifferent.

I said insulting trump. I said nothing about insulting america. Some might be insulted, like trump's base of 30%. Some people look for ways to be insulted and live their lives perpetually offended.

I think the royal family would not want to make a public faux pas and would rather not invite Obama if it causes an international ruckus. It ain't worth it, and Obama is above such nonsense.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:06 am

spot;1517246 wrote: I suspect the Obamas will be invited - the news reports here have assumed it will happen.

Perhaps. What the hell do I know anyway? Just a damn yankee, me.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:13 am

Clodhopper;1517254 wrote: It's not a State Wedding like William and Kate's I believe, it's a private family wedding. I have no idea what royal protocol - if any - applies for that. My guess is there's no official reason why Obama and family couldn't be invited. I've no idea if the government or Foreign Office are having quiet words. Personally I feel Obama would be a very appropriate guest: the first black POTUS there to see the first black Princess.

If that's the best reason to invite Obama it seems rather crass & sensationalist. Maybe I've been watching too much of The Crown.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:08 am

AnneBoleyn;1517245 wrote: I don't think Britain wants to outwardly, publicly, royally insult Trump that much by inviting a former US president & not the current one, but of course we have to wait & see.

If it was a state affair, you are probably right. But since it is family, I can't imagine them inviting The Donald. I am sure that some of his meathead followers will find an offense there, somehow.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:12 am

spot;1517253 wrote: I thought I'd check on Google. Over Sunday 14th January the book was discussed in the following news articles. I'll check again in another week, we'll see.

Action News Now 7h ago

Al-Manar TV 13h ago

Baltimore Sun 12h ago

Blasting News 6h ago

Bowling Green Daily News 17h ago

Daily Mail 20h ago

Delano.lu 18h ago

Global Times 11h ago

Greensboro News & Record 18h ago

Hot Air 6h ago

HuffPost 16h ago

HuffPost UK 5h ago

Independent.ie 21h ago

International Business Times UK 18h ago

Kaplan Herald 10h ago

Kaplan Herald 11h ago

Kaplan Herald 16m ago

Kaplan Herald 52m ago

Kaplan Herald 6h ago

Kaplan Herald 6h ago

Kaplan Herald 8h ago

Knoxville News Sentinel 11h ago

Las Vegas Sun 13h ago

Luxora Leader 10h ago

Luxora Leader 10h ago

Luxora Leader 6h ago

MassisPost 20h ago

New Kerala 4h ago

New Telegraph Newspaper 22h ago

Newsmax 22h ago

Observer-Reporter 18h ago

Press Herald 14h ago

Siskiyou Daily News 3h ago

South China Morning Post 11h ago

Stillwater News Press 11h ago

The Atlantic 12h ago

The Daily Star 1h ago

The Guardian 16h ago

The Ledger 18h ago

The Mercury News 9h ago

The New European 10h ago

The Sun 12h ago

The Times 23h ago

The Times 23h ago

Toledo Blade 4h ago

Toronto Star 10h ago

Truth-Out 9h ago

mykawartha.com 5h ago

I did notice a few reputable news outlets on that list.

I have placed that book onto the "books I will only read when I don't have to pay for them, and I am out of comic books and catalogs." list

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:59 am

AnneBoleyn;1517259 wrote: If that's the best reason to invite Obama it seems rather crass & sensationalist. Maybe I've been watching too much of The Crown.

Well, my understanding is that Barack became friends with Harry over the Invictus Games and it's the friendship that would cause the invite if it doesn't cause an international incident. The appropriateness I refer to is merely incidental and appeals to the historian in me.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:09 pm

AnneBoleyn;1517257 wrote: I said insulting trump. I said nothing about insulting america. Some might be insulted, like trump's base of 30%. Some people look for ways to be insulted and live their lives perpetually offended.

I think the royal family would not want to make a public faux pas and would rather not invite Obama if it causes an international ruckus. It ain't worth it, and Obama is above such nonsense.

My apologies I hadn't read it properly. I think some americans willpossibly take umbrage.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:41 pm

LarsMac;1517261 wrote: If it was a state affair, you are probably right. But since it is family, I can't imagine them inviting The Donald. I am sure that some of his meathead followers will find an offense there, somehow.

Some folks live to be offended. (I find that offensive :yh_wink)

eta--for spot: the emoticon is that of a wink

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:43 pm

gmc;1517265 wrote: My apologies I hadn't read it properly. I think some americans willpossibly take umbrage.

Actually, I'd love it if Barack got invited & the sh!thole didn't. They haven't put me in charge of the guest list, unfortunately.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:11 am

AnneBoleyn;1517268 wrote: Actually, I'd love it if Barack got invited & the sh!thole didn't. They haven't put me in charge of the guest list, unfortunately.

So would I. The sight of our government kowtowing to him and the prospect of the UK post brexit being flooded with american food exports that are benned from the eu to the detriment of our own farmers is alarming. For a bunch of tossers waving the patriot flag and taking back control the brexiteers seem all too ready to bend over for the sake of a non existent special relationship..

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:54 am

So would I. The sight of our government kowtowing to him and the prospect of the UK post brexit being flooded with american food exports that are benned from the eu to the detriment of our own farmers is alarming. For a bunch of tossers waving the patriot flag and taking back control the brexiteers seem all too ready to bend over for the sake of a non existent special relationship..

There is a special relationship between the UK and US, I think, but it's not an active political alliance or anything like that. It does however keep cropping up in our history in all sorts of ways.

Now we have a black American becoming a black British princess and are discussing implications. We can do so easily with language and culture enough in common to see eachothers' points.

At the London Olympics I recall Michael Johnson(iirc) running round Stonehenge with the Olympic torch. Somehow, somewhy, our two countries between them are making big points about people and those points matter. It's something aspirational, something hopeful and something celebratory and it's bigger than any single country.

In the WWs the Atlantic link was vital in securing the freedom of Europe

During the Revolution there were remarkably few atrocities between British and American, at least that I know of. If anyone does know of any atrocities I'd be interested to hear about them (I've heard something about a Brandywine incident but am not sure if it qualifies, and we burned the White House but was anyone actually hurt?). I understand that things between Loyalist and Patriot became unpleasant but even there was there much killing? There does not seem to have been a great legacy of hate, anyway, of the sort that poisons eg the Balkans (most of the hate seems to have come with the Irish, which is understandable). Chuckle. A dig in the US shown on our Time Team programme found an imported chamber pot with a little clay head of George III sticking up from the bottom to receive the homage Americans wished to offer. Made in England...

Before the Revolution, redcoats acted in support of the settlers, and before that, American Puritans came to support their English and Scottish Brethren against the papist king in surprising numbers.

That's just a quick outline of big features. It doesn't mention for example the number of us who have relatives in the other place, or the slave trade except indirectly with the black people I started by talking about, or the creation of the atom bomb, or popular music. But to me, that is our special relationship: The sheer amount of shared history and a lot of it co-operative and big issue stuff especially compared to relationships with other countries. And it's ongoing, as the wedding shows. There even seem to be links between Trump and brexit.

Australia, New Zealand and Canada are different. Rightly or wrongly I consider them more like family. The US is not. Heck, it's not always been possible to say we are friends. But we both call the Atlantic the Pond.

Other than that, I agree

edit: I'm remembering something about some Bostonians being shot in a riot connected with the Revolution. Definitely some killed there and propaganda use made of it.

Post by **spot** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:18 am

Clodhopper;1517326 wrote: During the Revolution there were remarkably few atrocities between British and American, at least that I know of.I always thought Robert Browning's "How They Brought the Good News from Ghent to Aix" qualified, but having just looked it turns out not to be about the American Revolution at all. That's fifty years preconception down the drain.

It's definitely an atrocity though.

Not a word to each other; we kept the great pace

Neck by neck, stride by stride, never changing our place;

I turned in my saddle and made its girths tight,

Then shortened each stirrup, and set the pique right,

Rebuckled the cheek-strap, chained slacker the bit,

Nor galloped less steadily Roland a whit.

https://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/poet ... ning2.html

A viler doggerelist never wrote.

I was confused by Paul Revere's Ride, no doubt.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:34 am

One of the Glorifiers of Empire and the Amazing English who Created and Ran It while Fighting French Tyranny! (with a few Scottish, Welsh and Irish sidekicks...

)

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:45 am

I am a non-violent person. But our current president is such an a$$hole, that if we were both were back in high school...I would kick his a$$. Hard.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:47 am

Clodhopper;1517326 wrote: There is a special relationship between the UK and US, I think, but it's not an active political alliance or anything like that. It does however keep cropping up in our history in all sorts of ways.

I'm glad to hear someone else say that. It's certainly how I have always felt. Kind of like having distant relatives who you are very fond of, but don't see often. the number of Brts on this board is one of the reasons I hang around here despite my incredibly busy days. (I work four jobs and take care of an invalid girl.)

Now we have a black American becoming a black British princess

Strange for you, but a joy for us. We have no royalty to adore...just rich white jerks and nobody likes them.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:21 am

Strange for you, but a joy for us. We have no royalty to adore...just rich white jerks and nobody likes them.

It's not strange. It's definitely a joy....Having spent a few minutes pondering I think it can best be described as satisfying some sort of sense of rightness. We are a multicultural multiracial society like it or not and that our royal family now reflects that modern reality feels right to me. And it's been an entirely natural, organic process: they are getting married for eachother, as it should be, but it has an impact way beyond them. I saw some American tweets from black women...I can't exactly recall them and I can't remotely do them justice in paraphrase but I think delirious with joy is a good description.

It's something that brings people closer rather than pushing them apart. It gives every mixed race marriage the highest social seal of approval. And they do seem very much in love and you have to be fairly hard hearted not to react to that.