Trump is right. Islam and Sharia do not belong is the U.S.A..

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:24 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1498231 wrote: Look up Branch Dividian to see what happens when the U.S. government does not like a religion.

We live, supposedly, in democracies and not theologies.

The law of the land trumps any religious belief.

Regards

DL

Well yes without the law of the land religious intolerance is the accepted norm without the law of the land religious people would discriminate on the grounds of religion, sex, race, lifestyle because their reluigion tells them to. To argue that the law of god are superior to the laws of man is to argue for the intolerance and hatred that religion nexcuses and justifies. ISIS is what happen when then law of god prevails.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:48 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1498231 wrote: Look up Branch Dividian to see what happens when the U.S. government does not like a religion.

We live, supposedly, in democracies and not theologies.

The law of the land trumps any religious belief.

Regards

DL

That really was not about religion. Do your homework.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:59 am

The basic foundation of all the great religions is justice and compassion. Anything else is an abuse of religious ideas and not part of that religion. "The Great Transformation" by Karen Armstrong.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:14 am

Ted;1498272 wrote: The basic foundation of all the great religions is justice and compassion. Anything else is an abuse of religious ideas and not part of that religion. "The Great Transformation" by Karen Armstrong.

I would dispute that but not in this thread.

Wonder how long it will be before trump claims god is on his side.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:37 am

Perhaps you could read the book.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:41 am

Now Trump is praising dictators like Saddam Hussein and M. Qaddafi. He would try to run America in the same way. Dangerous man.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:45 pm

Look up "Il Duche" aka Benito Mussolini. You'll see Trump's picture.

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:25 pm

gmc;1498254 wrote: Well yes without the law of the land religious intolerance is the accepted norm without the law of the land religious people would discriminate on the grounds of religion, sex, race, lifestyle because their reluigion tells them to. To argue that the law of god are superior to the laws of man is to argue for the intolerance and hatred that religion nexcuses and justifies. ISIS is what happen when then law of god prevails.

No argument on that and lest we forget, Islam goes hand in glove with Sharia which is the law of their imaginary God.

Regards

DL

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:28 pm

Ted;1498272 wrote: The basic foundation of all the great religions is justice and compassion. Anything else is an abuse of religious ideas and not part of that religion. "The Great Transformation" by Karen Armstrong.

That was what they were meant to be but certainly not what they ended up being.

It seems that the mainstream religions have all forgotten the reason they were seeking God because they have mostly become idol worshiping cults.

Idol worshipers do not deserve respect.

Regards

DL

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:34 pm

Saint_;1498371 wrote: Look up "Il Duche" aka Benito Mussolini. You'll see Trump's picture.

Different issues and the people will decide if, as in E.U. nations will move to the right to fight the left on their poor handling of massive immigration.

I see it as a fight of ideologies.

Do you prefer freedom or speech and religion as well as equality of women and gays, --- or do you like the opposite which is what Sharia preaches?

Regards

DL

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:37 pm

It really doesn't matter what Sharia law means to non-muslims.

Sharia is about how Muslims treat each other. And up to a point they should be allowed their social rules within their community.

However, Sharia must be subservient to the local law of the land, in which they live.

In the US, the rule of law should supersede all "Religious customs" whenever there is conflict. But when there is no conflict, they are free to go on about their business.

That is the foundation of the case against that idiot county clerk in Kentucky, as well as the baker in Colorado, and Hobby Lobby and Chik-Fil-A around the country.

Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:47 pm

LarsMac;1498383 wrote: It really doesn't matter what Sharia law means to non-muslims.

Sharia is about how Muslims treat each other. And up to a point they should be allowed their social rules within their community.

However, Sharia must be subservient to the local law of the land, in which they live.

In the US, the rule of law should supersede all "Religious customs" whenever there is conflict. But when there is no conflict, they are free to go on about their business.

That is the foundation of the case against that idiot county clerk in Kentucky, as well as the baker in Colorado, and Hobby Lobby and Chik-Fil-A around the country.

No argument that that is how things are supposed to work, but to Muslim women, who would lose their whole way of life if they went to another court, your truth means nothing.

Sharia treats women like chattel or worse and they are forced to use them. Sharia does not recognize freedom of speech and religion, nor does it grant women and gays equality before the law and only immoral people will promote it.

If a Government does not insure that all of it's citizens have access to legal services without prejudice, then it is not doing it's duty to it's citizen.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:41 am

Gnostic we don't always agree between you and I but in this case I'm completely in agreement. Let's not forget honor killings, East Indian folk who came to Canada in order to plan attacks in India, or the extremists of any culture.

Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:55 am

Ted;1498410 wrote: Gnostic we don't always agree between you and I but in this case I'm completely in agreement. Let's not forget honor killings, East Indian folk who came to Canada in order to plan attacks in India, or the extremists of any culture.

Thanks for this Ted.

Regards

DL

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:00 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1498384 wrote: No argument that that is how things are supposed to work, but to Muslim women, who would lose their whole way of life if they went to another court, your truth means nothing.

Sharia treats women like chattel or worse and they are forced to use them. Sharia does not recognize freedom of speech and religion, nor does it grant women and gays equality before the law and only immoral people will promote it.

If a Government does not insure that all of it's citizens have access to legal services without prejudice, then it is not doing it's duty to it's citizen.

Regards

DL

Actually they are not immoral they are in fact highly moral the issue is they follow a moral code that you reject and see as immoral.

If a Government does not insure that all of it's citizens have access to legal services without prejudice, then it is not doing it's duty to it's citizen.

That is a secular world view the concept of human rights and equality before the law owes nothing to religion and it's one followers of monotheistic religions struggle with as at it's heart is the notion that even non-believers have equal rights. It's not just islam that has problens with women's equality it's within living memory that women were given the vote at the same age as men (1928 in the Uk). You don't have to look very far to see the morality of any religion when it comes to extending equal rights to LBGT people or in trying to prevent access to contraception even for non beievers all on "moral" grounds.

It's not that islam is an immoral religion, far from it, but it has the same problem that all religions do in that to believe you are expected to give up your right to make and accept the responsibility for your own decisions thinking for yourself is frowned upon. Being your own man or woman is hard inn a culture that does it's best to prevent yopu doing so.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:22 am

What GCB ignores is that most of the customs that he wants to blame on Islam were customs long before The Prophet was a gleam in his daddy's eye.

Same with Christian, Jewish, Hindu and other religions. The customs were in place before the religion. The immorality is that religious leaders of the early days could not convince people that their customs were wrong. (Probably found a lot fewer followers, when they really tried.)

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:49 am

I have to disagree that in, say, Christianity requires folks to give up control to someone else. Yes it was like that in the past for some but not all. In the time of Jesus there was not one Judaism but many Judaisms. So today as then there are several Christianities. No all require folks to hang up their brain at the entrance to the church. People who think for themselves are welcome and listened to.

Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:45 pm

gmc;1498454 wrote: Actually they are not immoral they are in fact highly moral the issue is they follow a moral code that you reject and see as immoral.

That is a secular world view the concept of human rights and equality before the law owes nothing to religion and it's one followers of monotheistic religions struggle with as at it's heart is the notion that even non-believers have equal rights. It's not just islam that has problens with women's equality it's within living memory that women were given the vote at the same age as men (1928 in the Uk). You don't have to look very far to see the morality of any religion when it comes to extending equal rights to LBGT people or in trying to prevent access to contraception even for non beievers all on "moral" grounds.

It's not that islam is an immoral religion, far from it, but it has the same problem that all religions do in that to believe you are expected to give up your right to make and accept the responsibility for your own decisions thinking for yourself is frowned upon. Being your own man or woman is hard inn a culture that does it's best to prevent yopu doing so.

Yet you say that Islam and Sharia are moral while showing some of their immorality.

Sigh. Just a bit of data.

Still think Islam and Sharia are moral constructs?

Regards

DL

Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:53 pm

Ted;1498470 wrote: I have to disagree that in, say, Christianity requires folks to give up control to someone else. Yes it was like that in the past for some but not all. In the time of Jesus there was not one Judaism but many Judaisms. So today as then there are several Christianities. No all require folks to hang up their brain at the entrance to the church. People who think for themselves are welcome and listened to.

For the left wings of Christianity, I agree.

I cannot agree on the more right wing and Catholic sects though. They are as intolerant as Muslims and Islam.

Those have banned me in almost all cases.

If I was living in Constantine's day, his church would have killed me by now.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:33 pm

Gnostic I actually agree with that. Put a mark on the wall. LOL

Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:56 am

Ted;1498475 wrote: Gnostic I actually agree with that. Put a mark on the wall. LOL

I already have a few other marks on the wall where I have gotten you to agree with me on things.

:-4

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:21 pm