Trump is right. Islam and Sharia do not belong is the U.S.A..

Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:10 am

gmc;1491403 wrote: I was trying to take accounts of your sensibilities usually when you talk about the church people assume you mean the catholic one and the usual response is along the lines of you're just picking on us and ignoring any factual content or defending the right of the church to talke the "moral high ground". But since you bring it up their intereference has done a great deal of harm in south america and africa especially when it comes to matters like family planning and human rights and the christian right in america would become like the taliban in tyhe right circumstances.

I'll give you the link again

After Charlie Hebdo, pope says free speech has its limits | Crux

It's the catholic news agancy is that unbiased enough for you? try searching for that agency of the link does nopt work.

Vatican paper blasts Charlie Hebdo cover as 'insulting' to all faiths :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)

CatholicHerald.co.uk » Debate: Is Pope Francis right to say there is a limit to freedom of speech?

posted by gnostic christian bishop

There are some would say th catholoc church is not truly christian But I'm just not going there let the christianbs argue amongst themselves..

They do. Thus showing how screwed up they are.

One bible and look at all the cults that came out of it.

Regards

DL

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:08 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491392 wrote: Add me to that list.

Jesus was right when he was made to say that we are to follow our religions in private.

One of the few bits of wisdom not edited out of the bible.

Regards

DL

Not to worry. You've been on my list for a while.

Mark Aspam · Post by **Mark Aspam** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:41 am

gmc;1491403 wrote: There are some would say th catholoc church is not truly christian But I'm just not going there let the christianbs argue amongst themselves..Well, there are two (at least 2) kinds of people who would say that.

a. There are people who are just plain stupid. Some of them can't even spell "Catholic".

b. There are people who know that isn't true but say it anyway. That is, of course, bearing false witness, a direct violation of a commandment.

I don't judge such people, God will, and fairly.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:01 pm

Mark Aspam;1491413 wrote: Well, there are two (at least 2) kinds of people who would say that.

a. There are people who are just plain stupid. Some of them can't even spell "Catholic".

b. There are people who know that isn't true but say it anyway. That is, of course, bearing false witness, a direct violation of a commandment.

I don't judge such people, God will, and fairly.

Actually I can spell very well indeed. I can type as well it's both together that sometimes go badly wong.

So all protestants are stupid are they? Millions died over that particular discussion and it still divides communities today but for me the basic assumption that there is a god is rather badly flawed and makes the debate a bit silly an opinion that would have got me persecuted by both sides in thbe old days.

There are people who know that isn't true but say it anyway. That is, of course, bearing false witness, a direct violation of a commandment.

Oh the temptation to wind you up about commandments being ignored or ask whether you reaaly do believe in transubstantiation but actually your being a catholic is your choice I can respect you right to follow your faith I just wish your church ( and all the others) would stop trying to claim they have an insight no one else has and people like the pope accept the days when religion could not be challenged are long gone. Extremisits do not have the moral right to kill people that they decide have insulted their faith and it's about time that the institutionalised mysogyny of the various religions from the middle east is seen for what it is a primitive nonsense that should have no place in society.

Trump is right in a way except christianity perhaps also should not have a place in the modern US of A. You cannot have libertb and justice for all when you have organisations that believe the authority that comes from god supercedes that of the people.

Mark Aspam · Post by **Mark Aspam** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:40 pm

gmc;1491416 wrote: So all protestants are stupid are they? See, there you go again.

Nothing I've posted in this thread, and for that matter in any other thread, supports such an accusation. The spelling thing was just a little joke. The rest was serious.

I've also freely admitted here, several times over, that I do not consider myself a particularly devout Catholic, but I resent deliberate false witness against the religion in which I grew up and also against other religions - it's just that I'm more knowledgeable about my own.

Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:47 pm

LarsMac;1491409 wrote: Not to worry. You've been on my list for a while.

Regards

DL

Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:51 pm

Mark Aspam;1491413 wrote: Well, there are two (at least 2) kinds of people who would say that.

a. There are people who are just plain stupid. Some of them can't even spell "Catholic".

b. There are people who know that isn't true but say it anyway. That is, of course, bearing false witness, a direct violation of a commandment.

I don't judge such people, God will, and fairly.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This quote is a part of God's first judgement.

It is an immoral judgement where he demands and accepts a bribe or sacrifice to corrupt his usual judgement that the guilty should be punished and not the innocent.

That judgement was certainly not fair so what makes you think he is a fair judge?

Regards

DL

Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:54 pm

Mark Aspam;1491417 wrote: See, there you go again.

Nothing I've posted in this thread, and for that matter in any other thread, supports such an accusation. The spelling thing was just a little joke. The rest was serious.

I've also freely admitted here, several times over, that I do not consider myself a particularly devout Catholic, but I resent deliberate false witness against the religion in which I grew up and also against other religions - it's just that I'm more knowledgeable about my own.

False witness has to do with lying.

No one is as great of a liar as your God.

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jer 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

Thessalonians 2:11

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. - Jeremiah 20:7

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

That pesky God sure works in mysterious and lying ways.

Regards

DL

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:03 am

Mark Aspam;1491417 wrote: See, there you go again.

Nothing I've posted in this thread, and for that matter in any other thread, supports such an accusation. The spelling thing was just a little joke. The rest was serious.

I've also freely admitted here, several times over, that I do not consider myself a particularly devout Catholic, but I resent deliberate false witness against the religion in which I grew up and also against other religions - it's just that I'm more knowledgeable about my own.

Well, there are two (at least 2) kinds of people who would say that.

a. There are people who are just plain stupid. Some of them can't even spell "Catholic"

your comment was in response to one of mine.

There are some would say th catholoc church is not truly christian But I'm just not going there let the christianbs argue amongst themselves..

The crack about spelling I assumed was a joke. Protestants and catholics argue and have killed each other over which is the one true christian church. I assume you know the history. Those who say the catholic church are not christian are not stupid nor are they joking about it they're deadly serious it's an issue that splits communities in places like northern ireland. I didn't realise you were being humourous

In the midddle eat sunni is slaughtering shia over exactly the same kind of issue which is the true version of islam. Same kind of disagreement as well do you follow a priest or imam to find salvation or find your own way

I've also freely admitted here, several times over, that I do not consider myself a particularly devout Catholic, but I resent deliberate false witness against the religion in which I grew up and also against other religions - it's just that I'm more knowledgeable about my own.

Where has the false witness acusation come from? The link I posted is to an actual tape of the interview where you can hear what the pope actually says.

Mark Aspam · Post by **Mark Aspam** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:07 am

gmc;1491432 wrote: 1. The crack about spelling I assumed was a joke.

2. Protestants and catholics argue and have killed each other over which is the one true christian church. I assume you know the history.

3. Those who say the catholic church are not christian are not stupid nor are they joking about it they're deadly serious it's an issue that splits communities in places like northern ireland.

4. Where has the false witness ac[c]usation come from? The link I posted is to an actual tape of the interview where you can hear what the pope actually says.1. You assumed correctly.

2. I know something of the history, but you make it sound as if it is an ongoing thing. I know lots of Protestants and we get along fine. I also know a LOT of Jews, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.

3. Well, I'm no expert on Irish/English affairs, but it seems to me that the problem here is less one of religion and more that England is occupying six counties which don't belong to it. In that regard, I've often mused on what would happen if Canada decided to take over Montana, North Dakota and Minnesota!

4. Oh, there is no dispute here that he made those remarks. It's your rather bizarre interpretation of them that annoys me.

g, arguments with you tend to become circular quickly, and consequently a waste of time and web space.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:21 am

Oh, there is no dispute here that he made those remarks. It's your rather bizarre interpretation of them that annoys me.

Why do you think it's bizarre?

I know something of the history, but you make it sound as if it is an ongoing thing. I know lots of Protestants and we get along fine. I also know a LOT of Jews, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.

it's not usually something that comes up unless it comes to football where which team you support shows your affiliation of catholic or or protestant. I know protestants, catholics and muslims and one or two jews. I live in a part of the country where orange walks take place each year and catholics and protestants argue over whether primary age children attending a non-denominational school should enter by the same door It is bubbling under the surface there are always those around who would stoke the fires. After the referendum the thugs that invaded george square in glasgow and attacked SNP supporters were the same kind of orange/protestant thugs you get at football matches. You kind of have to be here to understand it. It's a cancer that's grows and diminishes. Currentkly they are debating whether to continue with legislation banning sectarian singing at football matches. You're right though it;s in the main irrelevant to this thread

Well, I'm no expert on Irish/English affairs, but it seems to me that the problem here is less one of religion and more that England is occupying six counties which don't belong to it. In that regard, I've often mused on what would happen if Canada decided to take over Montana, North Dakota and Minnesota!

It was about religion and still is. The ulster plantation was when they inported mainly scottish protestants to the six counties as a way of suppressing the catholic rebels. They took the best land and fiorced many cathiolics to emigrate or on to poorer quality land. It was racism as well the irish and scot gaels almost had their culture destroyed.

1689 the english bill of rights is anti-catholic have a read if you don;lt believe me.

arguments with you tend to become circular quickly, and consequently a waste of time and web space.

Very true it's because on some things you can only agree to disagree. I feel you don't really answer the points just ignore the ones you find inconvenient like what the pope actually said. I've got so used to posters assuming I'm just making things up rather than bothering to check the links I usually post as well.

Care to document that from a RELIABLE source, not anti-Catholic garbage material? I would have asked earlier, but I just now discovered the thread.

Criticising what the catholic church does not make you anti-catholic. That's the defence the used by the church when talking about the publicity about paedophile priests, the allegations weren't true just anti-catholic so lets just pretend it all didn't happen.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:17 pm

"I've often mused on what would happen if Canada decided to take over Montana, North Dakota and Minnesota!"

Total waste of time, Mark. You are describing us, not Canada. Canada doesn't behave this way.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:51 pm

According to a doctor of mine the problems in Ireland are not about religion. It is about power and money. He is from the north and she is from the south and she also agrees with that. Religion is just the excuse. When are we going to get over this nonsense. We are all human beings.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:13 am

Ted;1491458 wrote: According to a doctor of mine the problems in Ireland are not about religion. It is about power and money. He is from the north and she is from the south and she also agrees with that. Religion is just the excuse. When are we going to get over this nonsense. We are all human beings.

Ah a marxist. It's true to as large extent it was about power and money it was about do you have a constuitutional monarchy or the rule by kings divinely ordained by god. Who rules the people or someone born to it and ordained by god with a divine right to rule.

Most conflicts it's also true are about power and money, religion is used as a tool by the powerful to manipulate the weak and control the population. Religion in the mix tends to make any conflict more bitter, harder to resolve and agreat deal more bloody with the protagonists commiting the most appaling savagaries on each other. Cause and effect or effect and cause you tell me - I can never decide. It's all about money and power is not a full answer since that doesn't answer why the poor and powerless willingly do all the fighting. Nor is it simply about religion. I don't think we'll ever get over this nonsense and definitely not if we let the notion that religion should somehow be above criticism get a hold

If he is protestant and she is catholic out of curiosity ask how their families racted to them getting together.

Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:19 am

Ted;1491458 wrote: According to a doctor of mine the problems in Ireland are not about religion. It is about power and money. He is from the north and she is from the south and she also agrees with that. Religion is just the excuse. When are we going to get over this nonsense. We are all human beings.

Yes we are and that is the problem. We put our own survival ahead of the survival of others.

We let emotions guide us instead of demographics and statistics.

Perhaps when we have an intelligent computer, we will be bright enough to listen to it.

Regards

DL

Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:24 am

gmc;1491479 wrote: Ah a marxist. It's true to as large extent it was about power and money it was about do you have a constuitutional monarchy or the rule by kings divinely ordained by god. Who rules the people or someone born to it and ordained by god with a divine right to rule.

Most conflicts it's also true are about power and money, religion is used as a tool by the powerful to manipulate the weak and control the population. Religion in the mix tends to make any conflict more bitter, harder to resolve and agreat deal more bloody with the protagonists commiting the most appaling savagaries on each other. Cause and effect or effect and cause you tell me - I can never decide. It's all about money and power is not a full answer since that doesn't answer why the poor and powerless willingly do all the fighting. Nor is it simply about religion. I don't think we'll ever get over this nonsense and definitely not if we let the notion that religion should somehow be above criticism get a hold

If he is protestant and she is catholic out of curiosity ask how their families racted to them getting together.

If adults continue to indoctrinate kids so deeply as to prevent them from befriending others not of their ilk, things will never improve on the rapprochement of diverse races and religions.

Listen to how parents have ruined these children with their indoctrination and brainwashing.

LiveLeak.com - Immigrants say germans are disgusting, should disappear

I hate them for what they eat. How stupid.

Regards

DL

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:36 am

It's the same for any culture. If you don't like the culture of the country you move to - don't move there.

Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:53 am

FourPart;1491483 wrote: It's the same for any culture. If you don't like the culture of the country you move to - don't move there.

That would be ideal.

Muslims who try to push Sharia in places like Australia are being told just that.

Let us pray that the rest of the world governments have the same size of balls.

British song writing art is in line, but the British government seems to be too politically correct to speak the truth.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:18 pm

On the news last evening. There is a man who would like to lead the conservative party but he is a clone of trump. These are dangerous people.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:20 am

It's not just in the US that he's trying to have his way...

Donald Trump loses battle to 'protect' Scottish golf course from wind farm - Telegraph

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:34 pm

I guess one could say the Donald Trump is more than a little arrogant. LOL

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:08 pm

Ted;1491498 wrote: On the news last evening. There is a man who would like to lead the conservative party but he is a clone of trump. These are dangerous people.

Most on the right are and that is why I am seldom on their side.

They seem less likely to ignore the real threat of Islam and Sharia though and this is the first time in years that I find myself in their camp.

That is likely because Islam is so much further right than usual.

Regards

DL

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:13 pm

FourPart;1491512 wrote: It's not just in the US that he's trying to have his way...

Donald Trump loses battle to 'protect' Scottish golf course from wind farm - Telegraph

LOL.

How stupid of the courts.

With such a big ocean, one would think that the courts and country would want to protect good tourist venues and just move the turbines elsewhere.

Regards

DL

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:15 pm

Ted;1491517 wrote: I guess one could say the Donald Trump is more than a little arrogant. LOL

He and I have sales backgrounds and one makes a poor salesman without a bit of that.

No confidence or arogance shows lack of thought.

Regards

DL

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:46 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491521 wrote: Most on the right are and that is why I am seldom on their side.

They seem less likely to ignore the real threat of Islam and Sharia though and this is the first time in years that I find myself in their camp.

That is likely because Islam is so much further right than usual.

Regards

DL

It's a bit of a quandary, IMO. If people vote for right-wing parties, sure, they may get a certain amount of protection from the ultra right-wing sharia/extreme Islam mob, but it comes at a price (strong-arm government tactics/reduced protection for vunerable or needy people/reduction in civil rights and liberties)-all under the guise of protecting the populace. As you rightly state in a later post, these people are 'salesmen' (and skillful manipulators);-giving with one hand and taking with the other!

Having said this, I have sympathy with certain viewpoints regarding the restriction of mass immigration because of the shock this tends to have on large segments of the 'indigenous' population. You only have to look at recent events in Germany and Sweden ( to name but a couple) for this to be self-evident, yet despite these currently unfolding events there are those that choose to 'bury their heads in the sand' and pretend all is well! I feel that these people need to come down from their marshmallowland ivory towers and take a good, hard, honest look at the REAL world (and the events unfolding in it) and think again!

Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:25 pm

Smaug;1491527 wrote: It's a bit of a quandary, IMO. If people vote for right-wing parties, sure, they may get a certain amount of protection from the ultra right-wing sharia/extreme Islam mob, but it comes at a price (strong-arm government tactics/reduced protection for vunerable or needy people/reduction in civil rights and liberties)-all under the guise of protecting the populace. As you rightly state in a later post, these people are 'salesmen' (and skillful manipulators);-giving with one hand and taking with the other!

Having said this, I have sympathy with certain viewpoints regarding the restriction of mass immigration because of the shock this tends to have on large segments of the 'indigenous' population. You only have to look at recent events in Germany and Sweden ( to name but a couple) for this to be self-evident, yet despite these currently unfolding events there are those that choose to 'bury their heads in the sand' and pretend all is well! I feel that these people need to come down from their marshmallowland ivory towers and take a good, hard, honest look at the REAL world (and the events unfolding in it) and think again!

The current batch of politicians will have to be replaced before that happens. IMO.

They are mostly left but are proving to be regressive left.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:57 pm

Perhaps Donald's policy manual is titles "Mein Kampf"

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:31 pm

Fundamentalism is the evil in all of the great faiths of the world.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:29 pm

Ted;1491535 wrote: Perhaps Donald's policy manual is titles "Mein Kampf"

Was very impressed how Trump sincerely stuck up for New York City. That's where the real Donald Trump is. I don't know the game he is playing, but playing he is. My son still believes Trump is a democratic operative, & his statement to Cruz is the first real public evidence of that.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:14 am

Ted;1491535 wrote: Perhaps Donald's policy manual is titles "Mein Kampf"

hitler's was the bible.

“Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . .ï»¿ We need believing people.

• Adolf Hitler

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.

• Adolf Hitler

“What luck for rulers that men do not think.

• Adolf Hitler

posted by gnostic bishop

LOL.

How stupid of the courts.

With such a big ocean, one would think that the courts and country would want to protect good tourist venues and just move the turbines elsewhere.

Regards

DL

Actually that golf course cost the snp a lot of votes or more accurately salmond's support for it - who knows maybe enough to swing te referendum.:sneaky:

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:17 am

Hitler focused his hate preaching towards the Jews.

Trump focuses his hate preaching towards the Muslims.

The worrying thing is that it's a formula that works.

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:37 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491534 wrote: The current batch of politicians will have to be replaced before that happens. IMO.

They are mostly left but are proving to be regressive left.

Regards

DL

With wishy-washy lets-all-hold-hands-together policies that suit nobody! You can't please all the people all the time, so they should pick a 'side' and stick to it!

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:40 am

FourPart;1491554 wrote: Hitler focused his hate preaching towards the Jews.

Trump focuses his hate preaching towards the Muslims.

The worrying thing is that it's a formula that works.

True indeed! However, most of the hate that comes our way is instigated by followers of fundamental Islam....So that's hardly surprising!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:03 am

Smaug;1491556 wrote: True indeed! However, most of the hate that comes our way is instigated by followers of fundamental Islam....So that's hardly surprising!

And from the other side of the fence? Most of the hate that comes their way is from Christian warmongers who, in the case of GWB, declare religious war against them.

Whether we like it or not, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were unjustified and illegal and the trouble in Libya and Syria are the direct result of the West's attempts to destabilise those countries to induce regime change.

This is not as one sided as you like to make out.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:22 am

Fundamentalism in any faith is dangerous.

Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:56 am

Ted;1491535 wrote: Perhaps Donald's policy manual is titles "Mein Kampf"

Perhaps yours is.

Regards

DL

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:00 pm

Ted;1491541 wrote: Fundamentalism is the evil in all of the great faiths of the world.

I basically except for my own of course.

Please clarify though. Great as in many have taken it or great as in good and worthy to be followed?

I only know of one good one and that is the Universalist Gnostic Christianity and perhaps Buddhism.

That is likely why Christianity tried hard top rid the world of Gnostic Christianity.

Regards

DL

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:07 pm

FourPart;1491554 wrote: Hitler focused his hate preaching towards the Jews.

Trump focuses his hate preaching towards the Muslims.

The worrying thing is that it's a formula that works.

Nowhere has Trump said anything about hating Muslims.

Those who say he did are liars.

Those who see hate in his words are looking with their hate filled eyes.

I think I know as I hate Islam and Sharia and think that only those of poor morals will not agree.

Islam and Sharia, like Christianity, has not served man well and have definitely not served women or gays well as they are both homophobic and misogynous religions.

Neither deserves our respect. I do not preach that they should be hated but do not mind saying that I hate them. They are not moral creeds.

Regards

DL

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:11 pm

Smaug;1491555 wrote: With wishy-washy lets-all-hold-hands-together policies that suit nobody! You can't please all the people all the time, so they should pick a 'side' and stick to it!

I agree.

If you are going to call yourself left, then show the right the disrespect you think they deserve and vice versa.

That is the royal you BTW. Not you personally.

Was it Jesus who said to be hot or cold and not sit on the fence?

Regards

DL

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:14 pm

Bryn Mawr;1491564 wrote: And from the other side of the fence? Most of the hate that comes their way is from Christian warmongers who, in the case of GWB, declare religious war against them.

Whether we like it or not, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were unjustified and illegal and the trouble in Libya and Syria are the direct result of the West's attempts to destabilise those countries to induce regime change.

This is not as one sided as you like to make out.

Laying blame is a losers game where no one will win. That is the past. My focus is the future and an intolerant Islam who will not allow others their belief systems is presently to blame.

They are not allowing anyone a way out of this conflict.

Regards

DL

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:41 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491582 wrote: Laying blame is a losers game where no one will win. That is the past. My focus is the future and an intolerant Islam who will not allow others their belief systems is presently to blame.

They are not allowing anyone a way out of this conflict.

Regards

DL

You *cannot* understand the present or focus on the future without knowing the past and what has led to the problem.

Take a look at the two highlighted statements and you'll see the impossibility.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:35 pm

The west has played dirty pool with the middle east and now it is payback time.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:41 pm

Ted;1491596 wrote: The west has played dirty pool with the middle east and now it is payback time.

Tough. I'd rather blow them all to hell than be paid back. 9/11 was enough. I agree we have murdered them, but that doesn't mean I'll self-sacrifice. What you say is true ONLY in the sense of why it makes sense to them.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:56 pm

Look at Iran. The British and the west virtually stole their oil and left many in poverty for years. Multiply this with more countries and they have a point. I don't agree with their tactics but it is their way of looking at the issue. Lets judge on the basis of Justice. an equitable sharing of the earths resources. And if the shoe had been on the other foot??

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:47 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1491578 wrote: Perhaps yours is.

Regards

DL

Thank you GC.

I just don't like such sweeping comments.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:56 pm

AnneBoleyn;1491598 wrote: Tough. I'd rather blow them all to hell than be paid back. 9/11 was enough. I agree we have murdered them, but that doesn't mean I'll self-sacrifice. What you say is true ONLY in the sense of why it makes sense to them.

Payback is childish.

Going to get those responsible is justifiable and reason enough for satisfaction.

I fail to see the satisfaction murdering 3000+ innocent people one 9/11.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:23 pm

This Trumb guy, he's killing me.

Donald Trump misquotes scripture, appeals to religious Christian voters during speech at Liberty University

"We're going to protect Christianity,'' he said during the convocation address at Liberty University, the Lynchburg, Va., school founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell.

The 2016 front-runner then proceeded to quote from what he introduced as "Two Corinthians, 3:17," prompting chuckles among students in the crowd of more than 11,000, who pointed out that the New Testament book is generally referred to as "Second Corinthians.''

Daily News

That is a real Bible guy, Trumb is.

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:24 pm

Bryn Mawr;1491564 wrote: And from the other side of the fence? Most of the hate that comes their way is from Christian warmongers who, in the case of GWB, declare religious war against them.

Whether we like it or not, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were unjustified and illegal and the trouble in Libya and Syria are the direct result of the West's attempts to destabilise those countries to induce regime change.

This is not as one sided as you like to make out.

Whether we like it or not, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were unjustified and illegal and the trouble in Libya and Syria are the direct result of the West's attempts to destabilise those countries to induce regime change.

Also true! As I have stated in another post recently, we should stop interfering in other cultures and religions we don't understand. Iraq (2nd Gulf war) was both illegal AND unwise, and many innocent Iraqis/Libyans/Afghans have died as a result of Dubya and Bliar's (Gulf war 2 springs to mind) insistence on 'regime change'.

Those imbeciles never gave a thought for what would fill the inevitable 'power vacuums' that followed....Well I guess they found out, and as a consequence they've left the world with an extremely toxic legacy! I feel that THIS is what history will remember Blair/Bush for. I hope they feel proud of themselves....

However, my point remains that most of the hate that comes our way DOES come from fundamental Islamists, whoever is to blame for inciting the trouble we now have. A dangerous and persistent shibboleth is arising and we must deal with it before it gets totally out of hand!

However, I cannot forgive the fundamentalists for deliberately targeting innocent civilians! When we attacked Iraq to force regime change we did not deliberately target civilians to bring this about (though I'm quite certain that innocent civilians have died as a result of off-target munitions, target proximity and general hardship caused by these military actions). The fundamentalists on the other hand have, and continue to do so!

And you can be absolutely certain that they're right here, just biding their time, husbanding their strength and awaiting their opportunity... All thanks to successive corrupt, short-sighted, imbecile, quasi dictatorship governments.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:57 am

The thing to remember the actions taken by tony blair and GWB were also taken with the fukll consent of the political establishment. In the UK parliament is sovereign not the prime minister. In the US how being attacked by saudi arabia results in an invasion of iraq is like the plot out of a very bad conspiracy movie.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:03 am

Smaug;1491604 wrote: Whether we like it or not, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were unjustified and illegal and the trouble in Libya and Syria are the direct result of the West's attempts to destabilise those countries to induce regime change.

Also true! As I have stated in another post recently, we should stop interfering in other cultures and religions we don't understand. Iraq (2nd Gulf war) was both illegal AND unwise, and many innocent Iraqis/Libyans/Afghans have died as a result of Dubya and Bliar's (Gulf war 2 springs to mind) insistence on 'regime change'.

Those imbeciles never gave a thought for what would fill the inevitable 'power vacuums' that followed....Well I guess they found out, and as a consequence they've left the world with an extremely toxic legacy! I feel that THIS is what history will remember Blair/Bush for. I hope they feel proud of themselves....

However, my point remains that most of the hate that comes our way DOES come from fundamental Islamists, whoever is to blame for inciting the trouble we now have. A dangerous and persistent shibboleth is arising and we must deal with it before it gets totally out of hand!

However, I cannot forgive the fundamentalists for deliberately targeting innocent civilians! When we attacked Iraq to force regime change we did not deliberately target civilians to bring this about (though I'm quite certain that innocent civilians have died as a result of off-target munitions, target proximity and general hardship caused by these military actions). The fundamentalists on the other hand have, and continue to do so!

And you can be absolutely certain that they're right here, just biding their time, husbanding their strength and awaiting their opportunity... All thanks to successive corrupt, short-sighted, imbecile, quasi dictatorship governments.

Given the highlighted quote do you not feel that it is incumbent upon us to do more to clean up the mess than just deploy more armed forces to batter them into submission?

It's all very well daemonising Muslims and treating them all as if they're fundamentalist terrorists (which is demonstrably what both our government and our media are doing) but at some time we're going to have to talk to the moderate majority and resolve the problems we've caused.