I hear her point, but...

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri May 30, 2014 4:38 am

she did "everything right" on the day and did "nothing to agitate the cows".

BBC News - Cornwall cattle trampling victim calls for law change

did she?

For me her first mistake was to enter the field at all. Never would I enter a field with a dog if there were calves in the field. Maybe that is just basic knowledge of farm animals but it is just something you don't do. Even if you put the dog on the lead it's risky. I'd even draw the line at entering when the cows were heavily pregnant for fear of causing them distress.

I guess the answer maybe for the farmer to place signs near the paths to warn walkers of the dangers. But such signs are often ignored or vandalised.

I don't think the action this lady is seeking is at all workable either.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:05 am

If she knows about cattle she should have known better, if she doesn't know she shouldn't have assumed it safe.

Im a townie I wouldn't go into a field with cows without a dog, why would you need to anyway when there is a public path beside it?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:32 am

Bruv;1455890 wrote: If she knows about cattle she should have known better, if she doesn't know she shouldn't have assumed it safe.

Im a townie I wouldn't go into a field with cows without a dog, why would you need to anyway when there is a public path beside it?

A lot of the footpaths go through fields and its too costly to fence all such footpaths. Some farmers have tried running electric fences along these paths but the public constantly damage them.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:40 am

you're kidding? ..............nothing to do with any comments ............just the story .

you're kidding right? rural area and this woman ...........please tell me this is a joke.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 30, 2014 8:39 am

She wants a law to seperate cattle from their calves? Oh well, good luck with that one. If she gets even close, I personally would oppose It all the way.

This culture of attempting to lay blame for their own stupid actions Is rife. It's the same as that film director's son who killed six In the USA. Trying to blame the girl who rebuked him.

It Is common sense even to Townie's about herds of cattle. It's common sense that any group, any species can spook and take flight. It's common sense that any species will protect their young. It sounds to me as If she's looking for excuses for her own stupidity because to blame claves being with their Mothers Is just a desperate call to excuse herself.

I walk my dogs along part of the River Avon where once a year there are young Steer on the river bank. Those are the times, the dogs stay firmly leashed until we are a good distance away from them.

This sort of thing annoys the heck out of me. I am a dog owner and dog lover but I respect the fact that my dogs may frighten the cattle. She was reckless with no thought for another species. Now she wants the law changed for her stupidity ????

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri May 30, 2014 9:12 am

Oscar Farage;1455904 wrote: She wants a law to seperate cattle from their calves?

No!!! She wants cattle with calves in fields that do not have public footpaths across them.

I have got it now, the public right of way and the farmers right to pasture his animals, it is the perenial problem with no answer.

Depending on the size, landcape and layout, a cautious dog walker might not know cattle were in the field before getting halfway across it.

Out of interest would the farmer be allowed to pasture a dangerous bull in the same field ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 30, 2014 9:50 am

Bruv;1455913 wrote: No!!! She wants cattle with calves in fields that do not have public footpaths across them.

I have got it now, the public right of way and the farmers right to pasture his animals, it is the perenial problem with no answer.

Depending on the size, landcape and layout, a cautious dog walker might not know cattle were in the field before getting halfway across it.

Out of interest would the farmer be allowed to pasture a dangerous bull in the same field ? I grew up In the Sussex Downs..... surrounded by cattle and bulls. Even my shortcut to school saw us walking through fields of bulls. Myself, I have never encountered a dangerous bull. A slightly pissed off one yes but never dangerous.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri May 30, 2014 11:07 am

Oscar Farage;1455932 wrote: I grew up In the Sussex Downs..... surrounded by cattle and bulls. Even my shortcut to school saw us walking through fields of bulls. Myself, I have never encountered a dangerous bull. A slightly pissed off one yes but never dangerous.

I never had trouble with Bulls, but others have.

BBC News - Delabole couple trapped between 'aggressive bulls'

BBC has several reports of folks being attacked by cows, particularly in Cornwall area, it seems.

One year, when I was at Grandpa's house for the summer, I was treed by one of his cows when I tried to pet her new calf.

Grandpa had to come and rescue me.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 30, 2014 11:34 am

LarsMac;1455949 wrote: I never had trouble with Bulls, but others have.

BBC News - Delabole couple trapped between 'aggressive bulls'

BBC has several reports of folks being attacked by cows, particularly in Cornwall area, it seems.

One year, when I was at Grandpa's house for the summer, I was treed by one of his cows when I tried to pet her new calf.

Grandpa had to come and rescue me.

Tried to pet her new calf? That's where alarm bells should have rung. :wah:

I have found through experience that a wide berth Is the best bet especially when they have young. All the short cuts we took to school with the bulls In the fields, we were advised If the bull Is In the middle of the field, walk round the edge. If he's on the edge, walk on the other side. They will rarely make a bee line for you.... and keep dogs on leashes.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Fri May 30, 2014 12:05 pm

Betty Boop;1455889 wrote: I guess the answer maybe for the farmer to place signs near the paths to warn walkers of the dangers. But such signs are often ignored or vandalised.
The legal mistake is recognizing a right to possess vertebrates. No vertebrate animal should be a chattel. Ownership in this context should be a crime.

I have doubts about fields too.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri May 30, 2014 12:26 pm

Oscar Farage;1455953 wrote: Tried to pet her new calf? That's where alarm bells should have rung. :wah:

I have found through experience that a wide berth Is the best bet especially when they have young. All the short cuts we took to school with the bulls In the fields, we were advised If the bull Is In the middle of the field, walk round the edge. If he's on the edge, walk on the other side. They will rarely make a bee line for you.... and keep dogs on leashes.

Well, I was about five years old at the time.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri May 30, 2014 12:31 pm

TÃ½r;1455957 wrote: The legal mistake is recognizing a right to possess vertebrates. No vertebrate animal should be a chattel. Ownership in this context should be a crime.

I have doubts about fields too.

Legally, non-human vertebrates are still considered property in most countries, unless they are wild critters, in which case the bulk of legal work to date covers when, where, and with what one may hunt them down and kill them.

Sorry, but we are a ways from that world in which you dream.

TÃ½r · Post by **TÃ½r** » Fri May 30, 2014 2:55 pm

LarsMac;1455959 wrote: Sorry, but we are a ways from that world in which you dream.

That doesn't mean I'm wrong.

xkcd: Land Mammals

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri May 30, 2014 5:32 pm

TÃ½r;1455983 wrote: That doesn't mean I'm wrong.

xkcd: Land Mammals

Only about the "legal" part.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat May 31, 2014 7:08 am

cows with calves are more dangerous than bulls especially if you get between mother and calf. She does have a point in some ways, there are national footpaths that attract a lot of tourists to an area in some places they could make more effort to preserv the paths and and in some cases farmer go out their way to disrupt the enjoyment for wlkers and bikers others run bed and breakfast and farm tourists in other ways. As to rigts if way these go back generations we shoudn't have to force landowners to accept people have a right of access but we do.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat May 31, 2014 7:16 am

cows with calves are more dangerous than bulls especially if you get between mother and calf. She does have a point in some ways, there are national footpaths that attract a lot of tourists to an area in some places they could make more effort to preserve the paths and and in some cases landoners go out their way to disrupt the enjoyment for walkers and bikers others run bed and breakfast and farm tourists in other ways. As to rights if way these go back generations we shoudn't have to force landowners to accept people have a right of access but we do.

A cow is quite capable of killing a dog for that reason alone she should keep away from them any dog owner should know that, same with sheep I meet dog owners who don't seem to think their dog chasing sheep is a problem.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 31, 2014 9:09 am

gmc;1456032 wrote: cows with calves are more dangerous than bulls especially if you get between mother and calf. She does have a point in some ways, there are national footpaths that attract a lot of tourists to an area in some places they could make more effort to preserve the paths and and in some cases landoners go out their way to disrupt the enjoyment for walkers and bikers others run bed and breakfast and farm tourists in other ways. As to rights if way these go back generations we shoudn't have to force landowners to accept people have a right of access but we do.

A cow is quite capable of killing a dog for that reason alone she should keep away from them any dog owner should know that, same with sheep I meet dog owners who don't seem to think their dog chasing sheep is a problem.

You can say that again !!!

Thinking about It, you have a good point. Where I walk the dogs up part of the River Avon and once a year, they have young Steer In the fields, legally speaking, there Is a footpath running between the bank and the fields. So of course, people like me feel perfectly entitled to walk through.

Yet, I do believe still that It's common sense. I rarely see any dog walker with their dogs off the leash until they get way past the cattle.

I think In hindsight, Farmers could at least display signs stating that cattle are likely to spook.

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:23 pm

OMG!!! you NEVER NEVER take a dog into a pasture with cows, and it has nothing to do with them having calves either. A cow sees a dog as a threat and they will chase them, at least every cow I've ever seen will. I have had cows that I bottle fed from calves that you can walk up to and pet and the entire herd is bucket trained where all I have to do is walk out in the pasture with a bucket of feed and they will follow me anywhere no problems. But all of that goes out the window if there is a dog in the pasture.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:43 am

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that there's a difference between a Public Footpath & a Public Right Of Way. A Public Footpath is owned & maintained by the local authorities, whereas a Public Right Of Way can often go across private land & is at the user's own risk.

Public Right Of Way comes about when a route has been regularly used for a certain amount of time. If it ceases to be used for a set time, then it ceases to be a Right of Way, which is why there are certain campaign groups who will walk the paths for no other reason than to keep the Right of Way open, even if no-one else uses it.

I suspect that in this instance, rather than the specified 'Public Footpath' it was actually a 'Public Right of Way'.