I note a curious exchange at the end of a trial this week:Her solicitor, Alan Greaves, said Cunliffe had longstanding problems with psychotic depression and had been sectioned under the Mental Health Act 20 times.
As she was sentenced a family member shouted from the public gallery: "She doesn't know what's happening - she hasn't a clue." Another shouted: "This is a failure of medical services, judge."
BBC News - Laura Cunliffe jailed for microwaving pet kitten
I take issue with the heckler. If the defendant did in truth not know that microwaving a kitten was an illegal act, and a family member was aware that the defendant hadn't a clue, then the family member should have damned well stepped in and prevented the defendant from owning a kitten in the first place. Or, possibly, a microwave. Or, to err on the side of caution, both. This seems less a failure of medical services, more a failure of family intervention. Or is the kitten merely collateral damage?
A curious exchange
A curious exchange
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!
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A curious exchange
I absolutely agree with you 100 %
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A curious exchange
I don't entirely disagree..............but a 23 year old that has been sectioned 20 times hasn't had the best of treatment from the health care services.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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A curious exchange
Bruv;1450087 wrote: I don't entirely disagree..............but a 23 year old that has been sectioned 20 times hasn't had the best of treatment from the health care services.
Most people sectioned under the mental health act can not be detained longer than 72 hours unless they have committed a serious crime. To detain further, there has to be a court case where a judge will decide If the person Is a danger to the public or themselves. If she's been sectioned 20 times, what we don't know Is weather this was for crime, which I doubt, or weather her family have asked for her to be sectioned. If that's the case and she's deemed no danger then they can not hold her for longer than 72 hours I believe.
Most people sectioned under the mental health act can not be detained longer than 72 hours unless they have committed a serious crime. To detain further, there has to be a court case where a judge will decide If the person Is a danger to the public or themselves. If she's been sectioned 20 times, what we don't know Is weather this was for crime, which I doubt, or weather her family have asked for her to be sectioned. If that's the case and she's deemed no danger then they can not hold her for longer than 72 hours I believe.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A curious exchange
Týr;1450088 wrote: Once a year?
Since birth ?
Doubt it, which makes it worse really.
I would assume since at least her teens, so at least twice a year from 13 years old, which again is unlikely?
Probably been in and out over the past 5 or so years, scooped off the street by the Police put in a cell until Social Services were available then sectioned until somebody more at risk needed the secure units services.
Psychotic depression is an illness, you cannot blame somebody with a cold from sneezing.
Since birth ?
Doubt it, which makes it worse really.
I would assume since at least her teens, so at least twice a year from 13 years old, which again is unlikely?
Probably been in and out over the past 5 or so years, scooped off the street by the Police put in a cell until Social Services were available then sectioned until somebody more at risk needed the secure units services.
Psychotic depression is an illness, you cannot blame somebody with a cold from sneezing.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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A curious exchange
Bruv;1450093 wrote: Since birth ?
Doubt it, which makes it worse really.
I would assume since at least her teens, so at least twice a year from 13 years old, which again is unlikely?
Probably been in and out over the past 5 or so years, scooped off the street by the Police put in a cell until Social Services were available then sectioned until somebody more at risk needed the secure units services.
Psychotic depression is an illness, you cannot blame somebody with a cold from sneezing.
I just get the feeling that If she'd been sectioned for criminal activity, this would have been raised with her previous record In this court case for sentencing and her past would have reflected In that.
The law Is you can not detain someone for longer than 72 hours unless deemed by a court of law that they are a danger to themselves or the public. Sadly, that leaves the the health service with limited options when dealing with the mentally Ill's best Interests.
Doubt it, which makes it worse really.
I would assume since at least her teens, so at least twice a year from 13 years old, which again is unlikely?
Probably been in and out over the past 5 or so years, scooped off the street by the Police put in a cell until Social Services were available then sectioned until somebody more at risk needed the secure units services.
Psychotic depression is an illness, you cannot blame somebody with a cold from sneezing.
I just get the feeling that If she'd been sectioned for criminal activity, this would have been raised with her previous record In this court case for sentencing and her past would have reflected In that.
The law Is you can not detain someone for longer than 72 hours unless deemed by a court of law that they are a danger to themselves or the public. Sadly, that leaves the the health service with limited options when dealing with the mentally Ill's best Interests.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A curious exchange
If a patient is sectioned as an emergency case, then they are said to be detained under section 4 of the Mental Health Act.
This enables doctors to detain them for up to 72 hours.
If doctors believe that further assessment or treatment is necessary then the patient can be detained under section 2 of the Act.
This means that they can be admitted to hospital and detained for up to 28 days to undergo a full psychiatric assessment.
At the end of the 28-day period, if the medical recommendation is for the patient's stay in hospital to be extended, a further six months can be given under section 3 of the Act.
It is down to clinical judgement and bed space I guess.
A patient can be discharged from hospital at any time if doctors believe they are no longer a threat to themselves or anyone else.
This enables doctors to detain them for up to 72 hours.
If doctors believe that further assessment or treatment is necessary then the patient can be detained under section 2 of the Act.
This means that they can be admitted to hospital and detained for up to 28 days to undergo a full psychiatric assessment.
At the end of the 28-day period, if the medical recommendation is for the patient's stay in hospital to be extended, a further six months can be given under section 3 of the Act.
It is down to clinical judgement and bed space I guess.
A patient can be discharged from hospital at any time if doctors believe they are no longer a threat to themselves or anyone else.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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A curious exchange
Bruv;1450100 wrote: If a patient is sectioned as an emergency case, then they are said to be detained under section 4 of the Mental Health Act.
This enables doctors to detain them for up to 72 hours.
If doctors believe that further assessment or treatment is necessary then the patient can be detained under section 2 of the Act.
This means that they can be admitted to hospital and detained for up to 28 days to undergo a full psychiatric assessment.
At the end of the 28-day period, if the medical recommendation is for the patient's stay in hospital to be extended, a further six months can be given under section 3 of the Act.
It is down to clinical judgement and bed space I guess.
A patient can be discharged from hospital at any time if doctors believe they are no longer a threat to themselves or anyone else.
Clinical Judgement ????
So are you saying that anyone with mental health Issue's should be locked up for the rest of their lives based on someone's clinical judgement ?
Isn't that what some little geezer with a funny moustache did back In the 40's ?
This enables doctors to detain them for up to 72 hours.
If doctors believe that further assessment or treatment is necessary then the patient can be detained under section 2 of the Act.
This means that they can be admitted to hospital and detained for up to 28 days to undergo a full psychiatric assessment.
At the end of the 28-day period, if the medical recommendation is for the patient's stay in hospital to be extended, a further six months can be given under section 3 of the Act.
It is down to clinical judgement and bed space I guess.
A patient can be discharged from hospital at any time if doctors believe they are no longer a threat to themselves or anyone else.
Clinical Judgement ????
So are you saying that anyone with mental health Issue's should be locked up for the rest of their lives based on someone's clinical judgement ?
Isn't that what some little geezer with a funny moustache did back In the 40's ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A curious exchange
oscar;1450106 wrote: Clinical Judgement ????
So are you saying that anyone with mental health Issue's should be locked up for the rest of their lives based on someone's clinical judgement ?
Isn't that what some little geezer with a funny moustache did back In the 40's ?
What????
You are clinically judged every time you visit the GP.
No I am not saying people with any illness should be isolated or ostracised......................just that they should get adequate and timely treatment.
It might appear this 23 year old had less than that.
So are you saying that anyone with mental health Issue's should be locked up for the rest of their lives based on someone's clinical judgement ?
Isn't that what some little geezer with a funny moustache did back In the 40's ?
What????
You are clinically judged every time you visit the GP.
No I am not saying people with any illness should be isolated or ostracised......................just that they should get adequate and timely treatment.
It might appear this 23 year old had less than that.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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A curious exchange
Bruv;1450109 wrote: What????
You are clinically judged every time you visit the GP.
No I am not saying people with any illness should be isolated or ostracised......................just that they should get adequate and timely treatment.
It might appear this 23 year old had less than that.
We don't know all the facts here but It could be something such as Bi-Polar and she stops taking her meds each time leading her to be hospitalised again and again. That unfortunately, Is common.
You are clinically judged every time you visit the GP.
No I am not saying people with any illness should be isolated or ostracised......................just that they should get adequate and timely treatment.
It might appear this 23 year old had less than that.
We don't know all the facts here but It could be something such as Bi-Polar and she stops taking her meds each time leading her to be hospitalised again and again. That unfortunately, Is common.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A curious exchange
I'll go first. I've never been detained for longer than 72 hours.
Next?
oscar;1450097 wrote: The law Is you can not detain someone for longer than 72 hours unless deemed by a court of law that they are a danger to themselves or the public.
Perhaps you missed all the kerfuffle over terrorist legislation over the last 15 years.
Next?
oscar;1450097 wrote: The law Is you can not detain someone for longer than 72 hours unless deemed by a court of law that they are a danger to themselves or the public.
Perhaps you missed all the kerfuffle over terrorist legislation over the last 15 years.
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!
A curious exchange
Týr;1450115 wrote: Perhaps you missed all the kerfuffle over terrorist legislation over the last 15 years.
Mental Health Act...................Not anti terrorist law
Mental Health Act...................Not anti terrorist law
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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A curious exchange
Týr;1450115 wrote: I'll go first. I've never been detained for longer than 72 hours.
Next?
Perhaps you missed all the kerfuffle over terrorist legislation over the last 15 years. That's completely different.
If you are arrested per say, you can only be held for 24 hours without charge or you must be released.
If you are arrested under the Terrorism Act, you can be held for 14 days without charge,
If you are sectioned under the Mental Health Act, you can only be detained for 72 hours Initially before proposing section 2 or section 3
All Acts are different and do not apply to each other.
https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights ... in-custody
BBC NEWS | Health | Q&A: Mental health 'sectioning'
Next?
Perhaps you missed all the kerfuffle over terrorist legislation over the last 15 years. That's completely different.
If you are arrested per say, you can only be held for 24 hours without charge or you must be released.
If you are arrested under the Terrorism Act, you can be held for 14 days without charge,
If you are sectioned under the Mental Health Act, you can only be detained for 72 hours Initially before proposing section 2 or section 3
All Acts are different and do not apply to each other.
https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights ... in-custody
BBC NEWS | Health | Q&A: Mental health 'sectioning'
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A curious exchange
oscar;1450119 wrote: That's completely different.
If you are arrested per say, you can only be held for 24 hours without charge or you must be released.
If you are arrested under the Terrorism Act, you can be held for 14 days without charge,
If you are sectioned under the Mental Health Act, you can only be detained for 72 hours Initially before proposing section 2 or section 3
All Acts are different and do not apply to each other.
https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights ... in-custody
BBC NEWS | Health | Q&A: Mental health 'sectioning'
I have no doubt you're correct, though you need to qualify your first circumstance with "unless you've applied to a magistrate's court for an extension" and I did think it was actually, at the moment, four days. The 24 hour rule applies to being charged, not being detained. I was merely commenting on what I quoted, which was "The law Is you can not detain someone for longer than 72 hours unless deemed by a court of law that they are a danger to themselves or the public".
I'll go first. I've never been detained for longer than 72 hours.
Next?
If you are arrested per say, you can only be held for 24 hours without charge or you must be released.
If you are arrested under the Terrorism Act, you can be held for 14 days without charge,
If you are sectioned under the Mental Health Act, you can only be detained for 72 hours Initially before proposing section 2 or section 3
All Acts are different and do not apply to each other.
https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights ... in-custody
BBC NEWS | Health | Q&A: Mental health 'sectioning'
I have no doubt you're correct, though you need to qualify your first circumstance with "unless you've applied to a magistrate's court for an extension" and I did think it was actually, at the moment, four days. The 24 hour rule applies to being charged, not being detained. I was merely commenting on what I quoted, which was "The law Is you can not detain someone for longer than 72 hours unless deemed by a court of law that they are a danger to themselves or the public".
I'll go first. I've never been detained for longer than 72 hours.
Next?
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!
A curious exchange
Týr;1450121 wrote: I'll go first. I've never been detained for longer than 72 hours.
Next?
I'll go second.
I've never been detained.
What's the next cryptic clue?
Next?
I'll go second.
I've never been detained.
What's the next cryptic clue?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth