Let's look at similarities

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koan
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Let's look at similarities

Post by koan »

People spend so much time separating themselves as individuals and groups with individual beliefs and not enough time appreciating their similarities.

I have made a quest for myself to find all the similarities between religions and appreciate the universal truths that must exist. There is a Hermetic document called 'The Emerald Tablet' that is so simple and broad in its statements that it can embody such universal truths and enlighten people of all faiths.

Eg) As above, so below and As below, so above

both correspond in order to accomplish the One Thing

I really don't think what the name of your religion is should cause such strife and hatred and would be interested in hearing some ideas on how people have discovered that we are all in the same boat regardless of ethnic origin or faith.

:yh_yinyan
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

koan wrote: People spend so much time separating themselves as individuals and groups with individual beliefs and not enough time appreciating their similarities.

I have made a quest for myself to find all the similarities between religions and appreciate the universal truths that must exist. There is a Hermetic document called 'The Emerald Tablet' that is so simple and broad in its statements that it can embody such universal truths and enlighten people of all faiths.

Eg) As above, so below and As below, so above

both correspond in order to accomplish the One Thing

I really don't think what the name of your religion is should cause such strife and hatred and would be interested in hearing some ideas on how people have discovered that we are all in the same boat regardless of ethnic origin or faith.

:yh_yinyan


hmmmm Look at Northern Ireland
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

koan wrote: People spend so much time separating themselves as individuals and groups with individual beliefs and not enough time appreciating their similarities.

I have made a quest for myself to find all the similarities between religions and appreciate the universal truths that must exist. There is a Hermetic document called 'The Emerald Tablet' that is so simple and broad in its statements that it can embody such universal truths and enlighten people of all faiths.

Eg) As above, so below and As below, so above

both correspond in order to accomplish the One Thing

I really don't think what the name of your religion is should cause such strife and hatred and would be interested in hearing some ideas on how people have discovered that we are all in the same boat regardless of ethnic origin or faith.

:yh_yinyan "The Emerald Tablet", sounds like an Irish thing me ging :wah:
koan
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Post by koan »

It's an ancient Egyptian "thing" that predates all Christian religion and supposedly influenced the teachings of Christ. :wah:

Maybe the idea that we all laugh and we all cry and we all go through the same phases of development and struggle with the same life issues is a little too far out there? :-5
Ted
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Post by Ted »

kaon :-6

As a Christian Pluralist I think that you have set for yourself a wonderful goal. I will have more to say but it is getting late.

Shalom

Ted :-6
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

What's a Christsian Pluralist? :-5
koan
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Post by koan »

Ted wrote: kaon :-6

As a Christian Pluralist I think that you have set for yourself a wonderful goal. I will have more to say but it is getting late.

Shalom

Ted :-6


I looking forward to hearing more from you. I read your response under the "Word of God?" thread and hoped you would respond to this one. I haven't heard of Christian Pluralism before but I would think it is pretty self explanatory, Captain Buzzard.

I have tried to read a lot of Joseph Campbell's work. He links cultures together through similar mythology and archetypes. All cultures have heros and anti-heros. All cultures seek to explain that which they do not understand through fables and storytelling. I have also read more about how the bible was created than about what I should think it means. Have you read the Hiram Key? It was written by Freemasons in search of the origin of the order and describes the writing of the bible much as you did on the other thread.

If you have read it, what did you think of the 'facts' and conclusions they reached. I thought some were brilliant but some quite far stretched. An interesting jump and new theory, to me, was that there were two Christs. They say that the Jews voted to let not a thief but the other Christ free and sacrificed the one that was trying to be both 'pillars' in one body. The Essene religion required a priestly pillar and a kingly pillar. The Jesus refered to in most of the scripture, according to the authors, was attempting to unify both pillars in one body and it was revolutionary.

Aside from that, I am very interest in the objectives and unification of beliefs in Pluralism. Would love to hear more.

:-6
A Karenina
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Post by A Karenina »

Overcomer wrote: Christianity is the ONLY religion that isn't works-based.
Ahhhh...well, that certainly explains the appeal.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

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koan
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Post by koan »

Let me apologise in advance. Your statements, "overcomer", have a righteous finality to them that imply you are not open to other ideas. This may not be the case, hence the apology if you in fact do accept that you are of a human mind with human perceptions.

To say there is no such thing as a Christian Pluralist when, in fact, one of our members is a Christian Pluralist is rather silly. Whether you believe in him or not does not alter his existence.

In the same way, your choice to look at religions and see their differences is your choice and does not mean the similarities do not exist.

I think, on the surface, they look quite different. It is when you truly go in depth that you find the similarities. Looking in depth does not necessarily mean adding more information. If you were to think on only one word for a long time, the many meanings of that word may become apparent and depth would be acquired. If you keep adding more words, they hide behind each other and cause confusion, preventing depth.

Christians are, mostly, works based believers. Those who do not try to do good works by action are generally called hypocrates.

They all believe in an afterlife. See you just have to look.

They all came from the same core: Myth, and have created separation into different sects over time. The core books of the OT match many myths and legends of ancient cultures. The core beliefs of all religions I have studied invariably spring from myth. Read Joseph Campbell.

(It sounds to me like you worship Jesus over God as you believe that only Jesus can save you and God alone can not. I wonder if there is yet another sect of Christianity called "Jesusism". I wonder if I should believe in you? Would it cease your existence if I did? It would be rather silly of me to think so.)
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persephone
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Post by persephone »

They all came from the same core: Myth, and have created separation into different sects over time. The core books of the OT match many myths and legends of ancient cultures. The core beliefs of all religions I have studied invariably spring from myth.Sorry has to be said that many of the Myths were in actual fact already deity based religions, and many monotheistic religions have much the same holidays as the original ones, but they were given new names.
Bad Girls have very high standards, but they love you even if you sometimes fall short.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Koan, are you still on this quest?
xyz
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Post by xyz »

koan;9796 wrote: Let me apologise in advance. Your statements, "overcomer", have a righteous finality to them that imply you are not open to other ideas.
Maybe there really is a final truth, which can be apprehended by humanity. Maybe we all apprehend it, but we sometimes find it difficult to come to terms with.



To say there is no such thing as a Christian Pluralist when, in fact, one of our members is a Christian Pluralist is rather silly.
One can be mistaken in one's claim. One must inspect the arguments on either side before applying pejoratives.

In the same way, your choice to look at religions and see their differences is your choice and does not mean the similarities do not exist.
Of course similarities exist. The nub of the matter is, does it advance our thought and behaviour to contemplate them? Generally speaking, I don't think it does. Only in matters of civil unrest do they have an application, but in those cases, cerebral activity tends to have rather less effect than police action. Contemplating what we already have does not solve any problems. It is consideration of the differences that can advance our thought and behaviour.

Christians are, mostly, works based believers.
The whole point of Christianity is that works are totally useless, in terms of justification. That is why there had to be a Christ. To have a Christ and work for acceptance by God is like having a dog and barking.
Ted
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Post by Ted »

Koan:-6

I have not read Hiram.

Yes I am a Christian pluralist inspite of what Overcome says. We do exist.

I recommend a book by Karen Armstrong, "The Great Transformation". She shows in this book how all of the world's great religions are based on two tenets, justice and kindness or if you will compassion as per Micah 6:8.

Overcome has several errors in his/her post. One error is that they do not believe in God. The fact is they do but they refuse to name God or discuss God because they feel that this ultimate reality is beyond our understanding and thus to discuss or define God is to blaspheme.

Most faiths around the world are coming to the conclusion that God is beyond human understanding. The reality of God is beyond human language and conceptualization ability. What we see of God is His/Her Activity in the world. What we cannot see is God's essence.

When it comes down to it there is only one ultimate reality and if one is worshiping God they are worshiping that one ultimate reality though they may call Him/Her by different names.

An aside actually Jesus did not say "I am the way . . ." Those are the words John put into Jesus mouth. None of the words in John attributed to Jesus can actually be traced back to the historical Jesus.

There is such a thing as Jesusolatry. Nice word eh?

Shalom

Ted:-6
xyz
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Post by xyz »

Ted;858412 wrote: Most faiths around the world are coming to the conclusion that God is beyond human understanding.
It could be that the 'net has so much increased understanding of 'God with us' that the reaction may be mere denial.

An aside actually Jesus did not say "I am the way . . ." Those are the words John put into Jesus mouth. None of the words in John attributed to Jesus can actually be traced back to the historical Jesus.
Can it be proved that the historical Jesus did not say them?
Ted
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Post by Ted »

xyz:-6

If you want proof I would suggest you read one of those terrible scholars; "The Historical Jesus and Eastern Mediterranean Jewish Peasant", J. D. Crossan as one source.

Shalom

Ted:-6
xyz
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Post by xyz »

Ted;858518 wrote: xyz:-6

If you want proof I would suggest you read one of those terrible scholars
You may be a total liar, touting a tissue of lies. Can you prove that you are not?
Ted
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Post by Ted »

xyz:-6

Why am I not surprised? In logic one does not prove a negative. You want proof go to the book. There are of course dozens of other scholars you could read as well.

As for my being a liar I will leave that to others to judge.

Shalom

Ted:-6
xyz
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Post by xyz »

Ted;858521 wrote: xyz:-6

Why am I not surprised?
Prove that you are not surprised.

In logic one does not prove a negative.
Canard. False statement. One proves one's propositions.

Unless one is Stalin. Or 'Ted'. :)

As for my being a liar I will leave that to others to judge.
:lips:
Ted
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Post by Ted »

aw!

Shalom

Ted:-6
xyz
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Post by xyz »

Ted;858547 wrote: aw!
:yh_coffee
watermark
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Post by watermark »

This is a fruitful discussion already. My problem with finding common grounds with other religions is only in the details. The details of daily LIFE :-5.

Everyone in their own world wants what is best for their family (unless psychopathic ego takes over) and in order to achieve this ethics/religious views take on a power structure not unsimilar to how our universe is arranged. As it is above so it is below.

What we need to do to find the best course for all our human family, in contrast to segments that are represented by rediculous laws governed by antiquated doctrine, is to change the power structure of our worldly bodies thereby changing the stasis of what's above. As it is below so it is above.

That involves loosening our patterns of thought and accepting the position that all people are to be afforded the same opportunities in life. There could be some practical problems with this idea. :-3

I suppose it might be better to respond to individual posters regarding the points brought up. For example I could debate almost everyones post in some way, what about this or that, maybe the interpretation is wrong, perhaps in this culture men and women are seen as having a defined role, perhaps Jesus was a metaphorical road to God that really encompasses all spiritual paths to the source, that perhaps people are always needing something outside of them to remind them to be kind and generous to others (good works), but mostly my feeling is that the power structure needs to give way to something else entirely.

We need to realize that by allowing and encouraging everyone to have ample resources is good for ourselves and doesn't take away from what we have. A lot of times I feel that people fear that by someone else having what we have then we have less. Which is an old fear, but so not true! How can't everyone know this already!

There will always always yearning for God in the human soul and this hunger can be met in a different way then closing the door to loving each other regardless of faith.

Oh one thing that bugs me to death is the Christian notion of salvation. I mean come on, are we Christians so selfish that we sit around hoping and doing Godly living so we (me, myself and I and my blood relatives oh and those I marry or are related to through family) can someday go to heaven while everyone else rots in hell?? Just absolutely can't make sense of that one. Selfishness and power hungry human mentality-utter foolishness!

Erin
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Sorry, Koan. I feel like I found a long lost photo album and some putz came and spilled cheap beer on it.
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Mickiel
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Post by Mickiel »

Overcomer;9782 wrote: Pluralism is the belief that all religious roads lead to God. In truth, there is no such thing as a Christian pluralist. If a person is a pluralist he is not a Christian because a Christian knows that there is only one road to God and that is Jesus Christ. No one comes to the Father (God) except through the Son (Jesus).

While religions may look alike on the surface, when you study them in detail, you will find that they are fundamentally different and that all religious roads cannot possibly lead to God for the simple reason that they contradict each other.

Let's take the issue of what happens when we die and the various ideas about the afterlife. Jehovah Witnesses will tell you that only 144,000 people go to heaven. The others are annihilated and pass into nothingness.

Hindus believe that we are reincarnated over and over and over again until we finally get life right and reach Nirvana.

Muslims believe there is a paradise and speak of it with regard to men, but there is little said about what happens to women in the next life (except that there are virgins in paradise to service the men who get there).

There are, of course, many other religions, but I think that just looking at these shows how different they are with regard to the afterlife. And they cannot all be true. Since we all die, I think it behooves us to find out which is correct.

There are also differences about who God is. Mormons say he used to be a man who lived on another planet and became a god. He has a wife in heaven and many physically begotten children.

Hindus have over 300 million gods and, as Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias, puts it, they're adding new ones every day.

Some Buddhists don't even believe in a god. They simply follow a system of ethics and leave God right out of the picture.

Before ending this post, let me also add that all of the above religions offer a works-based salvation. In other words, people attain a happy afterlife based on whether he or she has performed enough good works.

For example, a Muslim has to pray every day, recite statements about Allah, give money to the poor, make a pilgrimmage to Mecca, fast, and hope that Allah deems him to have committed more good deeds than bad in life and that Allah will be in a good mood on the day that he dies so that he can enter paradise. The only sure way for a Muslim to get into heaven is to martyr himself while destroying an infidel (as a suicide bomber or by crashing planes into New York skyscrapers, for example).

Christianity is the ONLY religion that isn't works-based. The reason for that is this:

God is holy, pure, perfect, sin-free and, as such, cannot have sin in his presence in heaven. Man, of course, is not pure, perfect, sinless, etc. and there is no way that he can make himself any of these things. No matter how many good works he performs, he is still going to be a sinner and therefore not able to enter the presence of God in heaven.

For that reason, God sent Christ to take our sins and give us his righteousness. When I accepted Christ in faith, he gave me his righteousness to call my own thereby giving me the gift of salvation.

There is one other thing to note when differentiating Christianity from other religions. Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. are all belief systems. But Christianity isn't just a belief system. Christianity is a relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ through the in-fiilling of the Holy Spirit. No other religion is relationship-based. All other religions are about man trying to find God and reach him somewhere out there. Christianity is all about God coming to earth to reach us. Christianity is all about a personal relationship with God in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. No other religion can claim that because it doesn't offer that.

If anybody is interested in a good concise comparison of religions, it can be found here:

CARM - Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry




I know this may stun people but I disagree with this, I think no matter what road a human takes, their going to end up being with God anyway. No matter what religion, or if your Atheist; all roads will end up leading to God.

Just not the way we fabricate the road or religion; we are destined to live with God and no road can stop that or lead us away from that destiny.
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